There’s about 50 million other things I would prefer having over that fucking trolley


How much of a real, functioning electric trolleybus system could i get for $50M? I suspect it could have gone more places with more cars... Maybe it could have connected a residential area with a commercial area, instead of running down the middle of a walkable retail district?


I will personally give piggy back rides to anyone that wants it to the zoo for 25 million...


It's a shame that East-West Gateway signed off on this rather than the CWE-Downtown Olive streetcar line.


There’s a ton of residential all along and in the near vicinity on both sides of the Loop, and a lot more being constructed on Debaliviere. It’s hardly just a retail district. Why would you rather connect a strictly residential area with a commercial area? You’d essentially only be serving residents of that one residential area who specifically need to go to that one commercial area. The current route can serve any number of people coming, going, traversing a growing, dense mixed use district while connecting to the region’s most popular amenity, Forest Park. All this trolley disdain is played out. Get it running to eliminate the threat of paying back $20 million to the FTA, incorporate it into the existing MetroLink system, and eventually the TDD should be able to fund operations. Then St. Louisans can focus their incessant pessimism on something else.


> There’s a ton of residential all along and in the near vicinity on both sides of the Loop and this trolley served none of it - they needed to get to work, school, groceries, and other personal business. not go to the history museum. > Why would you rather connect a strictly residential area with a commercial area? Caught me shooting from the hip. What i'd REALLY like is some sort of ... "metro transit authority" or something to maybe do research and propose what would meet the cities needs. Not letting Joe Edwards build a hype machine. My point is that the $3M we've sunk into this could have gotten REAL upgrades to our bus and transit system instead of a non-functioning hollywood setpiece. >All this trolley disdain is played out. ... incorporate it into the existing MetroLink system No no. These two things are related. Fancy pants got St. Louis to buy him a toy for in front of his favorite businesses - linking to the existing transit system was an afterthought. Those of us who actually want to see MetroLink thrive think this trolley is a fucking embarrassment.


By “incorporate into MetroLink” I was mainly talking about payment system, but better yet, just keep it free. The people who live there can maybe already use MetroLink to get to work or school. But they could also take the trolley to get to United Provisions or CVS or any number of restaurants or bars or retail that could be a upwards of a 20-30 minute walk from wherever they are on the route. During the summer heat, or winter cold, or inclement weather, or when you’re hauling groceries, that could be pretty useful. You also seem really concerned about $3 million but not the $20 million that FTA will come asking for while you’re out celebrating the trolley’s demise.


StL would benefit so much from proper public transit investment, but this thing isn’t it.


Fuck that trolley and fuck Joe Edwards. He should have to pay to get the whole debacle removed...


Light rail is amazing, when implemented in a way that serves the residents. This thing turned ~~something like $2 million~~ over 3 million local dollars into a $50 million federal grant, and the only people that could use it were tourists.


I agree, the trolley could really boost the area if used in a way that benefits the residents. To me this mean blocking all vehicle traffic on Delmar so that it's safe and comfortable for pedestrians to enjoy the loop without worrying about cars with the option of hopping on the trolley to get around.


Do you think the presence of cars on the street is a limiting factor for people visiting the loop? If cars were removed people would be more likely to visit? Naturally I try to run through the thinking in my head... “Honey where do you want to have dinner tonight?” “We haven’t been to the Loop in a while.” “Yeah but the cars. I mean, it would be so much nicer if we could just walk in the street rather than be confined to the sidewalks.” “That’s a good point. Let’s go to the outdoor mall in Old North, instead.” I dunno. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where traffic in the street is somehow a deterrent.


It creates an environment that allows you to fully relax and not worry about traffic, especially if you have kids or want to ride a skateboard. It creates more space for outdoor seating and you can turn the parking lots into parks. It also would allow them to remove all the huge concrete barriers they set up for pedestrian safety.


What you are describing is called a pedestrian mall. Their successes and failures have been widely documented if you want to do some light reading. Over 200 pedestrian malls have been attempted in the US, and only about 15 remain. They only work in extremely dense, high foot-traffic areas, of which STL has none. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-09/why-america-fell-out-of-love-with-the-pedestrian-mall https://www.governing.com/assessments/The-Strange-Troubled-History-of-Pedestrian-Malls.html


But to be clear — your thesis is that cars in the street is a limiting factor for people visiting the Loop?


Yes, in Europe there are many cities that have no cars or a light rail in the center of town and they have seen an increase in traffic after switching over. (New York did this too [Ted Talk from New York streets director](https://youtu.be/LujWrkYsl64))


Where are st Louisans going, then, that **does** offer car free streets instead of the Loop?


Nowhere it doesn't exist but if it did people would go there.


But you said that the traffic is a limiting factor which means people are going somewhere **instead** of the Loop because of the traffic.


The zoo, the city museum, union station.


It creates a really nice and relaxing atmosphere that is way more inviting for strolling and shopping. Ever been to Denver? They have a street with all the shops and restaurants, no cars, only a free hop on hop off bus. I really enjoyed that and think that could work great for the loop. East west traffic can easily be diverted to olive or forest park parkway imo


Denver and Boulder are both lovely, and have great outdoor malls. I’ve never chosen to visit either instead of the Loop or anywhere else within a 16hr drive.


If I pay enough, can I ride the trolley up Joe Edwards' ass?


# FUCK THE TROLLEY! Gas is around $3. I'm not seeing more people riding the bus to work (especially since Metro keeps cutting routes and services when they should be doing the opposite). We should be promoting the use of mass transit...and by mass transit, I mean routes that aren't 2.2 miles long and can be walked from end to end in 30 minutes.


Joe Edwards has always been delusional about this goddamn trolley's viability. He ought to be held responsible for the cost to remove that bullshit.


We must have his ponytail posthaste!


The downside Joe Edwards is this is a complete waste of money. The Trolley never was viable and never will be.


>“There’s **no downside** to having this grant approved,” asserted Joe Edwards, the Delmar Loop entrepreneur and longtime booster of the 2.2-mile line. “This is real. We can make it work.”


The Trolly should be donated to Metro and Metro needs to be brought into 21st century with tap and go riding. However, Metro can't even get basic security right so I don't imagine that ever happening.


> tap and go riding They already have this (if by tap and go you mean loading passes or money onto a card and then tapping the fare box or validator).


What about just walking onto the train?


Last I heard you had to tap every time but that may have changed.


Let. It. Die!!!


*Ding Ding Ding goes the Trolley....*


Spend some of the money removing the bullshit infrastructure of the trolley that fucked up Delmar, and use the rest to improve public transportation as whole between municipalities


I think there is already money in escrow specifically to “put the Loop right,” should we decide finally that the trolley is a failure.