T O P

The decision to get rid of AA will go down as one of the greatest blunders in Jays history.

The decision to get rid of AA will go down as one of the greatest blunders in Jays history.

JWass11

Shitpost. AA didn't go to Atlanta right away, he went to LAD first. Much of the braves teams that won the previous few years were not built by AA at all. Shapiro has done a great job since taking over, taking the long approach (which was really only 2-3 years) and it looks like its going to payoff with sustained winning because of the young core, deep farm, and budget to spend.


33dogs

This needs to be higher. Not to knock AA's work in Atlanta, people who think he built the team haven't been paying attention. Acuna, Albies, Soroka, Freeman, Anderson, Riley, Swanson, Fried, and others were all in the Braves system before AA joined the team. He's def made some shrewd moves & contract deals but the credit for their roster is heavily shared by the former GM.


AuntBettysNutButter

It's absolutely fascinating to me that someone could have watched the second best Jays team in almost 30 seasons and come away from that wishing that we had a different front office. AA was great for us and he's been been great for the Braves. Him being great doesn't mean that our current front office hasn't also been great. This isn't zero sum, mate.


Zoidberg22

It's also a bit hilarious that people forget the narrative on AA before 2015. The majority of the fanbase wanted him and Gibbons gone after 2014. Remember not doing anything at the deadline that season and Bautista calling him out? He was great in spurts, but he's a win now GM, not a dynastic one.


DeenzGrabber

I remember all that and discussing it online and offline. But the exciting trade acquisitions at the deadline in 2015 and the resulting playoffs were enough to wipe clean any other public memory of his tenure. A playoff starved team brought new fans for those 3 months who only saw the fact he was Canadian and 'let go' right after the minor success, a division title and a batflip, although exciting was all it took for this new narrative to enshrine holy Alex. I wanted Alex back as i thought unfinished business was at hand but in a baseball sense what would he have done differently in 2016 to motivate the players to stop being old and bitter swinging for the fences every at bat if notorious 'players manager' John Gibbons couldn't?


Zoidberg22

Yup


TheGursh

2nd best Jays' team in 30 seasons, wtf?


seemedlikeagoodplan

Start at 1994, which is getting close to 30 years ago. Aside from the 2015 team, which Jays team was better than the one this year?


TheGursh

2015 , 2016, 1991, 1992, 1993 Not even a top 5 team over that span


seemedlikeagoodplan

> Start at 1994 And was this team really worse than 2016? They won more games in what was probably a harder division.


TheGursh

> Start at 1994 No. > And is this team really worse than 2016 Yes. They made the playoffs in 2016 and made it to ALCS.


seemedlikeagoodplan

Out of morbid curiosity, would you say the Jays are worse than the 2021 Braves and Cardinals? Those teams made the playoffs.


TheGursh

No but I would say the Jays were worse than the Yankees and BoSox which is more the comparable. Worse teamsthan the Jays on paper. Better teams on the field.


casualjayguy

The 2016 AL was much weaker and less top heavy, that's part of what makes the 2021 Jays not being in the playoffs hurt so much 2021's offense and starting rotation are better enough that in a hypothetical 7 game series between the 2 teams I'd honestly take 2021 in five


TheGursh

The 2016 team found ways to win big games. The 2021 team found ways to lose them. That was the main difference. Also part of the learning process.


casualjayguy

That's odd, when I look at the teams' records I see that the 2021 Jays found a way to win 2 more games than the 2016 Jays


TheGursh

Its odd because when you look at the records one won enough games to advance and the other didn't. You'd also notice the one that didn't advance blew critical games down the stretch (and all year)


AuntBettysNutButter

> The 2016 team found ways to win big games Now you're really just making shit up because no one could come away from September 2016 and think that the 2016 team won big games, at least not moreso than the 2021 team.


TheGursh

They won huge games in the post season, tgroyghout the year and in September. They put themselves in a tough spot the last month and pulled it off.


AuntBettysNutButter

I never said "in 30 seasons". I specifically worded it "in almost 30 seasons" so people would assume I meant-post 93.


TheGursh

Yes, if you exclude the good teams then this one was great!


rawbamatic

You need some IRL friends.


AuntBettysNutButter

You must be a ton of fun at parties.


Chipdip88

Put the NL East "winners" in to the AL east for a season and see if they are even above the .500 mark let alone make the playoffs....


VGUZI

I mean Braves had last year's MVP and almost this year's MVP until Acuna tore his ACL. Plus they have Albies, Riley, Swanson and Ozuna who's out. This Braves team is pretty stacked, and theres a reason they're in the NLCS up 2-0 to the best team in baseball.


Castle-Creations

AA was GM here for 7 years. I'm genuinely glad he's found success in Atlanta. But thinking of his tenure here as some golden age in Blue Jays history requires you to forget about 95% of it. I'm far from convinced we'd be better off today if he was still here, and even less convinced we'd be doing better in the future. Your analysis saying otherwise is about as deep and someone picking the best pitchers based on number of wins.


Zoidberg22

Player development (especially position players) under AA was kinda garbage. The best homegrown position he developed was Pillar. While he did draft and develop Stroman, and Sanchez as pitchers, the majority of his rosters were free agents/trades rather than drafted players.


frankyseven

Yep, AA was here for seven years and made the playoffs once. Shatkins has been here for six seasons and made the playoffs twice and we missed out on a playoff spot on the last day of the season this year with a better record than all but one season AA has ever had as a GM. AA was good but I'm glad that Shatkins is around now.


attersonjb

AA gets at least a half-share of 2016 credit, no?


laflamablanca_32

Who shit in this guys’ cornflakes this morning? Shatkins is doing just fine.


ThQp

lol lets fucking goooo it's been too long since we had one of these


Peechez

Seconding OP tbh, this morning Atkins sawed the bottom 5 inches off one of my dining room table legs and Shpairo left me an upper decker. On the other hand, back in 2015 AA would always come by and give me good morning hand jobs. Not even a close decision tbh


Sycendin

Yeah, I don't know what everyone else is talking about. Shapiro and Atkins poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses!


intecknicolour

nah. aa was good. shatkins also good. put us in the nl east and we walk the division


casualjayguy

The Jays would have won the NL East by 3 games. And that's without accounting for the fact that being there would have gotten them 19 games against easier opponents than the Rays, Red Sox, and Yankees.


IAmGrum

Jays vs AL East: 42-34, .553 win% Jays vs NL East: 14-6, .700 win% Braves vs AL East: 6-14, .300 win% Braves vs NL East: 45-31, .593 win%


togocann49

Pretty sure AA left on his own. It was his choice, not the Jays.


Foltbolt

He was offered a one year extension. They did not exactly roll out the red carpet for him. Like, we can be happy with the state of the team right now without doing this. Ya know?


seaQuest_DSV_4600

Wrong. Shapiro made it clear that he wasn't going to keep AA around when he criticized him for trading all those "prospects" away in 2015. Trades that got us to the postseason and only cost us prospects that have done fuck all since. AA quit rather than stay around to be fired by a dude that clearly doesn't get what it takes to win.


KamalATFP

Reminder that Noah Syndergaard and Travis D’Arnaud were both in that list of “prospects that have done fuck all since”


33dogs

[https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays-after-rejecting-extension/](https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays-after-rejecting-extension/) [https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/10/29/gm-alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays.html](https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/10/29/gm-alex-anthopoulos-leaving-blue-jays.html) The Jays made an extension offer to AA. Alex rejected it and left the org. Not everyone can know every detail so it's ok if you didn't know this but now that you do, let's hope you stop repeating this fallacy.


laflamablanca_32

Was Shapiro wrong? I would’ve much rather had Syndergaard over Dickey during those playoff pushes.


AuntBettysNutButter

*Syndergaard was a 2012/2013 trade. Not sure if Shapiro was simply criticizing AA's trades in 2015 or beyond but figured I'd point that out


togocann49

Pretty sure Alex rejected extension. Whether it was decent or not, couldn’t tell you. I’m sure his relationship with Shapiro figured in.


VarRalapo

The NL east sucks ass though. Jays had a better record in a MUCH harder division this year. Shapiro did well this year, sometimes you just get unlucky, 91 wins is great result.


JaysCrazeAmaze

If the Blue Jays and the Braves swapped leagues, we would be a perennial playoff team, while the Braves would be feasted on by the Rays, Yankees, and the Red Sox. In fact, this year, the Blue Jays won all games against the Braves, both in ~~Toronto~~ ~~Buffalo~~ Dunedin and in ~~Atlanta~~ Cobb County. It makes no difference if AA or Atkins were GM.


seemedlikeagoodplan

This is worth pointing out. We won 91 games playing in arguably the hardest division in MLB, and the Braves won 88 games in one of the easiest. How does this prove that their GM is better than our GM?


runwalkbikebeactive

This post is soooo wrong I’ll give him credit for his free agent signings. But it’s not like he built this from the bottom up.


Supersonic9119

The premise is flawed but I’ll agree with OP that this season could very much be a fluke & not the true norm of this team moving ahead.


tofilmfan

I'm glad people are ripping this post apart. How can you fault the work Shapiro/Atkins have done? They've built one of the best teams in baseball, with a terrific farm system and payroll flexibility. They've made some gutsy decisions that pissed people off at first, but ended up being the right calls (ie. not resigning David Price) and they've also stepped up and signed high end free agents. A lot of people have rightfully pointed out the baseball operations but look at the other things Shapiro has done. He helped turn around the spring training facility from a laughing stock to one of the best facilities in baseball. I have no doubt he'll do the same once new plans for a stadium are announced. The in game experience has been better since Shapiro took over the team, although this just might be me. AA did some masterful moves but he never prioritized depth like Shapiro and Atkins do and that's what I think cost the Jays teams during most of his tenure.


EsperBahamut

I mean, the Braves play in literally the worst division in baseball. Even Baltimore could probably be competitive in the NL East.


tofilmfan

I wouldn't go that far... Baltimore wouldn't be competitive in my slo pitch men's league...


blazinrainbo

I cannot imagine a scenario where someone could be more wrong.


MassiveHovercraft

Jays had a better record than Atlanta this year… Unless AA somehow caused the NL East to be shit, I’m happy with our 91 wins over ATL’s 88


Vehicle025

AA turned down a contract extention, they did not "get rid" of him. Worth noting is he also parachuted into a gold mine in Atlanta. The team was near built, full of incredible talent and ready for a long run of success.