T O P

Thank you SHG, with this title, you alienated the MnK players to such a degree to the point of pushing most of my MnK friends into deciding permanently going to either HC or refunding the game.

Thank you SHG, with this title, you alienated the MnK players to such a degree to the point of pushing most of my MnK friends into deciding permanently going to either HC or refunding the game.

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Ul1m4

Exactly, thank you for the comment. As i said before, i simply propose to regress the AA to the level that existed during the Mw19. I feel that time we had kinda the sweetspot in my opinion. At least i didn't have to see my friends feeling completely overpowered by controllers like it is happening since CW, me included... I still think we can all exist in harmony by finding the sweet spot of AA.


Anonymousthrow20

To be honest, they simply need to stop tweaking the AA every year. it's entirely incentivized for monetary purposes. It's one of those things, people have to speak up with their wallets and push back against the big wigs behind the scenes that are forcing devs to change the shit.


Ul1m4

For sure, unfortunately, even if i and a couple of my friends quit the franchise, it's going to be irrelevant to the majority of the player base. Most of the console and controller players will keep buying this and nothing will obviously change. I will wait for the release to see what will happen but i have no expectations of any of my concerns to be relevant for the devs. It was a long run for sure... i thought i could give this Cod a chance after i didn't buy CW but i guess it's another game of the series i will not buy again unfortunately.


Quaz5045

Shows why when on KBM you never win those fights where you run past each other and both have to turn around. That rotation assist locks on


chy23190

Yh I've noticed i won those fights way more when I use to play on controller. The complaints about this type of aim assist are justified tbh.


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IKEA-SalesRep

So FOV makes up for having this? https://twitter.com/endersfps/status/1438751055249031168?s=21 And consoles are getting FOV sliders on launch, which means you’ll have the best of both worlds now.


chy23190

Honestly fov slider is probably the most braindead argument I've witnessed ever in the history of the mnk vs controller debate. Like yh, putting fov up is going to cut someone's reaction time down needed in close range engagements like rotational aim assist does lol I use mnk mainly now as I play other games mostly, but used to use controller. I go into cod knowing theres aim assist and i have dealt with in mw without complaining at all. But in this game its something else. Controller players get so defensive about it without trying to understand it needs tuning.


laziestsloth1

I don't know what this video is but I am honestly suspecting that is not aim assist that is aim bot lol. I play on controller and that level of drag/stickiness is not normal at all.


IKEA-SalesRep

If you look at one of my replies further down, I posted like 4 links of similar things happening. Is it normal? No, but it does happen. And I don’t think the AA should be powerful enough to ever pull something like this off, even if it’s a 1/100 scenario


laziestsloth1

Like I said, this video is 99.9% aimbot. Feel free to replicate it or look up a Jgod video on aim assist. With that being said, I do agree aim assist is too strong in some areas. Particularly the rotational aim assist you get in CQC is ridiculous, for medium/long range gunfights its not as crazy as this video suggests, hence I think its aimbot.


IKEA-SalesRep

https://twitter.com/metaaphor/status/1434731297835003905?s=21 https://twitter.com/birkdegard/status/1429074765801734144?s=21 https://twitter.com/nooniefps/status/1400768180289556483?s=21 https://twitter.com/jgodyt/status/1427427946952675328?s=21


laziestsloth1

Ok


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IKEA-SalesRep

LMAO, it’s not sped up old man, maybe you need better eyes lol. Unless you’re confusing the 120 FOV for him *actually* moving faster when it’s purely visual. “Obviously manipulated”, Bro, it’s a fucking clip from someone’s stream. That’s it. It’s not edited.


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IKEA-SalesRep

Nope, it’s a controller user. https://twitter.com/metaaphor/status/1434731297835003905?s=21 https://twitter.com/birkdegard/status/1429074765801734144?s=21 https://twitter.com/nooniefps/status/1400768180289556483?s=21 https://twitter.com/jgodyt/status/1427427946952675328?s=21 Just because you’ve never had it happen to yourself, doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Of course, you’ll claim any clip I sent you is edited, or is cheating, because nobody wants to believe the truth. That maybe aim assist has gotten a wee bit out of hand. But apparently the truth is a bit too much for some people


HeyImBudo

Damn that JGod Clip lmao. Holy shit


Ul1m4

Oh, i didn't mean "rollers" to become a derrogatory term for controller users, it's just that it's quicker to write it, that's all. But like other users indicated in this post, you will have access to a higher fov, don't worry.


derboehsevincent

I call them toddlers - people who play 1st person shooter with controller while having a way better working alternative in reach can't be named otherwise - except they are so bad that they need the aimbot (AA is a dumbed aimbot technically) to even play the game. Stop whining about about FOV - You have 2y old middle class pc they call PS5, the console fraction believes that 59fps is unplayble and starts a giant shitstorm if a game does not run 60fps constantly. so that is what you get. A garanty for stable fps for the price of graphics settings.


zucine

You get better movement with analog sticks than keyboard.


Price-x-Field

that’s just simply not true. it’s not an argument you can make, it’s just a simple fact. if what your saying was true then the pros would do it


zucine

You make 0 sense. Almost every pro is on controller you can count on 1 hand the amount of notable cod players that use a mouse and keyboard. That’s how broken controller is on COD.


Price-x-Field

i thought you were speaking in general


zucine

Oh yeah I have no clue about the balance of mkb vs controller on other games.


ThechroniclesofMEEP

What? You can individually move in any direction with each finger whereas I have one thumb to move. You then can swipe as fast as you want to look around the map and everything with your other arm* whereas I have one thumb, that is also used for my killstreaks, reloads, weapon swaps, tactical throws, and melee. So no. Stop lying to yourself and others.


zucine

As I said before that’s why every notable and professional cod player plays on controller and you can count the amount of notable mkb players on one hand. Controller is broken on COD due to rotational aim assist. Movement is superior on controller and so are close range guns fights (which is all cod mp is).


M4GIX

I see a lot of comments about disabling crossplay if you don't like AA. You still get AA on controller on PC, I would rather have an option to disable cross input.


Gohanspecker

With it cross play PC multiplayer is always dead though


IKEA-SalesRep

I mean, this is settled science. Controller with aim assist is superior. https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21 And that’s a pro player (on controller )saying that. And I bet if you asked any other pros, they’d say a similar thing. Also look at the controller cope in this thread lmao. Tell them the truth and they go ballistic lol. These people hate PC players so much haha, it’s so weird lol. I mean, they’re probably 12, but the sad part is there’s gotta be some 30 year olds making these comments


Ul1m4

Hey, thanks for the comments and adding that link. That's actually nice to see some controller pro players understanding this controversial issue. I hope some of the controller players watching that video will understand slightly better what i'm trying to convey in this post.


chy23190

Yh and Snipedown isn't some random new pro, he's someone whos pretty much a veteran controller pro, mans 30 or something now. If it affects the highest level against professional mnk players with insane mechanical skill, it's definitely going to affect the average mnk players who have poor mouse control.


Gohanspecker

It’s settled science if every shooter didn’t work better on Mouse and keyboard. Mouse and keyboard is always better, it’s why everyone says FPS games are better on PC and has been saying that since Doom. I remember being a kid and hearing how much better Halo was on PC because mouse and keyboard beats controller any day. It’s been like that for decades, and a clip of the game breaking doesn’t really change that.


IKEA-SalesRep

Edit: TL/DR I do agree that mechanically, a Mouse feels better, but practically, in real world applications, aim assist wins Yes, in a world without aim assist, and for PvE shooters, MnK is generally better. However, for multiplayer shooters depending on levels of aim assist, that is not the case when considering 1 on 1 aim duels. Aim assist is superior at tracking at close to mid range, and is capable of 0ms delay micro adjustments, something a human literally cannot do. Here is a 0.5 KD player showing that off: https://twitter.com/metaaphor/status/1434731297835003905?s=21 Notice how long it takes for him to react, and also notice his aim assist starts moving before he starts shooting. It’s literally faster than his brain. That type of tracking is what matters in aim duels. Not flicking, or target switches, or any other MnK movement. The ability to track and land shots is the number one most important factor and skill. And controller is better at it. MnK isn’t “always” better, that’s a very naive and black and white way to look at it. Again, it’s settled, and sorry, but I’m gonna take the word of a pro who make $100K on controller, and others I know with 10K hours of MnK FPS experience, vs you, some random. Not to be rude, but, players 10 times better than you or I, on both inputs agree that controller wins.


Gohanspecker

That clip looked fine? Any competent player would have won in that situation and it barely flicked. And take their word for it, I don’t care. I don’t win a gold star because someone on the internet believes me on a issue surrounding a COD game


IKEA-SalesRep

What exactly is fine about someone, who’s so bad their aim assist reacts before they do, pulling off god tier tracking like that? Like, imagine a 0.5 KD player on mouse, he would 100% miss that dude and die. That 0.5 KD player pulled off 100% accuracy on a fast moving target, mostly due to aim assist. He only missed when the target went down and his AA stopped tracking. It literally follows him perfectly with 0 delay, have you ever seen someone on MnK track before? When the target changes directions, there’s a delay. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. It’s a settled matter, and realistically, from now on CoD on PC is a controller game. Kinda sucks if you’re on MnK, but it won’t get changed, so, nothing I can do about it.


cantFeelmehLegs

It's a misconception that controller needs aim assist. If people didnt have their sensitivity set to uncontrollable levels keeping your aim on target wouldn't be an issue. This is how better players on BO3 were still able to hit snipes even though they had no AA. Que Infinite Warfare and the snipers were infesting every lobby because AA was back. They need a mode without it at least. Perhaps hardcore.


McBonkyTron

Your technically not wrong. Rainbow Six Siege has no aim assist. However if it’s K&M vs Controller then it should exist.


Ul1m4

And i completely agree with you, just not to this degree. Proper amount of human interaction is still needed in order to have a balanced competitive environment, otherwise, we will soon have aimbot levels of AA. And right now, this is already unhealthy for everyone.


McBonkyTron

Yep Fortnite aim assist (before it was patched) is the only time I can say that aim assist went too far.


Ul1m4

I see, i'm not knowledgable about that game because i don't follow anything related to that one or OW. I believe you on that though.


McBonkyTron

To put it simply, ADSing near the target used to put your aim directly on the target. It even did this through smoke grenades.


sintaroactual

> To put it simply, ADSing near the target used to put your aim directly on the target. This is snap aim-assist and that is untrue, and has never been in CoD MP, only Campaign. You only get slowdown *near* a target but do not ever get snapped to a target.


McBonkyTron

I was talking about pre patch Fortnite.


sintaroactual

Whoops!


878choppa

Rainbow six is not a good example when the game is at a snails pace and you just have to hold angles the whole time. But when you have ppl sprinting across your screen slide canceling you it would be impossible with no aim assist. Also when you reach a high Elo in siege on console everyone is using a keyboard anyway


McBonkyTron

I’m not making the claim that CoD doesn’t need aim assist. I’m making the claim that people are still capable of aiming and shooting without aim assist.


juniorspank

Or they could support gyro aiming, that’d be helpful.


cantFeelmehLegs

Yes, or this


Ul1m4

That's actually quite interesting, hmmm... i wonder if more controller players would consider trying that out.


juniorspank

I know I would love it if more games supported gyro controls.


Ul1m4

I understand your point but we need to consider the new players that are coming into this genre and those need a decent learning curve, otherwise they will leave. That is why i said that having access to slow down AA is perfectly fine and acceptable and maybe some level of rotation aim assist... but this game is just going too far. What i proposed was simply a tuning to the level of strength of the rotation aim assist, i think it would lessen the automation we see in this game from roller players. That input still needs a level of human interaction that right now seems to be way too automated for everyone involved, other rollers included.


AbsoIution

I don't play on ridiculous sensitivity, but when playing cold war, some dickhead is spamming smokes in face off and aim assist completely disappears when there is smoke despite being able to see the player come out of the smoke, hugely over aim and miss everything. It's definitely difficult to play without aim slowdown


Ul1m4

Correct, it's important to note that there is a big difference between smoke from the tacticals and the smoke from other visual interferences like the smoke that comes out of the muzzle when firing. Outside of the tactical, your AA will always work correctly, at least in this Cod: Vanguard. And again, i agree you guys need your slow down AA and maybe even some rotation aim assist... but not this level. I'm seeing robotic levels of aim assist that take away the need of almost any level of human interaction.


AbsoIution

Yeah I agree, especially with the rotation aim assist. Aim assist works best when it's working but you feel like you're doing all the work, if that makes sense. It shouldn't feel blindingly obvious assist is helping you stay on track, it should feel natural and focus on the slowdown when crosshair is over the target


Ul1m4

Yeah, i totally know what you are saying. I played Cod 4 on controller for a while just for fun and i don't remember the AA being particularly strong on that game, i might be wrong though, it's been a very long time. But i still remember needing to aim properly in order to hit something, specially snipers. Still, personally, the best controller experience i have ever had was when i played Timesplitters 1 and 2, those games were a lot of fun on the ps1 and ps2. I don't know if there was AA there or not though.


AbsoIution

I used to love timesplitters, they had a movement/aiming system which was much different to what I remembered though. I can't remember exactly how it worked, but it was funky trying to play after playing modern shooters for so long


Brutox62

Bo3 you're correct IW you're partially right if you're talking about the beta after the full game no one used a sniper


a_lot_of_aaaaaas

So yes the conclusion is: crosplay doesn't work. Both parties mkb or controller will always complain about who is right and whi has the most advantage. Both are two different input devices. If there was only crosplay for ps and Xbox ps probably would complain about the elite controllers or something. Make crosplay atleast input based. Or just give up on it because it doesn't work. Most people of both parties turn it of for their own reasons now. I don't care who is right, the point is that nobody is happy about it the way it is now.


Mysterious-Aerie6654

“Nobody is happy”? Nah just vocal minority.


CapnGnobby

Shhh, they don't like that term around here.


IKEA-SalesRep

Yeah, the large majority is happy. I mean, the game is catered to them, why would they want that to change? Sucks for the PC players who were forced into it though.


DreadPirateWalrus

PC wouldn’t survive sadly without consoles for cod


IKEA-SalesRep

Yes it would. Maybe back on Ghosts or AW it wouldn’t. But since they made PC ports not 100% garbage, they’re fine. BO4 up until MWs release still had a playerbase and I could get into a game no issue. And for that matter, I actually have a harder time getting matches on Cold War with crossplay then I ever did on BO4. Even on nuketown or brand new playlists, west coast, good ping, day time, it will sometimes take over 30 seconds.


DreadPirateWalrus

I could have sworn they reduced the playlists on bo4 for the reduced player base


IKEA-SalesRep

Probably, but realistically nobodies playing the fringe playlists anyway. TDM, Hardpoint, Dom. There ya go. Not many people are gonna play mercenary hardcore 3rd person demolition or whatever, so why keep it? Cold War should honestly trim down its playlists as well, would help with finding better ping lobbies and matchmaking times


Gohanspecker

Besides Warzone multiplayer has always been dead on PC. It’s a fraction of the player base of even Xbox


bonermilf

>the point is that nobody\* is happy about it the way it is now. on Reddit\*


a_lot_of_aaaaaas

Yes. That is indeed what I should have added.


juniorspank

I keep crossplay off specifically so I don’t have to play with PC players because of K&M or cheating.


Ul1m4

I'm sorry to say to you but you can have cheaters on consoles as well by adding cronus zen/max or strike packs scripts and it's not even detectable or bannable. And believe me, there are a lot of those floating around this community considering you can use those add-ons on other games as well that use AA.


Gohanspecker

I haven’t seen a cheater in a long time. It’s for sure more of a PC issue. I just played some black ops 4 and no cheaters, yet on PC you load up Cold War and there are cheaters everywhere


Ul1m4

That was actually my experience on Bo4. That game had quite a few cheaters throught the whole year that was populated. I liked some aspects a lot of that game but others... not so much. For me, the way to play the game was on barebones, i absolutely loved that game mode mixed with the game's mechanics. Mw19 had barely any cheaters for a year after its release, during the 2nd year things started to sour unfortunately. Important to indicate that mw19 had always a very different hacking situation to Wz. CW i played for at most, 3 months, and i hated it in every single way so i'm kinda biased but i didn't see many cheaters during the time i played it.


IrishBros91

Apex does it perfectly console vs console and if you join a PC friend your in PC lobbies and also your aim assist is adjusted to be less from 0.6 to 0.4 everything is covered then!


chy23190

Yeah no the aim assist doesn't change, thats a myth. The only time console players aim assist is 0.4, is if they play in comp/algs. The devs specified this at least, but they never said anything about aim assist changing in the game elsewhere.


IrishBros91

Nah you can even set it to PC aim assist on console in console lobbies in settings now they changed it up


chy23190

Yes i know about that. But im talking about the claim it changes automatically to 0.4 when in a PC lobby. It doesn't, if a console player leaves it at 0.6 they will have that against PC players. 0.4 is just there because some people prefer it, especially anyone who plans to play in comp its better for them not to switch between two different aim assist strength settings.


ThechroniclesofMEEP

I've been playing with crossplay on since mw19 because without it I can't find a game for 30 minutes(ps4) due to the thicc sbmm. I have no problems facing swiping left and right jump spinning pc guys and I have no issue playing against my fellow controller players even the ones who uses cchronuses.(I gunshipped a guy using a chronus- it was in his name and he was on pc) I like crossplay as it allows for different people to mingle and it diversified the lobbies as you can tell who the pc guys are and who the controller guys are just by how they move around the map. OP is right the game is about positioning but it always has been. Warzone messed these guy's heads up because their favorite streamer slide cancels and uses "satisfying/cracked" movement and it looks cool. But guess what me knowing the maps and predicting where you're going is gonna win 9/10 times over your quick and twitchy aim(which in itself is broken. Just look at exoghost and handler. "Aim assist" doesn't have a chance against these guys) Like I love how dudes on pc who has more control and mobility around the map complain about a mechanic that they'll probably die to once maybe twice a game in which aim assist was the actual issue. Let's be real here OP probably died on a streak or something to aim assist and got mad. And most likely still finished the game with 50 kills because everyone else just can't keep up with his movements


Ul1m4

You are mostly correct. I would only add something to your comment and conclusion. It's perfectly possible to balance the AA to work in conjunction with MnK, it just needs a correct tuning so that enough human interaction is still needed from the roller player to play balanced to other players and inputs. But that's something only SHG can achieve. I would say that maybe going back to MW19 levels of AA could work because MnK still existed in harmony with rollers, but that game had lower levels of weapon recoil and visual interference so idk if it's easy to achieve that balance... Input base mm would be pretty awesome honestly though! Idk about the ps vs xbox thing because there is the cronus zen/max problem to adress as well which only fucks everything up. I still don't understand how that crap is not detectable or unbannable but whatever.


a_lot_of_aaaaaas

Unfortunately there indeed always will be cheaters.


OrbFromOnline

It almost certainly will be input based in the full game. MW2019 and Cold War both prioritize input matchmaking, not sure why this one wouldn't.


JMocks

The game is already input-based. I play on a PC with a controller. All day yesterday I saw nobody with MnK in my lobbies.


Ul1m4

Hmm, sorry but can you quote that from anywhere online? I play with a single friend on pc with controller and he is always getting every possible combination of inputs with either Xplay on or off, with off appearing only battle net but both MnK and/or controllers. This is either on party or solo too. So, maybe it's just your experience for some reason?


Matiu0s

Crossplay does indeed work. It's just some small minorities complaining in the internet


Techno_Six

The solution is to have toggleable cross input. Not cross platform. Platform doesn’t matter that much. A PlayStation player and an Xbox player? Cool. Bring a keyboard and mouse in and all hell breaks loose. Controller players complaining that mouse is an objectively better device for aiming (true) and mouse players complaining that aim assist sometimes does mental things (also true). Both points are entirely valid. Let players choose whether they want to do that. It’s fine in multiplayer because cross play isn’t forced and not many people use the other device on any given platform. But Warzone forcing crossplay is a joke. Recoil control and aiming precision are huge advantages of mouse. But if you get stunned? You’re dead. On controller a stun isn’t always a death sentence as occasionally the aim assist just aims for you. I play on both so no need to attack me on which side is right. They both are. Now for the subjective bit. I think mouse is easier than controller and has an advantage. I have played a lot more controller in my life but I have better stats on mouse when I’m on crossplay. It’s an advantage. Aim assist will never balance it because they are so different. The only solution is to not force crossplay.


Ul1m4

Thank you for the comment, it was a good read. I'm not here to attack anyone and when i call controller users "rollers" it's not on a derrogatory term but more because it's an easier way to call those users. Toggleable cross input could indeed perfectly work but honestly, i personally feel that even though that could indeed work successfully to fix the problem, it would just isolate those 2 inputs without trying to create harmony between each other. My proposition would include everyone. Just regress the AA to the level that existed on Mw19. I feel that on mw19 i, and many of my friends on MnK, can/could go toe to toe vs controller users without too much of an issue. Since CW things clearly went sideways and now everything is out of control with Vanguard. I don't feel that controller users during Mw19 were having issues with MnK players that much, considering i have controller friends that have fantastic stats that surpass pretty much every MnK user that i know of. >I think mouse is easier than controller and has an advantage. I know at least 2 friends of mine that play with both inputs on Mw19. One has 4.4 kd with controller and 2.2 kd with MnK, the other has 3 kd with controller and 2 kd with MnK. Both are amazing players that are better than me and i have the best overall stats of all my non-controller friends with 2 kd. All of us have between 65 to 75% win rate with me being 74% win rate, all on us have these stats on Domination. All of our stats are considerably worse on CW and again worse on Vanguard. My stats: [https://cod.tracker.gg/modern-warfare/profile/battlenet/ultimapt%232901/mp](https://cod.tracker.gg/modern-warfare/profile/battlenet/ultimapt%232901/mp) I still think, personally, that controller players can have the upper hand on Mp at least since Mw19. Considering i used to be a 3kd to 4kd player before Xplay was ever implemented, i felt the difference considerably when i experienced playing vs those players. Nowadays, everytime i play against MnK players that are not cheating, i'm always at ease, i only pretty much lose games vs controller players on CW and Vanguard, that's all. Something that doesn't happen on Mw19 at all.


francovilar

Give us input based crossplay or better: give the option to full crossplay or just console crossplay.


EasyMcSleezy

100% words out of my brain. Enjoy the award!


Ul1m4

Thank you. I'm glad i'm not alone with this feeling and perception of this topic.


I_Have_3_Legs

About point #1 Some controller players do not rely on aim assist nearly that hard. I personally have my aim assist and aim assist window set to 45 and 65 for most characters on overwatch. McCree, soldier, Ashe baptise, Ana, etc. A lot of the time, super strong aim assist screws us over too and I feel like you are only pointing out the times where aim assist helps controller players and never all the times aim assist fuck us over. Like when I'm aiming down lan and see an enemy pop up but another enemy runs by, dragging my crosshair on to him, then getting killed by the guy down field because I'm not aiming at him anymore and by the time I try and snap back with clunky aim assist, I'm dead. If you were to count all the times aim assist was "OP" and all the times "aim assist fucked you over" people would realize it isn't that broken. They also have different aim settings and aim assist settings. I assume the vanguard aim assist setting is the broken one? I swapped to linear ramp and Cold war aim assist but I feel like any aim assist in this game is *off*. I don't know how to explain it.


Ul1m4

I do agree that aim assist specifically was messed up on CW, i have seen that happen many times. I'm not qualified to give a proper opinion regarding OW, i never played or watched that game. I played on controller in the past on Cod 4 and Halo 1 and 2, so that's all i have experienced so far and on Cod 4, it wasn't anything special. But on Vanguard, the AA is just on another level... Look, maybe i'm seeing cronus zen/max users with scripts added so they have no recoil and better aim assist, i have no idea, there is no real way to detect it. But i have seen and experienced way too many gun fights vs controllers that feel like i'm playing vs the AI than humans. There is no space for human reaction, the target acquisition will immediately react to targets and track before the user even has time to react to the information that there is an enemy in front of said user. I don't believe this is going to a correct path for roller's sake too. Anyway, as i said on my post, i'm not saying that rollers shouldn't have AA, they simply should have their rotation aim assist tuned down so there is actual space for human reaction and aim correction like us. And this isn't even taking into account the visual interference from visual recoil (different from recoil) and visual interference through smoke added in front of the muzzle of the gun when firing.


I_Have_3_Legs

Understandable. Ever since playing overwatch, my aim has been shit on most games because they don't offer the same customization. It's ridiculous how in depth the aim settings are in overwatch then in CoD you just have "Vanguard aim assist", "Cold war aim assist". Why not actually let us customize our aim settings? Or maybe overwatch just spoiled me, idk. I doubt CoD will do anything good for the community with aim assist considering people have been asking for black ops 1 combat record for over 10 years now and yet the combat record gets worse and worse every year. I honestly think the devs are just out of touch and don't want to commit to their games every year because Activision just wants the game to be a cash cow. Why implement better controller aim assist when another cod will come out next year? All we can do is hope but I kinda lost all hope after black ops 3.


Ul1m4

>It's ridiculous how in depth the aim settings are in overwatch then in CoD you just have "Vanguard aim assist", "Cold war aim assist". Why not actually let us customize our aim settings? Or maybe overwatch just spoiled me, idk. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't have 4 different aim assist types on CW? I could swear that you had 4 of those but people only used either the standard or the precision if you wanted to snipe. Sorry but i'm not very knowledgable about the settings you guys use on that periferal. Regarding the combat record, yeah for sure, i'm still annoyed about IW never let us see our medals in that game. I wanted to verify the amount of nukes i have there but i can't... lame. But yup, after Bo3 things kinda derailed a bit. I would even include Bo3 because of it's abusive dlc system but that's another story.


oprahd1d911

holy cope


IKEA-SalesRep

No, this is on ongoing issue, and this man has done an ***excellent*** write up, with other constructive feedback. THIS is the feed back SHG games is looking for, not the general shit posting this sub sees. But when someone does actually provide **REAL** feedback, all people say is "lol cope get good shitter"


oprahd1d911

this is soooo rich....mkb players bragging how they would shit on console players if they brought in crossplay now pc players are complaining that controller players have too much of an advantage..LMAO cant make this up


IKEA-SalesRep

??? Which MnK players said that? Back in 2009, that was certainly the case, because the xbox was a 30 fps 720p machine with 10 FOV and terrible input. But even as early as 2015 in BO3 you had people on PC using controllers, or finding ways to use aim assist with MnK, because it was so strong. Fun fact: BO4 on PC actually has no aim assist at all on PC because of how abused it was in BO3. Idk man, seems like you're taking the PC master race memes to heart, they're just jokes. Idk why you'd want an unbalanced input in the game. All that "aim resist" people complain about is a direct result of the stronger aim assist, so it seems like it hurts everybody. Idk why you're trying to make this an "Us vs them" thing. Im a CoD player. 6 years on console and 5 on PC. I fucking love this game. And I dont want to see the devs get away with catering to noobs by adding this ridiculous level of aim assist, and I think theres a way to balance it without making one input too "OP". You're acting as if PC players abused you for years and the shoes on the other foot. We didnt. We quietly played the shitty PC ports and didnt say a thing. Dont know why you console players hate us so much. Oh well. Have a nice day


WetDonkey6969

PC gamers before cross play: LMFAOOO IMAGINE USING A CONTROLLER IN AN FPS. PC MASTER RACE!!! PC players when consoles got cross play: REEEE LET US IN PC players after cross play: WTF AIM ASSIST IS BROKEN. DEVS, YOU HAVE TO CATER TO PC PLAYERS AND NERF AIM ASSIST, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THE SMALLEST PLAYER BASE, ARE THE SOLE REASON FOR HACKERS IN COD LOBBIES, AND THE DEFAULT INPUT ON THE OTHER TWO PLATFORMS IS CONTROLLER. Turn off crossplay if you care that much. But you won't, because just like every cod game before crossplay it dies a few months after release. Imagine being invited into the crossplay garden, tearing up the plants, and demanding to be accommodated.


Ul1m4

>ARE THE SOLE REASON FOR HACKERS IN COD LOBBIES Hmm, hackers are not limited to MnK or pc's you know? You have cronus zen/max and strike packs that enable scripts that are not even detectable or bannable that lowers recoil to almost zero, enable auto-fire and do other functions. Pc's are not the origin of all evil. Turning off crossplay does nothing to this situation because controllers can still play on pc vs MnK users, we have no way to play vs only MnK users at all. Still, what i'm proposing is going back to the level of AA of Mw19, that's all. You will still have a very strong AA to use, it just won't be insanely strong like it is now. The best players on Wz at the time Mw19 launched were pretty much all controller players anyway.


IKEA-SalesRep

Weird, back in 2009-2014, people sad MnK would win. But now thats changed. I wonder if that has anything to do with aim assist becoming stronger in the last few years? Nah, couldn't be. Maybe stop looking at what some PCMR weirdo said 10 years ago and look at the current issue. https://twitter.com/CloverWzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=20 Controller is the superior input, and might need some tweaking. Crossplay off doesnt work.


ThechroniclesofMEEP

Soooo... Aim assist over every other issue is what you're refunding the game over? Wowza.


Ul1m4

Yes and many other friends that i know. Pretty much every single issue i indicated in my post is either easy to change/improve or will simply take a couple patches to iron out. As i said before, the way they made the AA in this game is most likely intended and when something is intended, specially with profit in mind, that's when it becomes an ideal behind the conception of a product. They, the companies developing cod games under Activi$ion, clearly want to lower the skill gap in the game between both players and inputs and that is easily represented by their many decisions over these last 3 call of duties, AA specially. I don't have fun playing a game on hardcore, it's simply not for me and i don't wanna play by myself after many years of playing with friends mostly on objective game modes, so i will instead leave if nothing is changed and find other games to spend my free time and money. I mean, outside of this specific problem i have with the game, i don't find Vanguard to be a bad game at all. We will see how things will work out.


ThechroniclesofMEEP

None of these issues maybe apart from balancing of weapons will be changed. You'll be waiting forever for that to happen.


Ul1m4

I disagree, they actually changed a lot of those issues from alpha to beta. SHG can actually change a lot of those things without too much trouble to them... the AA on the other hand i very much doubt it. For reference, they improved the slide, slightly the sound, the visual interference when firing (although they still need to take care of the smoke effect), some global lighting values, nerfed a couple of guns and streaks, a couple of bugs and this was all in what? 2 weeks time, some streaks were nerfed during the 1st week of this beta... i feel optimistic regarding that at least.


bduckets

Yes


DIABOLUS777

Crossplay needs to be input based. AA is so busted in COD, PC players switch to controllers. To me that's crazy. And I read it's even worse in Halo. I really hate what consoles did since MS entered the scene.


Ul1m4

I agree with your 1st comment. I mean, consoles are fine and even rollers can be fine between them... i just think that everything is getting out of hand since CW specifically. AA was already really strong on Mw19 but we could still manage them as MnK users, now it's just impossible to deal with them in most situations. But yeah, maybe MS was the 1st to f everything up. I played Halo 1 and Halo 2 on the xbox and i remember how strong the AA was at that time. I just feel that the lack of skill gap is something that shouldn't happen on any competitive environment, leave that crap to the campaign or something.


DIABOLUS777

Aim assist destroys competitive integrity. The only game that seems to have understood that is overwatch. If you crossplay with mixed inputs, AA is disabled. And on PC, there's no AA if you choose to play with a controller.


Gohanspecker

Or just disable cross play for PC versus consoles and watch PC die again


DIABOLUS777

Warzone wouldn't die, it's F2P.


Gohanspecker

Not Warzone, regular multiplayer


DIABOLUS777

If it dies, it dies. After 6 months anyway it's beyond stale. There are ways to make a game live, but Activision is not going that route. Other FPS PC games thrive without crossplay, why is COD doing so bad on PC you think?


steelewebb91

Op I play controller on pc ( mostly because of cervical spine injury makes hard to hold arms on my desk). I really think alot of what you are noticing isn't your average aim assist. I'm a decent player I roll a 1.5-2kd depending on the cod, higher before sbmm but I digress. I have tried all the aim assist settings, I have field of view maxed out and aim response curve set how I like it. In all reality I should have the best of both worlds. I have alot of trouble with the aim assist in this beta all but one of them feels like I'm fighting against it. However I see people perfect aim no recoil me at level 1 all day long. Could they be better than me? Absolutely! Then I run into someone with say a sniper, I'm running stg heavy rounds with frangible. I should make this guy flinch into the stratosphere, but he has no flinch, I watch him eat 3 bullets and his aim not move upwards. I then got beamed across redstar, with a thompson while shooting said guy while behind a head glitch. At that point I really got to thinking, what is actually going on here? I thoroughly believe that large amounts of the player base are using cronis max or strike packs, or at least higher kd sbmm lobbies are riddled with them. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! Really think on this though how many aimbot lobbies have you seen on warzone? If you've seen that many imagine how many are doing it and you haven't caught them.


Ul1m4

Hello, thanks for the comment, i'm sorry that you are going through with such a personal health problem, it must be really tough, hang in there! Regarding the cronus zen/max or strike packs. I commented with other redditors replying to this post about exactly that. I'm not entirely sure what i am going up against exactly. Is what i'm experiencing the normal AA? Or is this add-ons of some kind? I don't really know unfortunately. What i know is that i have seen and followed the testing of certain streamers that most likely don't have those add-ons because otherwise, their reputation would be destroyed. But are they lying or hidding using those just to bad mouth controller players? It's unlikely but it's possible yes. I left 2 videos related to this situation on my post and i can add 2 more that i have shared for others. This is a simple test of AA on mw19 and at that time, the AA wasn't as strong as CW or Vanguard: [https://www.twitch.tv/bluex/clip/OilyFreezingWaspM4xHeh-NgipF4pMwMCx15Ko?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/bluex/clip/OilyFreezingWaspM4xHeh-NgipF4pMwMCx15Ko?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time) This is again on Mw: [https://m.twitch.tv/clip/RepleteStylishDunlinPJSalt](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/RepleteStylishDunlinPJSalt) If we are seeing something stronger now when compared to the videos above, can we really say this is all the add-ons fault? I'm not sure, but i have feeling that it isn't the case. I am experiencing a lot of these situations since CW to the point i didn't buy the game because of exactly this situation. A friend of mine bought me the game so i could give it another chance. I unlocked Dark Matter after 2 months of play time, played a bit more with tryhard guns, felt frustrated to how horrible both the mm is and the AA is over there. Went to Hardcore to see if i could have fun and uninstalled the game after a week. The game simply is not fun, i feel i'm not even playing vs humans but more vs robotic weapon handling, it's weird as hell and makes me feel like i'm losing gun fights for no reason. I have 2 kd with 74% win rate playing only Dom on mw19 and i have 1.4 kd with 63% win rate playing only TDM, i can barely even win games on domination on CW at all. I have no idea about Vanguard, but even though i'm doing kinda better than CW, it's mostly because of the TTK because almost all of my non-controller user friends (we are around 20) are going continuously negative instead. Most of us play together since Cod 1 many years ago, and since CW, we are all going to Hardcore in order to play together and stay positive because outside of me, no one can handle Core. It's a sad thing to be alienated this way and it's not only because of add-ons, i'm sure. Sorry for the wall of text. Oh, and Vanguard beta has a lot of cheaters as well that are not related to controllers at all and that's obviously not on you. You just might be watching kill cams of actual MnK cheaters, there are a lot of those too unfortunately... i always check when i'm getting rekt if it's a cheater or a AA user.


Silverjoystix_

I'm pretty good using my mouse and keyboard in this game. What kind of monitor are you using (refresh rate)?


Ul1m4

This is my setup: MOBO - ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO LGA1150 CPU - INTEL CORE I7-4790K 4.0GHZ 8MB LGA1150 GPU - GIGABYTE GTX980 G1 GAMING 4GB GDDR5 CPU COOLER - COOLERMASTER HYPER 212 EVO CASE - COOLERMASTER CM690 III (GRID) HDD - SEAGATE 1TB SATA III PSU - CORSAIR RM650 MODULAR 80+ RAM - G.SKILL Kit 16GB DDR3 2400MHz TridentX CL10 (dual channel) SSD - SAMSUNG 850 EVO 250GB SATA 3 2.5 SSD MONITOR - BENQ XL2430T 24" FULLHD LED I use 144hz. I have no idea about my stats on Vanguard because it's pretty much impossible to see it unless you save every result somewhere and make the average. I mean, i'm not horrible at the game or anything, i just don't have fun with the way the game is going right now with the present AA. It's sometimes like i'm playing vs highest level of AI difficulty setting but with human positioning, knowledge and coordenation. It's absurd and just needs a slight tuning to said feature.


Price-x-Field

“roller players”


Ul1m4

It's just quicker to write it like that, it's not meant to be a derrogatory term.


jiiggu

its a console fps, has been a console fps for years. when I was getting shit on in fortnite while using a controller i knew it was cause I was using a controller. It’s annoying but it is what it is. controller having aim assist shouldnt affect you if your a good mnk player anywho


Ul1m4

I didn't affect much during Mw19 and then it became much worse on CW and then again in this one. And that is quite representative of my stats on those 2 games (i can't see the stats of Vanguard). It's representative as well on my friends overall stats too, it's not cool to see my friends that played since Cod 1 and other older fps being unable to stay positive anymore since CW even though they could stay positive on Mw19. These were players that had 1.5 to 2 kd during Bo4 and other older Cods while i had 3.5 to 4kd and now i have 2kd on Mw19 and 1.4 on CW. It's impossible to not see that things are getting out of hand lately.


jiiggu

what your saying is very common, but has nothing to do with controller, its a mix between games being easier to be good at and sbmm. there are more cracked players, and sbmm made it harder to avoid said cracked players. its the way all cods have been for a while, starting with bo4


bduckets

Now over half of the PC players I see use controller because it’s clearly way better in this game. The game literally plays itself when you’re on controller


BananasWithGuns

M/KB players complaining about aim assist is some of the most laughable shit ever I swear. Just have input based matchmaking, because we don't want to play with you either.


SlowVibeActual

What a long winded way to say the games trash.


Ul1m4

I never said the game is trash, it has a lot of potencial. In my opinion, i think it has more potential that CW ever had but... it has issues that need to be fixed and most likely will in majority be fixable but the AA on the hand, probably won't. Therefore, me and my friends have to draw the line somewhere. That's all, sorry for the wall of text.


Acceptable-Tip2770

Another whining m/k player. Interesting that you only focus on the one advantage console players have over m/k. FOV / FPS / fluent movement, to name a few you guys have, and those give a huge advantage in a game with such low ttk. If you see me first, you are very likely to, because of 160 fps vs 60, im dead. ​ Remove the crossplay, it will never be even fields no matter what. Then you can at least know you are being dominated by better players, not only because they are on a different setup than you are, this will also kill the whining from the poor neglected m/k players


Ul1m4

First of all, thanks for your comment. >Another whining m/k player. Interesting that you only focus on the one advantage console players have over m/k. FOV / FPS / fluent movement, to name a few you guys have, and those give a huge advantage in a game with such low ttk. If you see me first, you are very likely to, because of 160 fps vs 60, im dead. If you read more about this topic in relation to the comments of this post you would know that some of the things you are addressing that are supposed to be advantages, won't be anymore on release. * **Fov** slide is going to be added after the release of the game. SHG already promised to deliver that afterwards but we simply don't know what values will be available for ps4 and ps5. * **FPS**'s will be dependant on the performance of both the ps4 and ps5. Theoretically, the ps5 can achieve up to 120 fps when setting up for performance mode. I don't have any idea about the xbox fps's though. What i do know is that if the ps5 is having as much issues as the ps4, then the lack of fps is more of an optimization issue and not an hardware limitation. My pc is not anything special with an i7-4790k and a gtx 980 and i can achieve easily between 115 to 144 fps with low'ish graphical quality and appropriate graphical customization. This level of hardware is very most likely equivalent between a ps4 and ps5. If you are only getting 60 fps, then you either are playing on a ps4 and/or choosing to have the highest possible graphical settings in terms of quality. Either of those situations are not the pc's existance fault but your own choice. * **Movement**. If you checked other people's arguments regarding this specific subject, the movement is much easier to control on controller than on MnK. We have access to 9 static speed directions while you have perfect 360 degrees of motion with dynamic velocity. Personally, i feel it's much easier to slide cancel as well on controller when compared to MnK but this might be slightly subjective. If you can't move as much as pc players on MnK, then it's your lack of skills, mastery and understanding of your own input than actually potencial capabilities. There is a reason why the pro scene is so good at movement on controller and why theres barely any existance of MnK players out there, specially on WZ. None of these situations you indicated deal with the fact that controllers on PC which are making up for the majority of PC users right now, that have the best of both worlds, are on an acceptable situation when vs other controllers or MnK. The majority of us are simply asking for a regression of the specific part of rotation aim assist to the levels of mw19 so that we can have a level playing field. If you think this level of automation is acceptable even for you, then i'm sorry to tell you that you barely have any skill gap at all in your games and you don't even notice that. >Remove the crossplay, it will never be even fields no matter what. Then you can at least know you are being dominated by better players, not only because they are on a different setup than you are, this will also kill the whining from the poor neglected m/k players Removing crossplay does nothing because, as i said before above and as was written by other users in this post, Xplay does not disable the presence of controller users on PC. **There is no input based Xplay**. And in relation to being dominated vs better players. On Mw19, i can count on one hand the amount of **players on MnK** that are better than me on Domination and it's mostly because of an ping issue (i have around 65 to 75 ping when i'm dealing with players with 10 to 20 ping). This is no bragging, i actually have stats to prove this with 74% win rate and damascus done. Most of the games i'm losing are either vs hackers or premades that overpower me with numbers while my team is completely horrible (thanks pbmm). [https://cod.tracker.gg/modern-warfare/profile/battlenet/ultimapt%232901/mp](https://cod.tracker.gg/modern-warfare/profile/battlenet/ultimapt%232901/mp) So i'm perfectly at ease in playing vs any level of skill of MnK players out there... but on controller, that's another story. Before Xplay was added, i used to have between 3.5 to 4kd while having a very high win rate. So to conclude, we can achieve harmony between inputs as long as SHG understands that too much automation is a bad thing, that's all. And if you think this is just the "whining" of MnK players out there, it isn't. Your own pros in the competitive scene are saying the same. [https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21](https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21) Have a nice day.


Acceptable-Tip2770

Im not a pro, and i will never be competing in this, mostly due to lack of skill. I just find it hard to read all the comments from m/k players complaining about aimassist when its litterally the only advantage console players have over pc players, hence the removal of cp suggestion. Then this wont be an issue anymore, everyone competing on level terms and no more its uneven, its not fair, he has a controller and all that jazz. Ya ppl will use controllers on pc, but us consolecasuals will be spared. Lets be honest, the overwhelming majority of the casual gamers out there are not PC players.... Obviously this will be bigger issues with better / competetive players, as they invest more time and practice to get better, so i definately see the issue there. Me, im a casual at best and will never be anything else. ​ Give us rankedmodes so us bad and casual players dont have to play CDL in pubs, cause thats the feeling i get these days. You litterally get punished for having a string of good games, and as a casual, that drives me away from the game. ​ Thank you for your reply, and have a great day yourself my friend :)


XuK-He4DHuNt3r

Haven't seen anyone tag u/SledgehammerGames \- Hopefully they see this. I don't understand the backlash you are getting u/Ul1m4 \- It's not like you are asking for rotational aim assist to be removed, just tweaked back to how it was on MW2019. The current strength of rotational AA is bad for everyone, it lessens the skill gap for all controller players.


Ul1m4

Thanks for the tag and the understanding comment. I think it's mostly because most controller players don't want power taken away from them and that's a natural reaction, i just wished people would be slightly more rational to this. There is another problem with some controller players that didn't/don't notice the AA evolution over the years and think everything is the same when obviously it isn't and even though they really need to compete efficiently, i think things are going a bit out of control. In the end, everyone will lose if this continues. We will see if SHG is kinda receptive to this situation or not, i will not put my hopes up. This might be the 2nd Cod i will not buy since forever if nothing is done honestly...


Two_Apples

Came from another post… You sir NAILED IT 100 FUCKING PERCENT! The problems are not some new or different mechanics like attachments, weather or even maps… It’s the broken ass matchmaking and the aim assist that needs fine tuning ffs


Ul1m4

Thank you for the feedback. It's good to see more redditors and cod players understanding this controversial problem.


GTvTwistedOps

Good


GATh33Gr8

I play on controller on PC and agree. AA is incredibly strong but doesn’t MnKB make recoil almost non existent? Not that they should trade and should be more balanced but I still agree with you


FamilySushi

Lol.. you have to compensate on MnK for recoil it takes practice and tracking while doing it is not as easy as you think.


THEREALZ3R0

Different guns are easier to control than others on either way to play, but MnK ain’t that hard to control recoil it’s as easy as controller for me


FamilySushi

Yea let's be real recoil is not bad on Vanguard other than like long range Tommy gun but mnk tracking can be hard thru all the shit on the screen.


THEREALZ3R0

That’s true


M4GIX

Playing with a mouse makes vertical recoil probably easier to handle but I've always felt like we have more of an issue with horizontal recoil.


Ul1m4

Personally, that's true for me. That's why i always used commando foregrip or muzzle break on some horizontal recoil guns on mw19 even though it made you really slow.


NBKDexx

CoD on PC was dead 3 weeks after release anyway back in the days before Crossplay. Good riddance.


AKScorpion75

*sigh*


878choppa

Bo3 aim assist was the best it wouldn't give you free kills and it was still hard af to shoot especially going back after playing CW which has way too much AA coming from a controller player


Ul1m4

I see, that's interesting to see. And you guys had the boots off the ground mechanics on that game as well, i wonder what would happen if we could have experienced AA vs MnK at that time already. Bo3 was a really fun game for us MnK players, at least i had a lot of fun with it at the time outside of the bullshit dlc system.


AceDynamicHero

As a controller player on PC, I find it hilarious that all of the MnK players think that aim assist is so supremely OP. You take the best MnK against the best Controller and MnK wins that fight 9 out of 10 times. The way a MnK can snap over will always be faster then a controller no matter how much aim assist you have. There's always gonna be a grass is greener mentality. Looking forward to the downvotes. EDIT - That being said, cross-play should absolutely be input based. They said it would happen before MW2019 was released then quietly didn't follow through with it.


IKEA-SalesRep

What? Snapping? You realize quick flicks almost never matter in a gun fight right? It’s consistent tracking. Which controller is superior at. Even said so by controller pros https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21 Like, this isn’t even a debate, controller is better.


AceDynamicHero

The fact that you are up and down this thread constantly posting this exact same tweet just shows the copium. I'm sorry you're getting dusted by controller users, bro. Just get better.


IKEA-SalesRep

What? Yeah, in a thread about the question of "is aim assist in need of tweaking", of course I'm going to post links for my case. Why wouldn't I? The only thing that proves is that I know what I'm talking about and have evidence to back it up. The fact is, someone 10 times better than you contradicts what you're saying. Who's more educated on the matter, a long time controller pro, or you, some randy? Im gonna go with the dude who's made over a 100k playing games on controller. Kinda funny that you have NOTHING to back up your claims or refute mine so you just default to "cope get good" lol. Honestly man, just give up, you clearly dont have a clue.


AceDynamicHero

Hilarious that you yourself told someone else they were ODing on copium in this very thread while breathing deep it's pride protective properties. Simmer down, chief. If you're such a badass at CoD, then why have you posted in this thread so often in protection of your fragile ego. We all have games where we finished top. Doesn't mean the other hundreds of games you played and got your ass handed to you by a controller player didn't suddenly trigger your self-preservation of blaming anything but yourself for getting dusted. Get off that IV drip of copium, bro, and just get better. Nobody thinks less of you for losing a game.


IKEA-SalesRep

Lol, I dont think im a badass at anything. CoD is simply a hobby that I like very much. So I care about these things. And yes, I replied to a shit post comment with a shit post answer. You responded to actual criticism with a shit post. Because you have nothing to refute what Im saying, or what pros are saying. Even now, you're going off on a tangent, trying to paint me as some fragile cod player who cares what his KD is. You keep pivoting and creating versions of me in your head that dont exist. So please, back on topic, tell me how what that pro player said was wrong. Go on. I'll wait.


AceDynamicHero

> You keep pivoting and creating versions of me in your head that dont exist. One five second glance at your profile and the sheer amount of times you've whinged about the mean old AA doing you wrong in multiple threads tells everything I need to know about the kind of CoD player I'm talking to. As for controller vs MnK, I said what I said already. You just said "nuh-uh!" and called it a day. Mouse has and always will have more control and more ability to snap between targets. Considering the TTK in CoD, that's a massive advantage over controller. Not to mention things like being able to strafe, jump, aim, and shoot at the same time that anybody without a SCUF controller and time to learn how to use it wouldn't be able to do.


IKEA-SalesRep

What? You can strafe on controller, just use your left stick? Also bumper jumper exists which is what I use. Again, close range tracking is king and controller beats MnK at it no contest, and If you watched that clip, it somes up the advantages clearly. Again, pivoting to "haha your profile is stupid", because you have nothing to say. Lol.


AceDynamicHero

Yeah, we're done here. You clearly have an axe to grind against AA due to what I can only assume is a bruised ego considering you have Super Duper Elite Gamer™ screen caps at the ready to post whenever someone dares threaten said ego. I'm very sorry that somebody using an xbox 360 controller mowed you down with an SMG before you had time to ADS them with your mouse. I promise it doesn't make you any less of a MLG gamer. Now drink your copium and let's get you to bed. Also, the word you're looking for is "sums", chief. EDIT - Oh my god, you've edited all of your posts and removed your "totally badass" screen shots of you being number one on your team in three different games. Holy shit, dude. That's some fucking sad shit to go back and alter the points you were making while still in the same debate. I almost missed it because I've literally never encountered such a sad sack who stooped to that shit.


IKEA-SalesRep

??? I edited it because I realized it had nothing to do with the discussion. I realized I fell for your pivot. My stats have NOTHING to do with the mechanical workings of aim assist. Also, I play controller AND MnK on PC. So, your whole “salty MnK” player point is useless lol. Again, you have nothing to say. Keep pivoting, talking about small edits removing non relevant screenshots, as if that helps your case. Funny thing is, I was never rude or insulting, just said that “flicks don’t matter and tracking is more important”, then posted a link to a video that explained it further. Then you got really REALLY pissed off. Idk why


KingBenial_

I mean it’s a historically controller game with the competitive scene on controller and the majority of players on console, so if the franchise loses a handful of KBM players because they’re not good enough to shoot their gun straight, so be it. I’ll keep using both inputs based on the days’ mood


Aschoate2

Stop crying it’s a fucking call of duty game. Literally the most casual game in existence. It’s absurd that you MnK players really cry about shit like this when even with aim assist, a good MnK player will dominate a good controller player. Just keep making excuses for getting shit on. Aim assist is exactly the same from MW to Vanguard.


bduckets

Top 50% controller player >> top 5% mouse and keyboard player in vanguard. And the aim assist is not the same as MW. It’s way stronger


Aschoate2

I’m top 0% controller player. Top 600 world in MW for game time. The aim assist is literally the same if not slightly weaker than MW.


bduckets

Over half of PC players I see in Vanguard are using a controller now instead of a mouse because it’s clearly the superior input device. I haven’t used a controller in years but I plugged in my wired 10 year old 360 controller and easily got the most kills and score in a lobby with my sweaty M+K friends. Aim assist literally plays the game for you in close range fights


Aschoate2

Lmao no it doesn’t. You’re just ignorant as fuck. The reason COD has a huge controller player base is because it was literally popularized on consoles. It’s not superior at all lmao. Not when PC players can have super consistent accuracy and flick speed, control recoil easier, have way more control binds. Of all things you MnK players bitch about is close range fights when they are literally in your face you could spin your cursor in circles and hit more than 80% of your shots. The aim assist is negligent, if you’re losing those fights it’s because you played it wrong and you’re just one of those shitters pissed you got murked by a roller. Aim hardly even matters in a game with this low of a TTK, not when an average MnK can flick instantly hit half their shots and win the gun fight just on flick speed alone. Let’s not pretend like this game requires any tracking at all, especially with the way they punished run and gun. Not to mention MnK excels are any sort of mid-long range gun fight. It’s literally proven that the skill floor is higher for controller but the skill ceiling is way lower compared to MnK. Just stop being a shitter


bduckets

Yeah I’m a shitter with a 2.9 K/D that instantly did better with a busted 10 year old controller that I haven’t used in years. I wasn’t even able to slide or jump because I wasn’t used to it but it was so damn easy it didn’t even matter. I’m probably already better than you with a controller after my first game with it 😂


Aschoate2

Nah you’re definitely a shitter if you’re bitching about getting shit on by controllers, you already admitted it 😂


bduckets

Where did I say I get shit on by controllers? Never did. It's okay bud, controllers are simple toys made for simple minded people. You don't have to understand it.


Aschoate2

You fuckers are the ones mad about it lmao. Just get better and stop crying people use controllers. If you weren’t getting shit on you wouldn’t care what input people use lmao. Spending all that time just to be mediocre on MnK lmao couldn’t be me. I play MnK too, COD was and always will be a controller game. The entirety of their dedicated fan base grew up playing controller on it. You have no right to bitch about it when MnK support was an afterthought lol


bduckets

Hahahah yeah? You play with MnK too? Wow you must be so good. I wonder why you use a controller instead. JK we both know why. "Spending all that time" you say while also bragging about being top 600 in game time in MW... Yeah you're just sad. Keep playing the game on baby mode.


NekoHash

Sucks you can’t turn off crossplay to avoid the game aiming for over half the lobby fucking ridiculous. Never played a game with this dogshit visibility, only KBM masochists who hate themselves would play in this current state.


Ul1m4

Adding input based match making of some kind, similar to Xplay will not really fix this issue. MnK players are not relly masochists, we just want some "normalcy" back to this genre because most of us still enjoy some aspects of this game, the aspects that made us continue to play this genre for many many years.


chy23190

It's an issue plaguing most cross input games. Tbh I only realised how strong it can be once I switched to mnk for a while and went back on controller. Majority of people are so used to it so they can't even tell if its too strong or not.


Ul1m4

Thank you for the comment. That is correct, since CW the AA has been intensified when it was already quite strong on Mw19. The difference is subtle at 1st glance but it's there, it's mostly the added different AA settings and rotation aim assist being slowly buffed. It's still understandable what some controller players defensively say regarding this topic, no one likes power to be taken away from anyone but this is a very problematic issue that will start affecting controller players vs the same input if this continues, it won't be only us MnK players. It's up to everyone if it's relevant to give feedback or not related to this matter.


Marbodius

Who needs cheats when there is aim assist on aimbot level?


Ul1m4

I'm not going far to call it aimbot level but right now, there is just too much automation involved for everyone's sake. If there is no feedback, we might actually see aimbot in 1 or 2 cods later on maybe...


Marbodius

Even though the AA is not as strong as an aimbot, your examples still show you're somehow locked on the target. The mechanics are similar


Ul1m4

You are partially correct. Not totally because actual aimbot flips the aim directly to the target instantly, this AA still has travel time... it's just tuned up to a level that is too high and unnacceptable and honestly, extremelly unhealthy for everyone involved on a competitive environment. Obviously you can argue that there are different levels of efficiency on aimbot hacks but that's another story.


OG_Rydah

Bruh do you know how much easier it is to aim with precision very consistently with MnK over a Controller? Not to mention at the very least everyone whinging about the controller assist are stupid its so minimal.


Ul1m4

That might have been true in the past, but since CW things have been getting out of hand. Sure on CW there was some issues with AA as well that pushes you sometimes off target but on Vanguard, it seems to be mostly fixed and it's extremelly powerful. If those videos are not enough idk what is... [https://www.twitch.tv/bluex/clip/OilyFreezingWaspM4xHeh-NgipF4pMwMCx15Ko?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/bluex/clip/OilyFreezingWaspM4xHeh-NgipF4pMwMCx15Ko?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time) [https://m.twitch.tv/clip/RepleteStylishDunlinPJSalt](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/RepleteStylishDunlinPJSalt) Anyway, most poeple that understand the problem at hand are just asking for a tuning to the rotation part of the AA, that's all. Everyone knows that you still need it to compete.


IKEA-SalesRep

And do you know how much easier tracking and micro adjustments are with aim assist? Aka the type of aiming that matters? I’ll tell you- it’s literally inhuman. Aim assist is capable of 0ms delay micro adjustments, it’s literally a machine. https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21 Pro player btw. So if you won’t listen to me because I “probably suck at the game”, maybe you’ll listen to him.


Mysterious-Aerie6654

Controller is better than M&KB thanks to AA


GlorifiedSatin

Don't care get fucked bozo


Ul1m4

Thanks for your constructive criticism. Have a nice day. :)


bonermilf

Honestly I do not care if MKB is underpowered. There is nothing stopping you from getting a controller and getting the benefits of a controller + PC. CoD's a console FPS first and foremost, plenty of other FPS where MKB is king. I wouldn't start playing CS and moan about how much better MKB is and if I did I would (rightfully) be told to suck it up.


M4GIX

What makes CoD a console FPS? The games have always been out on console and PC together since the first game.


Price-x-Field

a majority of the cod games have a joke of a pc port. it was not untill bo4 that we got actual ports. pretty sure bo1-3 are the only ones with a FOV slider on steam, and 3 has mods. other than that the games are jokes filled with glitches and hackers. there’s simply no way to play the older cods without using plutonium where the only players are more skilled than actual hackers.


bonermilf

\-console exclusive content \-games don't die on consoles \-pros don't use MKB


Porkiebrown78

I'm sorry but i completely disagree with how overpowered AA has been on COD!! I play controller and AA doesn't even come into for me. Just another M+K player who wants to moan when they don't think FOV and easier recoil control is enough!! If aim assist is kept in EVERY COD game from now on ..... I don't see a single person (Controller or M+K) not buying the games because of this ..... Well maybe just you!!


Ul1m4

I'm going to yonk a link from one of the commenters, IKEA-SalesRep, of this post. If you don't want to accept what we have to say then maybe check this person's opinion, i'm sure he can make you understand what we are trying to convey better than us. [https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21](https://twitter.com/cloverwzy/status/1438512092307329038?s=21) But as another user replied to you, maybe you need to configure your AA settings better? I have read a lot about some users posts during CW that their AA didn't work properly. Maybe check some settings related to this that can help people having trouble like you.


Porkiebrown78

LOL, I don't need aim assist to beat the likes of whining little M+K warriors kid


UdNeedaMiracle

FOV is irrelevant because it's already confirmed that consoles are getting adjustable FOV when the game launches. Easier to control recoil does help in some situations but in my time playing controller I didn't think the recoil in this game was bad enough that it ever cost me kills that I would've had with a mouse. People talk about framerate advantages but that's also kind of irrelevant with the new consoles having high refresh rate modes. People playing on older PCs bought when the PS4 was new arent getting high frames either. I dont think anybody playing mnk is trying to advocate for the removal of aim assist. We just want it to be balanced and we dont agree that the current level of aim assist is balanced. It also destroys the skill gap in controller vs controller situations by allowing a mechanically worse aimer to aim on par with someone much better. When people say the aim assist doesn't work for them I have to wonder if they're using bad settings or they just somehow cant feel it. I'm not a controller player and I plugged one in and went 78-23 last night. Does that seem like I'm just magically skilled on controller or does it seem like aim assist carried me? Try turning minimum deadzone down to 5. Aim assist works better with less deadzone.


Porkiebrown78

Erm ... OK then. OP is definitely trying to advocate for the removal of aim assist. So you magically went 78-23 after just plugging in a controller to come on here to share it with everyone? ...... hmmm convenient


UdNeedaMiracle

https://i.imgur.com/tXHItKa.png Nothing magic about it, aim assist in this game is so braindead easy to abuse that this is only one of many games I got with a score like this. For comparison, I tried with aim assist turned off and my highest killstreak was 2. I couldn't even go positive. This was also just with standard aim assist, not even using focusing. I don't have the full recording of the game saved but I have a lot of clips of me playing controller saved I could upload to support the fact that I achieved scores like this on controller. The OP states directly in their post multiple times that they only want to see changes to rotational aim assist, which is only part of what aim assist does. Point 1 of the original post literally acknowledges the need of aim assist for controllers. In no way can the OP's post be construed as advocating for the total removal of aim assist. I have no idea how you concluded that it's what the OP was talking about. The only aspect of aim assist that any somewhat intelligent keyboard and mouse user has a problem with is rotational. We don't care about slowdown. Rotational aim assist is way overtuned and allows absolutely crazy things like [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M4zpwZyEcFU) to happen. When I try to outplay a controller player with movement and I can't because when I jump around a corner the aim assist rotation automatically tracks me, that's aggravating. When I run around a corner and aim assist starts tracking me before the player even can react to the fact that I'm there, that's not balanced. The fact that they've made it so ridiculously easy to use a controller in this game while still keeping players convinced they're actually aiming for themselves is amazing.


ZootedFlaybish

All I know is that ‘MnK’ players are fuckin bitches. Please get out of our lobbies.


bduckets

You are a dumb child with no mechanical or reflex skills and your Reddit avatar is fucking cringe.


ZootedFlaybish

I’m 35 - studied international human rights law at Oxford, won state golf championship in HS, went to states in 2 other sports, and who doesn’t like a shib onesie?!? Everything you said is false. Cringe all you want - you’re probably just smelling your own breath. 😝 Poopy eater, ugly face! 🤪😜


bduckets

You are 35 and act like a child


Puzzleheaded_Ad3002

CBA read all that stuff. Turn off cross play. Problem solved.


pnellesen

Not really, because (in my lobbies, at least) I see more PC players using controllers than I do using Mouse/KB, and crossplay is platform based, not input based. If it was input based, I'd agree.


Ul1m4

It's interesting to see so many people making this mistake. I guess it makes sense for console players that play with controllers with crossplay off that never see MnK on console because that would make no sense at all considering the input lag and so on.