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r/cringetopia argues at length over whether touching a male disney character's chest is considered groping and/or sexual harassment

r/cringetopia argues at length over whether touching a male disney character's chest is considered groping and/or sexual harassment

gntrr

Any type of body touching (within reason) without consent is not great. Don't touch people unless they're cool with it, people.


Chazybaz13

This is the answer. Do not touch people without their consent. Unless it's an emergency or to turn their attention toward something, it's pretty simple.


probablyuntrue

Wondering if someone is ok with something? Just ask! This concept has left many confused and befuddled somehow


HoblinSquab

I knew this one creeptastic asshat that expected sex from me just because I was screwing someone else in his house.... The sheer lapse of social awareness and comprehension in some people just doesn't exist. Or is it pure entitlement?


goatfuckersupreme

the latter probably stems from the former which is absolutely present


BumsYourDad

This depends on what culture you're in as well though. Some countries it's perfectly normal to be more tactile. This is a far cry from full on groping but this idea of being absolutely petrified of physical contact seems to be mainly a western country thing. Though I assume you were speaking to a western culture and not the entire world.


SecretFurryUsername

It depends vastly person to person too, and that's without even getting into the complexities of implied consent and cultural differences. Lots of people in the US are touchy feely, but *who* you're being tactile with and *in what context* usually determine whether it's appropriate or not. Our culture isn't inherently against touching, but the shift in the last 2 decades has been toward at least having permission/familiarity as the minimum acceptable courtesy. If someone I don't know touches me there are a million different factors that determine whether I'm going to say anything at all and how severe my response will be if I do. Context matters.


BumsYourDad

Well yes, which is exactly what I was talking about, context. My example was when I first moved to China. It was the country I least expected to be like that but they're actually very tactile in terms of how they interact with one another. Like friends will touch you on the shoulder or grab your knee when they're talking to you and it's not viewed as weird or pervy. My boss used to come in and grab my shoulders when I was working just to say hello. At first I was a little unsure of it but I was in THEIR culture so I acclimitised.


SecretFurryUsername

Yes! I was trying to add to/qualify what you were saying, not correct it per se.


BumsYourDad

Ahh got ya.


T_S_Venture

Some women are weird when guys are in costumes/uniforms. I went to a couple "fleet weeks" when I was in the Navy and I cant even count how many times my dick would get grabbed because I was in uniform. You expect it from younger women that seem drunk (like the woman in the video), but there was more than a few times when "calm" older women would ask politely to take a picture, and right before their friend takes it they turn into spring breakers for 10 seconds because they want a "crazy" picture to show their friends back home. Fleet weeks attract those kinds of people though, lots of bachelorette parties "coincidently" happen in NYC during fleet week. Me and my buddies even got paid a couple times to hang out with the group for an hour or two. Which is weird, but hey, free money and free drinks.


waaaayupyourbutthole

>I cant even count how many times my dick would get grabbed because I was in uniform. I'm sorry, fucking *what*‽ Like random women (I'm assuming) would just grab your junk because you were in a military uniform? What the heck is wrong with people? I can't imagine doing that and I was *very* drunk (and on drugs) for five years straight, in many, many situations.


wannabe_pineapple

It's the uniform that makes some women "brave". So disgusting. My husband is a firefighter and occasionally I'll meet him for lunch or something so we will be out and he has his uniform on. Women literally will come up to him and start grabbing his arms or putting their hands on him and say things like "oooh, a firefighter!! I love a man in uniform" like.... wtf? How is this ok?


Tenthyr

People in uniform are objectified, both in a sexual and fetishistic sense, but also because people seem to at some level view someone in a uniform as less a person and more a body connected to an ogranization. This happens a lot to men but, of course, women are just as vulnerable to it, such as nurses. Men are leery to do that with cultural awareness of sexism. There's a conversation to be had about the fact that men can be sexually assaulted in such ways, but that will inevitably lure on in "men's rights" types.


Proteandk

It must be a cultural thing. While it happens in my country it's nowhere as bad as described in here.


ChefExcellence

Yeah, there seems to be a perception that sexual harassment is acceptable if a man is wearing certain clothes. I like to wear kilts from time to time, but if I wear it anywhere people are drinking, it's a guarantee *something* will happen. Worst case, women will try and lift it up or reach under, which is thankfully rare, but every time without fail I at least get the "are you a true Scotsman?" question. I think most folk would agree that asking a stranger if they're wearing underwear is inappropriate, but if they're wearing a kilt then it's a laugh. Meanwhile, I've been inappropriately touched while wearing breeks no more than twice in my life.


BurstEDO

> there seems to be a perception that sexual harassment is acceptable if a man is wearing certain clothes DragonCon usually sees a legion of Spartans (The 300) in attendance annually. These guys are chiseled brick shithouses, tanned and just ... impressive. Plenty of horror stories from these guys about women in and around the Atlanta area getting all touchy handsy with it. The group has no participation guidelines (besides fitness, and even that's been relaxed for comedic effect). But some of the douchey ones encourage it while quite a few of the rest are alarmed and annoyed by it.


Deedeethecat2

I would love to see consent proactively reinforced in communities with cosplay etc. I volunteered at one large event that proactively gave information about consent via huge signs with great slogans. It was non gendered and gave information on how to get support and report. I was at the station available for support and information for folks experiencing sexual harassment, assault. People of all genders should be able to enjoy these events without being harassed/assaulted.


Single_Temporary8762

I’ve never been more groped by women than the Halloween I wore a dress. It was constant and deeeeep. We actually had to leave a party because one specific girl couldn’t keep her hands out from under my dress and my girlfriend was getting super angry.


Kalaxi50

Totally acceptable to physically defend yourself from sexual assault.


Single_Temporary8762

I’m a big dude, I’ll always just give a stern warning and then walk away. She really should have more worried about my partner though, she was a 6’ ex collegiate water polo player who I had to convince not to break her nose…lol.


waaaayupyourbutthole

As a chick, I would hope someone would give me a *hard* slap if I acted like that.


awh

[I heard this interview last year with a guy who wears a kilt for his job](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-thursday-edition-1.5817710/red-hot-chili-piper-a-kilt-is-not-an-invitation-for-groping-and-upskirt-photos-1.5817724). Apparently it's a common problem.


CombinationOpen

Is it common for men in Scotland to wear kilts? Is that actually a thing?


ChefExcellence

You'll usually see a lot of kilts at any formal dress event like weddings, graduations, etc., and they're traditional at ceilidhs (traditional dances, pronounced 'kay-lee'). Casual kilt-wearing is rarer, though it's not something most folk would think of as totally odd either, and I feel like it's been getting more common in recent years but that's just from my experience. Definitely more common for particularly 'Scottish' events - Burns Night, independence marches, and The Tartan Army (supporters of the Scotland football team) often wear kilts to games.


CombinationOpen

Cheers, thanks for the info, that's cool.


F00dbAby

Is it an age thing like do young boys wear kilts


Downtown-Tap3300

It's all ages.


BitePale

I love the name "The Tartan Army"


Andraltoid

You see it the same with bathrooms. Older women are fucking horrible with boundaries and will happily enter men's bathrooms smiling and laughing about how they made all the men at the urinals uncomfortable even when the women's bathroom is not full.


WholeLiterature

That’s a horrible violation and I’m sorry that happened to you. No one has the right to touch you without your explicit permission.


anrwlias

This is correct. Even if it's a thoroughly non-sexual kind of touch, don't do that unless you either know the person well or have their permission to touch them. \[I fucking hate salespeople who who try to lay hands on me to establish a rapport. Even if it's my shoulder, hands off!\]


Sillyvanya

It is every bit as sexual. The woman is touching him because she finds it sexually exciting, and people don't usually touch men's chests in the first place unless it's sexual contact. Just because it isn't seen as *quite* as erogenous as female breasts doesn't make it less sexual.


anrwlias

I wasn't saying otherwise. The "even if it's \[...\] non-sexual" part of my comment is to state that it doesn't even matter whether or not the contact was intended to be sexual; it's still wrong and, hence, debating whether or not it's sexual is to miss a bigger point because that doesn't matter.


Fawnet

I mean, to the best of my knowledge, you're not allowed to touch striptease dancers. They can touch *you* to whatever extent if you order a lapdance (I guess? I don't actually know this!) but you can't put your hands on them when they're dancing. It's an appallingly weird concept to me, though I admit that's because I had female relatives who lovingly pawed me and treated me like some kind of living American Girl doll when I was a kid. I'm 50 and still all like "Back! Back, I say!"


postmodest

A stripper once bit my dick through my pants at a bachelor party. I really don’t understand any part of the “stripper” concept.


Fawnet

Good lord! Yeah I only have secondhand knowledge from [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Nine-Lives-Schoolteacher-Year-Long-Workplace/dp/0393036731). I should read it again, I enjoyed it.


DetectiveFujiwara

The problem is that girls think it's okay to do it to men. I was a uber driver for 3 years. I got groped by so many women that thought it was okay. It's not right.


cottonthread

I've known women who have groped men and other women and they basically argued that it was "different" or "harmless" because unlike with a man groping a woman they aren't stronger and therefore not a threat. They also use the same "if they're uncomfortable with it they should tell me" argument, which puts all the responsibility on the other person to stop them from acting instead of on them to keep their hands to themselves.


RazarTuk

Is this the part where I talk about Katy Perry again?


Replyance

What happened with Katy Perry?


RazarTuk

Two counts of sexual assault. * Benjamin Glaze was a prospective contestant for the first season of the American Idol reboot and was 19 years old at the time. During his audition, he mentioned how he had never kissed anyone and was saving his first kiss for someone special. Katy Perry pressured him into coming up and giving her a kiss on the cheek, then after insisting on a second, turned her head at the last moment so it would be on the lips. And, of course, her co-judges just emphasized how he should be happy that his first kiss was Katy Perry. We know about this because they put it in the final cut of the episode * Josh Kloss doesn't have as detailed of a story, but he's a model from the Teenage Dream video who's accused Katy Perry of having pantsed him at a party once to show his dick off to everyone


Threwaway42

She also creepily exclaimed excitement about Bo Burnham being 18


WizardofStaz

To his very obvious utter mortification. He's mentioned in a couple interviews how weird it made him feel.


IceCreamBalloons

[Here's the clip if anyone wants to see his reaction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0quDfpfRUQ)


DiscoEthereum

I haven't watched a lot of Bo but his Katy Perry reference in Make Happy has layers to it now.


SmytheOrdo

Grocery job I had when i was younger had me get groped and spanked by two older coworkers. I felt kinda uncomfortable and just rolled with it I guess? Part of me liked the attention because I was still young and hormonally confused but I felt weird about it since both instances were done when literally no one was around to witness it within eyeshot.


Sugarbombs

Men do it too, I think it's just an entitlement thing. I would never touch someone unless we were close and it was appropriate and definitely don't think it's cool to just start feeling up dudes. I think it also probably has a lot to do with kids not really being taught bodily autonomy that's not in a sexual/molestation context. We teach them about bad touch like on genitals (which of course we should) but we also should teach stuff like healthy relationship boundaries and to not touch other people without consent. I can't tell you as a female how many times a man has touched my lower back to 'guide' me somewhere, or grabbed/patted my arms when we've just met.


T_S_Venture

Costumes/uniforms make people forget it's another person and not just a representation


DillonMeSoftly

While only the scummiest people prescribe to the "they were asking for it by the way they're dressed" mentality when it comes to "normal clothes", it seems like when the clothing in question is a costume, the amount of people who actually believe that nonsense skyrockets


ConiferousCocoa

A lot of idiotic narcissists think because *they* fetishise costumes and uniforms then no one could wear one except if they wanted to be reduced to a sex object.


vinc3den

yes obviously men do that but that's not the point here. this specific situation is about a woman feeling bold enough to do that to a man, trying to both-sides this is redundant. everyone is aware that men feel entitled to women's bodies, less acknowledge that women do the same shit.


Threwaway42

Yeah I wonder if these people also feel derailment of gender issues only go one way…


stormcloak-spy

It's definitely not an entitlement thing. Women are taught that men always want sex and it's the only thing we think about. The media, religions and schools have been showing men as sex addicts and women and innocent virgins for decades so that's the mentality people will go through life.


hill-o

Yeah basically. I don’t see why people even bring gender into the argument (except usually I see it as a weird way to blame feminism). Don’t touch people in ways they don’t want to be touched full stop it’s not that challenging.


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arbitrarist2

That just seems weird as fuck.


maynardftw

Yeah no that's just weird


HispanglOreo

What the fuck?


twodeepfouryou

You were molested by your parents my dude


TerryGonards

There's a reason you rarely saw Capt. Jack Sparrow walking around at Disney. And it's this x100.


boozername

I remember reading an article written by a Disneyparks Jack Sparrow, and he talked about how many women groped him and tried to slip him hotel keys and asked to fuck him. Super aggressive and assaulty. Not cool for anyone to do to anyone.


illit1

not cool at disney, but it *is* an amazing idea for an adult theme park ^^and ^^brothel.


boozername

Sure, maybe the Vegas strip has some Jack Sparrows stumbling around looking for clients.


lickedTators

Johnny Depp's just doing research for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 2: Electric Methaloo.


slib_

I have a few friends who work at Disneyland as Princesses and talk about how they get creepy comments from dads / uncles in front of their kids, but never groping (although I’m sure it happens). I have one friend who played Dr. Facilier who has a lot of horror stories about betting his ass slapped, getting kissed when taking a pic, grabbing at his crotch, grinding on him, so much so frequently he quit working at the park entirely. I can’t say I blame him.


Threwaway42

Damn, can’t anyone play sparrow without being assaulted? :(


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luck_panda

When I was at my best shape and still competing in combat sports, I would go to anime conventions dressed as Ippo from Hajime No Ippo. I would get touched by women all the time. Just like walking through a crowd and I'd get a clammy hand on my stomach.


Coyote__Jones

Ew. I used to go to cons, usually as Haruko from FLCL or more recently Lilith from Borderlands. To many hands. I'm all down to take a photo, I worked hard on my cosplay and am happy to get into character for a second. My Lilith pants were very authentic and were low cut, and a dude literally slid a hand in the back of them.... Just.... Don't touch people.


luck_panda

Yeah I don't understand. It's so gross.


antiquestrawberry

That's fucking disgusting wtf


Madrid_Supporter

Drunk, horny, with no boundaries. Regardless of gender people like that ruin everything for everyone.


CollectableRat

> rarely saw Ahh, but you *have* heard of him...


Artyloo

Is Jack Sparrow (the character itself, not Jack Sparrow as played by Johnny Depp) really that much of a sex symbol...?


TerryGonards

Oh god yes.


jashxn

CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow


Rabbidscool

Ahhh


ACommunistDaughter

You will always remember this as the day you almost groped Captain Jack Sparrow


icebergelishious

Just adding a note too, at the end of the video he says "there's children." Which should make it alot less controversial why he got upset


Nickrobl

Exactly. Even if he wanted her to grab him it was neither the time or place, not to mention that he's also on the clock. I don't see how this is even a topic for debate.


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seeingglass

I believe the most ardent defender of the woman in the video is also a woman who's trying to excuse the behavior as a "simple accident" when it's definitely a non-consensual behavior sexualizing another person.


ghoulsmashrr

She titty honks him and after he tells her to leave she goes in for another one!!! Hard to not touch the poopoo there


vaforit

So touching men is okay?


Deedeethecat2

That's not the read I got on that comment. I understood it to mean that the people debating it have the problem. In agreement that this shouldn't be up for debate. I definitely could be wrong. But that was my take.


Beatrice_Dragon

I think you entirely misinterpreted their comment


Threwaway42

They seem to be asserting thagb


BossNegative1060

Because men can’t be sexually assaulted. That’s reserved for women /s


TSM-

He is also probably given strict instructions that he is not allowed to take those kinds of photos as his character, and it happens so often that it is immediately super annoying. Especially Disney, who is typically very strict on their character actors. If he ignored it or didn't send her away, and that video was shared, that might get him a disciplinary strike.


SeasonActual

anyone who thinks there are any possible mitigating circumstances that would make it unacceptable for him to be upset is a humongous shithead.


HKEY_USER_CLOWN

*But I pay good money! A customer like me is the reason they get to provide for their family, I should be allowed!* /s Ever seen cunts like that? My cousin ladies and gentlemen, when I shared this thread with him...


VanderlyleNovember

14 downvotes and a gold, interesting combination.


successful_nothing

It happens pretty often https://www.reddit.com/r/NegativeWithGold/


1000smackaroos

So many racist posts, with another racist showing solidarity...


Gusisking

Lol that happened here when one of the mods replied to my comment on the thread about the new mod team


bambiartistic

Sometimes people will put awards on comments like that so people can see it


cavecricket49

Goddamn this guy is walking into *everything* >I’m sorry you’re barely literate >> Aw, personal insults, how surprising and original >> >It’s a good thing I’m not trying to be original >>>> Or smart


youre_being_creepy

You could probably get him with an up dog joke too lol


TheDuchyofWarsaw

deez nutes GOTEM


ghoulsmashrr

[deez nutes ](https://images.app.goo.gl/BMko5RgnMGixvyf8A)


Pepperoni_Admiral

[deez](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c5/Deandra_Reynolds.png/220px-Deandra_Reynolds.png) [nutes](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-canon-extended/images/7/7e/Nute3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180501025256)


M0n5tr0

She must have been confused when she heard there would be chip n dale here. All joking aside she is absolutely I'm the wrong and this isn't at all even slightly ok. He handled it well. All those people defending saying she was just posing and there was nothing sexual about must have missed the 2nd time she tried and just reached her hand out for his pec without posing at all.


Ingloriousbaxter32

When I saw it at first glance I thought she was just going to do that hands on the chest with a leg kicked back pose and thought it was innocent but the second time I caught that she actually groped his pecs. That’s completely inappropriate and gross. Im really glad to see general opinions on this sort of thing changing. A few years ago a clip was going around of a producer on Ellen hanging out with a contortionist, the guy had his legs behind his head and the producer went to slap his butt but accidentally hit his penis instead. I made a comment about how this is a good example for why people should just keep their hands to themselves. I got downvoted to hell and had people coming out of the woodwork to explain why I was wrong and it’s not a big deal to slap guys on the butt.


WhyLisaWhy

> I got downvoted to hell and had people coming out of the woodwork to explain why I was wrong and it’s not a big deal to slap guys on the butt. Yeah its fucking uncomfortable and weird, even on sports teams I hated that shit. It feels like a piss poor excuse to grope someone and I hate that people defend it. Same goes for friends that try to "cup check" you, I shut that shit down immediately the first time it ever happened.


M0n5tr0

I'm glad you brought up that example because it's perfect for this. Why would it be ok to slap that guys butt in the first place? It's so weird to do that it makes me think it was planned honestly. My ADHD make me Uber suspicious of scripted bits and alarms go off with that one especially now knowing what went on behimd scenes. What could be a better "gag" for them then hitting someone's privates "accidentally". Why would he slap someone's butt that he doesn't know either? So then I jump to it was planned to bring their favorite kind of humor out which is embarrassment and awkward encounters.


Kazlhor

Ohhhhhh THANK you! Now I get it - I didn't catch that and also thought she was just doing the "hands on chest, legs up" pose and was like "Ok, she touched him without consent and he was in the right to have her leave, but still...." But that shines some new light on this!


OldPersonName

I don't know anything about disney world but I'm guessing there's a 0 tolerance policy on touching the performers for reasons that should be obvious. Even if that were "innocent" touching (it isn't, but I guess that's the argument) if she thinks it's ok to do that she might start testing just where that boundary is and moving those hands somewhere else where he'd HAVE to react, breaking character and booting her ass out even more forcefully. I'm sure all these performers deal with this all day, every day, and know, better than any of us, what can be just a warning and what needs to get the person tossed. If you think this was just a warnable offense you should reconsider that with that in mind. EVEN IF you're the kind of guy who wouldn't mind this kind of contact with a girl you've been flirting with in a bar, you probably wouldn't appreciate it at work from a stranger, especially if your work is publicly performing for children!


ValeOfPnath_

Heres a tip, ask yourselves “would it be acceptable if a male did this to a female” If the answer is no, its sexual harassment.


RiskyBi5cuit

There are a lot of people in that thread who can't seem to grasp that. People even saying that men can't be sexually assaulted.


HeartyBeast

Not much drama here. Just one twerp, from the look of it.


cavecricket49

It's not the number of people involved, it's the quantity and quality. In this case, homeboy is pumping out the drama by the gallon.


LordFarquadOnAQuad

He's a one man bukkake of drama!


flight-of-the-dragon

Can I use that as my new flair?


LordFarquadOnAQuad

Absolutely


kciuq1

Well now my popcorn tastes funny.


ed4649

You’re right, but the post title is insinuating that there’s a genuine debate about sexual harassment on that subreddit rather than an overwhelming majority of commenters that agree that touching without consent = sexual harassment.


hypo-osmotic

There's a few more "it's not a big deal" in the full comments, but nobody melts down to the same extent as that one


Acceptable_Policy_51

But it's culture wars!


CleaveItToBeaver

I fought with your father in the Culture Wars. He was a cunning warrior... and a good friend.


-CorrectOpinion-

Knew as soon as I saw the post that the comments were gonna be zingers


lxUn1c0

>Maybe it was technically sexual assault, but appeared to be innocent. Ahh, yes, the type of *totally innocent behavior* that winds up just *technically* being sexual assault.


MemberOfSociety2

that relatable moment where you accidentally sexually assault a stranger happens to everyone


CJGamr01

"americans are so stupid, this isn't sexual assault, they aren't boobs!" "maybe just don't touch people who don't want to be touched?" "oh so if i patted someone on the back it would be rape then????? huh????? is that what you're saying?????"


DariusChonker

♫ No one touches Gaston! ♫ ♫ No one brushes Gaston! ♫ ♫ No one tells thots to leave in a rush like Gaston! ♫


AvengerMKII

You do that to a woman, it's sexual assault. Consent works both ways no matter what gender, sexual orientation, or whatever.


Vinniam

Horny women acting inappropriate deserve to get bonked just as much as horny men, what's so difficult to understand about that?


Threwaway42

Some people will defend their sexist biases to the day they die


Synikey

It's crazy anyone thinks they can argue against that tbh.


reptile7383

People always focus on man harassing women (which is totally an issue) but fan girls can be crazy, especially at conventions as stuff, and it always seems like their behavior is just shrugged off as they aren't as threatening as the guys.


Vinniam

Or people call the guy lucky and suggest he is an idiot for not wanting to be touched.


BananaStringTheory

I lunged at Ariel with my dinglehopper, and well, I have to settle for Universal Studios now.


Bikefry666

Lol


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B-WingPilot

> Disney isn't the place for that To my understanding, *this* is why they don't have a Tarzan anymore.


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ShonenHeart

But why Jack?


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gangsterroo

Sexy drunken pirates yes. Played by Johnny "The Sexy Pirate" Depp.


vaforit

Why would it not be serious? Someone touched someone else sexually without their consent. That is sexual harassment.


CarlOfOtters

Yeah I only ever see this used to minimize sexual assault. Like “yeah but it’s not *as bad* in this case because power dynamics or something.” What purpose does it serve to triage sexual harassment like that?


SeasonActual

The customer has more power than the person whose paycheck is on the line, so, using your own logic, it is actually more serious!


Petsweaters

She has more social power in the situation, so it's just a different power imbalance


Alex_Kamal

I dislike the not as serious argument (unless it is where to direct resources if needed) A man sexually harassing a woman could be a level 10 because of the strength differences. A woman may be a level 5 or so. But I prefer to keep all my sexual harassment to a nice low 1 where no one gets sexually harassed no matter how bad it is.


ClinkzGoesMyBones

>Women breasts are not the same thing as men chest. I agree that touching someone without consent is inappropriate, but you can compare touching a man chest with touching a woman arms or shoulders, not the tits. Surely touching a man's arms or shoulders is comparable with touching a woman's arms or shoulders, no?. They just say "WOW a woman's chest isn't at all like the same as a man's chest LMAO" without actually justifying it at all


hypo-osmotic

Yeah it's not like she tried to put her arm around him or lean on him, which might fall into the range that a reasonable person would think was OK, she was full on cupping his pecs


FireVanGorder

Exactly. Placing her hand on his chest with her arm around him would be weird for a Disney character photo, but probably wouldn’t get this reaction. She full on groped his chest. Totally justified reaction from the dude playing Gaston, and completely wholesome consideration for the kids all over the place as well.


Threwaway42

And honestly I think touching men’s and women’s chest should be treated legally the same when we do get to the point where women can be topless too


acethunder21

By their logic, sensually caressing a stranger's nose while moaning out of nowhere isn't a big deal since that body part isn't usually sexualized.


CerberusXt

> They just say "WOW a woman's chest isn't at all like the same as a man's chest LMAO" without actually justifying it at all Do you really need an explanation ? If yes, ask yourself why every man at the beach is topless and, generally speaking, almost no women are.


kichu200211

Because of societal limitations. And there exist beaches which offer alternatives to the common beach.


CerberusXt

Sure, but the societal consensus is, generally speaking, that woman chest is deemed inherently sexual while men chest aren't.


AccomplishedTwo7047

Doesn’t mean that we can grope men though


CerberusXt

100% agree, just that there is an additional layer of creepiness when the part groped is deemed sexual.


AccomplishedTwo7047

I don’t know why you don’t find men’s pecs sexual but that’s a personal perception you have. Yes, societally women are the over sexualized ones. Yes, societally boobs are sexualized more than pecs. But haven’t you ever seen a thirst trap of a muscular man? We sexualize men and muscles all the time. Hell, lots of people call men’s pecs “tits” because of this. I don’t think it’s fair to say it would’ve been *creepier* if it happened to a woman. I think it’s sufficiently creepy to watch someone repeatedly try to grope another person in public without gender being a factor. I appreciate that you’re pointing out societal misogyny, but we can’t do so while downplaying the very real threat of misandry.


CerberusXt

> But haven’t you ever seen a thirst trap of a muscular man? We sexualize men and muscles all the time. Hell, lots of people call men’s pecs “tits” because of this. Sure, but socially you can show them. I'm not saying it normal, or that it shouldn't be change, I'm trying to explain why it can be seen as more egregious.


AccomplishedTwo7047

If you think this perception should be changed, model that change. If you don’t think it should be considered less egregious just because it’s a man, then say that.


darkplonzo

I think there is something to say with how much more breasts are sexualized than a man's chest that there is a difference. Both are bad, but I think it's pretty reasonable to think one is worse.


lemondropkitten

Touching people without their consent is bad. *Groping* someone, depending on where, without their consent is more like sexual assault.


Bikefry666

Cringetopia is pretty much made up of neck beards, nazis, homophobes and degenerates with superiority complex’s


[deleted]

Don’t touch others without consent. Seems pretty easy


batkave

The fact that people think they can do what they want to character at these places is ridiculous. Spoke to enough people who are in costume to know how bad it is. People have suckered punches Gaston for example. People do it to think it's funny and then get upset at cast members for not doing a bunch of poses or meme like shots.


FFD1706

Yes it's groping. We need to be consistent in our views on sexual harassment across genders.


AnalRetentiveAnus

did the video really need a monologue to go with it


The_Third_Molar

Cringe within the cringe.


ghoulsmashrr

> motherfucker she grabbed his pecs are you >actually eye-infected? New flair? But anyways anyone who thinks this is okay behavior needs serious therapy. It’s Disney World not a strip club


communismisbadlul

Why do people in these kinds of subreddits always use these kinds of videos (whether it be a woman or a black person) to justify racism and sexism? Its weird as fuck


fat_doofus

Because they aren't really interested in sexual harassment or whatever. They're interested in finding evidence that groups they don't like are bad people. Just checked the subreddit, first five threads in order: A fat person did something bad A woman did something bad A woman did something bad A fat person did something bad A woman did something bad Young men come to these spaces so they can see "evidence" that their biases are correct, so they post and upvote cherrypicked evidence that reaffirms those biases.


Joao_Gaglio

>Because they aren't really interested in sexual harassment or whatever. They're interested in finding evidence that groups they don't like are bad people. Man, that's spot on. Cringetopia surely is one hell of a slow and consistent descend into internet radicalization.


boozername

Whenever you find a real asshole or idiot on reddit, chances are they post on Cringetopia, Publicfreakout, unpopularopinion, conservative, and/or conspiracy. They're really terrible subs.


Wismuth_Salix

Fwiw, UO is working on it. I’d argue that TrueOffMyChest has taken the “contrarian shitlord” crown.


fat_doofus

I read a book a while back about the history of the modern alt-right (which, btw, is a book I'd recommend to anyone who wants to know why there are so many fascists on the Internet), and one thing that's really stuck with me is that basically all modern far right groups are built around two central ideas: 1. Modern society is in decline 2. Women, and especially trans women, are to blame for this The idea that white nationalism is based on racism is almost a bit of a smokescreen. Sexism is consistently the thing that most clearly unites far right movements. "Cringe" subs, intentionally or no, reinforce and encourage this messaging by showing, over and over, examples of a society supposedly in decline, almost always due to the actions of women, LGBT people, or "SJWs." They cherrypick examples of individuals (most often teenagers or young adults with essentially no influence or power of any kind) and then say, "Look at how these people are ruining society. Noah get the boat. My faith in humanity is lost. Etc."


jupitaur9

What’s the book?


fat_doofus

Here's an Amazon link! https://www.amazon.com/Proud-Boys-White-Ethnostate-Imagination/dp/0807063363/ I bought it in January, because I had a gut feeling that between the Senate loss in GA and the Presidential loss, something really crazy was going to happen on Jan 6th and I wanted some context when it did. And... Yeah. I was drawn to it, ironically, because of its poor reviews on Amazon. When I looked through them, they were almost all from members of the Proud Boys or other far right movements whining about the book, and I thought, "Well if they hate then it's bound to be good." It's probably the most well-researched account of the rise of the far right I've ever seen and does an excellent job piecing it all together.


Proteandk

This sounds about right for I'd say 90% of the rhetorics coming from that side. It's not black men that's the problem, its that their daughters might date a black man. Still though, to me, it feels more like them blaming women is a tool to live out their racism. Not the goal itself.


fat_doofus

I think the racism follows naturally from the sexism, actually. To be sexist, you need to first believe in natural hierarchies (hello, Jordan Peterson fans). That is, men are naturally good at X, Y, and Z, and women are naturally good at P, Q, and R. So now you've consumed enough online propaganda that you've finally convinced yourself that it would be better if everybody found their natural, biologically-enforced role in society and then fulfilled that role. But, what about other hierarchies? Society is full of hierarchies. How many of *those* are natural (and therefore, you've decided, good)? Maybe you convince yourself that there are a lot of black athletes not due to a complex relationship between poverty, academia, and college sports scholarships... But because black people are naturally better athletes than whites (just like men are naturally better athletes than women, see), and that's just a biological fact. Maybe asian people really *are* just smarter than you, and that's why you see so many of them who are successful in STEM (just like men are naturally smarter than women, and that's why they succeed in STEM, see). Maybe white people rule the world because, well, that's just how it is, and it's natural that it should be that way (just like men, see). And we've already decided that natural things are good. Most white nationalists actually take offense to being called white supremacists, because they believe that other races are superior to them in certain ways, like human diversity is a D&D class system or something. They just think it's natural (and therefore good) that races are "different," and that they should be separated because different races come from different parts of the world and hey, that must be natural too. The base logic stays the same, but sexism is the honey that helps the redpill go down. Once you've convinced yourself that this flawed evolutionary psychology nonsense is real, the racism follows effortlessly.


Wismuth_Salix

Wow, the “a brown person did something bad” and “an LGBTQ+ person did something bad” posts have some catching up to do.


Alex_Kamal

Yeah it is annoying as hell as it delegitimises serious issues as no one knows if you are arguing in good faith or not. Do you care about all sexual harassment or are you weaponizing this one instance to own the feminist despite the fact that men are as bad or worst with this shit.


Dark-All-Day

*Video is of a woman sexually harassing a dude* *Commenter defending woman's behavior* You: the real villain is supposedly someone using this video to justify sexism


AsDevilsRun

The woman is obviously in the wrong, but some of the comments in the original thread are definitely using it as a blanket "women are bad and can't understand being told no."


FastTwo3328

>He could have said "I don't appreciate that, please don't do it again". He did Reddit when it happens to a woman: But men! Reddit when it happens to a man: Meh


HallucinatesSJWs

But they're pretty consistently downvoted and the submission has over 20,000 upvotes?


testertest8

Yeah this happens all the time. They do it with individual subreddits too. 'omg look at what this guy said, that subreddit is a hive of misogyny' then you actually look at the comment and its massively downvoted.


DingusThe8th

Or "A week ago the community said X, now it says Y! Why did your minds change so quickly?" When it's mostly two different groups.


VivaFate

The irony is palpable.


VivaFate

>They do it I fucking hate when They draw conclusions from a ridiculous, ill-defined They!


[deleted]

Welcome to reddit.


SeasonActual

what post did you read the comment replies to? Why do you think "reddit" is one dude in a thread full of a thousand people who disagree with him?


Threwaway42

Commenters here are saying but women too 🤦🏼‍♀️


ArniePalminator

Kinda glad all the cast members have to socially distance when they take pictures with guests


Marcobroa

Wheres the drama? It is. If a man laid his hand on a disney princess,he’d be destroyed. No means no


dandelionii

Not disagreeing with you about it being sexual harassment, but re: the latter part of your statement, when I worked in dw entertainment every single princess performer I met had dozens of stories about dads trying to cop a feel during a family picture (and worse). Sure, a couple get arrested, but most of the time they just have to grit their teeth and bear it in-character. Guests treating performers like playthings instead of people is a daily event at the parks, unfortunately.


reptile7383

That's a problem that Disney themselves has to fix, imo. They did to make sure that they employees are 100% protected.


Marcobroa

Thats really sad. People need to learn to keep their hands to themselves. People shouldnt be treated any different than someone on the street, just because theyre doing their job. Im happy some got arrested tho


Patient_Conference_4

Commented this on that post but going to drop it here too. First, comments saying this lady is a literal rapist and needs to be on the sex offenders list, get a grip. I was a Hooters Girl and men groped me almost daily, literally no one was arrested/shunned from society/ any of the other things people claim happen when “the roles are reversed”. I guess it’s too hard on the internet to say she was out of line because he obviously didn’t want it but that maybe there is a difference between that and full on sexual assault. I’m not saying either situation was okay just that women deal with this every single day and hordes of men aren’t being thrown in jail for it and also I am using “groped” to include situations like the video i.e. men putting their arms around my waist while I took their order, “fixing” my uniform, any number of small things like that to straight up grabbing my ass. Edit 2: all the top comments are like “no one takes sexual abuse against men seriously!” but people are upvoting the guy questioning my experience and there’s another person calling me an enabler of my own harassment 🤔


Proteandk

I firmly believe hooters uniforms should be electrified on the outside. Screw owl mascots. The time of the eel is now!


Deedeethecat2

I think both your experience and this worker's experience are not OK and there should be consequences. Sexual harassment should never be part of the job. Appreciating that you're sharing your experience. This is sadly too uncommon. I also believe in consequence or responses somewhere between doing nothing and full on incarceration sex offender for life status. But I'm not blaming anyone who has been victimized for how they responded. I'm thinking more proactive workplace safety that stands up for workers. (Dream world, I know)


SalmonTheSalesman

Why are they even arguing semantics? I don't want to be that guy buy there's never this many hurdles when it comes to seeing a video of some man groping a woman. Call it what is for both sides of field: Sexual assault. We're not gonna argue which is worse or the complexities of social and gender norms. **It. Is. Sexual. Assault.**


BurstEDO

>agree, it's a problem, but people make mistakes, and to me this appeared to be an innocent mistake. The mistake was treating him like a piece of meat. I doubt she learned from her "mistake". She was exploiting the "I believe I'm attractive so I can get away with bad behavior" privilege. She got rekt. And anyone siding with Ms Cutesy Touchy is a sociopath that should be avoided at all costs.