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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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No-Rub1544

"Doubtfully" This right here is you not listening to your childs interests She told you what she likes, you dont believe her, her dad, or your own sister Hopefully you believe countless people who think YTA and a huge Ah at that


Fianna9

I couldn’t believe that. She put tons of extra hours in and did really well in French- but mom still doesn’t believe she could have enjoyed it. Just because OP loves dance and hates languages doesn’t mean every teen girl is the same. Knowing more languages is certainly a more probably career path than pro dancing. ETA- thanks for the awards!


RighteousTablespoon

Not only that… OP, like, sneered at the idea of enjoying learning language. That word read like there was acid dripping out of it.


rexmanningday00

Do the math, looks like OP had her daughter when she was almost the same age daughter is now. Maybe somebody still has a bit of growing up to do and some acceptance of dreams that had to die lol.


Neither_Ad_9408

Also the user name screams dreams that haven't died.


progrethth

Haha, this is either fake or OP totally lacks any self reflection.


dvioletta

I hope it is fake but I know at least one person who instead of letting her daughter who is also a pretty good dancer but nothing amazing go to Uni to do the course she actually wants is making her do a gap year on a cruise liner as a Dancer. She is almost hoping her daughter changes her mind and takes up professional dancing instead full-time. It is very much a mother pushing her daughter to do something she was never able to do.


ruffled_heart

I loved dancing but it's a hard, competitive career with low pay and a short duration for most people - I wound up dropping out of my post-secondary training when I realized I'd probably only dance professionally for 10-15 years, earning poverty level wages and basically having to re-start my professional life from scratch in my mid-30s. That said, taking one year to use those skills to travel doesn't sound too awful. Hopefully that mother will be willing to let her daughter move on to other interests after that gap year.


IndependentOutside52

Oof i didn't even see the username initially. Yikes


Ecstatic_Long_3558

Daughter is more mature than OP. And have better knowledge of what will give her career opportunities.


throwaway_lifesucks_

Thank you for pointing that out, gave me a really good chuckle!


Suzen9

Oh geez. Dance mom.


ChickFromTheSticks

“I don’t want to talk anymore and called y sister to vent” makes me think she was literally pouting, lip and all


Due-Macaroon-1737

Yeah. If this is real, OP is… not smart. The daughter is and it’s easier for OP to dismiss it rather than acknowledge. I mean, why shouldn’ta 14yo know the term vicariously? Probably bc OP doesn’t know


Roostercalhoun87

I mean, she complains that her daughter will do just fine with just English yet OP has what seems to be a minimal grasp on the language herself. I just imagine the ex cheerleader that never grows up from every bad teen movie and forces their kid into those creepy pageants.


rosenengel

I would put a lot of money on OP having been a competitive dancer who was doing well and had opportunities to further her dancing (eg. go pro). Gets pregnant at 15, has to give up dancing. Forces her daughter to get into competitive dancing in order to achieve what OP never did. Wouldn't be surprised if OP secretly blames/resents her daughter for having to give up dancing in the first place.


Sleeping_Lizard

I was wondering if she somehow had her daughter at a negative age because she is acting like a child


LadyGreyIcedTea

And also acted like she had no idea that apparently in the real world "they're always looking for people who speak multiple languages" or that being multilingual would serve her better than dance. 🙄🙄🙄


Neither_Ad_9408

"She'll get by with English just fine" I think OP is the kind of person that yells at multilingual people to "speak English, this is America" Judgement: YTA, OP. A giant one and keep forcing your kid to do things in 4 years you may never hear from again.


Sid-ina

Holy hell, she gives off major "you don't need education if you just look pretty" vibes... Second and third languages are a huge thing for finding jobs. It almost physically hurt reading that post


jethrine

Hell, she’ll probably yell that if her husband gets stationed somewhere overseas! “Speak English! This is Germany!”


Homicidal__GoldFish

My brother and his best friend were stationed in Germany... His best friend told me a story of a Karen he actually ran into who said something like that once lol. Said "if your gonna work in a store that sometimes get tourists, you need to learn English!"


iWasTheCupCat

This was exactly my thought as well. I'm in awe that a military spouse who could potentially live abroad because of her husband's work thinks this way! Being multilingual is such a skill, and should be nurtured especially if she's enjoying it! My biological father (who hasn't been in my life since I was an infant) was fluent in like 7+ languages, and I've always felt a bit of frustration towards my family for not encouraging me to learn when I was younger, or being supportive when I *did* take lessons in high school and college. (I was homeschooled through high school and had to seek out my own lessons) OP, as someone who's been in similar shoes to your daughter (have been in dance from childhood, past college, and was dancing 6 hrs a day 6 days a week in college), please don't be this parent. And ffs open your eyes to the opportunities being multilingual will open up for your daughter. It sounds like she'd be happier (not to mention healthier, as dance takes a TOLL on the body) learning languages, and sets her up to be successful later on in life, even beyond the age that she'd have to retire as a dancer. So yes, YTA for being so incredibly closed minded, and I have to agree with your daughter that you're just living vicariously through her. (which btw I knew that word at her age as well, OMG shocker, right?) stop being selfish, and learn to support her dreams.


etherealellie

That's EXACTLY the feeling I got reading that part. Gross


bartpieters

Who cares about language skills, I always hire ballet dancers: 'Lily the French delegation is coming, could you please do a grand plié?' oh /s in case it wasn't obvious.


FuzzyPurpleFrog

And the bit where she scoffed at the idea a 14 year old would know and use the phrase "living vicariously." Like a kid who is interested in studying languages isn't going to have a fairly expansive vocabulary.


RighteousTablespoon

That kid at age 10 probably googled “wtf is wrong with my mom” and picked it up


regus0307

I think all dance kids will know that phrase, because there are a lot of mums like that. Source: former dance mum. My daughter chose at 14 to give up dance, and I respected her wishes because it's HER life.


etherealellie

It shouldn't even be a thing that needs appreciating but THANK YOU. Growing up I had to watch someone I care about injure herself in dance, not get the foot surgery she needed, and develop an eating disorder because her mom wanted to live out her dreams through her child. It's so disturbing


goshyarnit

Gymnastics mum here. She's now begging to start tap as well, she plays hockey in the winter and she plays basketball in the summer. RIP my weekends 😂 but she loves all of it so much, I'm sure I'll be devastated when she hangs up her sparkly little leotards for the last time, but who forces their kids into something just because they enjoyed it? I was a Tae Kwon Do, field hockey and soccer kid. My husband was a Kung Fu, soccer and figure skating kid. Our kid hates soccer, hated the intro/try-it-out martial arts classes and is afraid of skates. She's her own person, not some weird extension of us and our hopes and dreams. I barely ever know wtf is going on at gymnastics. I just cheer my heart out and take her wherever she's going and learned her stretches. Some of the other mums act like every regional meet is the bloody Olympics.


SnooSquirrels2736

This reeks of the kind of person who thinks intellectual pursuits are a waste of time. Do you also give your daughter wedgies and sneer “nerd” when you pass her in the hallway, Op?


Classroom_Visual

Yep - mum sounds very insecure about having an intelligent child. YTA.


Brilliant-Appeal-180

And on top of all that, grounded her for it!!!


Askew-glasses

Dance is a short, short career if a career at all, but languages can open so many doors, especially becoming proficient enough to translate fluidly. Someone's living her Dance Moms fantasy and it shows.


SeonaidMacSaicais

If OP told the truth about her age, she was probably 16 when Lili was born. Sounds like she never really grew up.


Sleeping_Lizard

I love foreign languages, this post, particularly "she doesn’t need to know other languages, she’ll get by with English just fine" made me feel very sad


Altruistic_Stuff_385

And grounded her


FantasticDecisions

I always loved languages. Guess what? That's my career.


pencilneckco

Not to mention the career of a "pro dancer" will be over long before the time she's 30.


Fianna9

And depending on the discipline she could perform in Europe- it would help to have the languages if she changed her mind. But my older sister quit dance and turned down taking French in school. Guess which she regretted and taught herself as an adult!


Luprand

The Charleston!


capyber

As compared to an interpreter who can work well into their 90s. Had one yesterday who was 96 and his English to Spanish to English was flawless.


Neurotic_Bakeder

Yep, professional dance is brutal. Some huge percentage of ballerinas have to get double hip replacements, eating disorders are super common, chronic injuries *hurt*, and there's always some hot 16 year old on the scene the minute you turn 22.


pencilneckco

Yep. Briefly went out with a former pro ballerina in her mid twenties with chronic lower body injuries. Throw in "care" from the Larry Nassars of the world and you've got a recipe for some bonus trauma.


Andalaine

If, she doesn't pull a ligament or have any accidents at all in the next 10 years yeah usually 30 max.


sweetsundays

Literally could not read past the “I put a lot of money in so my child must do it”. What an awful parent


Minkiemink

I was a dancer all through childhood and into my teens. I also love languages. I am working on my 9th language right now. You can make a shit ton of money as a professional translator. You can't make jack-all as a dancer. Just as her kid said, mom is living vicariously through her poor daughter and doesn't listen to anybody who tells her exactly that. What an AH.


No_Appearance3307

OP literally sounds jealous af because she knows her daughter is going to go further in life.


Downtown_Evidence_46

YTA Yep, it was that "doubtfully" that immediately threw you into the Ahole category. If you really want to push her, I'm sure you will eventually see some very pretty dancing... on the TV in the Community Room of the nursing home your daughter will stick you the first chance she gets. Will you enjoy it? Doubtfully.


Peachbowtie

I agree! She seems to think her daughter can only enjoy the same things *she* enjoys. OP, YTA!


SaintPatty317

If I had an award to give!! 😂


teariest_elm

I got it. That "doubtful" comment got me too.


LadyGreyIcedTea

The fact that OP thinks it's doubtful that her daughter enjoyed studying French really pissed me off. I LOVED Spanish in high school and it has served me well both in my nursing career and in my extensive travels throughout Latin America.


No-Rub1544

I feel the same way, I loved learning languages, even now as an adult. Would happily take a language class over dance in high school and now


entomologurl

I enjoyed both language and dance, but I started dance because I wanted to, and I competed because I wanted to. I started Spanish immersion in 1st grade and was in through 5th grade, took Spanish 8th-13th (first year college), Latin 8th-10th and did very well in competition for it (also because I wanted to/enjoyed it), Russian in 12th, and studied Irish Gaelic, Portuguese, and ASL on my own. Spanish opened the door. Growing up, I wanted to eventually go into linguistics and/or be an interpreter and/or international speech therapist. (I wanted to do a lot of things, but this was a big one.) I can't dance anymore because my knees are bad, and the rest of my body is meh. But guess what, I still speak Spanish and enjoy the fuck out of it. I used it in every job I had, (and at the restaurants I worked I even got a lot of free food because of the novelty of being a tiny little white girl who speaks it fluently), and it's helped out in breaking language barriers in other areas. And being bi/multilingual looks EXCELLENT on just about any resume. It's an incredibly important skill and can often get you a higher wage/salary. (Oh yeah and my Russian teacher? A Ukrainian who actually was the Turkish-language teacher; so minimum she spoke four languages fluently. Most Europeans are at least bilingual if not tri- or more.) Not to mention the major advantage in traveling. (I haven't been anywhere, but) I know plenty of people who have gone out of the country and have a significantly more enjoyable time with being able to speak the language where they go. OP, you are sooo the AH and I seriously hope you're trolling. Forcing your kid away from their passion and trying to control what they do and enjoy is a fantastic way to guarantee a future no contact lifestyle. Hope you're prepared for that!


drkphnx02

I’m actually jealous of folks who are so interested in foreign languages, and have the aptitude for them. I took 3 years of high school French. All I got was headaches and C-‘s.


Felidaeh_

Absolutely this. YTA, OP. Just because she's good at something doesn't mean she enjoys it. Who are you to force her??


ohno_spaghetti_o

And that dismissal by OP of her daughters teal interests is why her daughter never felt comfortable telling OP she hasn't enjoyed dance in a long time. Because OP wouldn't care and would still make her do it when she would rather follow her own passions for languages and culture.


mortuarybarbue

Agreed and when her daughter said she's living vicariously through her and OP grounded her. She totally is.


mysteriousbrightness

Not only this, but OP seems to be missing the fact that people who are polyglots and work with languages make *a lot* of money because not that many people are good at it. Her daughter is uniquely talented and loves that talent, but somehow she’s supposed to give it up for competitive dance? I was in competitive dance too. It was great. Then I turned 21, didn’t want to dance on cruise ships, and now I just have bad knees and a completely different career that would make me a lot more money if I only knew French. OP, YTA.


Elfich47

YTA Your daughter told you the truth: she doesn’t want to do dance anymore. Listen to what she is saying. You are dug into the sunk cost fallacy. You have a choice: stop now, or waste another four years in classes that she doesn’t want to take. Because either way she isn’t going to make a career out of dance. You can stop spending money on dance now or waste another four years of dance money on it. If you make her continue dance, the only result is that she burns her ballet shoes when she turns 18 and then goes to college for languages. And she hates you for the next four years because you are making her waste her time doing something she will grow to loathe. Stop making this about you, make it about her. And she doesn’t want to dance.


czechtheboxes

>She accused me of living vicariously through her Based on the ages in the post, OP had her daughter at 16 and OP's dancing dreams got derailed by having a child. I am also willing to bet the pressure and focus OP puts on her daughter and dance are 1000x worse than what's in this post. If she couldn't be a dancer, then the daughter she blames for killing her dream will fulfill it instead.


Nylo_Debaser

It’s amazing that OP has a daughter who has a passion for languages and then can’t believe that same daughter might know what the word vicariously means. Says a lot about what OP was like at that same age.


Easy-Concentrate2636

Right after that, Op misspelled grounded. Poetic justice.


blucougar57

And apparently can’t remember her husband’s gender. I’m questioning if this post is even genuine. But if it is - OP, YTA. Stop living vicariously through your daughter. Because she’s right, that’s exactly what you’re doing.


TheMoneyOfArt

A lot of posts here make the most sense if you read them as though the author is trying to communicate a character's backstory entirely through intimation. You could imagine a writing assignment where you have to 1) provoke people into making a judgement and 2) get them to understand details that are only hinted at


Elfich47

The ages were staring me right in the face and I missed it. I expect she was the high-school hottie and lived on the "Everyone giving her attention" high and once she got pregnant she was immediately back burnered.


Palindromer101

The biggest thing that stood out to me is that OP said her daughter was scared to come to her and tell her she didn't like dancing anymore. OP needs to learn how to harbor a safe space for her child to be honest and upfront with her. It's honestly probably too late, but if OP really opens her eyes and recognizes that things need to turn around, maybe she can salvage that safe space.


Ktene-More

And her Mom lived right up to that expectation!


PrettyRefrigerator83

Agreed. What really stood or to me though was when she told her husband that she didn't want to talk to him and called her sister to vent about her husband and daughter. Just because her husband didn't agree with her.... Something about her telling him that she doesn't want to talk to him and her reason being that he sided with her daughter, just doesn't sit right with me. YTA OP


rhet17

This makes sense bc it seems evident OP is lacking an education. Who doesn't realize speaking 3 languages fluently would serve one better in life than *competitive dance*? Why does she doubt her daughter's word that she enjoyed studying French? Is this her usual behaviour to settle arguments with her husband by saying "she doesn't want to talk to him anymore"? Emotionally undeveloped as well,OP is an AH and needs to do some work on herself desperately.


AikoG84

She doesn't believe the daughter enjoys studying languages because she didn't. OP also comes off as a bit of a xenophobe by staying English is all she'll ever need. I currently work a job that involves interacting with chinese factories. I wish I knew the language. It would be easier to get shit done. The simple fact is that the internet is closing international gaps and languages are more important than ever.


etds3

Right? What motive does this kid have to LIE about enjoying languages. Precisely because it’s not the most fascinating thing for most kids it makes her professed enjoyment of it completely believable.


SickSigmaBlackBelt

I fucking loved learning languages. I took French in 8th grade and when I went to high school I signed up to continue taking French and to start German. A week before school started, and my counselor called to say I wasn't allowed to take more than one language. Why? "Because it's too much for most kids." I had a 100% average in French. Languages come to me very easily. I let them talk me out of it and I don't even remember what elective I took instead. The next year they started Mandarin as a course and I signed up for it. They were desperate for numbers to keep it as a legitimate class, so they didn't kick me out that time. I had a 100% in Mandarin and 98% in French. The only reason I graduated is because my GPA was saved by my language skills. I barely scraped by in math and science and had trouble doing my homework in every course except for languages. So basically, yeah, this happens somewhat frequently where a teenage says they love something and the self-obsessed adults in their life think it can't be true.


phoenix-corn

>Who doesn't realize speaking 3 languages fluently would serve one better in life than > >competitive dance > >? 1. Racists who think English is superior. 2. Misogynists (including women) who think that the only way to get ahead in life is to be hot/attractive (implied in dance circles since you have to be super thin and somewhat pretty to be successful) So yes, uneducated, but also... ugh.


MaddyKet

Also narcissists who are mad they didn’t get to keep dancing bc they got pregnant which is not at all the fault of the kid. YTA


Ktene-More

She has her daughter tell her, her husband. And her sister and she still doesn't believe them!


rhet17

But will go to millions of strangers who don't know her or have her family's best interests at heart? See this is why I said she seems to have a deficit in her educational background. Not seeing a critical thinking process here. Another redditor thought I was being rather harsh. *Harsh* is forcing a kid to stay in competition dance when they want to study languages.


anappleaday_2022

I did competitive dance as a teenager and absolutely loved it (danced since I was 2.5). It was my joy, my favorite hobby. It's a great way to stay fit too. But it isn't for everyone, just like any other hobby. And yeah, if you aren't planning on a career in dance, it's pretty useless beyond being a checkmark on your list of extra curriculars. I _wish_ I loved studying _any_ subject as much as I loved dance. OPs daughter sounds really smart and has her head screwed on straight and OP is being a total YTA


RexJacobus

And by the way, vicarious in Spanish is 'vicario'. So maybe she is just good at languages.


yankiigurl

I wanted to go to college for japanese language and asian studies. my mom said what are you going to do with that? There's no jobs. I didn't go. Now here I am living in Japan speaking the language poorly watching my friends make hella money as translators :/


Treacherous_Wendy

Guaranteed she has pictures of herself from her “glory days” in dance/cheer hanging up around their house


Dear-Ambition-273

I just want everyone to watch Center Stage tonight!!! Maureen would have been fine if they would have just let her quit in high school. She would be a board certified whatever specialty and would have an uncomplicated relationship with food.


Hot-Trash-6764

Omg yes. Her story is so sad. In the end, her mom still wouldn't admit she was sick.


PsychoSemantics

"you watch your weight, there's nothing wrong with that" - definitely her worst moment as a parent.


KarenMaca

ikr, but there was that bright hope in the end, when we saw Maureen holding books at school, smiling and talking to friends.


spinsternonsense

"You didn't have the feet. I don't have the heart."


YuzuAllDay

Thrilled to find this reference here. A true masterpiece of a movie


NemesisOfZod

The ages were the first thing I noticed. OP is so desperate to see her daughter succeed in her place that she's going to push her until she breaks, then blame her for weakness.


LadyGreyIcedTea

I completely missed that OP is 30 without a 14 year old daughter. Of course she's trying to live vicariously through her since her own adolescence ended when she became a mother. Her daughter is her own person though and she needs to let it go.


TheWanderingMedic

Three things in life are absolutely guaranteed: Death, taxes, and crazy dance moms.


Sureokayiguess1

Oh yes! My son got into dance because a friend of my wife’s had a son and she wanted him to be a dancer but didn’t want him to be the only boy and she was a dance mom from the day that boy was born. Fast forward six years and that boy hated every second of dance and wants nothing to do with the culture so they have another baby to try and get a dancer but end up with another boy who hates dance.


whyyougottaknow_man

Shit, the fact she calls herself "Primaballerina" was enough to convince me.


Antique-Box-8490

Holy shit! And in 1992! That is so sad and pathetic. It’s time to move on from the ‘glory days’ and step into reality for the sake of you child, OP.


KathrynTheGreat

She was born in 1992, so this post is really all about her. This poor woman was a prima ballerina, but had a baby at 16 and couldn't dance anymore. She's absolutely trying to relive her dancing days through her daughter, and it's honestly really pathetic. She needs to find something else to focus her life around, and let her daughter do what *she* loves to do! I feel so bad for her daughter, but I'm glad that her dad and aunt have her back.


Hangingoutwithyou

Oh wow! I missed that too. Yikes! I already made my judgement though that OP is an AH but this adds some concern about whether she blames her daughter.


Ditovontease

giving me Center Stage vibes


puppylove17blue

YTA If I were OPs daughter, I would deliberately half ass it and lose to get kicked out, or just not show up to practices nor practice and pursue what "I" want since it's my life, not OPs, and stop sharing what's going on in my life, since OP won't be interested in it anyway...


Substantial-Pie1758

OP would be lucky if that happened. If she is unlucky, the daughter will start misbehaving to get detention/suspensions, and possibly even expulsion/juvie.


Aquamarine_SS

YTA Funny how you describe your daughter's attitude by saying: >Of course, as teenagers do, she threw a fit and run to her room but when it's you throwing a tantrum: >I told him I did’t want to talk to him anymore and called my sister to vent you feel legitimized. It's your daughter's life, if she doesn't enjoy dancing, she shouldn't be forced to do it! You should support her in her decisions even if she didn't have a new hobby, but especially when she wants to spend her time studying and already knows that that is what she wants for her future. And yes, knowing several languages opens the door to many job opportunities!


Apple_Shampoo1234

I did competitive dance as a child/teen/early twenties. I also studied 3 languages. I found the time to do all of those, so bare minimum, OP should allow her daughter to study both languages. However seeing as daughter doesn’t want to dance? Full on YTA vibes. Guess which skill I utilize as an adult? (Hint: it’s not doing Fuettes en pointe). As an adult, my knees are f*cked from dance and I have a job using my language skills.


ignitedwolf9200

Yep yep. She will grow to loathe her mom AND dancing. OP needs a reality check. How would OP like it if we forced her to do a random, dumb sport she fucking hated? Can guarantee OP wouldn’t like it.


nermalbair

Four years? Maybe. But more than likely to just remain hating her mom for several more years and going NC when she reaches college.


Encartrus

I mean, 100% she is correct here. You are forcing her into your childhood dreams rather than letting her be her own person. She want's to do something not dance, you are being a total asshole to your daughter and forcing her to want to do something she seems to hate. What's more, what she wants to do will easily improve her life by making her way more employable in the long run. In the US northeast French is needed for all sorts of business with Quebec. Spanish is needed all over the US due to massive amounts of business with literally every one of our neighboring countries and a growing population in the US. She sounds very intelligent, her knowing words like vicariously is a great thing. Why are you minimizing that? You should be fostering her intelligence rather than throwing this temper tantrum about a hobby that only you care about in this circumstance. If you miss competitive dance so much, you should find a way to do it as an adult. Not foist it on your daughter like this. YTA, grow up. You're supposed to be the adult here, not your daughter.


[deleted]

Agreed, and if we look at OP's daughter's age, this is right at the time when it can become dangerous for young girls to do competitive dance. Girls at that age in competitive dance are much more susceptible to EDs. Of course, this does not mean OP's daughter does have one, but I'm willing to bet she notices that pressure to look and be a certain way. OP, your daughter is right here, and you need to respect her wishes. She wants to learn languages and that is clear. You even said "doubtful" in parenthesis which makes me think you do not want to believe her. On top of that, your daughter was scared of telling you she does not want to dance anymore for this EXACT reason. And yeah, knowing more languages makes your daughter a better candidate for jobs and more likely to be hired. If she wants to go into languages, colleges (uni for the non-Americans) in America look at interest over time, and with your daughter taking those classes it could be good on college applications. YTA OP and you need to apologize right now.


bayleebugs

And the opposite of your age point is that its much easier for kids to learn language than adults. This is a skill she can grow forever, and will be much easier for her if she starts now. It's also easier to learn a new language when you are already bilingual. She's setting herself up for great success starting now, while dance will be a virtually useless skill. Especially since she's been doing it for years and years and will always, at some level, be able to dance well.


[deleted]

Agreed. With dance you have a career until you are 30, 35 if you are very lucky. You also cannot get injured even in the slightest. Job security is poor and people in the industry will try to take advantage of you. Going into a career surrounding language is a much safer and better choice.


bayleebugs

With the added bonus that it makes her *happy*. It's wild that that isn't the most important aspect to her mother. Just that she wants her to do and be like she once was. And where did that leave mom? Where's her amazing dance career that she is seeking out for her daughter? It's entirely selfish not to let her take the language classes.


Little-0-Flower

I have a feeling that lots of dance girls feel like their moms are living vicariously through them. It may go around their circles.


calliatom

I mean, at least where I am a lot of those girls are right. Like, there's whole schools around here where most of the students for years have been from the same handful of families, each generation trying to make sure that their kid is the one that "makes it big".


taybay462

thats depressing as hell. it bothers me on a deep level when parents try to live vicariously through their kids. its so fucking selfish


BabyCowGT

The only "vicarious living" that's acceptable is reliving things like "getting excited to see Mickey Mouse for the first time" or "first time you see a cool tree" or "found a cool rock". Cause let's be honest, Disney world as an adult isn't the same as Disney world as a kid the very first time. And trees aren't as fun at 35 as 5. And rocks are just rocks after a while.


phoenix-corn

On the plus side, Disney as an adult was much nicer without anybody farting in my face. I went there when I was right about face level with butts and it was miserable, lol.


Lipstick_On

I think this is actually the case when you consider OP put in her personal experience of how time consuming dance was, and the fact that she was probably barely a year older than her daughter is now when she got pregnant and had to raise a child instead of pursue her own dreams.


yajanga

Dance and pageant moms are the worst.


yellowduckdude

Also can we talk about the comment of spending too much money on it already. How is forcing her to do it for longer (thus spending more money) going to make the money spent worth it?


TassieBorn

Sunk cost fallacy. Allowing daughter to quit requires OP to admit that the money spent on turning her into something she doesn't want to be was wasted. (Not necessarily true mind you, if daughter was previously enjoying it.)


StopDehumanizing

Spending money on it when she's not enjoying it, when she's going to sit in the corner and refuse to participate, now THAT is a waste of money.


soooomanycats

And, like, what's the end goal here? I'm not one who believes every pursuit needs to be something that ultimately makes money, but that's because I know that people do spendy things for the joy of it all the time. But if the daughter hates it *and* it costs a ton of money, then I don't really understand the point. OP would be better off just taking dance lessons of her own instead of sinking her money into something that may end up making her daughter hate her.


Plastic-Artichoke590

Shockerrr another American who thinks English is the only language 🤦🏻‍♀️ I say this as an American who remains so disappointed in the language education I got as a kid.


LottaBuds

It's never too late - I'm in late 20s, speak 9 languages to varying degrees (5 fluently), I started half of them after school. Heck, even my grandparents in their 70s go to a little evening language class once a week so they have an easier time travelling.


Elfich47

and someone made the observation to my comment: OP is 30, her daughter is 14, so she got pregnant at 16. I bet it completely derailed her dancing. So living through her daughter is spot on.


MurdochsMom

This!!! And on top of that, dance permanently changes and damages your body. If it’s not her dream, it’s def YTA for even for just that alone.


AlasAntigone

Yup, one of the original Dance Moms girls now has chronic pain and a permanent back injury from competitive dance as a kid. Quitting when she did (14) preserved her physical mobility. OP, YTA, let her live her life. ETA: Brooke Hyland


MurdochsMom

I spent 14 years of my life as a ballerina. It was my life and who I was. I had to stop after a devastating diagnosis, as ballet was causing symptoms to be much much worse. I chose that life for myself, and can’t regret it, I still miss it… but forcing that on someone who doesn’t have a passion for it is abuse and cruel.


AlasAntigone

I agree with you, and I’m sorry for your pain and sacrifice. I’m sure you were a beautiful dancer.


MurdochsMom

Thank you 💗


Ok-Commercial-4015

I did ballet for 15 years and love it to this day, BUT!!! And this is a big but, I was fully aware of and currently dealing with massive daily pain in joints and bones that I broke. Dance is an art and a passion not a career (for this young girl) and she shouldn't be forced to destroy her body because "mommy knows best" and because her mother doesn't know when to let go of somethings.


Curious-Drag6871

I came here to say this⬆️⬆️ YTA and stop living through your child.


Chasingfire80

Is this just me or does this OP sound 14 and her daughter sounds 30? The roles sound reversed. The mom definitely is missing maturity and common sense.


Feral_Feminine3811

That’s what happens. I have an awful adult child mother. Makes you grow up REAL FAST lol


IHateCamping

Yes, everyone is right. YTA, OP. Don't you realize forcing her to do dance is going to make her hate it and resent you for forcing her to continue? She enjoys studying languages, I can't image why any parent would discourage that. It will help her way more in the long run than dancing ever would, especially if she loves languages and doesn't enjoy dance. I really don't understand your reasoning here... at all.


doomdoggie

**You Are The Asshole.** ​ Your daughter doesn't want to be a competitive dancer, she wants to learn languages. Dancing is incredibly competitive and that skill is only good for that job, languages are useful for a variety of jobs - and very sought-after. ​ Your daughter should be able to choose the hobbies she wants and the education she wants. You're making this about you and what you did/didn't do. Your daughter will resent you if you restrict her education/hobbies because of what you want. I hope her father overrules you, cause he seems to care about what SHE wants more than you do.


bbbright

Also even if the daughter does make it as a professional dancer, like other athletes, her career won’t last forever. So it’s good to have a backup career plan that doesn’t hinge on never getting a serious injury. But she doesn’t want to dance anymore! It really sounds like OP is living vicariously through her daughter. Lay off and let her learn a skill that will create a lot of opportunity for her in the future.


Locurilla

OMG what killed me was the daughter saying she had so much fun learning french and she wrote “doubtful” . come on! as an adult you should know that just cause you wouldn’t enjoy something that doesn’t mean others won’t


EggoStack

I agree with you fully, though you should edit to add YTA so your judgement counts towards the verdict because I don't think it'll count otherwise.


justmaybemaggie

Question that I’ve been wondering for a while: Does one’s verdict count if it’s in a reply/down thread or only if it’s in a standalone comment?


annedroiid

Only the top rated first level comment will have it’s vote counted. So most comments don’t do anything, but a comment in a thread definitely won’t.


tatersprout

So 2 people already told you that you’re wrong and you’re seeking people to agree with you. Stop living your personal dreams through your daughter. What is your end goal for her? Something you couldn’t achieve. She already told you she doesn’t want to continue dance. Time and money. Your unfulfilled dreams. All on your daughter’s back. Do you know what normal parents do when their child decides they don’t enjoy a sport anymore? They allow them to quit and focus on something they love. Your daughter is going to resent you forever. YTA


chooklyn5

That's my absolute favourite thing about this post. My daughter told me no, I went to husband, he said I was wrong, so I went to my sister, she said I was wrong. So I'm coming to the internet because obviously they're all wrong and I'm right, back me up random internet strangers.


prove____it

OP is the only person who matters in her universe. All of us apparently just live in it to serve her needs. She shows no empathy at all. We don't know enough about her to make a ruling but this is how narcissists act. YTA


chooklyn5

The fact she hasn't commented on anything I think shows she's not listening because clearly we're all wrong here.


Coffee-Historian-11

Someone should comment something like: “NTA! Okay OP now that you’re listening, let me explain why you’re TA in this story.”


StopDehumanizing

3 people. Her daughter is absolutely correct here, too.


nermalbair

Yes and notice Op grounded the daughter and said she doesn't want to talk to her husband. I mean seriously.


pencilneckco

Her maturation apparently ended the day she got pregnant.


Hob-Nob1974

YTA. "I did competitive dance...no time to study languages " You found time to get pregnant at 16. Stop trying to live through your daughter, let her do her languages and grow up.


waveslikemoses

>You found time to get pregnant at 16 r/murderedbywords


Any-Bit-2461

This needs to be the top comment


life_saver

The truth OP needed to hear! You're the asshole OP! Go apologize to your daughter before you do more damage to your relationship with her!


katwoodruff

Snigger - good catch!


PlanetEarthIsBlue13

Right? It’s shocking her 14 year old knows the meaning of the word “vicariously” but not that she had her daughter when she was only two years older than her? Also, I’ve known what vicariously meant since I was in middle school. Is it not a common word?


Shirochan404

Ouch, came here to find the comments like This


pineapple1347

Omg you murdered her lol


Usrname52

Yta You got pregnant as a teenager and are upset that you weren't able to do everything you wanted. So you are expecting your kid to. What do you think the benefits of dance are vs the benefits of language, later in life?


Ok-Asparagus-4809

I’m very curious if OP has ever worked a job? It’s pretty common knowledge how knowing multiple languages give you an advantage in any workplace. Also assuming knowing just English is enough is a very American attitude.


butt_butt_butt_butt_

No, no. That attitude is all wrong. If OPs kid ever visits France or Quebec or anywhere else where French is spoken, she can communicate with them…. #…**THROUGH DANCE** # 💃


not_cinderella

I always greet new people with a traditional square dance. Don’t you?


[deleted]

YTA. You're forcing her to do a hobby that she doesn't want to do. If you don't let her quit she will hate you.


MarionberryIll228

OP is my definition of a nightmare parent! That comment about Languages riled me up too.


AzureFlare4

YTA. My parents *crushed* me with pressure to live up to all these standards and it’s taken years for us to repair our relationship to me even wanting to visit them. Don’t make the same mistakes they did. You can still change the direction you’re going. Is it really worth making her miserable and resent you? Is that the kind of bond you want?


SDstartingOut

YTA. Stop trying to live through your daugther. > she accused me of living vicariously through her (when the hell did a 14 year old learn that phrase though) I mean, she's 14. I'm pretty sure I learned the phrase as a teenager also.


itisdecerto

Yes but OP was spending all her time doing competitive dance and becoming a teen mom... so she must have missed some vocab lessons.


Careful-Bumblebee-10

This woman is such an AH about her daughter. Doubts her honesty when she says she enjoyed learning French, mystified that her daughter knows an extremely common phrase, demanding she continues competitive dance when the kid says she doesn't want to anymore. She has ZERO respect for this girl.


sweetpeabby

YTA.


Beauty_n_the_book

Periodt.


Mundane-Solution5657

If this is real YTA. Is your child not allowed to have different interests than you. You may have loved dancing, but she obviously loves languages. Let her do what she wants.


randomly-what

This is exactly how my parents treated me, but with sports instead of dance. I was constantly ridiculed because I was smart and wanted to learn new things and my mom thought that was “stupid”. (She’s an idiot). I completely believe this is real.


mm172

YTA. This feels like rage bait. And I sincerely hope it is, because if you haven’t already figured out you’re the asshole from *literally everyone else* in your life telling you that you are, I’m not sure how this is going to help. But what the hell, I’m bored, so… > she hasn’t been enjoying dance for a while and was too scared to tell me Gee, I wonder why. > she’s too good at it Not sure what difference that makes when she’s telling you loud and clear this isn’t how she’s going to be spending her life as soon as she actually gets a say in how to live it. Although if deliberately tanking is the only way to set herself free, I guess at least she’s got a strategy now. > I already put in a lot of money Well, maybe you should’ve considered that kids are prone to changing their minds about hobbies before you did that. Especially ones they didn’t actually decide on themselves. > she doesn’t need to know other languages, she’ll get by with English just fine She doesn’t need *dance* to get through life, does she? At least *try* and keep your logic consistent. > when the hell did a 14 year old learn that phrase though Like she keeps telling you, she’s got an aptitude for language. You really shouldn’t keep giving her opportunities to hone her vocabulary.


Foreign_Astronaut

>This feels like rage bait. It certainly ticks all the boxes, doesn't it.


arm2610

YTA. You’re using your daughter to relive your own past glories, and you’re also being very obtuse if you think dance is a more valuable skill than being multilingual. Speaking a second language can open up a ton of valuable job opportunities for her. You need to listen to your husband and sister on this one and take a step back.


Kitsumekat

YTA You are so the asshole. What happens if your daughter can no longer dance? Are you going to value her less? Are you going to look down on her? It sounds like she doesn't want to do this anymore thanks to you. I wouldn't be surprised if she finds a way to have a life beyond you.


dragonsfriend-9271

YTA (1) She is not your clone or your re-do. She is an individual with *her own different* talents. (2) The number of competitive dancers who make a good enough living that they are continuously employed and don't have to take 2nd jobs, is so much less than the number of linguists who can choose from a number of careers (translator, interpreter, proof-reader, etc etc ) in a variety of fields (law, medicine, social services, politics, finance, research, etc etc) (3) this is a control issue on your part - whether or not you realise it - this is about you not being in control. Talk to a counsellor/therapist about *your* issues. (4) Are you such a selfish mother that you want to cut off her life opportunities and set up resentment from your daughter because she *doesn't want what you want*?


Jobeytown

Holy shit, you’re totally TA. Speaking multiple languages is an amazing skill and will give your daughter opportunities beyond what most people get. No adult person benefits from dance classes unless they’re a professional dancer. Obviously, your daughter doesn’t want to do that, so she should be free to pursue other things. I’m shocked you would shame her for wanting to learn multiple languages. She’s obviously intelligent, motivated, and hard working. But you’d rather she fulfill your dream of dancing. Way to go, you’ve just told your daughter that being pretty and girly is more important than being smart.


Ok_Cauliflower_3007

Judging by the amount of errors in the post the OP isn’t great at the one language she has, no wonder she doesn’t understand someone might enjoy studying others. Speaking multiple languages is a huge advantage in the job market, especially in a country like the US where a lot of people are monolingual. And Spanish would be the one most likely to be useful in the US given the size of the Hispanic population and how many Spanish speaking countries there are in the Americas. Plenty of people enjoy learning languages and I have no clue why the OP thinks her daughter would have spent so much time on something she didn’t enjoy and would then go on to lie about it to her mother. But what do I know - I took three different languages in school, carried one of them on to university, and then learnt Medieval Latin on top of it. YTA OP. Dance can be incredibly damaging to the body and why put someone through that if they don’t enjoy it? Newsflash, your daughter is a completely separate person to you with her own likes and dislikes.


BeJane759

“Judging by the amount of errors in the post the OP isn’t great at the one language she has, no wonder she doesn’t understand someone might enjoy studying others.” 😂😂😂😂😂


tinny36

YTA - you should be thrilled she wants to learn languages, how do you NOT think it's useful? She can do international work and so many doors open ...'getting by with English' doesn't sound like you want to nuture her future growth and development much. How 'far' will she get as a dancer? She's 14 shouldn't you listen to her? Not like she wants to sit on a couch and play video games instead. Comp dance is super expensive, exhausting and demanding. It's HER life, not yours.


Helpful_Welcome9741

YTA ETA, I think we have our Asshole of the Day award winner.


p0tat0p0tat0

Have you seen the dad who expects his 11 yo daughter to have as much household responsibility as his ex-wife did?


-siris99

... ... Yep, read that correctly. Didn't think I had, but I did. And I'm all the worse off for knowing it exists. Time to go find it. Edited to add: yep, should've listened to myself.


p0tat0p0tat0

He just complained about not knowing how to cook, like his pre-teen daughter would be better equipped.


Fantastic_Concept353

YTA, your daughter has expressed to you that she does not want to dance anymore. She doesn't enjoy it. Why waste your money on something that she isn't getting anything out of. I don't care how talented she is, she could be the next Ginger Rodgers, but Rodgers ENJOYED dance. Even if you think the extra language is a waste, let her explore. That's part of your job as a parent. If she comes back to you and says she misses dance, let her pick up dance again. She has told you her choice, I say respect that.


Southernpalegirl

I really hope that this is a troll post. YTA, you are making her teenage years about you, not her. If she doesn’t want to dance she shouldn’t have to, period. And if she enjoys learning languages then encourage her instead of holding her back with your narrow minded idea of what she can and cannot enjoy. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to make her live your idea of youth instead of letting her be herself. She’s going to grow up and cut you out of her life at this rate. So much the AH even though you aren’t listening to the people around you saying that.


matt_h2o

YTA. ‘She’ll get by with English’ - what a narrow view of the world.


catladyblair

#YTA She doesn’t want to do competitive dance anymore. Why should she continue? Are you going to force her to continue in college and eventually to get a career in it too? Daughters right. You *ARE* living vicariously through her. Husband is also right. Learning languages will be more useful for her than competitive dance.


BaconEggAndCheeseSPK

Absolutely sounds like you’re living vicariously through her. You got pregnant at 16 and gave birth so you didn’t get to live the teenage years you planned so how you’re forcing your daughter to live the life you wish you could have. Also, “vicarious” is not advanced vocabulary for a high school kid. YTA x10000.


humelectro

>she doesn’t need to know other languages, she’ll get by with English just fine. ​ How to spot an American


holly1231

Wtf? YTA. If she likes languages let her learn languages. If you want to be practical about it, knowing multiple languages is great for landing jobs, not competitive dance. Just let your daughter follow HER dreams, and don’t try to live out your dance nostalgia through your kid. Just take dance classes for yourself if you want.


VoyagerVII

YTA. You have a child who's eager to study and you care more about keeping them in a sport they don't even want to do anymore?!? Many parents would kill to be in your shoes and have a child who's eager to study two languages even if it means giving up an extracurricular activity. Extracurriculars are supposed to be for fun. If it's not fun for the kid, and it's interfering with stuff they DO want to do, that would be enough reason for her to quit. But this is worse than that, because it's not just interfering with stuff that would be more fun for her, it's interfering with her studying for the work she wants to do as an adult. You're making it harder for her to seek the future she wants, just because you like having her in the same sport you used to do in the present. This is bad parenting. Stop it and let her quit dance and have her languages.


FireMoon42

YTA this sounds like some shitty american movie plot


PlentyPicklez

YTA. Kid wants to be a polyglot, not a dancer. Respect her interests instead of saying shitty things like it's "doubtful" this is fun for her.


BeJane759

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’re a person with no life who gets weird pleasure out of making up random lies on the internet and NOT that you’re really this sh***y of a mom. But either way, YTA.


uninitiatedastronaut

Huge YTA. It's not just about the language class. You said that competitive dance takes away from study time in general. This isn't about having her live out your dreams; she has to start prioritizing for the real world. She doesn't like it, that should be enough.


Kirin2013

Yeah, YTA. She wants to learn languages and she doesn't want to do dance anymore. It doesn't matter if she is good at it, she DOESN'T WANT TO DO IT. Plus, learning different languages is far more secure of a future than competitive dance. Just because you did dance, doesn't mean she should have to.


hazelnuddy

YTA So you want her to do dance....why? Because you enjoyed it? Your daughter is leaning towards other interests and these interests will actually help her in the future. All kinds of high paying companies look for multi-lingual talent! Sure, you invested money and time and effort into the hobby. But it's her hobby and she doesn't want to do it anymore. Let it go. You're only going to make her miserable by pushing this.


sexualmagpie

Jesus christ wtf is wrong with you? Genuinely. What is wrong with you? How can you not see that you're wrong? Your husband and sister both say so. Are the judgements of a bunch of random strangers on the internet going to change your opinion or were you hoping to find an echo chamber? You ARE living vicariously through your teenager. YOU enjoyed dance, she doesn't. The fact she was too scared to tell you says everything and you need to take a step back an reevaluate your parenting. Your daughter is right. Knowing more than 1 language fluently will be supremely useful for her future. It looks good to colleges and it looks good to employers. She's being very forward thinking, YOU are being deliberately obtuse by refusing to acknowledge that. I was in many extracurriculars when I was young, my parents encouraged it. We had to finish the season if we started but if we didn't want to continue after the first year they wouldn't make us. And they never did. Your daughter said she's done with dance. She doesn't enjoy it like you did and would rather pursue other things, which you SHOULD ENCOURAGE. If my mother had forced me into dance because she'd liked it as a child and then refused to let me quit because she'd enjoyed it and the other thing i want to try isnt as useful in her mind, I would have had the same reaction your teenager had. Telling her she has no choice but to do competitive dance and that her interests aren't important to you isn't going to make her want to do competitive dance and in fact she'll probably stop putting any real effort into it in the hopes you'll stop trying to live through her. You had your time to do and enjoy competitive dance. She had hers. Its time to let her pursue her interests as the budding human being she is.


DarlingGem

YTA. Why are you forcing her to life your childhood dream? She doesn’t want it. You are absolutely trying to live vicariously through her. She called it right there! She’s just told you she wants a career in languages. As a parent, why are you actively trying to stop this from happening instead of supporting her own dreams? I don’t see how you can justify it. Her father supports her, why aren’t you?


GreeneyedSigma

YTA. Your child doesn’t want to dance anymore. She doesn’t enjoy it. She enjoys learning languages, and she is more than old enough to start deciding on things she wants to do. If you aren’t living vicariously through her, her stopping shouldn’t be an issue.


fine_Ill_get_reddit

YTA Being able to speak multiple languages is infinitely more useful in life than dancing. But more importantly, She is not You. She gets to decide what her hobbies are. not you. If dance was so important to you, you should have danced instead of being a parent but that's the choice you made so deal with it. Seriously, Are you stupid or a troll because holy shit this reads like an overly exaggerated character for a shitty TV show created purely for the viewers to hate.