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Dachande1324

When will they realize their ass is not a valid source of information


TheCatofDeath

That would require them to be capable of rational thought... Which would mean they wouldn't be commies in the first place.


PapalanderII

It's funny how a book on simple economics can cure most tankies


CJGamer011235813

Lol even a 4th grader with dementia knows that communism is not going to work


MartitimeGeneral666

There is a reason people turn to these ideologies and it’s better to try to understand from their perspective than to dismiss any ideology as completely illogical


SuppiluliumaX

Great book on that: Socialism sucks by Benjamin Powell and Robert Lawson. Not only informative, but fun too


BlindMaestro

It scares the fuck out of me how easily leftists on this site spread straight up lies.


KuTUzOvV

most of this (most because for example, oh the irony space travel was INVENTED by a nazi scientist) info is true, but like most propaganda statistics, it is placed on this "poster" without context. 0% unemployment isn't always good, especially when 10 of those employed are doing the job for 4 and 90% of them are stealing from their workplace because nobody cares if something gets stolen (something regular if everything is common, aka NOT MINE in the simple understanding of human mind)


PsychoTexan

That would require them to get their head out of it first.


whoviable

Well I hope this is satire but I've definitely seen these points made in earnest unfortunately. They, of course, conveniently leave out the literal collapse of the Soviet Union coinciding with "turning to capitalism". I can't tell if it's willful ignorance or complete propaganda.


Kir-chan

The Soviet Union collapsed because of the CIA /s


dickcooter

So you're telling me the USSR couldn't even properly defend itself against a foreign intelligence organisation?


Quiklok05

But capitalism iphone venezuela a bilion dead


PapalanderII

I know you're joking, but for the love of me I don't understand how a tankie can say this as a response to someone bringing up Yezhovschina or the Great Leap Forward


crawl_of_time

It’s the adult version of sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly chanting “LA LA LA LA LA” so you can’t be told you’re wrong.


Kir-chan

It's the left version of holocaust denial


seffay-feff-seffahi

The CIA didn't even know the USSR was going to collapse. To think that it was the CIA instead of the implosion of the CPSU and the power struggles between Gorbachev, Yeltsin, the nationalists, and the Party hardliners is idiotic.


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Affectionate_Meat

We’re still a nation though


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Affectionate_Meat

The USSR didn’t exist for 100 years and America has been actively worked against since 1775 and are still going strong. The USSR just sucked


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Affectionate_Meat

Ah: you’re just dumb. I know that’s reductive and not a real argument but like…yeah it’s just kinda dumb buddy


KillMeIfYuGay

You completely ignore the fact that the US helped the USSR during ww2 by sending materials through the middle east. The USSR was losing the war, with the nazis making it all the way to the suburbs of moscow. If it weren’t for the country you hate so much, the precious USSR would get taken over by the nazis. Then it would have not been the “atomic superpower” you talk about.


nurd_on_a_computer

The Nazis really made it that far? Also, the US didn't give the USSR its nukes. But it's not like it was all USSR scientists that pulled it off, either. They used many captured Nazi scientists.


Hotdogmaniac7

Elaborate on that


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Hotdogmaniac7

Your username is literally gorbaschevshammer, your argument is invalid


Karl_the_stingray

Nah, Gorbachev was the best thing to happen to USSR


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Hotdogmaniac7

Those Pizza Hut commercials were bussin


YoNoSoyUnFederale

LMAO they threw absolutely everything they had at it. CIA, FBI, NSA and they still couldn’t show the collusion they were so sure was there. Pretty much every ‘Russian’ was in someway affiliated with our own intelligence services or the DNC. IDK if the fact that’s they mostly got away with their nonsense speaks well or Ill of them in terms of their power but the idea that Trump was a Russian patsy is dumb as shit


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YoNoSoyUnFederale

Yeah ok. I’m sure there were just about there but that dastardly Trump hid it all at just the last minute. What Russian was it? Was it the woman at Trump Tower who met with the guy in charge of the same opposition research firm attacking Trump literally a day before and after the meeting? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/fusion-gps-official-met-with-russian-operative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.amp Was it that super scary oligarch that Manafort consulted with? That same one that the US state department listed as an asset? https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/447394-key-figure-that-mueller-report-linked-to-russia-was-a-state-department Maybe it was through Carter Paige. He was clearly the back door means of communication. Oh wait he was a CIA asset and they hid this from a FISA court? https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-carter-page-russia-b53360172f2fcbd8bc064265baa449e7 But surely the impetus for this investigation, the illustrious super spy Christopher Steele was completely above board and without reproach. Oh wait the guy was colluding with Clinton since day one? He based his dossier on uncorroborated biased bullshit? https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-arrests-john-durham-9d2344081036235309346ad95b14a8bc You’ll say “Oh no but Mueller’s investigation is totally separate from these shenanigans. He was a model of integrity and this had nothing to do with” and I’ll say bullshit. When such major planks of the collusion narrative fall apart like they do and Mueller has to say “Oh but these Russians we never caught did the colluding, not all of these people that we told you were Russian assets/operatives. You just can’t see them.” It’s insulting stupid bullshit.


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[deleted]

The post is satire I'm sure, but the commentors and that sub aren't unfortunately. Some have made some good points, but most of it is just the usual same points they always make.


NHpatsfan95

I don’t even know if this here is satire. Some time ago on Twitter I got in a heated argument with a serious tankie who actually believed in a similar vein to whatever this thing is. And yes, I wasted my time doing so.


Shitpost19

Yeah but you also gotta understand that these are the same people who think that Gorbachev was a ‘fascist’ for bringing Perestroika and Glasnost to the Soviet Union like it was a bad thing.


whoviable

Right?! I think a lot of people mistake Russian yearning for the Soviet Union as a desire for communism. People forget the chaos that the opening up, breaking apart, and collapsing had on the average Russian, so it's understandable to miss the "old days". But tankies hyper focus on the communist part like it was a success lol


P1917

Exclude everything that does not fit thier utopian dream.


LOLTROLDUDES

Wasn't Gorbachev the Dengist guy with a thing on his head who came on my provincial television in the 20th century once?


xEternal_Wanderer

The emojis are next-level cringe.


mekkeron

Sadly it's not a satire. These are standard talking points of every post-Soviet commie. You see, in their reality Holodomor didn't happen and there was no casual racism against African students in USSR.


[deleted]

I know it's a bad screenshot but I am at work and bored right now, so no nice PC screenshot today.


comfort_bot_1962

Here's a joke! Why did the picture go to jail? Because it was framed.


Izbitoe_ebalo

I think at this point reddit should add some neural network to automatically crop reddit screenshots/black bars.


nurd_on_a_computer

2nd fastest growing economy. So... what's the 1st?


[deleted]

I think that depends on what time during the soviet union we're talking. For most of it though, the US, but Japan was growing even faster in the 80s and 90s I believe when they have their huge economic revival. Correct me if I'm wrong


nurd_on_a_computer

Either way...


blissfromloss

So then clearly Japan is the best economic system. American Shogunate when?


Jaymoney72004

-Most of Europe’s infrastructure was destroyed after WW2 while the Soviets moved their infrastructure east. -Forced to work -This is absolutely false, there was homelessness -The US provided the logistics for WW2 and the British destroyed German infrastructure, the Soviets were able to get to Berlin first. -No that’s the Nazis -Literally caused famines in Eastern Europe -Soviet economists stated that the SU had a slightly lower caloric intake than the US although it should’ve been higher due to the much colder climate and a younger population. -Stalin deported the tartars and Russification was done throughout the eastern bloc. -Sexual inequality still existed, although less so than in the west -Free education that was also propaganda -99% literacy rate amongst the urban centers, in the countryside the literacy rate was still much lower, the same is true in China today -The US was literally right behind the Soviet Union in doctors per capita. -Eliminated poverty because everyone is in poverty -Doubled life expectancy by industrializing, not a fault of communism. -1991: Boris Yeltsin’s shock therapy was as poorly thought out as the Great Leap Forward, you can’t immediately move a country from a command economy to a free market. Deng was much more successful in this regard and did much more for China than Mao. This is a poorly thought out commie green text which has been constantly debunked for as long as it existed.


juhisO_o

Also Life expectancy started rising in the eastern bloc countries after the fall of soviet union


NHpatsfan95

The eastern bloc did a great job with integrating their economies with Europe. The ex-Soviet states, those were more baffling. Other than the Baltic states and *maybe* Ukraine they made no real effort in creating modern democracies.


The3rdBert

Those nations may be independent but still fall into the Russian sphere of influence, so it has been harder to integrate.


SweaterKetchup

Nazis did not invent space travel lol, they just made a rocket that went way high up


Jaymoney72004

The V2 did pass the Kármán line, meaning it was the first man made object in space and the first sub orbital flight.


SweaterKetchup

Thats not space ***travel*** tho, thats just a thing in space. I think “space travel” refers to someone *in* space, but ig that’s personal interpretation


Jaymoney72004

space travel /spās ˈtravəl/ noun travel through outer space. By definition the Nazis did in fact invent space travel.


Affectionate_Meat

And even if not by that they sure did a whole lot of the rocket work for the US and USSR


hippyengineer

A Russian cosmonaut and an American astronaut meet on the moon. One says to the other: “So do we speak Russian or English?” The other replies: “Brother it is just us two up here. We can speak German.”


Affectionate_Meat

Nice


WinPeaks

The term "air travel" would never be used to describe me throwing a paper airplane through the air. Correct? So why would the situation you described be different exactly?


Jaymoney72004

Because traveling through space is very different from traveling in the atmosphere. Unmanned space missions have and will always be the main form of space travel. To travel through space all you need to do is pass the Kármán line, which is 100 km and something the V2 did twice, first passing 176 km and then 189 km. To put this into perspective the New Shepard, Blue Origins rocket, only has gone up to 101 km, just barely scratching space, but it’s still considered space travel as they traveled through space. As for your comparison it’s more apt to compare it to a drone, which is considered air travel.


WinPeaks

You basically just said "ugh, because it's different". The V2 was a missile, not a craft. No one traveled in one just as no one traveled on my paper airplane, and though they both "traveled", neither are instances of space-travel or air-travel. That is the distinction and it's an important one. The first guy to throw a stick in the water and watch it float into the horizon didn't invent sea-travel.


Jaymoney72004

The first rockets to put satellites in orbit were also ballistic missiles. No matter how you put it, the Nazis invented space travel, unless you also want to discredit both the Sputnik and explorer programs. The Soviets had been the first to reach orbit and put a man into space, but they weren’t the ones to invent space travel nor the first ones to reach space.


WinPeaks

I do. Neither were space travel. Who the fuck calls the Sputnik or Explorer satellite launches instances of space travel?


videki_man

Oh how much I hate that calorie intake stuff. The CIA study they always use as a source actually states that most of the calorie in the Soviet diet comes from grain products (bread) and potato, but their potein intake (=meat) is far far lower than that of the American population. There was always meat shortage in the Soviet Union from its foundation till its collapse. *The average daily calorie intake in the Soviet Union is: grain products and potates 44%; sugar 13%; dairy and eggs 11%; fats and oils 17%; meat and fish 8%; and other products 7%.* *The American consumes daily: grain and potatoes 26%; sugar 17%; dairy and eggs 12%; fats and oils 18%; meat and fish 21%; and other products 6%.* *Americans eat more fish and more sugar, more dairy products and eggs, and more fats and oils and less grain the average Soviet citizen, and consumes more calories.* Yes, the Americans consumed more sugar (surprise!!) because they had sugary drinks - something that not existed in Soviet Union for a long time because they simply couldn't have produced enough. And the Americans ate less potato because they had FUCKING MEAT instead.


stuff_gets_taken

I just love how they always scream "CIA propaganda!" But when there's one single report by the CIA that seemingly supports their claim it's suddenly legitimate.


ni2sssssssss

sources? /gen


zapp517

The 1991 switch to capitalism only uses stats for Russia, not the whole Soviet Union, even if the stats aren’t doctored.


rokkerboyy

Also let's not ignore the fact that complete governmental overhaul resulting in economic and social collapse is pretty much guaranteed in this case.


stuff_gets_taken

Also the time didn't stop in 1991. Yes, it went badly for the eastern bloc for a while, but soon after they are doing better than ever before.


gregusmeus

Clearly satire from a comedian.


[deleted]

This is commies we are talking about. I can make bait for them and they would use it and uphold it as the gospel truth because they are that stupid. That's pretty much what's going on here. There are some actual bits of debate in the comments but most of it is just commies praising communism and the usual "USA bad" bs.


gregusmeus

I didn't mean you, I meant whoever created the meme.


[deleted]

Well yeah. That's pretty obvious. But the sub and users aren't treating it as such. It's hilarious they buy straight up satire.


gregusmeus

Lock a communist in a room by themself and sooner or later they'll beat themself up.


[deleted]

They'll probably kill themselves because they'd become convinced they are a CIA spy.


[deleted]

That would drop unemployment rate from 100 to 0. See, comunism is better!


[deleted]

Oh shit, he's right. Big brain communism time


lazzerfisk

Poe's law strikes again!


god-of-bud

Stalin literally caused the famines in Ukraine and Easter Europe wtf are they talking about


jyri_ratas_official

Debunkable with 1 sentence: if the USSR was so great, how come it only lasted short of 70 years.


Sappies

“Sexual inequality” nope. And calorie count doesn’t mean the food tastes good or is good for you, the education wasn’t free exactly either


ReddeningStars

The irony is that the calorie count is based on a CIA report. The CIA, aka the org Tankies claim is just the disseminator of western propaganda.


Harsimaja

I understand this one least of all. The US has if anything *too* high a calorie count, and has since the 70s-80s… How on earth did Breadline Land have more? It’s not like that region has ever been statistically obese (some people in charge aside)… Was pretty much every single person doing heavy manual labour to offset it then…?


[deleted]

There was less of it in the military but that was about it. At home the women were expected to do what women were expected to do in the 20th century, cook, clean, do general housework and raise the kids etc.


HollowLegMonk

When I was a young kid, I was watching something on TV about the Berlin Wall with my dad. I made the observation that if the USSR is so great, why do they have to build a giant wall with armed guards just to keep people from *leaving* the country, when here in the US we need to build walls with armed guards to keep people from coming *into* the country. My dad said, “Well son, people love freedom because it allows them to make their own choices in life.” That always stuck with me all these years later.


[deleted]

President Kennedy made alot of good points in Berlin about the Wall when he went there a couple years after it was raised.


HollowLegMonk

Yeah I wasn’t born yet when it happened but I remember seeing a documentary about that on PBS. It was about the entire Cold War after WWII up until today, but that JFK speech stuck out in my head for sure. I just find it interesting that even at a young age I could see that liberal democracies are the best form of government for a free and open society. Far from perfect, but the best option for living a good life.


Iggleyank

This is always the thing that drives me battiest about people today trying to reimagine the Eastern Bloc as the workers’ paradise it was promised to be. They had to build a *literal wall* to keep their own people from escaping. How do you just hand wave that part away? It is striking that the Berlin Wall was up for 28 years, and it’s been down for 32 years now. Barely anyone under 40 has any memory of it. I understand it’s not top of mind to the average young Westerner who starts buying into pro-USSR propaganda. But goodness, can’t these folks crack open a book once in a while? Heck, read a Wikipedia entry.


Benatovadasihodi

You know whats worse. You people think only of the wall. But in reality the entire Iron Curtain was like that. Those guards were armed for a reason. They were expected and did kill people trying to escape. Fuck tankies.


LastMan0ut

Didn’t the Soviet Union literally put gays in Gulags?


[deleted]

Stalin did, yes. At first, Lenin actually decriminalized it, but only in the Ukrainian SSR and Russia itself. After Stalin came to power, he recriminalized it, claimed that being gay was "fascist", and threw 1,000 people a day in gulags for it. It remained a criminal offense until the abolishment of the USSR. Kruschev lessened the amount of gay people going into gulags but it still happened, and Gorbachev stopped the gulags altogether so by proxy gays stopped going as well.


LastMan0ut

Of course. But didn’t the republic decriminalise it to? The one that Lenin overthrew?


[deleted]

They didn't believe it should be illegal but I don't think they had the time to actually write it into law with the whole WW1 and Russian Civil War thing


LastMan0ut

Of course of course. Speaking of which, did you know the last offensive went so badly it was reported some soldiers and officers just dropped their weapons and started walking home


Bombonel69

\>2nd fastest growing economy Well, which was the first one, jimbo?


icy_ticey

The emojis make me want to kill myself


Leechick_2007

Ended sexual inequality by killing everyone


golddragon88

Ended famibe- are you sure this is not a joke


[deleted]

It is a joke. It satire that they eat up because they buy stupid ass propaganda because that's what the commies do best. I will not include any comments nor encourage anyone to go to that particular sub and engage with them negatively as I have seen some do so far. I don't condone any kind of brigading against the commies, which is really a fruitless endeavor as you cannot change their viewpoints and you will just get banned for brigading.


vikstarleo123

Wasn’t the USSR composed of multiple states, that all dissolved into their own country once the USSR collapsed?


bookem_danno

>2nd fastest growing economy of the 20th century When? Consistently throughout? Who was #1? > 0% unemployment With everybody happily doing exactly what they always dreamed of for their career, I’m sure. I thought work was demeaning, anyway? > 0% homelessness Press X to doubt > Saved the world from Nazi Germany With significant American lend-lease. Not to mention the horrors they themselves inflicted on their advance to Berlin. Just because the Soviets were fighting the bad guys doesn’t mean that they weren’t also bad guys. > Invented space travel Because they launched Sputnik first? Didn’t the German V2 rocket skim the upper atmosphere? I’ll admit I don’t know enough about the space race to critique this one. > End the centuries-long cycle or famine in Eastern Europe Holodomor? What holodomor? Even if it did happen, they probably deserved it! Fucking Kulaks… > Higher calorie consumption than USA Again, when? And what exactly were they consuming? > Ended racial inequality By continuing the same Russification processes started by the Tsars. Can’t have inequality if everybody’s Russian! > Free Education Don’t know enough about this one to critique. > 99% literacy rate Is that really worse than capitalist countries of the era? By how much? > Most doctors per capita in the world Good doctors who are well-trained? Were other countries in the world experiencing a doctor shortage? You only need so many doctors. > Eliminated poverty Lol. Lmao. > Doubled life expectancy Life expectancy went up worldwide during the 20th century as infant mortality plummeted. I’m not saying the 1991 transition away from the Soviet model was comfortable, but political upheavals never are. Most of these “facts” are spurious anyway.


Jantomo

V2 is usually viewed as the first man made object to enter space.


JimmySnuggleBear

most doctors per capita in the world...most of which ended up fleeing to US and europe because of the oppression and lack of social mobility, like its happening with cuba right now.


NiceEthanoob

technically if there is no one working or jobs there's no unemployment


PunishedBagel

> invented space travel 🥱 I fucking despise communists but it just gets so boring sometimes.


gordo65

This is the sort of thing they were saying back in the 1950s, before Khrushchev exposed Stalin’s crimes and lies. Note they’re just pretending that no information about the Soviet Union has been uncovered since 1953.


WhyOhio69420

I mean doesn’t a lot of this stuff happens if you switch economic structures


A_Nerd__

If Russia stayed capialist, it wouldn't have suffered as severely as it did under Lenin and Stalin and would've been able to stop Nazi way earlier during Barbarossa.


gadzikk

Just because there's something even shittier than communism (russian oligarchy) doesnt mean communism is better than capitalism .


Micky_Whiskey

“Saved the world from Nazi Germany” rofl. Yeah, they where one player out of the 4 major powers. The Soviet Union would of fallen really quick without the land lease act.


_R_0_b_3_

Some one show them this article: https://bearkunin.medium.com/soviet-union-facts-and-fictions-part-2-homelessness-famine-and-food-cada7f20784f It debunks pretty much everything said


TeamForknife2

99% literacy always gets me, could it be because the fucking illiterate ones got shot dead or dissappearing into gulags


NHpatsfan95

But if it did so good why did it collapse?


raswes91

Gave me a good chuckle 😅🤣


_WillyTheWaffle_

Almost as if the collapse of a country leads to immediate problems


TheOneWhoWil

I hate how they're targeting the youth. Thankfully at my school all the commies are the weird kids.


doitchdoyin

The there's no way that post isn't ironic


SowingSalt

Let's ignore that the end of the extractive Soviet empire lost their colonies in Easter Europe.


PanzerTitus

Ahh yes, Commies saying that Communism works by spouting actual USSR propaganda as truth. Source that it works : Their ass.


ironicart

The emojis sell it


Cyberzombie

Even the things that are true aren't true. No homelessness? Sure! Your new home is in the Gulag Archipelago. Soviet Prison: it's not just for dissidents any more. (tm)


APugDealer

It just happened like that. They just switched to capitalism and that's when the bad statistics showed up. It's because they switched to capitalism and definitely not because the collapse of the dictatorship brought out the facts


Orphanboys

They so many doctors in fact that Stalin was crushed under all the weight of doctors, and that’s how he died


ilovepolenta

Doctor's plot. Illegalisation of lgbt+ and criminalității and încarceration. So much for sexual equality and most doctors.


NotANinjask

A whole article debunking it. https://bearkunin.medium.com/soviet-union-facts-and-fictions-part-1-the-economy-2a79ff1013a7


DiegotheEcuadorian

You know the world saved itself from the Nazis right? It was a combined effort from the Soviets, British and Americans. Also they made it illegal to be unemployed or homeless, granted they did have state hotels but next to no job security or rights for their working conditions. Poverty was still a thing too, whenever the government couldn’t provide people suffered. And that calorie consumption is complete bs, famines came and went constantly, even up to Kruschev. It only got better cause tech got better.also most of the growing economy, and I mean a fat chunk of it, was dedicated exclusively to the military.


VerySpicyLocusts

Well they did solve racial and sexual inequity, they all equally had no rights


daspaceasians

Yeah... this conveniently leaves out the fact that the USSR opened up its first toilet paper plant in 1969. Also, wasn't the quality of doctors pretty iffy in that country? I also have a professor at my university who was born in the Soviet Union. She lived there in the 1980's. Every time some student would make a comment about how great communism was, she would roll her eyes, sigh quite loudly before saying something about how naïve and foolish today's youth are when it comes to Communism. Even funnier is when you know that one of her main historical specialization is Contemporary China.


[deleted]

Anyone I have ever met that lived in or had family live in a former USSR or Warsaw pact nation during the cold War has a deep hatred for communism.


Xx_SiCkO_CuMSHOTz_xX

Yeah bro if i move to the USSR im gonna die age 190


m0grady

I think Ukraine might have something to say about ending famine.


Sea-Opportunity4683

I just… I just can’t. I can’t even.


jackclark9517

Everything looks really good when you erase the bad from your history and murder anyone who talks about it. “US graciously gives native populations huge expanses of land, improves fitness after leading massive trek across country.” See just made the trail of tears look good.


BannedOnTwitter

I dont think turning to capitalism is the only thing that happened in 1991


Alexandruym

-Ended racial inequality. Probably by killing all the races


sgtpenis511

It's almost as if nations face instability after a major change in government


jaycntct

You could basically say the same thing about nazi germany before and after the war lol


ender-marine

It’s ironic edit: I hope saw this in my neighborhood during the election along with Green Party propaganda


WorkingCombination29

If it was so great, then why did it fall apart?


CTHABH

Lol yal ever heard about the ranchers in Central Asia who were slaughtering all their animals and eating so much beef they got sick because the government was gonna steal their animals ?


acommunistchair

they were lying


alex137a1

Maybe Kremlin bots are there, spreading this madness...


Conn-man

I thought it wasn’t “real communism”


KINGMIKE3271

“Saved the world from Nazi Germany” casually left out the part where they raped and shot millions of women and innocent civilians.


gothos__folly

The Soviets mostly just continued the [economic growth trend](https://images.app.goo.gl/BCVhpxBE6yEgHnTGA) that began in the last decades of the Tsarist period. This sort of growth is pretty standard for an industrializing nation. It just so happened that most of the west was already industrialized at this point, and for most of the USSR’s time, the “3rd world” hadn’t really begun its own industrial revolution in earnest. It was the “2nd world’s” (a term for the Eastern bloc; non-western countries affiliated with the Soviet Union rather than the 3rd world ) time to shine, so to speak. *Every concentration camp ever:* 0% unemployment, 0 homeless. Enough said Lots of countries did their part against nazi Germany. The USSR just happened to be the most enticing, nearby frozen wasteland for the Germans to decide to invade with grossly inadequate preparation. The soviets did nothing impressive here, it’s kinda like congratulating a cop for shooting someone who intentionally committed “suicide by cop” Higher calorie consumption is a rather odd misreading of a [1983 CIA report](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf) that found that soviets ate appx. 3280 cal/day, and Americans ate 3520. The CIA concluded the higher calorie consumption was a BAD thing, not something to brag about. They also concluded that soviets ate healthier because they ate moderately less sugar and fat, but also claimed that the fact that Soviets got approximately 8% of their calories from protein vs 21% for Americans demonstrated that the soviets ate healthier, which is downright false according to modern nutritional science. In fact, the reverse is generally held to be true, though government dietary guidelines have been slow to catch up. Space travel is another one of those technologies where “the writing was on the wall.” Everyone knew about it, and the US was close behind. Kinda the inverse of the nuclear arms race, except that the former was extremely important and the fact that the US got there first changed the history of the world, whereas it’s hardly material who actually got to space first, and soon after Russia’s early accomplishments, the US overtook them in other space endeavors such as reaching the moon first. Also, the Soviet victory in reaching space first was arguably considerably aided by the USSR’s flagrant disregard for the lives of its cosmonauts. The US would never have sent people into space believing there was a high likelihood of catastrophic failure resulting in the deaths of its Astronauts. The Soviets did so quite often in the early days of the space race. “Ended the centuries long cycle of famine” - there was indeed a history of famine in the region pre-USSR. The USSR made it a whole lot worse in terms of death tolls, despite rapidly increasing economic output which rendered famines largely a non-issue in the Western world by the time it was fully into its own industrial revolution. Everything in this list that is attributed to the Glory of the Soviet Union is literally just standard for the industrial revolution stage, except that due to the well-known issues of central planning (economic calculation problem), the soviet distribution system was so inefficient that despite rapidly increasing grain yields AND significant foreign aid, many millions or even tens of millions of its citizens died over the course of several massive famines. General morale may have been better than during the Tsarist period because of information suppression, but many more people died of starvation - 5-10 million during the Holodomor alone, as compared to 400,000 during the worst famine of the late Tsarist period (and most of those were due to disease). To be fair, the holodomor may have been intentional, but I’m not sure that’s something tankies would want to brag about, so… The claims about racism and sexism were true “in theory” according to official laws and government policy, but in practice, sexism and racism were still very, very big issues. Granted, the racism was more “targeted” at certain relatively minor groups, but the USSR conducted legitimate ethnic cleansing, which was not really an issue in the US during the same period. I don’t really see a point in arguing “who was worse” between the US and USSR, other than to say that they were both pretty bad at the time, but for different reasons. Free education: name me a western country that doesn’t have free education. Soviets had a few more years of free education (so do many non-US western countries), and I definitely consider this a good thing, but if living in a command economy under a dictatorship was a prerequisite for having free college, I’m sure we can all guess what most people would choose. It’s telling that we had to go this far down the list before finding one or two minor areas where the USSR was “better” in a few minor respects. 99% literacy: well, it wouldn’t surprise me if their literacy rates were higher, as the USSR was way more hardcore about their enforced education, but I also wouldn’t trust anything a dictatorial government known for its constant propaganda and lies says about the matter. I’m sure North Korea “says lots of things” that are probably bullshit, too (and so does the US government, to an extent). Eliminated poverty: Yes, I’m sure that the millions of people who starved during the Holodomor felt very enriched as they wasted away and died. No doubt, their government told everyone else they were all doing great. WTF Doubled life expectancy: not sure how accurate this is, but it’s still pretty standard for a nation in this stage of development 1991 switch to capitalism: oh man, there’s so much wrong with this I don’t know where to start. It’s ridiculously disingenuous to talk about this as though it was just a wee little switch to a different economic system when it was the literal catastrophic collapse and splintering of a government which had conditioned the entire populace to depend on it and tried very hard to stamp out individualism, which is instrumental to success in a capitalist economy. The former Soviets after the USSR’s collapse were a demoralized, broken people by any definition. 40% GDP loss wasn’t a sustained trend, and it isn’t even that far fetched for a severe economic collapse of that nature. They also lost a shitload of their land mass, so making GDP comparisons of this sort without correcting for that is downright stupid. Russia today has tons of corruption and is functionally an oligarchy, because the wrong people opportunistically seized power immediately after its collapse. Pretending ANY of these are inherent features of capitalism is downright ridiculous and refuted by the entire western world. Look to North and South Korea if you want an honest, apples-to-apples comparison of how relatively equal (at the start) nations fare under capitalism vs socialism (if we are operating on the weird dichotomy marxists like to use because they seem to believe that Marxism is the only possibly genuine form of socialism). Comparing countries like the US and the USSR is inherently a failing endeavor because they were simply never at the same developmental stage during the time period when both countries coexisted. It’s very difficult to draw any sort of comparison when anything either side points out can potentially be explained by a number of other developmental factors


Fridge2000

Don't you love it when young liberals use their own imagination and a little bit of disingenuous soviet "statistics" to confirm their own wet dreams and justify an authoritarian regime?


dariusvarno

Some point are really valid, but that in any way doesn't justify the clusterfuck of other horrible things soviets did


Asian_Bootleg

Ooh, lowering expectations I see.


Actual-Gap-9800

At this point I think these people are doing kind of shit on purpose. Maybe they think the more they repeat something, the more it becomes true if they just wish a bit harder and say it one more time. Idk. Just feels like there's an ulterior motive behind this, and not just dumb debating people on the side of the political spectrum you don't like for the sake of debating them, or that you actually beleive it would help society. Maybe we need mccarthyism again? Anyway, I wish the White Russians won. Think about how different Russia and the world would be. If only Tsar Nicholas got his head out of his ass.


Harry-Gato

Every single item listed is a lie. The Soviet Union was worse than Nazi Germany, and in fact had a hand in starting WWII in their pact with Germany supporting Hitlers actions. Stalin had plans to betray Hitler and take over a world weakened by years of fighting... And the unemployment rate and literacy rates? Please! The USSR didnt report actual statistics, only propaganda. The Soviets were first to send a man into space, but at great risk to his life. The flight was kept secret until after he survived, because of the odds of failure. In fact, they covered up the fact he ejected from the space capsule and landed via parachute because the retro rockets on the capsule were untrustworthy. This glorification and rewriting of history is an insult to the tens of millions who perished during the failed Socialist Experiment.


LemonX19

If GDP did half, it was probably because the USSR broke up and each individual nation had less money. Unless they were talking about the aggregate GDP of all the USSR’s former constituents, in which case I doubt that’s true because money doesn’t just disappear instantly due to a switch in economic situation.


DrunkenSwordsman

> End the centuries-long cycle of famine in Eastern Europe AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. #**AHAHAHAHAHAHA**


this_is_jim_rockford

> 0% unemployment Because you were required to have a job, otherwise you could be charged with social parasitism. And getting fired was next to impossible, so very many people were unproductive, just showed up and drank all day and still got paid. Think the joke went like: "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us." > 0% homelessness Yet there was the term "bomzh" (бомж), an acronym of "bez opredelyonnogo mesta zhitelstva" (Без Определённого Места Жительства) (without a definite place of residence) used by the Soviet militsiya. And during the 1980 Moscow Olympics, wasn't there a 101-km rule? > Saved the world from Nazi Germany And yet sent many Estonians, Ukrainians etc into Siberia in cattle wagons. And forced its own oppressive system on Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. > End (sic) the centuries-long cycle of famine in Eastern Europe And yet had to spend hours in long lines at stores


Tatankafisch

There also was 0 Crime All thanks to the Power of lies in their Statistiks


Superflypete

The Soviets, Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Chinese proved that you can’t starve and murder your way to 100% literacy, but you can try awfully hard.


marketable_okayasu

*Sent thousands of minorities to holdomors *Threatened the Baltic States to join the USSR or face invasion *Famine *Chernobyl *Moltov Ribbentrop Pact


No-Card2461

My favorite part is where is it a CCCP to Russia comparison on positives like GDP but includes former Soviet states for comparison of bad things like TB


Leet-Neet

Looks like satire... but I'm not sure.


ThirtyFiveFingers

Okay so if I use the argument for Russia before and after 1917 I can prove socialism is bad


M4sharman

Yeah the USSR lost half it's GDP. That'd be because it lost large swathes of land.


Mollof2

That's suposed to be a circlejerk subreddit


[deleted]

Except it isn't one.


Mollof2

:'(


Sucker_Punch_REDDIT

How do you explain those though? Cause otherwise those are all fair points


gdm100

They're all literal lies.


Damungis

The famine and racism stuff clearly isn't true, 0% unemployment is a hell of a stretch and I don't think all Russians want the USSR back. The poo-brain who made this just pulled this "info" out of their gaping disgusting commie ass.