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ChocoOranges

“Actually the USSR taking the lands conquered by the former Russian empire is totally fine because reasons.” Definitive proof that commies don’t actually care about imperialism, they just use it as a stupid gotcha. I bet that if the UK turned red commies would gladly cheer on the reconquest of the empire lmao.


MuppetKit

Good sir, our costs have always been red.


draka28

Why do you think the British military wore redcoats! 🥴 Now those fuckers in the Royal Armed Forces were the original “Red Army!”


CaressOfTrains

Dig into the old US writings about the Fugitive Slave Act and you can find these commie kid arguments. "New Czar Stalin was just taking their escaped property back. It's all good and proper!"


Kir-chan

The same logic also gets applied to China, them gathering their imperial colonies + Taiwan is not an example of imperialism, because they redefined impeialism to mean "US bad".


Harsimaja

Never mind that the Dutch formally ruled much of Taiwan before China ever did.


Kir-chan

China never formally ruled over Taiwan so yea the Netherlands has more of a claim to it than China.


Harsimaja

The Qing Empire (which we can certainly reasonably call ‘China’) certainly did rule Taiwan for a couple of centuries there though? From the late 1600s before handing it over to the Japanese. But then any ‘legitimacy’ over it comes from the same place as the Soviets’ claimed inheritance of Russian imperialism.


Kir-chan

Ah yes, you're right. I guess I mixed some information up. But yea their claim is about as legitimate as colonial Europe's claim to bits Africa.


Leviation_

Im not sure if this is considered but even earlier on Ming loyalists invaded and took over the dutch colony, forming their own kingdom as a base to reorganise and hopefully restore the ming dynasty.


steph-anglican

But they never ruled all of it. The first foreigners to do that were the Japanese.


givemeyoursacc

When you support re-genocide of the Siberian population to own the imperialists.


Jman-laowai

Communism is imperialist by its very nature. Always talk about “spreading the revolution” and “global revolution” etc. Typical doublespeak and hypocrisy from commies. When others do it it’s “imperialism” when they do it it’s “revolution”. It’s not authoritarianism; it’s transitioning to a stateless society by giving the state totalitarian control over society.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Buroda

You don’t get it, those Poles were coming right at ‘em! /s


Rjj1111

They deserved it for speaking polish and being culturally polish rather than Russian /s


Micky_Whiskey

Um, yes no. The massacre was perpetrated by the Soviet union but after operation Barbosa the Nazis uncovered the mass graves and used it as propaganda to vilify the USSR towards its allies England and America. After that the massacre fell in obscurity, until the fall os the USSR and many documents where made public. The person refuses to show any proof that it wasn’t Soviets not because it’s late but because they actually can’t, the Soviet Union did murder over 20,000 Polish officers and intellectuals after the invasion. Edit: here is the wiki link if anyone doesn’t know about this and cares to learn more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre


sgtpenis511

Yeah, but it still happened, regardless of if the Nazis used it later on


Micky_Whiskey

Thanks for agreeing with my above statement. ⭐️


draka28

Read all about it as one of many “mutual atrocities” committed by the Soviets during there war with the Nazis in the seminal scholarly work (Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler And Stalin) by historian and Yale professor Timothy D. Snyder.


TheFelineWarrior

By the same logic, Hitler’s “invasions” were nothing more than poor Germany trying to retake its lost territory. Right?


Acrobatic-Eagle6705

Ah yes, citing the second most roasted historian on r/badhistory is a good source, perfectly good logic.


Harsimaja

Which historian?


Lizard_Sandwich

Grover Furr


KasumiR

"Took from Soviets during russian civil war," WTF WAS ***RUSSIAN*** *CIVIL* WAR DOING BETWEEN POLAND AND UKRAINE? Explain to me like I'm five exactly how invading Poland and Ukraine is anything but ruskies being imperialists?


TheFakeVenum

Then they refuse to annex mongolia because it wasn't part of the russian empire. The USSR was just the second Russian empire but with a dictatorship instead of a monarchy.


KasumiR

Absolutely and the current russia is literally their third Reich. Edit: First russian reich was the empire, second was Soviet Union, third is current russia, an explanation for specially gifted who got whooshed below and decided to suck a russian Wagner group micropenis. And yes, everyone here compares putin khuilo with Hitler, since 2008 when they ethnically cleansed two regions of Georgia (from Georgians), then invaded Ukraine in 2014 and restarted Crimean Tatar genocide. For someone living under a rock for a decade, tons of international protests worldwide with these comparison posters: [https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/putin-=-hitler](https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/putin-=-hitler)


[deleted]

No modern Russia is pretty much entirely under Putin but at least it’s not creating a genocide, right?


KasumiR

They built a literal concentration camp for Ukrainians in Donetsk: https://khpg.org/en/1608808789 Crimean Tatar print, TV and radio is literally banned by occupying russians in Crimea. See, they claim Crimea as "ethnically russian" so native brown Muslims living there are forbidden from speaking their own language, because Stalin didn't genocide them enough and putin wants the final solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars "Only" an ethnic genocide of native population, plus threatening Ukrainians with Holodomor #2 totally a different thing, right? Just modern russian army calling for second round of genocide they already commited years ago, killing more than Holocaust: https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/frankensstein/19869639/40167/40167_600.jpg


[deleted]

I see. TIL


NordicHorde

Lmfao, comparing modern Russia to Nazi Germany.


KasumiR

You whooshed badly, firstly, I said *their* third Reich, the third *russian* reich, not German one. Or you don't know what the word "reich" means? Google it. You never heard russians saying "moscow is the thirdRome"? It's THEIR claim, not mine. And if you got problems with comparing Putin to Hitler, tell them to current leader of United Kingdom: https://news.sky.com/story/russian-ambassador-brands-boris-johnsons-putin-hitler-comparison-insulting-11299806 I've seen videos of torture and mutilations done by russian soldiers, even Nazis weren't so inhumane. Russia is a mistake. Here's them burning civilians: https://www.rferl.org/a/in-syria-a-mutilated-corpse-video-evidence-and-new-scrutiny-for-russian-mercenaries-/30285242.html And the beheadings ordinary russian people did to Syrians that had the misfortune of not being an white ethnic Slav in Middle East: https://english.alaraby.co.uk/opinion/syrian-man-bludgeoned-hammer-russian-mercenaries You know russian army calls itself "Wagner group" for a reason, right? It's fuhrer's favorite composer. They also did Anschluss in Ukrainian Crimea I bet you find the torture porn videos these schweinhund make hilarious too, no?


Kir-chan

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46871801 As far as I know these camps are still running


Phoenix_314159

We don’t prefer literal Naziism to communism… The Fascist scare is often known to historians as World War II and resulted in one of the greatest shifts in power in human history. I love how the only way these guys can defend being communists is by saying that disliking communism is supporting fascism. The Fishhook Fallacy is strong with this one.


KasumiR

Nazis were seen as either the lesser evil, or just as bad as russians in Eastern Europe. But russia was always enemy #1. How many times they invaded Poland and Ukraine?


TheFelineWarrior

> disliking communism is supporting fascism That’s a commie tradition, they call everything they don’t like “fascist.” (See, e.g., the “anti-fascist defense wall” a.k.a. the Berlin Wall)


Just4TheMemez

Everyone was happy under Stalin, three were no gulags, there was no famine, everything was great. No sources because there aren't any(probably destroyed by CIA, as always). Seems like communism gets closer to beign a religion rather than ideology with every day.


Goatfucker10000

Even funnier is that USSR authorities admitted to the Katyn massacre , they can't blame it on "western propaganda"


Harsimaja

Closer? It has ever been thus, at least since the late 19th century and definitely extremely so since the 1920s


Entire-Job7656

While these people are morons, and clearly haven't met anyone who's lived in Poland during that era, there is a group of tankies that are far worse. There's people who genuinely believe Stalin was actually a fascist and that's why there were so many atrocities. They know these things happened, and that they were wrong but they can't bring themselves to criticize the system that gave him that kind of power. The irony is they don't see how similar they are to holocaust deniers and Neo Nazis. I really hope there's a day where tankies are judged the same way.


draka28

Wouldn’t hold by breath on that one unfortunately, I’m pretty sure communism won’t ever be as vilified in the public perception in the West as fascism until at least one prominent Western nation has suffered under its implementation. Then and likely only then will the family of socialist ideologies be permanently delegitimized among the Western left.


Entire-Job7656

Even then I don't know. It seems despite countless lives being lost in it's name people will do mental gymnastics at any cost to rationalize it as a valid system. I think it would take an atrocity in a western nation documented on the same level as the Holocaust. Even then I'm not sure. I do think we need to start teaching the horrors of communism much more robustly in the public school system in the US than we do now. I'm pretty torn about Ron DeSantis but I think the bill he implemented that requires the Florida curriculum to teach firsthand accounts of the victims of some of these regimes is a good thing. Ideally it will become a federal mandate at some point. I don't think it'll eliminate the tankies entirely but I think if we managed to do that for a generation it would really change how alot of people view Communism.


draka28

Couldn’t agree more that the public education system could be better utilized in the service of shaping civic perceptions of far left authoritarianism in the same way it has done for far right authoritarianism. I myself admittedly was once a open Marxist, I even fancied myself a modern “revolutionary” in the misguided naive mold of my then heroes Che Guevara and Leon Trotsky. I didn’t have my (in hindsight fairly obvious 😣😬) political/moral epiphany about the true monstrous nature of revolutionary Marxism until I was invited to visit a Victims of Communism Symposium at a humanitarian arts museum in Vancouver Canada. The point then clicked for me when my traversing of the maze hall they filled with artifacts and pictures from the various soviet Gulags reminded me entirely too much of the similar documented unpleasantries at the Cleveland Holocaust Museum.


Entire-Job7656

Funnily enough I had a similar situation. I've always been anti-communist though. I grew up in a largely Polish/Eastern European community so not alot of love for the hard left. While I generally disliked communism I didn't become staunchly anti-communist until I was in high school and started paying attention to the older people who either lived around me and managed to escape or immigrated after '91. I also had a friend in college who's parents and grandparents managed to get out of Cuba. Really made my blood boil hearing some of those stories.


Rjj1111

Even just meeting and talking to first generation polish immigrants will make you anti communism


Entire-Job7656

Yeah two of my cousins grew up there in the 70s and 80s. They had some real horror stories.


Rjj1111

The thing I remember was how private business was illegal but the authorities would turn a blind eye unless a jealous competitor ratted you out, and polish refugees being told to avoid the Soviet embassy in Ottawa because they would try to seize them


Entire-Job7656

My cousin's and their parents came over after '91 to the states to reunite with the part of the family that came here before the iron curtain and earlier. I remember them saying they rarely ate fruit regularly. They would sometimes walk 15 miles to get fruit in the next bigger town over because they didn't have any in the town they grew up in very often and they couldn't get a car. They also said they often wore clothes they outgrew because they couldn't get pants and shirts that fit regularly when they were going through growth spurts. The idea that we in the west ate three meals a day everyday blew their minds apparently. They're both a good bit older than me, I'm in my mid twenties, but they each have a couple kids that are a little bit younger than me. They always say after hearing stories about the old country they're thankful they were born in the US.


PaidHack

KAtYn MaSsacRe is NaZi pROpOgAnda. Effing clowns.


m0grady

You mean the land that was predominantly ethnic polish and historically part of Poland but was “given” to Russia when Germany, Austria and the czars divvied up Poland for their imperial ambitions?


draka28

Silly m0grady everyone knows it’s not really imperialism/colonialism when it’s done to other white people! 🥴🤌


Goatfucker10000

There are no sources from the russia that they have don't that so they mustn't have done that. They would never try to cover up their actions , its the west and their free journalism that tries to frame them !


draka28

“No sources cuz it’s late and I’m tired” what a fucking surprise. 😒


MyOpinionIsIgnorant

Russian empire losing land to the ethnicities liberating themselves from the empire??😳 Imperialism good when red apparently


KLCRoman

i don’t think his historical knowledge goes any further than 1914, because he forgets the part where the Polish controlled the land for nearly 250 years under the Polish-Lithuanian (although it says Lithuanian, Lithuanians were a minority compared to the Ruthenians/Byelorussians, Poles, and Galicians/Ukrainians) Commonwealth. Using the same logic, the germans invading italy (assuming that the individual in the photo is italian based off of both profile picture and username) was just reclaiming land from the germanic kingdom of lombardy or reclaiming land for the old austrian province of veneto. So today i learned nothing. Communists are still retarded.


Rjj1111

Even still Lithuanians ain’t Russian


Goatfucker10000

Fun fact - Katyn victims bodies were found by the Nazis during the Barbarossa operation. The USSR framed them and for about 40 years polish people couldn't learn the truth about those events Oh , and USSR THEM FUCKING SELVES ADMITTED TO IT


OhSoYouWannaPlayHuh

Also uhhhh no sources cuz I made it up lmao


Blu2806

Yes but did you know about the partition of Poland?


Bomber__Harris__1945

Germany's "invasion' of Poland was just reclaiming German land.


S234122

Meanwhike China conquering SCS.


Lifthras1r

Didn't the Nazi's allow foreign investigators to investigate Katyn just so no one could say it was propaganda


Kromovaracun

Katyn was exposed by the Nazis for political reasons (to try and drive apart the allies) but the documentary evidence is overwhelming.


AtomicPhantomBlack

No sources "cuz it's late" hmm