Why the hell isn't there a Chaos God of Fear?
By - Contentious0
Sad and scared are not the same thing.
He’s the god of despair and fear too
The god of fear was my boy, the one and only: Konrad Curze, the Night Haunter.
Your interpretation of the chaos gods is not fully complete. They don’t existir due to one emotion taken to an extreme. They are a collection of emotions. Khorne is not just anger, it’s destruction, taking joy in the pain caused to others, it’s self annihilating, and a bit of self hate.
Nurgle as you said is sorrow (which weirdly should cover fear), but also a stubbornness, unwillingness to die or go away, constantly seeking a way to exist in hopeless situations.
Slaanesh is not joy, slaanesh is extreme emotions in general, a slaanesh worshiper doesn’t seek just pleasure or “joy” they seek extreme feeling, extreme pain, extreme sadness, extreme hatred. It’s indulgence.
Tzeentch i am not sure where hope comes from, they are about plotting planning scheming lying. Deception.
I think all chaos gods feed off most emotions including fear, but they are created from a complex set of goals and desires those emotions lead to
Nurgle *does* cover fear.
I figured lol, I mean I don’t think any of them are pigeon holed to one emotion, she who thirst also loves feeding on pain just differently than khorne does
Because the 4 require a degree of conscious engagement and transgressing against boundaries that fear just doesn't encourage.
As much as Khorne loves the warrior, he too loves the rage of the being who simply snaps and lashes out at the arbitrary restrictions placed on them without caring who they hurt. The house where a man murdered his own family is as much Khorne's domain as the battlefield.
Nurgle is simply feeling sorry for one's self, but the cloying desperation and willingness to do ***anything*** to undo that, regardless of the cost to others or even yourself. So many of Nurgle's greatest lieutenants and tallymen began their path with the simple desire to push through sorrow by going deeper, and eventually digging into the Warp itself.
Slaanesh encourages joy as the simplest lead into the excesses that truly lead one into her domain. He encourages xir followers to simply follow their hearts desire, heedless of cost and irrespective of social norms because how bad can it truly be when it feels this good? And before you know, in your pursuit of yet more pleasures and power to pursue them, you turn to the Warp for answers, and their Prince and all her handmaidens eagerly await.
Tzeentch is perhaps the cleanest example of all them, and it is little surprise that a Chaos god of hope exists to drive beings mad with it. Even more so than rage, regret or rejoicing the sheer tantalizing allure of hope will surely cloud even the greatest of minds. Hope for an escape from one's situation, hope that you will help those you hold dear, hope for a brighter tomorrow than today, all these can lead one to the temptations and strength embodied by arcane knowledge of the warp. And there the great bird sits amid his infinite librarium, waiting for his newest (or is it oldest, or is time irrelevant?) acolyte to bring down the walls of the materium and let all manner of horrors spring forth.
Fear does not engage these higher functions, it simply is. A being may well be petrified by their encounters with the Warp, scared of how far they have gone or how much they have changed but it won't be fear that motivates them to go deeper into the Warp's embrace (if anything quite the opposite). Fear itself, on it's own, simply isn't enough for a being to start explore the kind of atrocities needed to wear thin the veil between matter and emotion. As you point out, fear is common and it is petty. Remember that one of the greatest minor daemons we know was created by the first act of murder between humans. Murder is a funny thing, for it requires a lot more to setup than most assume. It requires a society where simply killing another human isn't accepted as a means to handle disputes, it requires a society to have laws that declare that a human killing a human is illegal and indeed it requires humans to have created laws at all. And then, most crucially, it requires a human to break them. To smash down that crucial yet ephemeral barrier between civilization and barbarity and kill their fellow man despite knowing that non violent solutions exist.
Fantastic write up.
I honestly never thought of Tzeentch as the Chaos God of Hope
I love this take on the relationships between chaos and emotion. It reminds me of a passage I'm fond of from the CSM 3rd edition codex, talking about the problem with the warp is that at it's base level it is a reflection of humanities (or other beings) flawed collective psyche. Your explanation goes further and does a great job explaining the individual side.
Not really. Nurgle includes fear.
The dark gods are made of the primal emotions of mortals. Fear absolutely features.
>a degree of conscious engagement and transgressing against boundaries that fear just doesn't encourage
When has anything of the sort been established as a necessary component to create a warp entity?
The Emperor canonically almost created a god of disbelief and Gork & Mork are twin gods made of pure "come at me bro" energy.
> Warp god of disbelief
Would love to see a source on that. Also, you do know that Malal is one of the handful of things that truly is not canon anymore right?
And it's not about creating a warp entity, its about making a warp entity that can come to you or you go to it (or both at once). It's about an entity that connects with and feeds on the kind of emotions that bring down the walls between reality and the Warp. Gork and Mork feed on the Orks desire for a good scrap that feeds into the Waagh! phenomena, latching onto the feedback loop of violence created by the greenskins.
>Also, you do know that Malal is one of the handful of things that truly is not canon anymore right?
I do, although considering I have yet to mention Malal at any point on any level I'm a little baffled as to why I'm being asked.
>It's about an entity that connects with and feeds on the kind of emotions that bring down the walls between reality and the Warp.
I can still recall snippets from Chaos Daemons codexes that explicitly cite fear as the impetus behind Warp Storms and daemonic incursions.
because it might be a deep warp god instead of one part of the pantheon since fear is much primal
Explain the cogent differences between primal fear and primal anger. I'll wait.
(The entire point of Chaos Gods is that they represent deep-seated primal emotions dude.)
A single cell can 'fear' harm but can never feel anger. Anger is complex enough to be out of the deep warp
Fear encompases the live of way more living beings than anger
Anger and fear are two very different emotions.
You don't need anger to feel fear, and you don't need fear to feel anger. But there can be fear caused by anger, and anger caused by fear. Just like you can have sorrow cause fear, and hope cause anger.
If you need this explained to you, I don't even know where to begin. Toddlers understand this difference.
> You don't need anger to feel fear, and you don't need fear to feel anger.
Aparently the fact that you are alive.
You **started** with condescension to folks dude. So take a hard look in that mirror.
Also, you can't functionally determine a 'depth' of emotion objectively by feelings and interpretations - and literal space magic. And if you were looking for the 'depth of emotional response', you should've clarified that in your original post instead of just 'EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE, I'LL WAIT'. So instead of being pithy and a dick, you could've explained your question further.
Do you always set yourself up to get knocked down?
If you really want to know which is more hardwired into neuroanatomy: we still don't know, and it shows up differently in different people in terms of fMRI intensity on a scan. Shocking as this is: people are different. We feel things different. Priority emotions for each of us is different.
So the bigger question is: what is the neuroanatomical average that the entirety of sapient life experiences on a galactic scale when it comes to readouts on a measurement of cortical response. Is the difference between those emotional responses of a large enough statistical significance to be considered scientifically worthy of a determination of correlation?
Figure that out and you'll get your answer.
Na he’s right, you are being a dick.
This is an open online forum, so if you didn't expect someone to reply to you, I think you're in the wrong place.
What you sound like you want is a TED talk, where folks just clap and agree with you.
I'm not trying to be anyone's white knight. I just don't like folks who ask for thoughts/ideas/help and then shit on folks when they get it.
Lastly, I wasn't shocked that you came back at me. I was expecting it, as most of your replies are on that level - even to people who didn't insult you first.
There was a 5th. Malice... think i got duped by the others and imprisoned... dont recall exactly
The only source for that is Malice and his cultists. And only in a single short story. If you recall, most demons present themselves or are presented as gods.
If you recall, the story ended with the marines in question actually summoning Malice or an avatar of him. Something you simply can’t do with a proper Chaos God, certainly not with only 11 not really all that special sacrifices. And said avatar lacked the reality fucking side effects of even powerful greater demons. And they’ve managed to accomplish fuck all, despite the sheer levels of FUCK an incarnate warp god would cause the galaxy merely by existing.
Basically: With the story presented it’s INCREDIBLY unlikely that Malice is actually a full blown warp god, far more likely just a demon(Likely undivided) who’s got an ego. Like Bel’Lakor. The only source saying he’s totally a god is himself, the evidence presented is not god tier, and the MASSIVE amounts of rewriting it would cause all 3 settings is just silly. Remember that 40k, Fantasy, and Sigmar all share the same warp.
Why even bother asking questions if you aren’t going to give a single response any real consideration?
Exactly in every response it has been "You're wrong" preceding a response of just being a dick about it.
This guy is just looking for people to start shit with
All of the chaos gods feed on fear in one way or another.
Isn't Nurgle already fear (of entropy, defeat, death, corruption, time...) incarnate? The one you accept to be free of it, like Batman did with the bats?
It's basically all that could result in something you perceive as bad for you, however laughtable.
Despair is his bailiwick rather than fear. Same book, but not the same chapter as it were.
Nope, Nurgle includes fear too. You can even take 'Icons of Fear' on Plague Marines.
Huh. Fair enough.
I was gonna give a good discussion and input thinking you legitimately wanna talk about this. Its a good topic and it even delves into the subjects of Lesser Chaos Gods and other warp entities.
However, seeing how every reply you have given in return fully fleshing out why a Chaos God of Fear is not there shows me all I need to know about discussing anything on this thread with you.
You have been nothing but rude and antagonistic with everyone here, simply BC no one is giving the predetermined answer you seek, so therefore I will just say.
Don't ask questions you aren't prepared to get the undesired answer for.
'I'm just popping in to tell you I don't wanna talk to you. And also lecture you about reddit propriety, because I'm that certain of my moral superiority.'
K. Thanks for sharing, as you were.
It’s ain’t about superiority, it’s being a willing participant that isn’t a dick.
Its not about superiority its about posting a message to warn the others coming in to not pay you any attention BC you think you are better than others and just want to start crap with people.
This sub is for discussion not b!tching and arguing with people, you want that go somewhere else.
Funny, I call you out on ur hostile tone and being a jerk to everyone and you respond with literally being a hostile jerk.
>Its not about superiority
Of course not. Nobody who stops to finger wag at strangers is the least bit self-important or narcissistic.
It's not like tedious moralizing is one of the hallmarks of a perfunctory & shallow person whose primary interest in life is the \*semblance\* of having actual principles (hence the desperate need to broadcast them).
The truly selfless (as everyone knows) shout with megaphones on the street corner, while the selfish and inconsiderate quietly toil in ignominy like the bastards they are.
I made a post to let others reading the thread know that no good discussion will come from this thread, BC you showed everyone you A. are the one with the actual superiority complex and B. are seeking some predetermined answer to you're question, and C. when you don't get that answer, you berate and attack others over it. .
Again I called out you on you're bull$h!t and you responded exactly as I knew you would. I'm not here waving a finger in you're face, I'm here telling others that you are a jerk and trying to start crap, so they know to ignore you.
Don't even throw that "ur the narcist" crap in my face. When you can't even accept the answers given to ur question are not those you wanted. Then proceed to act better than others and then proceed to try and act like the Mr. Know it all, by attacking them. As if you somehow you knew the answer all along.
I am not here to play moralist, I not here the establish some form superiority over another, BC unlike you I don't suffer from a form of insecurity in my life, where I need internet nobodies to feed my ego and to validate me.
Bye internet nobody,
Nurgle isn't sorrow, it's despair. When hope has faded, when you pass through fear, when you reach the limits of exhaustion, that is when Nurgle finds you and offers you relief. Relief from the crippling despair that comes from helplessness. Then Nurgle takes you and shows you acceptance, shows you the joy of embracing your gifts and sharing those gifts with others. From death, life, and the great cycle continues, just as Grandfather wills it.
>sorrow, it's despair
Literally synonymous terms. The differences are subtle at best. lol
No, it's not. They are perhaps related, but not synonymous. Despair is a complete lack of hope. Sorrow is feelings of distress.
>No, it's not.
Guess I gotta say it: look up "synonyms for sorrow" and then get back to me. If you've got a thesaurus you might not even have to type anything to settle the issue.
I'm out. Only here for the friendly hobby chat and I don't think you and I are going to be able to find a middle ground. Enjoy the rest of your day! :)
You: "It's not a synonym."
Me: "Easily settled with a thesaurus."
You: "This is getting way too heated, and this reads as an unresolvable issue. I'm out."
Nurgle includes fear.
Because the Emperor hasn't ascended yet.
Because you're wrong. lol
What If Big E is the chaos god of Hope?
thats thzeench, oh wait..