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unovayellow

That’s the whole point of the gravel institute, be the pragerU of leftists


CaressOfTrains

I think the harshest criticism of PragerU is that they allow and embrace content as crazy as from the Gravel. It's a very valid criticism. You should have standards. Yet accepting/embracing crazy and being 100% crazy is not the same.


unovayellow

I’d argue that PragerU is crazier, at least gravel presents a good looking world. PragerU tells you to eat crap and like it.


Edsast

I’ve still yet to form an opinion on Richard Wolf


YoNoSoyUnFederale

He’s a douche. Constantly apologizing for tankies but pretending he would never support an oppressive communist state (despite actively supporting the USSR and passively China). You don’t have to constantly bash them but you also don’t apologize that much for something you don’t support. He’s reflexively anti capitalist to a stupid degree that blames all of life’s ills on capitalism. He’s honestly just jealous, bitter and angry when I’ve heard him talk


TPGopher

Dick Wolf good (at least SVU and L&O proper have had overtly anti-CCP episodes), Dick Wolff bad


Satosuke

I actually had a shred of hope when I first heard about the formation of the Gravel Institute, thinking they might have the same style as PragerU but giving something far more strictly factual and intelligent. Boy was I quick to be disabused of that hope...


gregusmeus

I wonder if all of the tweet is untrue, or just the vast majority of it.


ginger2020

Libya did have a comparatively high standard of living under Gaddafi, largely owing to money from oil and natural gas, and his model of government initially yielded some good results in this regard after the overthrow of the monarchy. But he was also a fierce authoritarian and sponsor of international terrorism


gregusmeus

Erm, didn't Libya have slaves?


ginger2020

Under Gaddafi, migrants were often subject to detention and forced labor. Worse, it’s believed that Gaddafi himself often kept women as sex slaves. When he was finally ousted from power and met his ignominious end, slavery got even worse in the country as local warlords became involved in illegal slavery


airborneisdead

I'm not sure about before but Libya has a slave trade going on right now though.


Infinite_Weekend_909

Always has.


Salmon_Crusader

He is dead so they got that right


gregusmeus

Wasn't killed by Americans though, he was lynched by his own countrymen.


Guvnuh_T_Boggs

Guess the electricity just wasn't cheap enough 🙃


Salmon_Crusader

Ha lol


Edsast

I mean it was deleted lmao


huehooman

It’s approximately true. Libya was ruled by a mostly based existentialist before an administration led by a Rockefeller republican in blackface with a postmenopausal psychopath in the state dept ruined everything


Special_Platypus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Revenge A Libyan holiday dedicated to a massive pogrom against Jews and Italians mind you.


Glassavwhatta

Holy Shit, i knew gadaffi was bad but i didn't know about that.


fandral20

*based


Klutzy-Ad-6528

I'm so glad that the US killed him to stop him from doing those evil things! Just look at how peaceful Libya is now! There isn't a single bit of anti-Semitism to be found.


CalvinCoolidg3

Yeah because there’s no Jews left?


WillRoosevelt

Can’t be antisemitic if there’s no Jews✊👨🏻


YoNoSoyUnFederale

You can disagree with the campaign to oust Ghadaffi and it’s consequences (BTW we weren’t alone in the campaign and Europe led us into it more than anything) and I do, but at the same time realize that the guy mismanaged the economy and was a brutal authoritarian nut job. It’s cringe when people on the right Simp for Pinochet because he hated communists and left Chile with a pretty good economy when he was a brutal facist and it’s cringe when socialists Simp for every leftist strongman that left their country in ruins and oppressed their people because they nationalized things and hated capitalism and/or the West


Special_Platypus

Exactly, I refuse to sleep with tyranny from all the Latin American coups just because I am opposed to communism. Psychotic dictatorships are psychotic dictatorship whether it is under a nationalist, communist, or theocratic flag.


Klutzy-Ad-6528

[Here's a list of things that Gaddafi implemented in his country.](https://external-preview.redd.it/ruPGxiNsBhxDA42MsFYRbUO7xFNlEr09H_5IKciSvMc.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9c042e98dbeef8cecdafcb24b31162e625736016) I support him because of this, not just because of some nationalization policy. Gaddafist Libya had the highest quality of life in all of Africa.


YoNoSoyUnFederale

Literally all of that is the result of nationalizing the oil industry and using the proceeds to fund welfare programs and that’s fine if you can sustain it and you’re otherwise running things ethically, but the dude was dictator who stole from his people constantly, oppressed the opposition out of existence and spread terror on a global scale which isolated them from the rest of the world when it came to trade. He also purely focused on one industry (oil) which is unstable and asking for trouble. Dude declared war on Chad and got his ass kicked by some dudes in suped up Hondas to. IDK how much all of what you posted actually came to pass either, it’s just a FB post from some random (assuredly) Libyan dude. Even if he did get some of those benchmarks he inherited a small population and a shit load of money like Saudi Arabia. If you keep that money in country instead of it getting siphoned away like other countries have had happen you should be able to afford these things. That said they had a lower standard of living than Gulf States even before their fall so I really don’t see him as a great leader whose accomplishments overshadow his faults. Dude was an iron fist on top of a boiling pot and that’s about all I’ll give him


[deleted]

[удалено]


YoNoSoyUnFederale

He nationalized oil decades before he was killed. I guarantee it pissed off oil executives and they’re never lacking in power,but the guy went out of his way to support terrorism around the world for like 40 years. He had very very few friends internationally. He only got scared after Saddam got taken out and that’s when he started selling everyone that he’d previously funded out. Mismanagement came to roost later and his people rose up, no doubt helped along by Western powers who wanted a friendlier government to take over (Sarkozy the French President had a bribery scheme with Gaddafi and a lot of people thought he supported the war to cover it up)


WalbrechtBayern

I mean there isn’t. Gaddafi having gotten rid of all the Jews and all. Even Hitler wasn’t that thorough.


FBZOMBiES

They don't actually care about Libya. This is just another stale "America bad" take. Middle/upper class leftists just love telling victims of dictatorships just how good they had it and how its big bad America's fault.


ws31598

I don't like to kinkshame but yeah they really get into shitting on America lol


NordicHorde

But this really is a case of America fucking up. Libya is now way worse off than it was under Gaddafi. Was he a brutal dictator? Yes, absolutely. But removing him left a power vacuum that caused the country to descend into chaos.


mattumbo

The Europeans were the ones initially pushing for intervention though, the French especially due to their interests in Mali and Francophone Africa as a whole. The US was happy to help, but the intervention primarily served European interests and we shouldn’t forget that. This wasn’t Iraq where the US dragged NATO in.


CaressOfTrains

Obama fucked up for sure, but it was because of his half assed "lead from behind" thing. Alternative to current situation is not some imaginary paradise in Libya. It would be something much much worse than now. Just look at Syria for how the alternative path plays out.


NordicHorde

I never said the alternative would be some paradise. But I don't see how you can get much worse than civil war and literal open slave markets.


CaressOfTrains

There was already this civil war and huge rebellion. Gaddafi was using his ground attack planes and other advanced weapons to massacre civilians. That's what the intervention put a stop to by taking these advanced weapons from him. At best you could say that Gaddafi could have possibly terrorized the people into fear and meekness and that it would have been better than now. Here comes the Syria comparison. It is much much worse in Syria.


NordicHorde

The reason Syria is so fucked is BECAUSE of foreign intervention. The Libyan civil war was relatively simple. You had Gaddafi and his loyalists against the anti-Gaddafi rebels. Gaddafi was almost certainly going to crush the rebels if not for NATO air strikes. The Syrian civil war is an utter cluster fuck in comparison. You have Assad and the government backed by Russia fighting ISIS, the Kurds and a bunch of other militias. You have the US and Western Europe supporting the Kurds and other moderate militias who are fighting the government, ISIS and other militias. Then you have Turkey who's supporting their own militias who are fighting the government, the Kurds and ISIS. And you have ISIS who's fighting everybody. So it's just a massive mess that has dragged on for years.


Aftermath52

Was he even that brutal? Most of his extrajudicial killings were inside the military and government. I haven’t heard much about civilian massacres.


KaChoo49

The US didn’t kill Gaddafi, he was lynched by a mob of his own people after they dragged him out of a drain pipe


llliiiiiiiilll

We were involved...too lazy to look it up but we were supporting the guys that took him out which was unwise in the extreme


Purecorn

Yeah he was found by whom and this was orchestrated by the us government


Klutzy-Ad-6528

After a US drone sent a missile at his car which made it unusable which lead to the US-funded groups going to him and killing him. If someone kicks a child out in the middle of a snow storm and the kid is dead in the morning do you consider it the fault of the person who kicked the kid out or the weather? You don't have to be the person to personally stop someone's heart to be accountable for their death.


WalbrechtBayern

If you are an assraping serial killer like gaddafi and your victims pay you back, that’s on you. Not the kid who spiked the tires so you couldn’t get away to your Swiss bank account.


ColonelHans

Wowiee another edgelord who thinks they're funny with the marx reddit avatar


ws31598

>This tweet has been deleted Cowards!


AlanDaDJ

“Guys, Hitler wasn’t that bad, he helped Germany recover!!!” - 🤓 “Saddam Hussein did nothing wrong, cuz social programs and sanctions!!” - 🤓 Literally, these idiots probably benefit from liberty, yet defend dictators


train2000c

So now we have a right wing populist propaganda channel and a left wing populist propaganda channel. When can we have a tacotube propaganda channel to even things out?


Devgru-WM

If there’s one think Libya was known for, it was their healthcare


TheManWithQwerty

Gravel and PragerU are both shit


bluepsycho65

True


phrog17

Um, quit a bit was left out there lol


DoIt2It

Whooboy, there’s some really legitimate criticism of US involvement in the overthrow of Qaddafi, but this ain’t it, chief.


[deleted]

I have family in Libya. Gaddafi was lynched by his own people after decades of murderous repression. These people are a cult.


Tatankafisch

net welfare in lybia was better unser Gaddafi, bc of his oil dealings. Thats a fact. Does that mean everything Was good? No some ppl were worse of especially minorities. Wierd that the left doesnt care about them.


draka28

There often proclaimed defensiveness of minorities of all stripes is more a optical illusion a deliberately manipulative act of political theater 🎭than a demonstration of any genuine concern for their interests. It just allows them the quite useful politically expedient ability to mislabel and subsequently dismiss any and all of their political opposition as being “far right extremists!” Making them the de facto “good guys” in any narratively framed public debate.


Igo2south10701

Never mind the whole rape torture totalitarian rule thing… Also, I’m sure the data coming out of that regime was impeccably accurate with zero manipulation to paint themselves in a favorable light. In related news all North Koreans have developed the ability to fly without the aid of technology.


zapp517

But… the rebels killed him. They got it on video.


chopperhead2011

Didn't Gaddafi give the go ahead for his folks in the Libyan embassy in the UK to literally mow down civvies with machine guns? Like, literal light machine guns?


alexbigshid

I'll never understand how these E-Commies will gladly turn a blind eye to a literal military dictatorship that used slave labour because "hIgH liTeRAcY" and "fReE HeAlThCaRe"


Alphabeane

Look how the Hitler improved Nazi Germany. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Bruttosozialprodukt_im_dt._Reich_1925-1939.svg/1280px-Bruttosozialprodukt_im_dt._Reich_1925-1939.svg.png In 1945 the US drove him to suicide.


Jantomo

>”Libya under Gadaffi had some of the highest rates of life expectancy, literacy, and per capita GDP in all of Africa.” That’s not saying much.


The_Nut_Shit

Tbh cpuld have been great if gravel institute made content focused on getting people to vote Democrat instead of circlejerking itself for it’s cringy socialist audience. Prager U lies and makes the right look good, Gravel Institute lies and makes the left look shit.


Edsast

I liked their initial stuff like about the civil war but then it was mostly pandering to their audience on the far left


The_Nut_Shit

Also Prager U always has a call for action and presents a conservative solution to get people to vote conservative come election time; Gravel Institute solution basically is just go on twitter and yell


GeneralTwelve

I love how they keep repaeting the same shit: -Free Healthcare -Free Education -Women's Rights Like it's something that can't exist in Capitalism XD Btw. I hate how Commies claim that we are Straw Manning them by Saying "Goverment doing Stuff" Yet they claim it's Socialist success eveytime goverment is doing Stuff and it's succesful at it like: Bolivia, China. But when we have Countries with Actual Socialist Policies like Burma they say it's "Goverment doing Stuff" Because the "Burmese Way to Socjalizm" Failed. The reason is simple Commies are Desperate at proving they system Works so they keep Changing the Definition from "Common ownership in the means of Production" and "Goverment doing Stuff" Whanever it suits them.


CrazyHimbo

Gadaffi wasn’t killed by the US because he was a ‘socialist’, he was killed because he was a Nationalist. To be fair he was an awful guy, however, he was only killed because he was nationalistic and made his country less dependent on a globalist system.


Syndicate909

“PragerU if it was socialist” is literally what the Wikipedia page for Gravel Institute says


allanwilson1893

The US didn’t even kill him, the French did.


vmedhe2

Were gonna ignore the whole civil war and Arab spring thing I see...


TheSussiestChan

Lmfao don’t forget it also had a very public human slave trade. You can buy a human for $200 in libya. The US intervention didn’t help AT ALL mostly because it was lead by killary and she obviously didn’t give a flying fuck about libya and had ulterior motives for being there (selling weapons to our enemies) and as a result you can now go and literally buy a human on the streets like you would cattle or livestock. It’s disgusting and was happening wayyyy before US intervention so yeah, context.


llliiiiiiiilll

Well I have to agree with the gravel institute this time. He wasn't great but we should have left him be.


IsThisReallyNate

Libya is just objectively worse now by almost every standard, of course Gaddafi was a murderous and anti Semitic dictator, but it’s been turned from one of the most developed countries in Africa into a living hell for most Libyans. Their infrastructure is shit, their economy is collapsed except for a tiny sector that’s dominated by foreign corporations, warlords and mercenaries get to go around killing people, and there’s open air slave markets. People are just out in the open selling themselves into slavery because it’s that bad. The US and it’s allies did everything they could to make it more chaotic, and tried to kill Gaddafi directly, the fact that someone else did the killing doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible.


fishlord05

Lol I bet they deleted that shit


ginger2020

It also was near the bottom of a number of human rights indexes, and sponsored international terrorist organizations.


OriginSport

Gravel likes to act like it’s some kind of savior but it’s just the same thing different side of the aisle


Wnowak3

Libya continues to have all of those things


draka28

Hhhmm 🤔 🤨 🧐 Noopee 👎!!!!! I’m pretty sure it was the veritable angry revolting mob of Gaddafi’s own starving murderously enraged formerly oppressed subjects that killed him!


pupu12o09

So just ordinary Praguer u


TheOneWhoWil

Not much of a fan of Praeger U. It's propaganda.


DarkReaver1337

The US weren’t even the ones to kill him, lol.


BathroomGhost

Gravel institute aren’t commies lmfao.


TheSwecurse

He was a dictator, and he did deserve punishment for crimes against humanity. But... Is the lybia today really any better? Sometimes, and I had hate to say it, a country just isn't ready for democracy


DoubleCrossover

I got cancer from reading that


Monneymann

Also kept the head of a political rival he killed in his fridge.


Attila_ze_fun

Gravel institute is social democrat not socialist. That said what they wrote about Libya is absolutely true. You can argue that Libya had perfomed a lot of denouncable actions, but those are nothing compared to the atrocities comitted by western European or north American countries at the time or even today. Yet I doubt people here hate Churchill or Pierre Mendes-France.