Lab intern demands to work maskless and not only gets fired, but risks her entire future career
By - Rwbyy
Funny how she understood and accepted she had been brainwashed and was able to overcome all of it so quickly. That's not how it works. If you're victim of brainwashing you by the very definition of the word can't just instantly shake it off. It's as if she didn't believe to that crap to begin with and was just using it as an excuse to be nasty little brat. Or you know, she's full of shit. Take your pick.
And if social media of all things can twist your mind to that extent, maybe you aren't a person who should be given any responsibilities, at all. You are stupid and gullible to dangerous degree
It seems obvious to me (assuming the whole story in the post is true) that the bit about "admitting to be brainwashed" was just a lie she told to dodge consequences. Telling them what they wanted to hear.
“He thinks I’m a brainwashed person, but he’s just a sheep so I’ll tell him what he wants to hear.”
This is such a standard tactic of people that think they are smart. They really think they are smarter than people around them, and no one will instantly see what they are doing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she got that idea because someone in her personal life actually did try to help her by telling her she was being brainwashed social media
Like that dude that raided the capital. 😆
I have a friend who’s a nurse. Multiple other nurses she works with were covid/mask deniers. One of them actually ended up getting it, probably not from the hospital they work at but because I’m sure she was out doing dumb shit like throwing maskless, non-distanced barbecues and the like. This was after their hospital started getting cases, too. Insanity can strike anywhere.
Lots of nurses aren't nurses because they want to be medical professionals. They're nurses because it's an in-demand job that pays high hourly (and hence overtime) wages.
Can confirm. Close friend is a nurse who also shills DoTerra essential oils as medical aids. I’m like you’re supposed to be on the side of science how can you support this rubbish?!
Essential oils are called "essential" because they contain the essence of the fragrance. They aren't essential to your well-being as they are frequently marketed. If someone wants their bathroom to smell like cinnamon or lemnongrass go for it. But if they think that is going to improve digestion or treat diabetes, I sure hope they stick to a healthy diet and take their medications.
Everyone should start calling them "essence oils" or something just to emphasize that they are not medically essential.
"Oil of _____" DnD has it right
Personally, I have a shelf of like…80 essential oils.
I also have an amateur soap making hobby, and I use them for fragrance. I also diffuse them I’m a couple of diffusers I have because I like the smell.
Claiming they “cure cancer” is ah…mildly insane.
Random reminder to be careful if you have a cat or dog, I've seen several posts about people accidentally killing their pet because they were diffusing things toxic to animals.
I do have a dog, who has horrible horrible allergies, so I have a very very very tight list of “diffusion” friendly oils, and generally only for short periods, in rooms with generous airflow, and larger rooms only.
Thank you for the reminder for the less careful though!
> Claiming they “cure cancer” is ah…~~mildly~~ radically insane.
If I had a nickel for every time one of the yoga people I know told me I could stop taking insulin if I started using essential oils......
Oi. Makes my blood boil. Not only do some people fall for this shit and get hurt, but it also just assumes everyone who's sick is stupid and wasting ridiculous amounts of money on their treatment.
I like mixing my own fragrances, so I often buy essential oils. I meet some incredibly strange people who put perfume oils in food. Never tell one of those people that perfume oils aren't for human consumption, they go nuts.
& it doesnt make sense. It's not like nurses get by one one bio class or something. My mom was a nurse 25+ years and I had multiple friends in college in the nursing program..the work Is HEAVY in the sciences and requires a lot more knowledge of infectious disease than I would have imagined...its fucking RIDICULOUS that any RN would disbelieve literally everything they were taught lol
I can provide some insight here. I'm currently lining up a PhD in genomics but back when I was a little 2nd year science student, I once caught sight of my friend's (second year nursing student) quiz. She was buying food at the time so I casually flicked through it and circled the correct answers in pencil.
When she got back, her eyes went wide and I learned that this was a marked quiz for real marks and she'd already spent half an hour on it. I assured her that all the answers I'd written down were correct and we quickly went over them together.
This always stuck with me because it was quite clear that she thought she was getting a science education but once I was exposed to it, her science education was science-lite.
That's when it occurred to me: You don't want to teach nurses science because we're always asking inconvenient questions. You want to teach nurses a whole bunch of science knowledge that is practical but it's fine to go light on the intricate details.
This is because we do very different jobs. If a scientist forgets where the cubital vein is, they can just look it up on wikipedia and move on with their day. If a nurse forgets that, there's the potential for pain, blood, shouting and lawsuits.
This is kinda long but I find it's a good story to contrast two different jobs and how the same knowledge can be presented in two different ways. I was supposed to explore the knowledge but she was supposed to believe it.
What a great way of putting it into context. I'm still scared of the nurses who are denying their "science-lite" education. Of course an undergrad degree and an exam is not enough to make any one person knowledgeable in a lot of areas but my god, I'm happy the nurses I know arent deniers of the very things they were overtly taught.
That's interesting...nurses can often be very dogmatic in their views on things...I've often wondered about that. They can be incurious about deeper explanations for things.
In college, I TAed the lab section of a class called "Biology for Non-Science Majors".
Now, we did actually teach them science.
However, it was obviously a science light class because it was separate from the other class "Biology for Science Majors".
All of the pre-med students and science majors took the Biology for Science Majors class.
All of the pre-nursing students were in the Biology for Non-Science Majors class that I was a TA in.
In bio 101/204.7/302/405, they don't teach you critical thinking. It's mostly memorization of certain biological processes.
My biology degree included a mandatory course called :Critical Thinking in Sciences. The curriculum included how to read a scientific paper, correlation vs causation, critical issues, and other similar topics. Maybe universities need to revisit their course requirements after the pandemic proved that science degree does not equal science understanding.
My bio degree required a biosynthesis class where the professor talked about his startup the whole time, lol.
Your course requirement sounds much better.
This should be in early highschool science. Would have been a great Year 9 or 10 course.
Too many people have their first experiences of statistics being dominated by the superstitious narratives promoted by the gambling industry.
You may have unintentionally made a good point about choosing your school wisely. Clearly some schools are more concerned with your degree while others are concerned about your carrier.
She was meant to bring sense to the workforce, not destroy it!
I’ve known more than a few nurses who go into the field looking to snag a doctor husband.
We call those "MRS" degrees...
Isn't the MRS degree specific to girls who attend university specifically to find a well-educated husband?
That's what I thought too, but I guess there's nothing stopping enterprising young women from double majoring in RN and MRS.
Exactly. They're from a pool of women who were torn between nursing and cosmetology.
I am a nurse on a med/surge unit, I 100% agree with your comment. There are very few nurses in this field that truly care, then you have the ones in it for the money. They complain all the time about the stupidest shit.
Nursing is a brutal field to work in cause of this type of BS & all the drama that comes along. You have to deal with msnagments bs, stupid policies that are irrelevant, pissed of patients/family members during a 12 hour shift, nurse drama, and the occasional dickhead of a doctor.
But I always try care to for my patients, old people make my day.
That’s disheartening to read as I’ve been a patient my whole life being born with a genetic disease. I always try to be kind, considerate, and thankful to the nursing staff. I’m glad you care. It’s terrifying at times being so sick and vulnerable and when a nurse or doctor treats you like a slab of meat on an assembly line it makes you feel worthless.
This type of shit breaks my heart. I don't know what genetic disease you have, but I hope you have a great life. I wish you the best.
You're the type of nurse I love shadowing. Last year of school so wish me luck
Just wanted to thank you, as a young person who had to be in the hospital not too long ago. It wasn't a very serious incident, and I felt like I was burdening the staff because COVID was taking place and my problem seemed minor in comparison, but I experienced nothing but the most kind and compassionate people while I was there. Nurses like you, and like them, keep me from fearing hospital visits, and keep me very humble about my own life. It's a hard, sometimes thankless job, and you deserve more respect than you're given. But I can promise as a patient that we remember those who care for us when we're at our most vulnerable. Thank you for your hard work.
I’m not a conspiracy theorizing noodle brain, but that’s why I’m a nurse.
Most of the nurses I know were women who peaked in high school.
I'm in my thirties and told my nursing friend that I like being my age because I'm getting better and better everyday. She told me "That's sad because that means you never had much of a life. " I told her "I'm sorry you peaked in high school but I like to actively get better". She didn't like it.
How the hell is that what she deduced from that and had to say? What a strange response
How does she know your trough isn't her peak?
Maybe she isn't that good of a nurse either
It's a safe career path. Four years in school, make decent money. A lot of parents push that, so do counselors
2 years of school. You can become an RN with an associate's degree.
There isn’t a way in my state to become a nurse in 2 years. To get entry into the 2 year associate program you have to do other stuff first and it’s super competitive. It can take years of applying and getting points added to your “score” before you are accepted to a program Also most hospitals are starting to only employ BSNs (for sure the ones here) and let their long time staff know they had 6 years to get that done. This was years ago so it’s possible they are all BSNs now.
I’m sure with the current mass exodus of nurses, they will have to go back to accepting RNs with an associates only.
I graduated with my associates in nursing, the hospital I work at set a deadline for us to get a BSN. It depends on the state, but I agree with you. A majority of my co-workers have an associates degree & none of them want to get their Bachelors degree.
It's bullshit, and they know it. Unless the hospital wants to to foot the bill (including paid time to attend class and study), it's a messed up ask. It shouldn't be legal to require 2 (or more in some cases) years of college to do a job you are already doing.
You can do an associate, start working as an LPN, and then even get the remainder of your RN online while working. It’s one of the easiest degrees to get. Source: sister is a nurse and I proofread all of her 3rd and 4th year papers. It’s more social community work related reporting than any higher end math or science.
Where at are you in the US? I work in a state with one of the premier BSN programs and everyone here still hires RNs regularly. I’m a paramedic and while nurses have 2 years of school to our 1 (beyond the required 2 years of pre-req schooling for both), I will say confidently from my friends going into nursing is that 2nd year is just clinical time (which is amazing and I’m not dissing) and I feel our education is pretty equivalent (different focus but amount of knowledge regardless of area). I find it amazing that I can administer drugs, intubate people, , needle decompress all without a doctors orders, but I get paid half.
And when talking about clinical time I sooooo wish medics had the same amount, but then with our pay it’s just not worth it
In my experience, it seems to be the next step after cheerleading for many.
Get up, get up, let's go.(Clap)(Circle your arms) Go! Go Doctors. Go Doctors Go!
For a lot of nurses it's a chance to get paid to be catty bullies, too. Too many of them act like the slight scrap of authority they have means they can be condescending, uncaring pricks to patients or even their coworkers.
It's the equivalent of being a cop without all of the social baggage.
Not surprisingly a lot of nurses end up marrying cops or others in LEO professions.
My sister is an administrator at a hospital; she has talked to me before about the amount of “medical professionals“ who just blatantly deny science. She said it’s truly frightening, and demonstrates that many people are just in it for the paycheck, not for the purpose of providing the best healthcare, based on facts.
Most people are in as "technicians", not scientists. You don't need a scientific mind to be a nurse or even a doctor. That's why you still get a lot of these weird shit spreading in a community that you will think is supposed to base the practices of their professions on rational, objective thought process.
SIL is a nurse (or might not be soon)…she’s super anti vaxx and anti mask,corona is fake,etc. two of my wife’s uncles passed from it (also SIL’s uncles),one aunt is permanently on an oxygen tank and even after all that still insists it’s fake..well her hospital just made it mandatory and she and 20-30 nurses are fighting it…there union and the hospital both came back with a resounding fuck you so now she’s crying about religious freedom (never been to church a day of her life). They are shitting bricks now because of the recent precedent set in Texas over nurses lawsuit against medical facilities for the objection to vaccination.
In short, there are many idiots in the medical industry, there hypocritical oath was just a financial stepping stone.
“I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling. With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care.”
My daughter is an e.r. Tech who worked triage during the pandemic rush on emergency rooms,she is currently in nursing school and the fire works in watching a 22 year old school her own aunt in microbiology/virology/bio chem. is pretty entertaining..would be all out funny if it wasn’t for the fact that SIL has placed her own bias above her patient/oath thus risking the health of the very patients she swore to protect.
I’ve been following the legal end of all that, as I have a sister attending law school right now and they’re spending a lot of time on the subject. Basically what it comes down to is the same thing I told the guys at my place of employment when they whined and cried for weeks about wearing masks:
“You are here by your own choice. You are free to seek employment elsewhere if you feel that the PPE requirements here are too much to bear. If our employer decides that we must all wear bright pink vests with fluffy bunny tails for visibility reasons, then that’s what we will wear. Suck it up.”
We had a coworker at the time who was severely immunocompromised due to cancer treatments. Most of these guys couldn’t even be bothered to put a mask on around this person. I just can’t fathom being so selfish and so much of an ass, and that a person can feel just fine about that behavior.
I used to lean libertarian because I thought people were basically or inherently good and that everyone should be free to make their own choices for themselves, but that most would do what they could for the common good. Then the pandemic hit and I saw how many people would throw their own grandmother under a bus to avoid even the most minor inconvenience. I was an idiot, people fucking suck.
Who knew, rules and regulations are actually a good thing!
Libertarianism is the political philosophy of sociopaths and adolescent boys.
It's essentially "you can't tell me what to do, mom!" turned into a political ideology.
It's mostly a childish fantasy where they get all the benefits of society without paying for it. Few would want to live in the max mad hellscape a real libertarian government would result in.
The arguments I've seen seem to be circular around "people would just do the right thing". (or further, that it's exclusively laws that make people do bad things)
But that's clearly not the case- anytime something isn't airtight someone will exploit it. "Oh you never told me I couldn't do x" even while doing x is clearly harming others.
The structure of the proposed governments in some arguments are not logical because they assume that everyone will just be ok even if they chose different rulings on the same issue. In the real world sometimes you can't have it both ways. (Possibly not even thinking of the ramifications of someone choosing an opposing option beyond "they'll be free to do so, and freedom is good")
It's argued that it's not anarchy (Due to having some structure) but it might as well be if the structure is up to everyone independently.
I always ask them to name me a successful Libertarian government.
Exactly, same for going into a private establishment. The amount of people talking confidently about freedoms with no understanding of them over the past year has been hilarious
Hippocratic oath. But hypocritical fits here too.
The only reason I (35 year old) got vaccinated so early in the rollout, in January was because so many patient facing workers in my hospital refused. The hospital ordered a dose each for its workers who have daily patient contact, the amount who refused enabled the finance and procurement team to get theirs first.
I'm a nurse, and it's really sad and pathetic how many other nurses I've worked with that act like it's no big deal and are anti-mask and anti-vaxx.
Thanks for being one of the good ones.
My partner's mom was a nurse at a retirement home and was fired for refusing to get vaccinated. She can't afford to be without a job, they're in a town that's poor as shit, but she refused a vaccination despite knowing she'd be fired AND knowing that her elderly patients are among the most vulnerable to covid.
It's nuts, I just don't get people like this. My partner even says that his mom used to be reasonable, but the past four years changed her, and not for the better.
I was on the phone with my father today, who said that my (ex-nurse, anti-vax, anti-mask) mother is visiting someone at the hospital and her car won't start and she won't go to Canadian Tire to get a new battery because they will make her wear a mask for the 10 minutes that it takes to buy a battery. And why doesn't she wear a mask in an actual factual *hospital?!* I was afraid to ask too many questions, but I can't fathom this attitude of hugely inconveniencing yourself to stick it to the man by not wearing a mask. Even if you think it's ridiculous, it's 10 minutes, slap it on and get er done.
The worst anti masker/antivax/conspiracy Q nut jobs I’ve known have been nurses. I don’t know if it’s the profession that attracts nut jobs or the fact that becoming a nurse tends to be a backup job for a lot of people who weren’t doing anything else.
It's the former; the profession attracts a lot of people who covet the respect of working in medicine, but don't actually want to learn about medicine.
It's a damn shame too, because the profession also attracts lovely and smart people who do want to learn medicine, but don't have the resources to go to medical school.
I know a bunch of people that just get into medicine because they can get a job that pays well, and you can move out of care into administrative postions
Another really good thing about going into this profession:
Say you're a ski bum or (like me) a trout bum, or something like that. You LIVE to ski or fish trout or whatever. What you do is get a nursing degree. Then you take a job as an "agency nurse." This is someone who works in a hospital as a nurse, but you're not a full-time employee of the hospital. Instead, you work for a nursing agency who hires you out to the hospital. You fill in when they're temporarily short staffed or having trouble getting people to hire on.
You make a lot more money than the full-time nurses, because your job is temporary and you don't get benefits. You make plenty to be able to afford your own private medical insurance, though, especially since the ACA has been passed. In some places, like in Alaska, they're in such high demand that if you sign on for six months or more, they provide you with an apartment and a rental car.
And you travel around the country, living for anywhere from a few months to a year or so at the location of your choice. If you're a ski bum you live/work in Aspen or Alta or wherever. Or, if you're a trout bum you live in Colorado or Paradise Valley in Montana or Missoula or some other trout mecca. You make good money, excellent money, and you live right near what it is that you love to do.
The next year you get assigned somewhere else. Or maybe you fish spring/summer in Montana and then in the fall/winter maybe you go to the Pacific Northwest and fish steelhead. In any case, it's really an excellent profession for feeding your jones.
I've met more than a few people like this on trout streams. They all seem really happy. Eventually they'll meet someone that's special to them and settle down in one place. But in the mean time, for a young, single fly fishing freak/snowboarder/surfer/whatever, it's PERFECT.
There's also a third group... people that want to be nurses and are damn good at it. Not every nurse is a med school wannabe or gold digger.
Everyone in my family that went in to nursing had an absolute passion for nursing and it was never a second choice
I got to be around a lot of nurses whenever I accompanied my dad for his chemo treatments. Every nurse there was awesome to be around. I never heard my dad complain about any of them. When covid came around, they didn't allow visitors inside the building, but I knew my dad had great company.
Seriously. This fucking thread.
I know a nurse with an MPH who thinks social distancing is detrimental and doesn’t work and started saying so in a meeting with a bunch of Physicians who were talking about it, including one that I coauthored a paper with about COVID mitigation in nursing homes (I’m not a physician just did all the data).
…the only thing they were saying was that it should have been called “physical distancing” in hindsight.
Travel nurse here. I’m pretty disgusted by the responses I am seeing here. Your opinion of one person you know who is a nurse is anecdotal and stereotypical. Yea, a few nurses plug doctors. Yeah, a few like the job security. But I’ll tell you from my career and working with hundreds of nurses at many different hospitals over the years… if it’s “just a job” for you, you don’t last long.
I’m a guy in this profession and I’ve been punched, kicked, bitten, poked with dirty needles, spit on my face; had my face sprayed with blood, puked on, tackled violent patients; Covid patients coughing in my face for a year; contracted COVID twice and Hep C once (thankfully my body spontaneously beat it and I don’t have it); and yelled at the ones grabbing the women and using racial slurs. I’ve had to comfort my coworkers who were shaking, crying, and afraid because of the situations I mentioned. This isn’t a job for people who want to fuck doctors or have job security.
Personally I know two nurses out of hundreds since Covid started who did not want the vaccine. 100% of the nurses on a Covid unit I worked on contracted Covid. Two never came back to work. One died.
So while I won’t deny that most of the nurses I’ve worked with described do exist, it’s a small minority. The vast majority of us continue to come to work day after day, exhausted, missing our families on holidays and weekends, and dealing with the things I mentioned because deep down we do the best we can in a lousy work environment.
Thanks, mate, it's people like you that prevents the world from falling into some barbaric obscurantist state. And, damn, haven't the troglodytes been pushing hard lately :(
Stay safe. All the best!
Almost every COVID patient on our unit did not get the vaccine, and almost every single one of them voluntarily refused it. I also see more COVID patients watching Fox News than before. It is what it is.
I never understood why some people had such a hard time accepting masks. We wear pants out of fucking courtesy. Thats it. Everyone is sold on pants and doesn't even question it. But oh no wear a mask for a pandemic caused by a respitory disease and people lose their mind.
Pants are hot (which contributes to sweating, bacteria growth, and chafing), they’re often not comfortable to wear, they’re inconvenient, and if they’re too tight, they can cause infertility issues in men. But as you said, not one of those jackholes thinks pants are infringing on their rights.
Look I get it. I have to wear a mask at work even though I’m 100% vaccinated, I work with little kids. I’m overweight, my work is hot, the mask makes me hot, claustrophobic, and if I’m exerting myself it can make it a little harder to breathe.
I still wear a damn mask. My littles can’t be vaccinated and people are stupid. I deal with the discomfort and do it for them.
I definitely tip my hats off to you for doing for your kids’ sake. I’m sure folks like in the r/Coronavirus would mock you for still having a mask despite being fully vaccinated in light of the recent CDC guidelines. I recall a few of them mock anyone who has children and disregard their need to mask up due to their children not being jabbed and always bring up that stat about kids not getting COVID.
I’m absolutely terrified of my daughter getting sick. My whole family is fully vaccinated aside from my husband who is waiting on his second dose (his age group only opened up recently here, I got it early because I’m at risk), and my greatest fear is some anti-vaxx no masker giving my 7 month old Covid with dire consequences
You haven’t been to Walmart lately, have you?
Pants are impeding my ability to shit on the floor
Take off your pants and your panties, shit on the floor.
This requirement for pants is infringing my right to get shwifty!
Cheque day, pajama pants as far as the eye can see
Say it brother! Time to get rid of these things that we're brainwashed to wear by the pants industrial complex!
Le tits wing?
Thats why I like shorts. Theyre easy and comfortable to wear
[Don't you hate pants?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14QaBE8N7c)
Pants can do what now
Think about this angle. Eastern cultures that have masking as a practice that a sick person does to protect the community have much less spread than the so called 'free' Western countries. Had people worn masks even when they thought they were sick we would have had fewer cases and fewer deaths. To spread droplets need to get from A to B and anything that makes it hard on droplets slows the spread.
In those cultures if they do something, they care about what happens to other people as a result of that thing. Americans seem not to, and in the broader context of human sociocultural behaviour, that’s weird.
It was turned political. If right wingers were told to wear masks they would have fallen in line. But, instead a culture war was started by the right and here we go. Hence why it doesn't need to make sense.
If Trump had told everyone at the beginning that ‘the virus was released to make me look bad so it’s important to wear masks or I won’t be re-elected’ we would have seen near 100% compliance.
He likely would've been reelected too, his approach to covid-19 was idiotic and the reason he lost.
He lost because he woke a sleeping giant on the left that mostly didn't even have time in our busy days to care much about politics but since he spent 4 years shitting all over us, he practically forced us into the voting booth.
-Signed a 30 year old "Democrat" who didn't even know I was a Democrat and voted for the first time in my life.
And this was before COVID.
> I never understood why some people had such a hard time accepting masks.
They don't like being told what to do like children with opposition defiance disorder. That's it. They only wear pants because they grew up wearing pants. If they grew up in nudist colonies they'd refuse to wear pants and fight with the cop who came to cite them for indecent exposure.
They wear pants because they’ve always had to wear pants. In a time before being asked to do something was political.
What will always get me is that masks are…inconvenient. That’s it. Inconvenient.
And they are a time-honored defense against spreading respiratory illnesses.
This was the first time they’d been used at such a large scale against a respiratory virus (I think Republicans are now raking Fauci over the coals for being skeptical of them back in the beginning?), and it turns out they do a good job of keeping a droplet/aerosol virus from spreading in general, and a very good job of stopping super-spreader events of this particular dangerous respiratory virus from happening.
I’m glad I don’t have to wear one anymore except when I choose to go to work in person. I like seeing people’s smiles, and every chin I see is a reminder that going into molecular biology was a meaningful thing to do.
I’ll keep my collection on hand for when I’m sick and I’ll mostly try not to dwell on the difficult year they were neccessary…but they just were not a big ask for something that was so effective, and I will never understand how they became controversial.
Not to mention seatbelts which are uncomfortable and can wrinkle clothes, but government mandated to save our lives.
Because they belong to the Trump cult, despite him getting vaccinated. This pandemic should have never been politicized.
The only thing that would have made this better would have been for the department head to grill her on the science of it and let her demonstrate her abject failure to reason it out.
I remember asking one on my wife’s Facebook friends to give me an actual scientific citation for not wearing masks. She attached something that looked like an actual paper so I sat down and started reading it.
Turns out the scope was a declaration backing their claim….but once you got into the data, it was literally making the case study *for masking*. Either this idiot never actually read it or someone played an epic prank on her and several others apparently.
Whatever the case, she quickly deleted it after I told her she needs to read things before trying to use them as proof.
You see this so often, "Read this paper, it proves my point!!".
Then you read the paper and it turns out that they've either not read it (they presume people will see a paper and assume it justifies the argument) or never got past the title\\abstract, then they get huffy when you point it out.
I'm not a scientist, and the stats get me tangled up, but the conclusion is where the meat is, the title & abstract are the the sexed up 'clickbait' to get you to read it
Had a conversation with someone on here whose evidence on "the planet being greener than ever" was using a study as proof of their claims. A quick read showed gems like this
"...82% of the greening seen in India – comes from intensive cultivation of food crops."
The rest of the paper was equally as stupid. It was only a couple of pages.
It's a classic rhetoric shared by a huge % of deniers. Say something that might be \*technically\* correct in some way, but isn't remotely relevant to the question at hand. "CO2 is plant food" is a classic, but also see "the climate has always changed" and "in the past CO2 followed temperature". Always gives away that they don't know what they're talking about, but have done some bare minimum of reading so that they can list off their little catchphrases.
Oh for sure. I would have to read it again but I remember thinking the next day that I could spraypaint a parking lot green and it would still count under this "study"
I had one I think it was an anti vaxxer who swore she had a degree in "science" post something to prove her point... I can't remember what it was .. I went to the conclusion, absolutely disproved what she was saying.. I laughed and I said did you even read this.. she said well I read the first few sentences ... WHAT!
I once encountered a dude who insisted that people can survive on a completely carnivorous diet. I asked him to cite his sources. He linked an article that was biased because it came from a blog in support of a carnivorous diet. The "article" itself linked another page.
The other page stated that Eskimos can survive on a NEARLY meat only diet because they eat raw seal meat and blubber, which contains Vitamin C. If it's cooked, the vitamin is destroyed. Most other meats don't even contain Vitamin C to begin with. And Eskimos supplement thier diet with berries and other plant material whenever it's availabke.
In short, because he didn't actually read what he posted, he debunked his own claim. So I pointed out the facts, but I never got a response.
I generally know when someone is arguing in bad faith. When they do post sources I know they haven’t read them. I wait until they Google a large and impressive study that it’s quite clear they haven’t read.
At that point it becomes laughably easy to just say things like “but the whole of pgs 36-39 disproves the point, especially the middle six paragraphs!”
“The paper doesn’t fit your point. Check out pages 9-13 on those stats, are you sure this is the right article?”
It may or may not be. But I made them read it, which is a thing to which they are vehemently opposed in the first place.
I had this dipshit post a journal article with a title that seemed to support his claims. He swore up and down he had read it.
It was behind a $60 paywall.
When I otherwise acquired said paper, it refuted his viewpoint rather harshly.
Then? He threw a tantrum.
I wonder how much money I could make starting a webpage for a fake "journal" that claims to confirm all sorts of conspiracy bullshit and then putting it behind an expensive paywall?
That was the “otherwise” acquisition. 😉
Reminds me of the time when an anti vaxxer told me "do your research" when I was talking about vaccines in a reddit thread. I was like "you know what? Sure. Send me all your research I'll read it" It took me 7 to 8 hours to read all the papers they sent me but at the end I was like "you do realise almost all of them praise vaccines right" turns out they read the abstract and then went poof.
My favorite thing to do is read the thing, find direct quotes that destroy them, and post them back. I usually get blocked.
I once got one from someone whose footnotes and citations read like a goddamn rogues gallery of every fringe right wing source you could imagine as scientific proof.
I was like “yea you are not convincing anyone with this”
I think I have seen that one. it was a paper on a specific kind of mask material to improve n95 masks. The paper states it is ineffective for the expected criteria in the abstract.
the meat of the paper says masks work, this verifies that masks work, and even this material failing its criteria works exceedingly well in non-n95 requirements like presenting spread from an infected carrier.
"This is just says volcano insurance over and over again."
Had someone forward me a similar paper. Lots of sources cited … but when you looked up those sources not a single one said what the anti-masker said they did. At all. Lots of quotes taken entirely out of context and, in some cases, just plain misrepresenting what the study said.
Working in healthcare I’ve watched so many colleagues (and myself at times) choose not to debate a person wants to leave the hospital against medical advice who refuses to learn from a discussion. It’s easier to simply explain their decision to leave can be fatal and have them sign the form. This realization comes from experience; you can argue all day with an idiot and only waste your time.
The department head obviously realized there was no use making any sort of argument as she was only
Interested in arguing and creating a scene for attention. So he booted her out and removed her ability to get the attention.
Why waste more time on that bullshit than entirely necessary? He did what's necessary.
I do like efficient people.
This is really first year biology (in high school) no grilling is required. Prime example of people choosing tribe over data. I have often wondered how scientists can believe in creationism and evolution at the same time. I'm sure that even the brochures show people wearing masks in the lab.
Honestly the real concern for me here is that anyone who is not only willing but *wants* to defy lab safety procedures is a ticking time bomb.
If she can't truly learn from this mistake there's a very real chance she is going to kill people, either directly or indirectly through contaminating test results or a dangerous lab accident.
mmm mmm feels good. Reading this is the equivalent of opening my porch door at 6am with a hot cup of coffee on a brisk summer dawn.
Yes, this is the most satisfying post I've seen today. Delicious
I work in clinical research. A close colleague who I have worked with for more than 5 years flipped her lid with the lockdowns, protests and all the politics going on. I had finally reached my limit with her this past May when she seemed that we were still close friends. But I had to call out all the BS she came to say for instance - calling it the China virus, and despite telling her how offensive it is (both her husband and I are Asian descent) she had the audacity to defend it knowing we had the ‘Spanish flu’. She believes Anthony Fauci should be tried for mass murder and called him ‘flip flop Fauci’… no news media called him so, unless you’re listening to far far right media. She believed HCQ was the cure - again we work in clinical trials at the university level and so we know what it takes done something to get FDA approval. She claims she always believed COVID was serious, despite calling it another flu, thinking the vaccine is not necessary since she believed it has a 1% mortality rate, and thinking the lockdowns where tyrannical against her ‘freedoms’.
She still thinks we’re friends, but I want nothing to do with her as I’m just no longer comfortable with her anymore
I have cut a lot of people out of my life over the past 5 years. Trumpism has shown me sides of people that I can never reconcile or overlook. It's not about politics, it's about basic human decency. I can be friends with someone who thinks that we should tax and spend less and leave things to the public sector -- I typically think they're wrong and dumb, but that's just politics. But if you support Trump after all the actual fascism, if you support kicking my family out of the country for being Muslim, if you support policies that make it impossible for trans people like me to exist as ourselves, if you think a billionaire's money is worth more than his workers' lives, you are either stupid to an alarming degree or evil, and I can't bring myself to associate with you.
I never get the “just 1%” thing. That’s a lot of people!
This isn’t shooting your self in the foot. This is blowing it off with a rocket launcher.
When you try to rocket jump in CoD
Amazing how fast she threw off that "brainwashing " wasn't it?
Faster than a Trumper charged with insurrection.
Theoden over here
I will draw you, Facebook conspiracies, as poison is drawn from a wound.
Very interesting indeed!
I'm sure it snapped right back into place when she wanted to get crazycred posting about how she was discriminated against for exercising her freedumbs
Yeah just digs a deeper hole for herself too.
"So you're easily swayed by obvious falsehoods from laypeople?"
Don't you need to wear a mask in most labs to avoid contaminating the samples you're working with?
So she doesn't want to wear a mask for the like 10 minutes it takes her to get from the front door, through security and to her lab where she had to put on a mask for her job even pre-covid?
And the thinner/less filtering mask she has to wear for that walk somehow inhibit her O2 more than the high grade one she has to wear for possibly hours in the lab?
How did she even get that far into her toxicologist education? How did they not notice the stupid during her interview for the internship? So many questions....
I work in a clinical lab that specializes in virology. Most open specimens are handled in biological safety hoods to prevent contamination. Before covid we didn't wear masks unless we were showing respiratory symptom's. And that's just because we had to remove a pouch from the hood to put in an instrument.
Hoist by her own petard, indeed.
Oh god. I’ve been saying this wrong for years.
Close enough. ❤️
Shouldn't have worn that [petard](https://youtu.be/KuuafUtVte0).
It doesn't matter that she knows where the brainwashing came from; it matters that she let her brain *be* washed. Now she needs to start her career in science all over.
I want to buy that department head a round of beer
🎶 it’s too late to apologize 🎶
“Im sorry i was allowed to believe this stuff” ok kiddo
I was doing some online dating and was having a great conversation on the phone with a dental assistant. I threw in a joke about how I had gotten the vaccine early and she replied that only 1 person in her clinic had gotten the vaccine. And this was after she mentioned that she’s around people with open mouths. I was like “I’m pretty sure you’re eligible to get it”. And she was like “it’s basically a flu”. So,I,go silent for about 10 seconds and said “I have a relative who died from Covid because their kid went to a gathering where there were no masks...I don’t think we’re compatible “. Whatever your choices are for not getting the vaccine, you absolutely shouldn’t be doing a job in medical around other people if you don’t.
Had a guy at my work refuse to wear a mask. He was in his 50s-60s, heavy smoker, and had chronic health issues (you know, they type most at risk of dying from COVID). We are on government property (gov-owned, contractor operated) and the gov customer mandated all personnel and visitors wear a mask. He refused at every step of the way; told off his management, HR, everyone.
At one point my team was told by sr management we could face disciplinary action if we did not wear masks when we were supposed to. I pulled the guy aside one day and tried to tell him they’re starting to get serious about it, but he wouldn’t have it.
It took them a couple months, but they fired him. I suspect it took that long so he could accumulate enough writeups to justify a termination for cause. The day he was walked out, I finally saw him wearing a mask. He was told to wear it to his final meeting with HR and site management.
I really don’t get why he chose to (metaphorically) die on that hill. He lost his job and there aren’t many more like his around our area without moving. Even if someone bought into the whole “masks don’t work” thing, the bottom line is it’s an employer mandated dress code. No different than if they issued a uniform and required we wear it (all our masks were company provided). Dude lost his job and probably good chance he could have been denied unemployment too.
He died on the hill because otherwise the liberals would win! /s
I work in biochemistry and the owners son has a PHD in biochemistry and the entire family doesn’t believe in masks or covid
Unlucky they’re the owners.
Masks are not religion. They work independent of whether you believe in them or not.
a lot of schools have a system where you can pass exams by remembering things. you never have to understand them.
actually, i think that's most schools.
i remember taking a class at uni and the exam was 30 definitions. they would pick 10 of them randomly and you had to know the definition word for word--very scientific words in a long paragraph.
if you spent time actually learning what the definition meant, you would fail because that wasn't the exam and it could make it harder to learn the definition verbatim.
i asked what that showed exactly since i didn't know that i was studying to be a dictaphone, and they said that the class had always been taught like that and they weren't going to change it now.
That may be true for undergrad, but to get a Ph.D. in science you have to do years of research in a lab (anywhere from 2-8 years), full time, write a dissertation, and defend it in front of the entire department who will often question the candidate extensively (though in some schools the defense is more of a formality). There is essentially no way to fake your way through a Ph.D. that I can think of. In science at least. I’m not sure about other fields.
This makes me moist.
Six to midnight.
This pleases me greatly.
If only he reamed her out on the science.
Why people choose to make scientific fact political shows how dumb some people are and how dumb our system is.
All that opportunity thrown away to be a COVID denier.
As a scientist, this made me giddy. Science is a small world. Good luck finding a job in your field now.
If she is a student then getting blacklisted is a real thing. A bunch of kids in my brother’s comp sc class copy-pasted each other’s programming project and promptly got blacklisted by quite a few companies.
People don’t realize how small some industries are. Everyone knows everyone. In molecular biology I’d say there’s pretty much 4 degrees of separation (or less).
This explains Rand Paul to a "T". He's some kinda doctor....I guess.
There was never a doubt that masks work. They’re used in every surgery and every clean room in the world without controversy.
Yeah that’s a lab setting. If they add face coverings for PPE, you’re going to need to wear one. I’m assuming that would be the same in regards to safety glasses/googles or face shields.
I work in a chemical plant and our PPE list can range from Nomex/FRC, hard hat, safety glasses, ear plugs, steel toe boots, chemical resistant rubber boots, Tyvek, Tychem or line break suits that suck in the summer time, half face cartridge respirators, full face cartridge or supplied air respirators, various kinds of gloves, a steam suit and harnesses. Keep in mind, we may have to wear various combinations of this while working outside in the rain, heat or up on a scaffold. Let me tell you how much fun wrestling a 20” expansion joint into place while wearing a line break suit and under fresh air in the middle of Louisiana August weather is.
Our firm is back to normal, not mandating masks or social distancing. But we had a vaccination drive on-site so over 85% of the employees are vaccinated except for people with actual medical exception by their doctors. New employees are mandated to get vaccinated 14 days before start date. If they don't want to, the job offer would be rescinded. If they can't, they have to give a medical exception from their doctor and keep wearing a mask.
It's not that hard folks.
Here's the thing, please understand what I'm saying before replying...
The more i dive into American culture, the more i find that *MOST* Americans are self-entitled, and this is due to your laws that ensure freedom.
Don't get me wrong, i would kill for the kind of freedom you guys have, but sadly, people misuse this freedom and confuse it with "I am the center of the whole universe" and "my opinions are facts" that everyone should follow. And i think that your education system is partly to blame for that.
Hope you're all being safe!
Stupidity and gullibility have consequences.
Ah I love it when people suffer consequences and are held accountable for their actions. I’m a manager at a hot springs pool and we had someone who was trying to get in without paying for a membership. We used to be open to the public but have since become a private resort. To get in one of 3 things need to be true.
- you are a hotel guest
- you’re vacationing at the RV park next to us
- you have bought or are on someone’s membership.
This person tried arguing and saying that the actual card holder said she could be a guest and when the card holder came to the window she said “nobody’s ever enforced that rule before, this is bullshit I want to see the GM.” She then tried to walk into the pool area and I locked the door on her and said she had to leave her membership card with me and until my GM approves of her staying. her membership will be destroyed because she broke contractual rules that she signed up for. Now she’s called my office twice trying to apologize saying she’s had a bad day and has a headache. My response was “I’m sorry to hear you’re having a bad day, but I as well am having a bad day because I have a tear along my hip that’s causing some fat to “fall” out and it’s getting caught when I walk causing me a lot of pain to stand and walk around. Yet I don’t take my frustrations out on anyone even when they are screaming in my face like you did. I said you’re more than welcome to talk to the GM tomorrow when he comes to work.” Then I hung up.
I believe nurses that are antivaxer or won't get the Covid-19 vaccine (and they don't have a valid medical exception) should lose their job. I would even propose that antivaxer nurses be reported to their state nursing board.
These nurses give the rest of us a bad name.
Ms. Snickerdoodle Intern would be better served with a Creative Writing degree than a degree in science would seem. Perhaps she can get an internship with Sean Hannity or Alex Jones, no?
I love when right wingers lose their jobs because of their own hateful beliefs
too many people act like this. we keep having to let *nurses* go because they are ignoring their training in light of anti-mask propaganda.
you're a godamn nurse, you've worn that mask to work every fucking day for over two decades and now it's a problem? i hate to see a senior staff member go, but gtfo. you'll never work in this industry again. hope it was worth it
i've even caught one spouting the O2 nonsense. girl, you take an O2 measure on every fucking patient. like a a few dozen a day! you *know* that's bullshit.
*: applies to two nurses specifically. OR nurses too. you always wear a fucking mask! wtf!?
I have a nurse friend that is religiously right-wing. In person he would say that COVID-19 was extremely overblown and negative press is politically motivated and that as soon as the elections were over it'll all disappear. He was wrong about everything, he got covid and almost hospitalized for it.
He had a long time friend of his that died from it. He's still posting crap about how awesome it is that places are going maskless. He knows how much to post on social media so that he doesn't bring so much attention from his employer.
What Im trying to say is that some of these brain washed morons are a little more savvy when it comes to being defiant. They are everywhere.
She goes off, then when called out on it, she goes on and claims she was brainwashed? Well, she is brainwashed, but she tried a power play, and failed horribly, and deservingly.
It’s not just medical professions that require masks. A lot of manufacturing jobs require clean room environments which entails over pressurized rooms, hairnets, gloves, gowns, booties, and of course masks. It is what is required for you to work there. Any moron who comes in to a job and says they’re rights are more important than the actual requirements of said job deserve whatever they get. This is the same nonsense as when they started legalizing marijuana and workers thought that meant businesses couldn’t drug test or fire them any more. Mob mentality. Enough people start yelling about something and idiots start listening.