• By - lborl


Jeff Buckley managed to make himself more iconic than his already-quite-iconic absent father, in the space of just one album, and occupying a similar 'tortured troubadour' sort of space. Zowie Bowie went for a film career instead as the far less nepotistic-sounding 'Duncan Jones'.


I suspect growing up away from a famous parent can be a strong motivating factor for some people, changing the game significantly. Not sure if you could call either of them a "star" but both Maurice Jarre and his son, Jean-Michel, achieved worldwide recognition in their respective genres (film score and electronic). Interestingly, Maurice started using electronics when Jean-Michel was already a synth icon.


Jeff is more iconic than Tim? Huh.


well, I'm pretty sure he sold more records. Plus I'd argue he's responsible for 'Hallelujah' turning up in things like Shrek and the X-Factor, while Tim inspired a This Mortal Coil cover, the name of that band Starsailor and that Residents song about the riff they stole from him


Well I was today years old when I found out that Jeff Buckley's father was of any note so...


Enjoy exploring some fascinating yet challenging vocal avant-folk. Don't start with *Starsailor*, unless you're already into weird.


Agree, I'd start with *Goodbye and Hello* and go from there


Good call. I love when folk has this weird, carnival feeling to it. There's something about the freakiness of a carnival that fascinates me, like this place where all the misfits congregate. It's a place for outsiders, but it's not a haven. It's just another place, like Pleasant Street. The psychedelic instrumentation of that album is beautiful and mysterious, perfectly demonstrating what Buckley is singing, like how his lover just vanishes, as if the music itself has blown or carried her away. Almost every song is filled with feelings of trepidation and uncertainty about his romantic relationships. If I didn't know better, Buckley could've convinced me that love is lonely and fake.


A beautiful quick summation my friend!


I just copy pasted.


Without a doubt. Tim's music has pretty much disappeared, where Jeff is still talked about as a tragic and gifted artist who made a masterpiece.


> Tim's music has pretty much disappeared wtf lol no


How about trying to make some points? Where do you hear Tim Buckley's music? I never hear it on the radio or in any contemporary movies or shows, or being dissected by music Youtubers. I see Jeff in all of the above regularly.


Ah. Never mind. I understand the point you're making now and agree. Tim Buckley isn't part of those popular media, so he's "disappeared".


Yeah, I would say lasting popularity and continuing relevance is a good way to compare legacy and who is more "iconic".


Yep. I just need to readjust my thinking. It's perfectly understandable that someone "meh" like Jeff Buckley could be "iconic". Plenty of other examples of this.


I think you just don't know what "iconic" means. Also I can't even imagine in what way you could call Jeff Buckley "meh".


> I think you just don't know what "iconic" means. True. I'm so full of my own opinions that only what I like I consider "iconic". > Also I can't even imagine in what way you could call Jeff Buckley "meh". He's not that interesting.


Check out the streaming numbers.


I need to hang around plebs more. I'm so out of touch.


take some time of work, walk up a mountain, stare deep in to a pond. see your reflection. study it. think all your thoughts. then come to the understanding that being a music snob and calling people "plebs" is the teeniest of teeny dick energy this side of donald trump.


What's the Trump equivalent of Godwin's Law?


fair. how about smug, entitled, privileged music bore? let's take trump out of it.




The privilege doesn't matter if the music is good. It can be a little obnoxious to hear silver spoon children perform music about life on the streets or poverty, but tons of musicians sing and write about things that aren't necessarily personal to them. There are a ton of examples. A big example no one has mentioned is Nas, considered one of the greatest rappers of all time, who's far more famous than his dad, [Olu Dara](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qpINrHYG0Q&ab_channel=baosoulshiner). Plenty more artists come from Musical families even if none of their relatives are famous. I don't know about genetics, but it certainly helps to grow up learning and creating music.


Wow i never knew that, how cool about Nas. And yes totally agreed, celebrity children are often just making unneeded noise and it’s super annoying.


There’s a song called Bridging the Gap that Olu Dara and Nas did together, but IMO Olu Dara’s part is awkward and it’s not that good of a song. I’m not a huge fan of Nas anyways though.


JT Earle the son of Steve Earle has good music. His dad even did an album covering a bunch of his songs, after JT died though.


Justin Townes Earle was born on the same day and year as me. I really liked his music and was really shocked when he passed. I wonder if it was at least partly the pressure of measuring up to his more famous father.


It doesn't really bother me tbh. I know 'nepo-kids' are controversial, but I don't think it's that surprising that creative parents tend to bring up children who want to go into that field. I do think the market, in the end, will decide - although, as previously mentioned, privilege can give access and a wealth of resources. For example, Norah Jones did end up having success in her own terms independent from her father (Ravi Shankar). Perhaps the name might have opened up some doors (if any), but I don't know how much influence her relationship with her dad had on her early success. I think it can be hard to grow up in the shadow of a famous parent. You're always going to be compared to them and accused of nepotism. I haven't heard much of Willow's music, but I won't dismiss just on the basis she's Will Smith's daughter. I think someone mentioned Inhaler? I agree - don't really see the hype around them which is a shame because I think the members seem pretty sincere and want to make good music. In some regards, nepotism has limited them creatively as they haven't been given the space to develop. I wanted to like them when I heard the band talk about their influences but,yeah, surprisingly bland.


It’s cool that it doesn’t bother you. It really irks me and I think it’s because I don’t believe that the market decides. I would love to believe that good work will have its place cemented in history, even if it takes decades. But in our lifetime I know *marketing* has such a huge influence. Just look at how much less-than-stellar music continues to have radio time.


the musicality might be less than stellar, but it sells because it works. it's just about understanding what works. and if it works, and it sells, and is enjoyed, there's an element of "good work" in that. if writing radio hits required no skill i would be doing it.


not necessarily, though. I work in entertainment and you’d be surprised at what falls through the cracks and many people agree is garbage. I didn’t say writing radio hits takes no skill - it takes plenty of skill. I’m saying that the market isn’t deciding in a conscious way every time.


I've yet to see **Elle King** mentioned. (**Rob Schneider's daughter**) I'm sure having a famous father (and mother) helped with resources, connections, and such, but as far as I know, her mother is a model and her dad (obviously) an actor, so music was sort of an oddball way for her to go. She's got a strong, soulful blues-y voice you can't necessarily "train". If she's writing her own songs, she's got a knack for pop songwriting too. Doesn't even go by Schneider. She's one of my favorites. Didn't even know who her parents were til after I became a fan. She is very talented. [Elle King - Exs and Ohs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uLI6BnVh6w)


Albert Hammond had a hit and I believe his son, Albert Hammond Jr. was rather privileged and had a more successful career in The Strokes and as a solo artist. Even though he had wealth he was able to make some really good music.


Yeah, he had “It Never Rains In Southern California” and I think that was it. Albert Hammond Jr. had a kick ass first album with The Strokes. I saw him live doing his solo stuff and it was a really good concert. I feel that their latest album The New Abnormal is really good as well.


As much as it's commendable that Willow Smith or any other child of a celebrity might be able to make compelling music, I think it's important to remember that they have the privilege of being able to spend as much time, money, and effort as they want to become a better artist without ever having to worry about how they are going to put a roof over their head, pay their bills, or feed their family. How could Willow Smith possibly relate to someone in those circumstances? It's not a knock against them. If you enjoy their music, that's great, but I am personally much more interested in the people who are making great music in spite of their circumstances. Those artists are much harder to find, because they don't have huge marketing budgets or financial support. I'm an artist myself, so I've been fortunate enough to meet a ton of great songwriters who deserve every bit of the accolades that people like Willow Smith receive and then some. I have so much admiration for people who continue making music because they love doing it, and it's the only way that they know how to express themselves. I try to support those people as much as I can, because they almost aways appreciate it much more than the child of a celebrity ever would.


100% — this is a harsh take, but it does FEEL like many hardworking artists are denied opportunities because a pointless celebrity child got the slot. I just watched a horrible SNL performance by an artist who has famous relatives and it just reeked. However, I have faith that most good artists will find their way, regardless of how much time it takes.


Norah Jones (daughter of Ravi Shankar) did a great job landing in a different style of music and executing it really well


Ultimately it comes down to whether it's good. Miley Cyrus has done some good stuff. Willow Smith's live rendition of Meet Me At Our Spot was on repeat for me a few weeks ago. I can't stand Bono's kids' band Inhaler, bland bland bland. I don't give a shit about Corey Taylor or Dave Grohl's kids joining them onstage. If I were at those shows I'd be thinking "I didn't pay to watch you fulfill a parental fantasy. Save it for your kid's prep school talent show." I hate the word privilege, but still, in our impossibly competitive and ruthless economy I can't help but feel some bitterness, like they're taking the air away from other, equally/more talented individuals whose families could use the money. But as long as they admit their advantages and produce something that's competent, does anyone really have the right to tell them not to? It's not like it would do any good if they did. Successful people get more success and life isn't fair.


Privilege is quite important for starting a music career. Buying instruments, lessons, studio time, touring, and funding in general takes a lot of money. It's hard to make money in the music business while having to work another full time job. It helps if parents can support you while you get on your feet.


I agree, security/safety net is also a very practical and psychological resource


I am shamelessly bitter here too. Not angry or indignant, but it’s irritating. I feel like it’s important not to fall asleep to that reality. We all suffer when good work gets crowded out by noise.


Julian Lennon looking and sounding like a bland 80s version of his father: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQs1Ynq0rlk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQs1Ynq0rlk) ​ Sean Lennon Doing it much better: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQkvrsbkhs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQkvrsbkhs) ​ The OG [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann\_Sebastian\_Bach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach) came from a famous musical family. I don't think anyone would say he was riding on family coattails though.


I like Too Late For Goodbyes 😂


Me too I has the vinyl. Shhh😇 lol I truly love Sean's diverse and amazing adventures in music. He's one of my favorite artisits like, ever hands down.


All the talent in the Bach family went to PDQ


The Claypool Lennon Deliurium is way cooler than any of this.


Funnily enough this is something I thought about recently, as I had tried to listen to lot of the children of Bob Marley's music. They really, clearly are trying but just don't have those songwriting chops.


If the famous-child-artist makes great work, then their privilege is a fun fact (eg Jeff and Tim Buckley) and just means the more the merrier in terms of good music. Usually both artists sound great in their own right in an unrelated way. If the famous-child-artist makes mediocre or just “ok” work, then it feels like an airheaded and egotistical endeavor and I bitterly roll my eyes at having to tolerate its existence, and the world feels unfair. I mean read the room! So in some sense, the quality of the work becomes more important than it would be for a totally unknown artist. But quality should matter anyway. We have enough noise at it is.


do you mean the 2019 album "WILLOW"? I will give it a listen. I am actually fascinated by Jaden Smith and a lot of your questions. I happen to have spent time in close proximity with Jaden and think his parents have completely ruined his life or potential, he has absolutely no grounding in reality sadly and I would say is deeply insecure. I'm not really sure what a way out for him is. You can hear this in his music as well. I had assumed the same would be the case for Willow Smith so am surprised by this post, will check out the album. My bias based on experience with Jaden would be to say that I'd be interested to know who is around Willow in her songwriting/production - quite often in pop/hip hop I think the producer is much a much more significant factor in whether or not the songs are any good. (unless the artist writes everything themselves of course)


It's funny that your favorite is Willow Smith. My least favorite privileged artist is Jaden Smith. A bad artist is one thing. An artist that isn't allowed to fail is another. ​ Jaden should have faded from the public eye many times. His reddit ama where he switched cAPITAL aND lOWERCASE lETTERS. His cheap rolls like Karate Kid and the Get Down. The crown jewel of his privilege is After Earth. A movie funded by Will Smith and starring Will and Jaden Smith. It's a slap in the face. The quintessential display of what a joke Hollywood is and that you just need to have money. Even worse, Will Smith turned down serious rolls like Django to make that movie. Also that shit with boxed water or whatever? Ridiculous. Jaden sucks. ​ I really like Dua Lipa. Her dad is an executive of some kind in the music industry. He didn't just throw money at her. He helped foster an incredible team for her and made her the artist that he never could be. That is family legacy going to work and changing the world. Not giving your kid the option to throw as many ideas at a wall as possible and see what sticks.


How is that not throwing money at someone? To literally hand them a dream career? Maybe I misunderstood.


Yeah, that’s the same thing. Still threw money at her.


We need that Jaden Smith / Island Boys collab. Satan, are you listening?


George Lucas directed lots of blockbuster movies and Matt Lucas starred in Little Britain and now does Bake Off on UK tv…


But they’re not related...


Honestly we could probably have a whole thread about the music of Chet Hanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owK-2zmVhd8. He's just like the complete opposite of his dad and it's so fascinating.




*Mr. Forrest Man* [lawdamercy!]


everyone needs to read more about Chet


I'm just so utterly fascinated by him. The fake Jamaican accent, the terrible rap music, the fact that his dad is Tom fucking Hanks (America's most dad-like figure since Mr. Rogers died). Everything about his is so bizarre, he feels like he's from an alternate universe.


especially with what the good son turned out like


Up with Kingston!


The only thing that matters is if the music sounds good. Who gives a shit about someone’s “privilege” or where they came from. Hell Springsteen aka the most famous ”working” man isn’t exactly an every day working man even though his music tries to make him come off as one, but at the end of the day he still puts out some great shit, and puts on live shows that would probably make your grandfather have a heart attack. Also fun fact the singer in the wallflowers is the son of Bob Dylan. Now does he live up to Dylan’s prowess as a musician, no, but he doesn’t have to. Because the music is catchy and fun. ​ Also I feel music talent isn’t hereditary, but instead they develop music interests from their Famous parents. It’s in the environment not in the genes.


Relevant thread from a few months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/LetsTalkMusic/comments/ojtooc/musicians_with_famous_parents_a_recipe_for_failure/


Damn wish I had seen this first, thanks!


Julian Lennon made some quite successful albums during the 1980's and 1990's even though he had very little communication with his murdered Dad, Beatle John Lennon. He surprisingly sounded a lot like his father. His most famous hits were 'Too late for goodbyes' and 'Saltwater' which had Beatle George Harrison on guitar. His wife, Yoko Ono, also had her son, Sean Lennon, try to upstage Julian but Sean didn't have the same singing voice and us now a well known musician.


Jacob Dylan. A very good musician in his own right. But very underrated. But then again, his dad is Bob Dylan.


I'm still pissed at Eddie Van Halen for doing Michael Anthony dirty in order to get Wolfgang in the band.


It is a mixed bag, some it is clearly the only reason they ever got signed or managed to release any music in the first place. I wonder if it is a bit of catch-22 after that. They are there because of the name but it is impossible to live up to it except on rare occasions - and those is when it tends to be a different genre for an entirely new audience. A Lennon or McCartney child is unlikely to make very interesting guitar music for example.


Nancy Sinatra got Boots in, and Bang Bang. If you've got money, a few good songs, and a gimmick, you're good. But let's not restrict this. Let's include singers who grew up wealthy like Taylor Swift and Katherine McPhee. You can absolutely buy your way into the industry. Taylor wrote bland pop and had it produced by expensive experts. Katherine can't write, didn't find a good writer, and now she's married to an elder songwriter who isn't writing for her. Wealth means shit if you can't find good material. Look at that bomb Shania Twain released a few years ago. Wealth means shit if you hire shit. Britney Spears could take her money and go hire the best songwriters and sound producers in the business and be right back on top in 8 months. I fuckin hope she does.


Taylor is a very acclaimed songwriter…? Like even when she was doing the country thing with pretty basic production songs like Our Song and Dear John were very well received.


Thats is correct but i absolutely loathe seeing her mentioned in the list of best of all time songwriters. Like really? She’s in the league of Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell , Lou Reed, Judy Collins, Tracy chapman, Bob Dylan?


I’d say her newish folk albums are starting to put her in that category. Fascinating narratives and lovely instrumentation.


Tale as old as time, songwriters who appeal to teenaged girls being marginalized.


That’s still a very steep hil to climb.


Well received yes, but from the very beginning she was surrounded by Nashville power writers. Most, if not all her biggest hits have been co written and/or produced by industry mega writers. From my POV she is a good song writer. I would never rank her amongst the greats though.


Personally, I don't care much about the artist's privilege so long they make music that they enjoy making as opposed to making the marketable or the gimmicky tunes just to turn a profit. It's a bonus if the music they end up creating is a fascinating listen to me. An example would be Miley Cyrus whom I heard preferred the music she has created later in her life. While I'm not a fan of her more recent discography, it's good that she's making music that she does like and the same goes to Willow.


I admit to being disappointed to find out that Rooney Mara, who is actually a decent actress was from the filthy rich family. Art Rooney was big with the Steelers somehow don’t ask me I don’t keep that shit in my head but I do know that they were filthy filthy rich because of the sports franchise. Correct me if I’m wrong, any relative of theirs has enough money to go to the best and most intensive acting school in the world and stay there just as long as you need to to do breakout rules and no one‘s heard of you. I’m not folding or acting but it just would be nice to see somebody who doesn’t have A silver spoon life and get ahead for once.


She's Amazing! So versatile! Raw even! ;) I love Sean Lennon too. Guilt free!