T O P

Mask optional school district already has hundreds of students in quarantine

Mask optional school district already has hundreds of students in quarantine

-Splash-

Someone needs to post a comparison to another district in the area with masks. So we can see the difference. That's the important part. The difference is the important part.


MordecaiOShea

Parkway is about the same size, requires masks and has 161 quarantined. Edit: https://www.parkwayschools.net/Page/10626


wanttobebetter2

Are they posting that somewhere?


BuddyCharbonier

Hazelwood School District. Masks required. 570 students quarantined. https://www.hazelwoodschools.org/Page/8564


ActuallyThatOtherGuy

An important number also is Hazelwood SD has 16370 students


BuddyCharbonier

The article says Fort Zumwalt has 17,000 students. Their dashboard says 391 students currently quarantined.


ActuallyThatOtherGuy

I do wonder if HSD's large number is heavily effected by north county having the lowest vaccination rates among STLCo and STCCo zip codes.


BuddyCharbonier

There’s probably all kinds of reasons. Lower vax rate, different behavior of different people (ie social distance differences between communities outside of and in the schools), quarantine rules for the schools (what constitutes a close contact), classroom sizes.


ActuallyThatOtherGuy

Thank you. For some reason I didn't see that in the article


-Splash-

570... Is that more than the unmasked? If so that would be interesting.


Osyrys

The total number of cases appears to be higher in Fort Zumwalt or am I reading it wrong? There needs to be a standard for reporting so comparing different districts can make more sense. What requires quarantine in one district could be vastly different than another district.


somekindofhat

I can hardly believe that in the long run masks will make any difference if they're doing basically the same lunch routine as in 2019. Hundreds unmasked in the cafeteria, spitting on one another?


Robotmonkeybutler

From what I could find it looks like Rockwood has about 100 kids in quarantine right now. Rockwood also has about 3500 more kids. So about 4 times the kids in quarantine in the district without masks vs the one who requires it.


-Splash-

4x less with the masks. Heh... Speaks for itself?


alekhine888

I’m in Rockwood and support the masks but it’s a bit of an unfair comparison. Saying masks reduce by 4x or whatever is a bit disingenuous. In Rockwood where they have to wear masks, exposed students aren’t quarantined if wearing a mask. So unless the exposure was at lunch (assuming the kid was wearing a mask as required), positive cases in the school are not generating a lot of quarantined students.


-Splash-

Actually that makes sense.


alekhine888

I don’t. I have no idea. I think most reasonable people agree masks help but aren’t going to prevent all spread. I’m just saying if the quarantine threshold is unmasked exposure, you’re going to have WAY more quarantined kids in Zumwalt than Rockwood even with a comparable number of positive cases because of the mask policy.


Theabstractsound

https://go.lindberghschools.ws/Page/16079 Lindbergh schools, St. Louis county, masks required


-Splash-

Im not really interested enough to go through it myself. Thanks though.


Theabstractsound

13 students out of 7000. Down since last week while mask optional schools data looks more like a ramp leading up to deathville.


-Splash-

Well I wouldn't say we know the outcome yet. How many kids do you think will die? Why do you think it leads to "deathville"?


stringere

Kids will get sick with a virus that can kill them?


RichBraun

Death from COVID isn’t actually a significant risk for children, and that’s true with Delta and the other variants that have occurred so far. The real concern is long term health issues as a result of COVID, or kids passing COVID to vulnerable adults.


stringere

So maybe we could try to keep kids from getting Covid so they don't have long term effects or spread it to at risk people.


-Splash-

Everybody is going to get it at some point aren't they? Or at least come into contact with it. Am I the only one operating under that assumption?


RichBraun

Is that in dispute?


stringere

I would hope it isn't but it doesn't take much time to find anti-mask sentiments being thrown around. Masks are the least of what we can do to prevent the spread but there are people clamoring for their "freedom" from masking.


-Splash-

Goes without saying. Everyone undwrstands that part is inevitable.


JethroLull

"That might prove me wrong, so I choose to ignore it"


-Splash-

Prove what wrong? I think it should be more important to someone with kids. If they aren't concerned enough to post it I'm not really concerned enough to go look.


therealtruthaboutme

"“Kids do pretty much what they’re told by adults,” he said. “They listen, they learn, and that’s how they go, but if you have parents saying it’s wrong – and then I hear there’s bullying in schools right now – kids are being told, ‘Why do you have that mask on? Your parents are stupid.’”" Trashy


ThisWeekInFlips

this is exactly why mandates are necessary at schools, the bullying, the peer pressure to conform. and I told our school director as much when they initially did not have a mandate. fortunately they changed their tune and now have a mandate, and hopefully it stays until I can vaccinate my kids.


sofingclever

> this is exactly why mandates are necessary at schools, the bullying, the peer pressure to conform I agree. It's a lot easier to just let the adults be the "bad guy." It's not fair to expect kids to have to stand up for why they want to wear a mask. If they can just blame it on a rule it makes it easier for everyone involved.


TheOrionNebula

Some kids have stood up and argued that if they were forced to wear them that they would suffer psychologically and academically though.


dannyjimp

And my question would be, “how, exactly, does wearing a mask lead to ‘psychological suffering’?”


bplipschitz

Well, in the one kid's case it was a Hannibal Lecter mask. /s


dannyjimp

Or a Jason mask….


TheOrionNebula

I know one of them said it would ruin homecoming, which would be very upsetting for all of the students. Which of course caused the parents to stand up and applaud. These are the types of arguments that swayed my districts school board.


herumspringen

You know what else would ruin homecoming? Getting COVID


JJROKCZ

I mean honestly fuck homecoming…. You send children to school so they can be productive members of society and so the nation can depend upon a base level of education in its workforce. This focus on great memories and fun dances is only held by people whose lives peaked in high school and never moved on from their “glory days”


MUSAFFA1

I watched that girl talk. I was equal parts angered, disgusted, and sad. When wearing a mask to the Homecoming dance is more traumatic than watching members of your community lose their ability to breathe, all hope for those kids and their parents are lost. They hold no value for human life outside of their own.


TheOrionNebula

It makes it even worse that this was part of the *actual debate* on how to keep kids safe during a fucking pandemic. You had a few that were worried about the safety of their family, then others who said "like omg, these masks like totally don't go with my dress". And then... the board voted. And from what I have seen so far 95% of the parents don't give two fucks.


somekindofhat

These are the kids who believe in survival of the fittest, at the place where most kids first learn it. If we want to change that then we're going to have to change the whole system.


dannyjimp

Lord help us.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

No no no, not those kids. Only the kids that want to wear a mask.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

What if they took an anonymous poll and the students voted against a mask mandate? Would you then support the students standing up for why they don't want to wear one?


JJROKCZ

No because I don’t trust children to make appropriate decisions for the safety of the community. I also don’t trust most adults to be responsible for decisions either since they’ve proven themselves incapable of critical thought


ThisWeekInFlips

no because I trust the science even if it's inconvenient or uncomfortable for some. what if the students unanimously voted to no longer stop at red lights or stop signs because they don't want to? or to smoke indoors because they want to? your argument seems to rest on personal choice when mask wearing is not that. your choice impacts others. it's the same reason you need to stop at red lights and can no longer smoke indoors in public places—for the greater good of all—even if you'd rather do something else.


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ThisWeekInFlips

I don't really disagree with anything you say here. Just because deaths are low, though, doesn't mean I'm cool if my kids get it. That's why I make sure they are vaccinated from things like the flu and hepatitis and polio and everything else our doctors recommend. Just because very few kids die from those things doesn't mean I want to be reckless and put my kids at risk. But my kids can't yet get the covid vaccine of course. So I make sure they wear masks indoors everywhere. (Actually, I don't even make sure; at 8 and 10 years old, they understand and are totally happy to do their part.) But here's the thing you don't address: when others do not wear masks, they are more likely to spread the virus to my unvaccinated kids even if my kids are wearing a mask. Is the risk low? Yes. But the effort it takes to wear a mask to protect those who cannot get vaccinated is also low, so why not just do it? Why not take one for the team to keep kids who can't get vaccinated safe? It's not about personal choice, because your personal choice in this situation has the chance to impact others negatively. Once the vaccine is available and my kids have gotten it and they have the same protection I do, fine, personal choice, yada yada yada. But until then, this is why I favor mask mandates in schools. Without them, kids will be susceptible to bullying and peer pressure and be less likely to wear them consistently. Why not do what we can to keep kids safe from this thing? Because they have a low chance of dying is not good reason to be flippant.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

Personal risk analysis is what this all comes down to. Me, and I'm sure 90% of this sub, speed occasionally while driving. Somewhere between 1200-1400 kids (14 and under, so none of them driving) die every year in the US due to car crashes. So 4x the rate as Covid, though that doesn't count the long term issues caused even if they survive (for both car crashes and Covid). If we actually cared about saving every life, no matter what the inconvenience, then why don't we drop all speed limits down to 30mph on highways and 5mph in residential areas to try and drop those deaths down to zero? Or maybe we have every kid put on a helmet, neck brace, etc. if they want to go in the car. Maybe everyone has a driving passport that is taken away if you are caught speeding and now you can't go to the gym, restaurants, or concerts. To me, this sounds just as silly as never going back to normal as long as there are covid cases, but it would absolutely help save the lives of innocent kids. So the point is, that there is no specific number of cases, or % of people vaccinated, or whatever other goal you can think of that everyone will agree on.


ThisWeekInFlips

I hear you, but a more appropriate analogy would be seat belts and car seats. Of course nobody is expecting to reduce the risk of death or sickness to zero, because that is absurd and impossible, but we should (and do!) attempt to mitigate as much as is reasonably possible. It would feel strange to consider hopping in the car and not making kids wear a seat belt or be in a car seat, even though that's what they did a few decades ago, because we have learned over time (with science!) that there is a reasonable approach to making kids *safer*... so much so that we have accepted it as law. Same goes with masks. There is a reasonable approach to making kids safer and we should not hesitate using it. In fact, even if you wanted to make a *personal choice* as a parent to not put your kid in a car seat, because, I dunno, it makes them uncomfortable, you can and will be held liable for that child's injury or death should something happen because you ignored a basic accepted method to protect the child—and you also broke the law. To suggest that we are considering going to such extreme lengths to make sure kids are 100% safe at all times is a red herring. We are not trying to wrap our kids in multiple layers of life protecting bubble wrap, we're asking other people to wear a piece of cloth over their face while in close, indoor contact with our unvaccinated children during a global pandemic that has killed 4.5-million people—and counting. P.S. everyone *does* have a "driving passport that is taken away if you are caught speeding" and it is called a driver's license. Get caught speeding (or breaking some other law) enough and you won't be able to drive where you want.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

Agree to disagree about the speeding vs safety features because the whole argument from pro-mandate people is that the actions people take (not getting vaccinated or not wearing a mask) can affect other people who are doing it "right". A kid buckling up only affects themselves. A person speeding can kill someone else with their actions.


9bpm9

I would again just like to point out that all you're talking about is mortality and completely ignoring the long term morbidity from COVID. Just because you don't die doesn't mean you won't have significant effects for potentially the rest of your life. It's like not worrying about ticks because most people don't have long term effects from Lyme disease.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

I brought up the long term affects of getting in a car accident as well, just didn't think you needed details on that. You can lose limbs, be paralyzed, 3rd degree burns, etc. from a car accident. So if anything, long term effects backs up by argument more.


laodaron

No, because public health isn't up for a vote. Also, people are fucking stupid, as a general large group. We need to let actually educated experts make the decisions, not morons.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

If all the kids got together and voted unanimously that they wanted masks to feel safe, this sub would cream their pants and post about "how are these teenagers smarter than our elected officials!" If the kids got together and said they looked at the stats and don't want to wear them and just want to get back to normal, we would hear from this sub "these kids are just being influenced by their red neck parents and we need to protect them ourselves!" My point was to the original poster that the people in this sub only seem to care when the kids agree with them, but not the other way around.


laodaron

> If all the kids got together and voted unanimously that they wanted masks to feel safe, this sub would cream their pants and post about "how are these teenagers smarter than our elected officials!" Because that would be a true statement. It doesn't, however, mean that that vote should be anything more than symbolic. > If the kids got together and said they looked at the stats and don't want to wear them and just want to get back to normal, we would hear from this sub "these kids are just being influenced by their red neck parents and we need to protect them ourselves!" This is another true statement. Once again, voting is irrelevant when it comes to public health. > My point was to the original poster that the people in this sub only seem to care when the kids agree with them, but not the other way around. I disagree with this. Children are mostly just regurgitating what they hear at home. Some are far more intelligent than others, and of course, when we discuss things like this, we have to more or less stick to the general group. No one, and I mean no one, thinks that letting the children vote on masking at schools is a good idea, whether that body of children would vote for masks or against them.


JethroLull

Public health isn't up for a vote. Period. Whether or not the smarter people in this sub would be happy for them for making the smart decision has nothing to do with that. We all got your point. It was stupid.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

You missed the point. It wasn't actually about letting the kids vote, it was about how people in this sub only care about what kids think (see that swedish 14 year old chick, the parkland kids, etc.) and parade them around when they agree with them. If kids say something they disagree with, then it's just "kids and their parents are stupid."


JethroLull

That's because Greta Thunberg and the parkland kids *are right*. Many kids and many *many* parents are stupid. Your point wasn't lost on anyone; we all got it. It just wasn't a good point.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

Those kids aren't "right" they just believe in what you believe in. You can't be "right" about policies like those, but you can have groups of people with similar beliefs.


therealtruthaboutme

Kids might vote to smoke in school too or just to watch movies every day. This is why adults make choices for them until they are deemed old enough to do so on their own. I mean one girl was arguing about a healthcare decision that might effect everyone based on 'masks will ruin homecoming' Can you imagine if your kid died or had lifelong effects because someone didnt want them at a freaking dance? oh btw they are seeing long covid in chidlren now as well https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7


jornin_stuwb

COVID effects the vascular system. We are seeing possible long term effects that include brain damage, erectile dysfunction, lung damage and heart damage. Who the fuck knows what sort of long term damage that's going to have on kids. Because you sure as hell don't know. So no, I don't think that as a society, as adults, that an anonymous poll who's only result is "what percentage of kids disagree with the measures taken to prevent them from a getting a vascular disease?" is a worthwhile exercise. When we are faced with a novel virus that we don't know the long term effects of, how is the fuck is "let's quiz the children and see what they think" even a discussion we should be having? And don't come at me with anything about the vaccine. I am only here for the fact that you think that letting children make there own decisions about catching a vascular disease is not a completely fucked up opinion.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

You missed the point, as did most other people here. It was more about if the kids are saying things you agree with then you would parade them around. If the kids disagreed with your beliefs, then it would be "those kids are ignorant of the situation and we should force them to do what I want."


jornin_stuwb

I thought I was pretty fucking clear about my point of not letting the kids decide how to proceed in the face of a pandemic. Show me where the fuck I said parading kids around to make point was a good idea, because that wasn't me and you can stop putting words in my mouth. >What if they took an anonymous poll and the students voted against a mask mandate? Would you then support the students standing up for why they don't want to wear one? On it's face, that's a stupid idea for the reasons I've already outlined We can try to protect kids or we can fuck around playing pathetic little word games where you try to score 'gotcha' points. I think it's pretty obvious that I'm fucking done with the dishonest word games. I truly do not give a fuck about your point, it's fucking worthless.


therealtruthaboutme

A chain is only as strong as its weakest links and as society we cant let the weak links break us, which is also why mandates are necessary.


Whatever0788

Exactly. My kids’ school is mask-optional and I’ve been telling my kids that I would like for them to wear their masks the whole day. The biggest problem is that I have no idea if they are following this because there’s no one at the school enforcing it. My son is in quarantine as we speak because the kid who sits next to him tested positive. You’d think that when someone is positive, *especially* when masks aren’t being worn full time, that they would quarantine the whole class. Nope. Just my son’s “pod.” Best part: they’re trying to hide it from the rest of the class. I’m so over it.


hot4you11

Not to mention that teachers don’t have time to remember who to yell at when they take off their mask


Vertdefurk

The last statement is pure irony. There is definitely evidence of stupidity....just not where you think it is.


RichBraun

2% of the student body is in quarantine, and 0.38% infected. It’s still early so those numbers will go up, but I do wonder how they compare to the student population metro-wide, and how they compare to schools with mask requirements.


hot4you11

I think this is going to go up quite a bit in the next two weeks


Ok-Mine1268

Imagine by November. I have two kids who really should be in school but are at home virtual because of this craziness. Rock and a hard place.


Riplets

surprisedpikachu.jpg


aeywaka

"The spokesperson also said that not every quarantine means a student was exposed at the school. For example, she said some of the quarantines started from the very first day of school which means their exposure occurred before the school began." ...well how many, otherwise this data is kind of useless


julieannie

I mean, that can be both true and also not be true. I know one family who had 3 kids out of school to start the year. The oldest was old enough to be vaccinated but refused, got it from a pre-school year sport, then spread it to her siblings under 12. Are they counting the oldest as getting it from school? Her siblings?


TheOrionNebula

Ya it doesn't even matter. Masks also help protect others, so those kids at the very least would've lowered the risk of exposing the other kids. It's such a BS way to side step their dumb ass decision.


aeywaka

For the sake of argument, I'll just agree on the masks. My point is if we have no baseline we can't effectively measure the risk level. Many questions come to mind. Such as Test type? How many times they already had covid? Home behaviors? School behaviors?


ActuallyThatOtherGuy

At the very least, maximum 120 were from before school starting since that's what it was on Friday. Now it's at 350 so at least 230 more since starting school.


dcraig275

I live in this school district, and have held my kindergarten aged students from school for this exact reason. The district was so proud of the "multiple layers of protection" available to students against Covid, yet missed the point that the simplest layer to enforce across the board was masking. And better yet, they were so proud of those "multiple layers" that they stressed how many there were for students 12 and up... seems to me they have a large student body under that age, but I guess that's none of my business as a parent.


BigSlade2001

I live here too, and unfortunately the deadline for virtual was way back in June, before Delta surged. It's reprehensible that they just blatantly ignore CDC and the American Pediatric Association recommendations for masks. The risk to students was far less last year when it was mandatory, but now, when the Delta variant is infecting kids just as fast as adults, they deem it not necessary. I'm ashamed of the board for this decision.


dcraig275

With my kids in kindergarten we didn't even have the option for virtual. I'm sorry you missed the cutoff and hope you're doing your best to ensure your children's safety. My neighbor works in our assigned elementary school and we've talked at length about the stupidity behind this decision. Completely ignoring the science and medical advice just to avoid having to hear from Anti-Vax/Covid-denying Karens and Kens is a travesty. I'm just praying that they're able to have no blood on their hands come the September board meeting (for the sake of the kids, not the board).


BigSlade2001

I'm lucky, I got a really smart, strong kid who wears her mask because she understands what the stakes are. We talk every day to make sure she's not facing any bullying, but it's disheartening to have school leadership act so recklessly with our kids lives. Like you, I am hoping that by the time the Sept board meeting rolls around they will have to mandate them, but honestly the numbers are a lot lower than I was expecting.


dcraig275

I truly hope they stay low as that means kids aren't getting exposed/sick, but I can only say that this is just the first week, so I'm not holding my breath.


NewTech20

My coworker's kid made it two days before getting sick. My kid is set to start preschool and I'm tempted to just call it off. This is ridiculous.


MedievalGirl

I'm in a district that has a mask mandate. I sent an email to our superintendent yesterday saying thank you. I can't imagine the grief he's getting right now.


kpossible0889

This is a great idea! Sent one as well. They need all the positives they can get. No doubt they’re being swarmed by crazies.


Mikazukinoyaiba

*Who could have ever predicted this would happen?* Too many nonempathetic psychos in positions of power in this country.


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roundbout

Do all districts have the same testing and quarantine standards?


TheRealCDollarsign

St. Charles… what an embarrassment.


BallinThatJack

Hey at least they have decent vax numbers


dcraig275

*for Missouri Compared to other states, counties, or cities, they're not great. Sub 50% fully vaxxed as of 8/30/21


BallinThatJack

Thank you for clarifying that for everyone not knowing what state we’re in.


dcraig275

LOL, just doing my part!


EZ-PEAS

Suppose you live in a bad neighborhood and you get a guard dog. Does that mean you stop locking your door at night? Of course it doesn't, that's silly. St Charles has more than a 50% higher infection rate than St Louis City, despite the fact that St Louis City is a much denser and poorer urban area with a lower vaccination rate. The basic public health advice from the very beginning has been to use masks and social distance. Those two things alone are enough to control the pandemic if they're done properly. The vaccine is a great benefit, but it doesn't mean we should stop doing those other two things.


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TheOrionNebula

>those who are just trying to get by will just get sick and (hopefully) stay at home, They won't stay home due to financial reasons. Most people in the "trying to get by" demographic lack vacation time. And can't afford to lose a week or two of pay. I work with a lot of people who fit that description and if they were exposed wouldn't even tell anyone.


hot4you11

People just trying to get by live in both the city and st Charles


BallinThatJack

Hey be careful you’re getting dangerously close to opposing the vaccines with statements like that.


EZ-PEAS

The point is that we should be doing all three. Vaccines + masking + distancing.


BallinThatJack

The point is why are you hating on their vax numbers PEAS!?


EZ-PEAS

I'm not hating on anyone's vaccination numbers. It's great that St. Charles has a high rate of vaccination. What I'm saying is that vaccination alone isn't going to control the pandemic, especially while there are still large population reservoirs who can't or won't be vaccinated. Even if we didn't have anti-vaxxers in the population, children as a group make up around 20% of the population- a plenty large enough reservoir to keep the virus going. It seems like some people are taking the vaccine as a license to go engage in risky behavior. It doesn't mean that you're immune, and it doesn't mean that you can't get sick enough to spread it to others. That's always been true, even before the delta variant.


BallinThatJack

Ya well I bet you’ll change your tune whenever it comes to the Ligma variant


CouldntBeMoreWhite

How is it embarrassing to have vaccination rates 7-8% higher than the city? Is it all those republicans running around St Louis not following the science?


ActuallyThatOtherGuy

God, you need to get off this high horse. Everyone recognizes that it's also an issue to reach to the communities that have historically actually been harmed by the central government institutions currently telling them to get vaccinated for their own good. It's not good for anyone that they aren't vaccinated but nobodies trying to pretend it's only republicans not getting vaccinated. They're just the most assholish about it and draw attention to themselves.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

I wouldn't call basing my statements on statistics as me being on a "high horse". And everyone should be distrustful of the govt no matter what race you are or what political party is in power because of what they have done in the past.


hot4you11

I agree and would like to add that most everyone in st Charles has a car, a lot of people in the city rely on public transportation, which also makes it harder


imdirtydan1997

You can get a free vaccine at schnucks, Walgreens, cvs, Walmart, among many more places. If people can go out to get groceries, then they most likely have access to a vaccine. The whole argument (at least here in STL) that people cannot get to a vaccine due to a lack of transportation is incorrect. They’re choosing not to do so whether it’s personal choice, distrust, or any other reason.


Youandiandaflame

Our mask-optional district had over 20% of students (which includes the entire soccer team) in quarantine by the third day of class. It’s a fuckin’ shitshow.


TheOrionNebula

Which district?


chopsueysuicide

The fact that these people have politicized masks, for a year and a half, to the point that they are willing to get their own children sick is pretty despicable. The fact that they're willing to get *other* children sick makes them little better than domestic terrorists at this point.


xegrid

I love how I knew this was the Zumwalt district.....


RustyKumquats

I have a close acquaintance who just started teaching at a private school in the area. The other staff bragged about how they had zero cases of Covid last year while she showed concern about how they were reintroducing the students. 3/4 of her class is already out with Covid, as well as an administrator. I'd be surprised if they just didn't classify all of the Covid last year as the cold or flu.


OneGuyCory

I'm in St Charles county. Missed the deadline to register for virtual kindergarten. Mask optional in the school. They started 1 week ago. He's going to get a covid test today. It's not going to get any better


BradBBQPit

Just another reason I’m grateful to not live in The Chuck.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

And I'm sure there's plenty of reasons why people in St. Charles are grateful to not live in the city. It's good that people can live where they like.


BradBBQPit

Sorry to offend you and the land of the great white right.


TheRealBigLou

While I understand the overall demographic disparities between St. Charles County and St. Louis County, I do want to say that as a new resident of Lake St. Louis, I've never lived in a more diverse area and I lived 80% of my life in St. Louis County. Within 10 houses in either direction, I have more POC neighbors than not. Many are FOTB immigrants. I love it.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

Sorry to offend you and the land of the science deniers. Why St. Louis city residents won't just trust the science and get the vaccine is beyond me.


BradBBQPit

Unfortunately half our country is the land of science deniers.


dannyjimp

Well, as long as they had it BEFORE school started, then that’s ok.


imakeholesinu

In before Steve Ehlmann lectures the media on Personal Responsibility.


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wagnersbamfart

No problem, we will.


KhabibNurmagomurmur

Thanks! I knew I could count on you <3


-Splash-

..... Must smesh


KhabibNurmagomurmur

send me location


TrashBucketLad

Kids are at \~0 risk...and studies are showing prior infection is lasting a lot longer than vaccines. Everyone needs to calm down. These aren't 60 year olds. Learn to associate data with the risk group involved.


stage_directions

This is false. Let’s dance: link me the studies. I’ll read them, and if you’re right I’ll eat my goddamn hat.


TrashBucketLad

[https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids](https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids) Does Harvard count?


BetterThanAFoon

> Children, including very young children, can develop COVID-19. Many of them have no symptoms. Those that do get sick tend to experience milder symptoms such as low-grade fever, fatigue, and cough. Some children have had severe complications, but this has been less common. Children with underlying health conditions may be at increased risk for severe illness. > A potentially severe and dangerous complication can occur in children. Called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C), it can lead to life-threatening problems with the heart and other organs in the body. In this condition, different body parts, such as the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs, can become inflamed. Weird...... your source doesn't say 0 risk. Go Fish.


stage_directions

Shocking, right?


stage_directions

That’s not a study, and it doesn’t say the risk for kids is ~0. And your comment’s been deleted. So…


AmphetamineAstronaut

Nevermind the teachers, parents, grandparents, etc that the kids will then spread the virus to. Learn to use your noggin.


-Splash-

Shouldn't they be vaccinated?


TrashBucketLad

People at risk should be vaccinated, if that is truly doing its job, then no harm no foul right? If this mitigates serious symptoms, but not transmission what are we doing?


BetterThanAFoon

You still have people at risk that can be vaccinated but because their immune systems are suppressed (maybe it's really weak because of cancer treatments, or they are on immunosuppressant to prevent inflammation) even with a vaccine they can't mount a normal immune system response. That's why people are so big on herd immunity. If the total at risk population is nearly vaccinated it hugely reduces risk of transmission because there aren't viable hosts for the virus to gain a foothold, replicate, and spread. This also reduces the risk of mutations. It also protects those that are weakest and most vulnerable.


jornin_stuwb

So far COVID's long term effects include brain damage, erectile dysfunction, and the prognosis on permanent lung damage seems to be mixed. Sounds like great things to expose growing children to. >Kids are at ~0 risk Get the fuck out of here with that. We have no fucking clue what sort of problems may crop up later in life for kids exposed to COVID. It's fucking insane that people want to expose children to a vascular disease that we still don't know the long term effects of.


RustyKumquats

>It's fucking insane that people want to expose children to a vascular disease that we still don't know the long term effects of. Just so they can feel right. That's the least ignoble reason I've heard. Everything else is just to "own the libs".


TrashBucketLad

To argue long term effects of this and then advocate a new vaccine is odd. Not owning any libs, I'm not a Republican, just standing for facts


AnAverageUsername

This is such a bullshit argument. What long term negative effects of a vaccine do you think could happen, and when exactly do you think they'd occur and why? We already know about the long-term effects of Covid. It's been documented. It's happened, and it's happening. We're nearly a year into the vaccination efforts. Have you heard of ANY documented negative "long-term" effects from the vaccine, other than waning protection (and that are exclusive to this vaccine, and not vaccines in general)? Trust the science, my dude. For some reason I really am suspicious of your credentials to do otherwise.


TrashBucketLad

There are several cases of myocarditis affecting people long after their vaccine...for just one.


existentialnihilst42

What kills me about this kind of logic is: maybe the scientists performing the research are wrong and the hospitals and media are lying, and say ***hypothetically*** we didn’t have any kids being affected badly by this yet (we absolutely do). Shouldn’t we feel better about ourselves protecting them and it being for nought, rather than risking not protecting them and it turns out it *can* harm them? Say hypothetically the kids were at “~0” risk right now (they’re absolutely not). The virus will want to mutate to affect more people more effectively, so it’s likely to evolve to start affecting a greater population of people than before, being the children. It’s like climate change. Say 99.9% of researchers are wrong and the few that are paid by places like the Heartland Institute happen to be right in the end. With the potential impacts being so unimaginably great, wouldn’t we feel better taking precautions and it being for nothing rather than risking going on our merry way to doom and destruction?


TrashBucketLad

Can't argue long term effects of this and not a new vaccine with also no study of long term effects in MRNA in children.


jornin_stuwb

Sure I can, we have decades of research into vaccines. The tech behind the mRNA vaccines has a good 20 years of research alone. Not one of you fucking plague rats saying this shit has come up with any credible mechanism that would indicate long term effects from vaccines. Let's not forget that even before COVID, the antivax movement has been completely full of shit, filled with scam artists who want to sell poisonous heavy metals as a treatment for autism. But your response is "whataboutism" simply because I was calling you out for your ghoulish take that there no danger to kids. You have no fucking evidence for that. With or without vaccines, exposing children to a novel virus that we don't know long term effects to is shortsighted and cruel. So don't fucking come at me with your antivax nonsense while you are making baseless claims about exposing children to vascular disease, because I am specifically focusing on the inherent cruelty of your comment.


SkittlesMcClure

Damn, you just murdered him in cold blood. Plague rats is hilarious, almost as good as St. Charles Spreadnecks


jornin_stuwb

Oh stop it, you're making me blush


TrashBucketLad

MRNA?


jornin_stuwb

Cool, you either don't know what mRNA means or you don't know how to use Google. That really doesn't help you out at all in this discussion.


TrashBucketLad

I am saying you can't compare the studies of normal vaccines vs an MRNA.


BetterThanAFoon

Read mRNA studies. They've been through safety studies long before COVID.


jornin_stuwb

And I'm still saying that you need to come up with any sort of credible mechanism that leans anywhere close to showing a problem. Which no one has done yet. >I am saying you can't compare the studies of normal vaccines vs an MRNA. Says who? Dumbass antivaxers, or the research into mRNA therapies that has been happening since 1990 when the first study was done with rats. The big problem with mRNA vaccines was trying to figure out the delivery system. This tech wasn't invented out of thin air because of COVID. Scientists have been studying this for a while now. And remember, antivaxers have a absolute shit track record about being right about anything related to vaccines. But this is still besides the point of you wanting to expose children to a viral infection that causes vascular problems. Because I'm going to keep hammering on that trash-ass take. Advocating to put children in harms way for 'reasons' is just about enough to discount anything that comes out of your mouth about anything. When has "let's put the kids in danger!" position ever been a good thing? That's traditionally been what the bad guys do since, like, forever.


Heyllamamama

If you did some research you would see the use of MRNA medicine and vaccines have been studied for decades. SARS COV-1, an earlier variant of COVID (SAR COV-2) has been studied and researching a MRNA vaccine since 2002. MRNA technology has also been used to treat cancer among other diseases. While the science is newer than traditional vaccine methods it’s in no way brand new and unstudied.


Hypocrisydenied

>Kids are at \~0 risk...and studies are showing prior infection is lasting a lot longer than vaccines. Everyone needs to claim down. These aren't 60 year olds. Learn to associate data with the risk group involved. Claim down? Claim down? Maybe you don't realize that kids have parents and grandparents.


CouldntBeMoreWhite

Those older folks should be vaccinated.


Hypocrisydenied

I agree. I'm just being sympathetic to those that can't be for whatever reason.


RustyKumquats

I appreciate what you did there.


racerx150

We sure have been told a lot about how to control this since March 2020. Remember when our "leaders" told us children couldn't get it? Like the virus knew who was 11 years old or younger. 50 years to make a Polio vaccine and to this day, we still deal with it and have countries with polio cases. I'm hoping they can really figure this out sooner than later. Having said all this, my wife was a public school teacher for 30 years in a poor district. I can tell you I've seen it all when it comes to virus. The assumption that any kid in school wearing these infested masks is going to stop the virus is kidding themselves. Parents of most of these kids are more interested in freeing themselves of their children at all cost. I don't know how many times my wife sent home sick kids or how many times my wife brought home the sickness. I have permanent ear damage from one of those virus incidents. If the child is sick, and is anywhere in a room or building, the virus will be everywhere. Until they really develop an effective vaccine, we will all be getting COVID. The mask part, I'm not sure. I would rather them test the kids coming into school. Even better, test them before they board the bus.


BetterThanAFoon

> The assumption that any kid in school wearing these infested masks is going to stop the virus is kidding themselves. I'm not sure anyone is under the illusion it will stop the virus as much as reduce the chance of transmission. It's not a silver bullet, but this coupled with social distancing measures has shown to be helpful. Throwing them out the window is throwing caution to the wind.


r0b0c0p316

> 50 years to make a Polio vaccine and to this day, we still deal with it The reason why we have a resurgence in polio in the US is because dumbasses have decided not to get vaccinated. We managed to eliminate small pox because everyone got vaccinated; we could eliminate polio and maybe in covid if people did the same. > Until they really develop an effective vaccine, we will all be getting COVID. The covid vaccines authorized for use in the US are incredibly effective. [Less than 4% of covid cases in the US are from vaccinated people](https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/). Less than 5% of covid hospitalizations are from vaccinated people. It is unquestionably true that the vaccines are effective, and everyone that is allowed to get them absolutely should.


evan1123

>We managed to eliminate small pox because everyone got vaccinated; we could eliminate polio and maybe in covid if people did the same. Smallpox and polio have no animal reservoirs, which makes them good candidates for eradication. COVID-19 and other coronaviruses do have animal reservoirs, primarily bats, which makes them a very poor choice to eradicate since they're always able to reemerge from the animal hosts.


Swimming_Lie_2822

This just asinine, everyone before 2020 would get COLDS,FLU,FEVERS, go to work and school sick. Kids spread flus and stomach bugs like water. No one gave a shit! You still sent your kid and yourself to school or work. Now people are afraid of each other? If all of you people would STOP for a minute and realize how the news and ALL forms of social media have you scared to death over people with a cold. Before anyone comes at me yes Covid does exist ,yes people are sick. BUT 99% have it and get over it just like a cold. So why are we putting ourselves through all this BS? If you keep acting like this it will never end!


bc5608

So is it serious then? How many are getting seriously ill and going to the hospital. Genuinely curious.


SnazzyZubloids

Ah. Zumwalt school district. Generally less well off and less educated than say... FHSD which is probably the next closest district.


luckystar246

Start the countdown till they have to go virtual. South High needed some major repairs already in the ceilings (but we had to get an astroturf field!), so I doubt the ventilation in those classrooms are up to code.


DicksHatBand

https://i.imgur.com/ZNm1nVI.jpg District comparison based on masking guidelines


lauquicol

Unless I’m not understanding correctly Lindbergh only has ten quarantined. Lots of covid precautions in place in Lindbergh but that still feels off to me! https://go.lindberghschools.ws/Page/16079