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ASexualSloth

If the Canadian government can't even regulate things a little bit more important like, say, housing prices, what in the flying beaver makes them think they can regulate Canadian content on the internet??


CampusBoulderer

My guess is that it would be enforced extremely selectively, which is a problem in itself.


ASexualSloth

Bingo. And when it's enforced extremely selectively, that's code for 'enforced on dissenters'. If this passes, pretty sure news outlets like rebel media would just be erased outright.


thingpaint

I'm sure if Bell and Rogers were paying them to fix housing prices it would be done tomorrow.


ASexualSloth

It's just abundantly clear which interest groups the government works for. It's certainly not the average citizen.


Born_Ruff

>If the Canadian government can't even regulate things a little bit more important like, say, housing prices, I mean, there are some fundamental practical issues there, such as the fact that housing is primarily a provincial responsibility, so the feds don't have the legal authority to go in and tell someone in Toronto how much they are allowed to sell their house for. There is also the practical issue of a government trying to set prices for 10's of millions of individual housing units across different areas and all with different attributes. That's all a lot harder to do than telling Netflix to include more Canadian shows.


ASexualSloth

Oh, it's absolutely different. Unfortunately, if all you think this will be used for is to force providers to just 'inside more Canadian shows', you haven't been paying attention.


Born_Ruff

That is the aspect being discussed in this article.


ASexualSloth

Sure. It's also not the entirety of what this bill is attempting to accomplish.


Mister_Kurtz

The legislation includes the power to regulate user content, but the CRTC 'assures' us they wouldn't do that even if they have that legislative power. So then how about just removing that part of the legislation?


radio705

This Bill needs to die in the Senate.


Timbit42

I don't care where it dies as long as it dies. There are tons of Canadian content online but it's not limited to TV and radio anymore. Now it's on YouTube and social media and it's not always tagged as being Canadian, but I'd like to see Canadians tag their stuff. There is no risk Canadian content will not get seen by Canadians and the entire world. Unknown Canadian media producers don't have the barriers to becoming known that existed before the internet.


aardwell

>Bill C-11 is the government’s second attempt to interupdate the Broadcasting Act and set up the CRTC to regulate streaming platforms. The previous version, Bill C-10, died on the order paper last year due to concerns that it would put user-generated content under the CRTC’s authority. > >When Heritage Minister Pablo Rodriguez introduced C-11, he said the government “fixed” those concerns, but critics have since said the way the bill is worded means user-generated content is indeed included. He straight-up lied. C-11 brings all user-generated content that generates revenue under the CRTC's jurisdiction, as well as any content that has a "unique identifier". If C-11 passes, the CRTC can make all sorts of rules, like requiring Youtube to demonetize entire genres of content (inconvenient "misinformation" content, political content, etc), or requiring Youtube to monetize a certain proportion of French or Indigenous content. It can also force Youtube to prioritize certain channels over others. Finally, it can make streaming companies to make projects in Canada, and force them to hire and train Canadian staff. The penalty system they set out allows for fines in the millions. It would be catastrophic if C-11 passed. I honestly think they'll just pull out of Canada if it passes because it's such a mess.


FightMongooseFight

With Guilbeault, you could never quite tell where the dishonesty ended and the raw ignorance began. He's so stupid that sometimes it seemed like he actually believed the nonsense he was spewing. With Rodriguez, you know he's lying. He knows UGC is covered. He just sees no consequences for brazenly claiming it isn't.


aardwell

That's painfully accurate. Rodriguez's whole strat here is repeating the same three lines and expecting the media to repeat it with no analysis. I think C-11 is so convoluted that they're hesitant to explain the consequences of this bill, because that's better left to experts. So we're left with Geist's blog. He has no regard for how disillusioning this is to watch. A whipped parliament waving it through, no regard for feedback, little scrutiny in media, repeated lies. Incredibly poor governance.


MumLikesTrains

new to Canada? Havent had good governance in 40+ years. We cant have nice things because we're too busy putting out one dumpster fire after another.


Chuck006

This bill seems like it was written by out of touch old people that don't understand how the internet works.


ItsJustAn0pinion

That’s mostly who runs the country.


SoloPogo

Pretty much this. They're treating it like a tv from the 80s with only 12 channels. Last thing I want is canadian crap forced down my throat.


FourFurryCats

There have been so few exceptions to CanCon actually creating entertaining content. Instead, it just just used to promote cultural garbage that no-one watches or consumes.


rathgrith

Sums up the federal government perfectly


ItsJustAn0pinion

The only people who support this stupid shit are people with a large financial stake to gain from it or the politicians influenced by those same forces. There’s a zero percent chance this benefits the average Canadian in any way, and is purely to satisfy the media conglomerates we have here.


oryes

Yup, insane to me how the government, whose entire purpose is to serve the public, can do something like this. It really makes you lose trust in the whole thing (as if I had much already).


ItsJustAn0pinion

They serve the interests of the people who help them stay in office and give them cushy jobs post “public service”.


FightMongooseFight

I watched the hearing. The dinosaurs from the media industry wandered all over the place calling for all kinds of subsidies that aren't even in C-11. The digital people crushed it. But the Liberals don't care. The most amazing part is the woman pictured (Morghan Fortier) told the committee exactly what they need to understand: Netflix, Apple TV, Disney+...they're basically modern broadcasters. The CRTC can go ahead and regulate those and while it'll make life more expensive, it won't break the entire digital content ecosystem. But treating those streaming services like User-Generated Content (UGC) platforms like YouTube and TikTok is the sort of stupidity that only Pablo Rodriguez is defending. Well actually he's not...he's lying about it every chance he gets, claiming that it's excluded by Section 4.1 of C-11. Which it is, except that exclusion is then completely invalidated by section 4.2. No one with a functioning brain could watch that hearing and think C-11, as written, is good for anyone but the dinosaur broadcast industry. But of course, that's the whole point. EDIT: 4.1 and 4.2, not 2.1 and 2.2.


aardwell

>Well actually he's not...he's lying about it every chance he gets, claiming that it's excluded by Section 2.1 of C-11. Which it is, except that exclusion is then completely invalidated by section 2.2. It's really disheartening to see him get away with it when the text of the bill is clear. It's his own bill, he knows he's lying.


imfar2oldforthis

>It's really disheartening to see him get away with it when the text of the bill is clear. It's his own bill, he knows he's lying. In his defence, Bell and Rogers likely wrote the bill...


FightMongooseFight

I just said the same in another thread. With Guilbeault, his stupidity made it hard to tell what was a lie, and what was just pure ignorance. Rodriguez is more dangerous because he's so, so comfortable with saying things that can be proven false in seconds. He knows his base will back him up no matter what. He's a very polished liar.


Revolutionary-Row784

This bill is going to ruin streaming services like Crunchyroll in Canada. I don’t want shitty local anime or hallmark movies on Crunchyroll


FightMongooseFight

Crunchyroll and all other foreign-language or international cultural streamers will either defy the CRTC or leave the market. No chance they'll submit to CanCon rules.


Revolutionary-Row784

They already have Canadian content some of the dubbed anime was dubbed in Canada there is a company called ocean productions that is sometimes used to dub anime. https://dubbing.fandom.com/wiki/Ocean_Productions


FightMongooseFight

That doesn't even come close to qualifying as CanCon under the CRTC's byzantine rules, unfortunately.


Revolutionary-Row784

Yes it does I found this on the crtc’s website Dubbed Productions Dubbed productions include certified Canadian productions and foreign productions whose audio is converted in Canada, using Canadian resources, into either official language of Canada or an Indigenous Canadian language by lip synchronization or voice-over. The dubbing time credit is valid for a period of two years from the date of first broadcast of the dubbed version. After this period, the dubbed version receives the same time credit as the original version. Productions that use subtitles are not eligible for the dubbing credit. Canadian productions dubbed in Canada: Receive a “C” number for a certified Canadian production dubbed in Canada, along with a supplementary time credit of 33% of that for the original production. Example: a certified Canadian production dubbed from English to French. To be considered a Canadian production, the original production must be certified by the CRTC or CAVCO (with a Part A or B certificate). Foreign productions dubbed in Canada: Receive a “D” number for the dubbing in Canada of a foreign program along with a time credit based on the duration of the original program. Two possible time credits are available for this type of production: Foreign production dubbed from an official language of Canada or an Indigenous Canadian language into the other official language of Canada or an Indigenous Canadian language: broadcaster may claim a 33% Canadian time credit. Example: a foreign production dubbed from English to French or Cree. Foreign production dubbed from a language other than an official language of Canada or an Indigenous Canadian language into an official language of Canada or an Indigenous Canadian language: broadcaster may claim a 50% Canadian time credit. Example: a production dubbed from Japanese to English, French or Cree. https://crtc.gc.ca/canrec/eng/guide1.htm


Dlorbox

Anime of green gables, streaming exclusively on crunchyroll.


banderwocky

This bill is so stupid. What a massive waste of time and resources.


Appropriate_Lock_260

It's evil. Not just stupid


banderwocky

No. Raping and torturing children for fun is evil. This is stupid.


defishit

Censoring political discourse on the internet to prop up a neoliberal corporate government at the expense of the people is pretty evil, too.


youregrammarsucks7

Lawyer here. My understanding was this was redrafted so it does not apply to user content. I just pulled up the bill and literally on the very first provision, and second subclause: ​ (b) specify that the Act does not apply in respect of programs uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service, *unless the programs are prescribed by regulation;* ​ So the minister will draft the regulations, and they can change them at will, without a vote. I didn't even read any further, it's enough to show this is all nonsense.


Canadianman22

Over half of Canadians can no longer afford to buy food and put a roof over their heads and this is where the government is putting its time and energy? You want to help? Go the other way. Get rid of all cancon rules completely defund the cbc. There is $1 billion we can use to start helping people.


BartVanHouten

Forced Canadian content is bullshit. I hate the forced Canadian content, I know radio volunteers and they have to take a break from playing legit good music to play Canadian songs


AlternativeTension7

Literally this morning the radio station were playing all the newer song but to fulfill their Canadian quotas obligation they played that one Canadian songs made 10 years ago. Like I heard that song already like a couple of times now this year.


ManufacturerRoyal204

It's not just risky, it's down right dangerous. This country's been in a tailspin since electing this buffoon.


politskovskaya

This bill is about thought control. Streaming platforms have their own biased algorithms. The government wants in on it.


Majestic_Ferrett

If Canada could make decent stuff, this wouldn't even be an issue.


FightMongooseFight

We do...on digital platforms. The broadcasters continue to churn out government-subsidized garbage, while Canadian YouTubers are killing it on the global stage. C-11 is designed to prop up the broadcasters at the expense of the digital creators, because the former have hundreds of lobbyists and the latter have Michael Geist.


varsil

I'm Canadian, I'm on YouTube. Just ticked over 150k subscribers. This bill threatens that.


FightMongooseFight

Yes, it does. Amazing work building out such a successful channel, though!


TheGreatPiata

This right here. I watch a bunch of Canadian Youtube creators almost daily. I watch zero broadcaster cancon media.


Aaron1187

That's why the government wants to put controls on the internet, because people aren't getting their news from traditional sources. They can pay off Canadian news outlets but you can't do that with the internet so you have to legislate ways to sensor content that is unfavorable by claiming that it's for the good of the people by labeling it misinformation.


imfar2oldforthis

I wish this was about news but it isn't. This is about all media that you consume. A very powerful group in Canada want to make sure it goes through them so that they profit. There is no great conspiracy here, just greed.


Aaron1187

We are saying the same thing. Money and power go hand in hand like thunder and lightning. So when I said a group of people want more power it was implied that they wanted more money because money is power and vice versa. Just like I interpreted your words to mean a very rich and powerful group in Canada want to see it goes through so they can gain more power and wealth.


1vaudevillian1

I have been trying to tell people here it's not about free speech. This is about bell and rogers (scum bags). They are loosing big time on traditional media. They want to kill the internet in Canada. Youtube, Netflix, Prime, and Disney plus will all pull out. Hell everything will pull out. If creator content falls under cancon most things will pull out. I almost bet there is a rule in there this post will fall under cancon because someone is profiting from it somewhere. But the free dumbs stole the narrative a made the issue convoluted. instead of what it is, bell and rogers killing the internet.


FightMongooseFight

Yes. A lot of people have tried to make all of the anti-tech bills about free speech. But the only one that is truly a free speech issue is the online harms bill, which the Liberals had to withdraw after every single group they were counting on to support it came out in opposition to it. It will be back. They should save their fire for that and let everyone else oppose C11 and C18 on their merits. Both are horrifically bad bills that will wreak havoc on the internet in Canada. Let's say that instead of making everything about one issue.


imfar2oldforthis

Yup, it'll be "The Internet brought to you by Rogers/Bell". They want Netflix, Prime, Disney, etc to all be delivered to you the way they deliver HBO or Starz through Crave... I think the Liberals actually want the narrative to be about controlling the "news" because they can dismiss that as hysterics.


jaywinner

Sometimes it happens. But I never find it looking for Canadian content. I'm looking for content, judge it to be good then learn it's Canadian.


LookOutForThatMoose

Same. I don't watch David Cronenberg movies because he's Canadian. I couldn't care less where he fell out of his mother. I watch David Cronenberg movies because they're fucking awesome. Full stop.


MumLikesTrains

As a free market should be. The best products selling themselves.


icebalm

> If Canada could make decent stuff, this wouldn't even be an issue. Canadians are killing it on youtube. They don't need this at all. This is protection for old broadcast media to legislate them online revenue streams as TV gasps it's long and slow death rattle.


MumLikesTrains

Trailer Park Boys did a good job capturing Maritime culture, in those first few seasons. Letterkenny did a bang up job representing the west.


aardwell

It's an even worse issue because the decent stuff we do make can get absolutely obliterated! xQc is one of the biggest Twitch streamers out there and he's Canadian. Located in Canada, afiak. C-11 could destroy his business (estimated $8M) if the CRTC directed all platforms to demonetize gun content (video games). He and Twitch (Amazon) could get multi-million dollar fines for noncompliance. It's pretty whack.


adaminc

He moved back to Canada recently because he kept getting doxxed and swatted.


wyn10

And to get back into gambling I think


FightMongooseFight

Even when they try to help, they'll hurt. The CRTC is almost certain to order YouTube and others to make Canadian content "more discoverable". YouTube will play ball because they have a huge presence here, but the result will be less engagement since they'll be pushing content to people who don't want it. This will hurt the creators' engagement scores, and push them down in the rankings elsewhere in the world. TikTok and others will probably just tell the CRTC to shove it. Good luck fining a Chinese company.


icebalm

> The CRTC is almost certain to order YouTube and others to make Canadian content "more discoverable". YouTube will play ball because they have a huge presence here, but the result will be less engagement since they'll be pushing content to people who don't want it. Especially since "Canadian content" as defined by the CRTC means a Certified Canadian Program. To get this status requires ridiculous amounts of bureaucracy that nobody except large productions can attain and really only works for "traditional" media formats. Canadian youtubers and streamers won't qualify and will be treated like foreigners being pushed down in the rankings.


youregrammarsucks7

>Good luck fining a Chinese company. Lawyer here, I've seen this happen personally to my clients on more than one occasion, except replace fine with collect on judgment. They notoriously abuse the shell game, and there's no way to enforce in China.


justanotherreddituse

The baffling thing to me is what happens when a company like Twitch just decides to tell the government they won't comply and they don't have assets in Canada. It's insane to require all companies across the world to comply with Canadian regulations just because Canada said so. I see it progressing into a system where the government orders ISP's to block many popular sites. We see this with authoritarian nations like Russia that blocked meta / Facebook. Or China that blocks most big sites and created their own alternatives.


Revolutionary-Row784

That’s why you set up a Swiss bank account don’t let the government touch your money


Lastofthemonth

The CRTC isn’t going to demonetize “gun content”.


aardwell

They certainly can. The bill is poorly drafted and allows the CRTC to regulate pretty much everything. >9.‍1 (1) **The Commission may**, in furtherance of its objects, **make orders imposing conditions on the carrying on of broadcasting undertakings that the Commission considers appropriate for the implementation of the broadcasting policy set out in subsection 3(1)**, including conditions respecting > >(d) the **proportion of programs to be broadcast that shall be devoted to specific genres**, in order to ensure the diversity of programming; > >(e) the **presentation of programs and programming services for selection by the public,** including the showcasing and the discoverability of Canadian programs and programming services, such as French language original programs; They can make any order on streamers and their monetized content creators to carry out the CRTC's updated broadcasting policy in s 3. This includes ordering the proportion of monetized content of a certain genre (the proportion can be 0), as well as discoverability (can order it to be buried). To demonetize xQc, all they have to do is: 1. Make an order under s 9 (I quoted above) that there must be 0 monetized gun content 2. Explain how it meets any Broadcasting Act's policy objectives in s 3 (quoted below). It would be easy for them to argue that gun content runs counter to the interests of all the protected groups listed in their proposed amendments to 3(1)(d): >(iii) through its programming and the employment opportunities arising out of its operations, serve the needs and interests of all Canadians — including Canadians from racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, abilities and disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities and expressions, and ages— and reflect their circumstances and aspirations, including equal rights, the linguistic duality and multicultural and multiracial nature of Canadian society and the special place of Indigenous peoples within that society, "Guns hurt \_\_\_\_ people (poor, marginalized, women, etc etc) and exposing young men to this content on the internet to it makes it worse! CRTC must therefore demonetize xQc." Yes, it's stupid. But it will be legal. That's why this bill is terrible.


Lastofthemonth

If CRTC wanted to ban guns the could have already done that on television. They haven’t, they won’t.


icebalm

> The CRTC isn’t going to demonetize “gun content”. Right, just like the Liberal government wouldn't confiscate guns or bring back a long gun registry...


Lastofthemonth

The liberals literally campaigned about increased gun control. No one said this.


icebalm

> The liberals literally campaigned about increased gun control. No one said this. "I was raised with an appreciation and an understanding of how important in rural areas and right across the country gun ownership is as a part of the culture of Canada. I do not feel that there's any huge contradiction between keeping our cities safe from gun violence and gangs, and allowing this important facet of Canadian identity which is having a gun." -- Trudeau https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-calls-long-gun-registry-a-failure-1.1278739 “We will not be bringing back a long-gun registry – it’s not part of our plan and has never been,” -- Trudeau https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-says-no-plans-to-bring-back-long-gun-registry/


Lastofthemonth

They did not bring back the long gun registry, why are you pretending they did? Also, this has zero to do with the CRTC.


icebalm

> They did not bring back the long gun registry, why are you pretending they did? I'm not pretending anything. They did bring into force a defacto long gun registry as of May 18th, although I'm sure they hate the comparison and wish people wouldn't call it that. > Also, this has zero to do with the CRTC. It goes to show that over time motives change. The Liberals want to grant the government the power to control online content creators as if they were traditional broadcast undertakings. Just with their stance on private firearms ownership, the Liberals could decide in the future that certain kinds of content "has no place in Canada". Saying the CRTC isn't going to do something is naive and wishful thinking. Governments don't pass laws not to use them.


Lastofthemonth

The government wants to enforce can con rules on the internet which is the same thing they done on radio and television for many years. This has nothing to do with gun control, the CRTC has nothing to do with gun control. Your just making up conspiracy theories.


icebalm

> The government wants to enforce can con rules on the internet which is the same thing they done on radio and television for many years. Partly, yes, and it's a ridiculous idea. > This has nothing to do with gun control, the CRTC has nothing to do with gun control. You're thick. > Your just making up conspiracy theories. I wish. They stop being theories after they're shown to be correct.


SoloPogo

If it's good it rises to the top and beyond Canada. LetterKenny, Trailer Park Boys. This how I want it to work, don't care where it's from it being good is all I care about.


notbossyboss

O-o-o Canada Oh you?re no fan of us? 'Cause our movie and TV shows are so amateur?


Timbit42

There is a ton of Canadian content online but it's often not tagged as such. I'd like to see more of it tagged #Canadian.


AlternativeTension7

The only people who are pushing this bill are the cultural industries & traditional broadcasters who are definitely seeing a lot of cord cutting from many Canadians who are tired of paying high monthly fee.


JameTrain

Forget CanCon. If it can't stand up to regular content by itself it deserves to die.


downwiththemike

Here we are again an empty head trust fund kid who’s best skill is gorfing his favourite uncle Ji Ji, ignoring what’s best for his people whilst also careening right by any sort of competence. I say let’s get him in for another term.


KD__91

I've made many international friends online that have become IRL friends. But the Heritage Ministry hates that and wants to make that harder in the future since cross-border friendships, business relationships, etc. threaten state power. Disgusting.


Nazoragoth

Im not going to pretend there arent issues with this bill. But the forced promotion of content works fine for Britain, France, Japan, Brazil, Spain and Korea, just to list a few. It lets creators like me use streamers far more effectively and prevents the crazy brain drain where all our best creatives have to leave for the states when they find success. This bill should literally only affect profit driven media production rather than all content. Random people online shouldn't be dealing with the CRTC.


Revolutionary-Row784

The only difference is those countries have the population to produce quality content


Internal-Lifeguard51

It’s all sort of pointless… all instant gratification social media is gonna lead to something like that “idiocracy” movie anyways. Even me doing this right now… 🤦🏼‍♂️


Internal-Lifeguard51

Interesting.


justfollowingorders1

I didn't know Catherine O'Hara was in Canadian politics lol.