Are modern Crossovers the new Hatchback? Did hatchbacks start out in history as seriously "uncool" cars that eventually gained admiration from younger generations because of how sporty some of them became?
By - ar243
I think comparisons to minivans or wagons are more apt. Hatches were popular pretty much when they became common. They were real useful in Europe.
Idk, I went from a GTI to a Stelvio and besides missing out on the Manual, the similarities in dynamics are much closer than to a Mini-Van.
How do you like your 350Z?
I just watched the 2004ish Top Gear episode where they compared it to the Crossfire and the TT. That 350Z still looks modern and holds up today in terms of looks IMO.
My Z was my Uncles that he bought new in 2003, I was 11 or 12 when he bought it. We test drove the Crossfire, the TT and the S2000. The crossfire was the worst out of all of them. And to be honest, that entire segment aged extremely well in terms of looks and styling.
I love my Z, it isn’t a Porsche, but has it’s own uniqueness that lends to a very pleasurable experience. The motors are extremely solid and if you can get a clean un modified one, you’ll be very pleased!
I posted some shots of it last week, it’s in my history if you want to take a look!
That's awesome, definitely a cool car. Love the red.
350z still looks modern because Nissan dragged the design language out for so long.
People need family cars. We had our big, body on frame sedans and station wagons. They were slowly replaced by unit body sedans and minivans. We also had the big body on frame SUVs. Trucks got 4 doors and a big back seat. Then the unit body SUVs took off. And now here we are. Coupes are dead as family cars. Sedans are dying a slow death. Until the electric cars take over, families will be in 2 box SUVs of every size, and 4door, short box pickup trucks Edit: In Europe hatchbacks were also family cars. Sporty cars had fast backs, not hatches.
Wagons are still popular in Europe as well.
And in the hearts of /r/cars Redditors of course.
How does the stelvio compare in fun factor to the GTI?
I mean are they even slightly in the same bracket price wise? Surely you’re looking more like comparing a GTI to a Tiguan?
I have a gti right now lol so curious for my next car. Wouldnt normally consider a crossover but interested in hearing the comparison
Even though my current lineup looks a bit… yeah…
I have had a number of vehicles including a Scirocco (MK 5 golf in a nice suit), 2nd gen Tiguan and an RS Megane - so I have a bit of experience here… you will hate the SUV honestly it’s just so shit in terms of dynamic driving, sure you get to be high up and be on the same level as most people (it’s not about being higher than everyone else when everyone else is in an suv) and they are easier to get in and out of but beyond that there’s little going for an suv over a hatch/saloon/estate. Like for like they are heavier, slower, more thirsty, less engaging to drive than an equivalent hatchback
You really can't make sweeping generalisations like that. Modern SUVs can be incredibly dynamic thanks to improvements in materials (more aluminium, stiffer steel) and suspension technology (active dampers & sway bars). I'm willing to bet you'll find a G05 X5 is faster and more engaging than your old Scirocco.
What a dumb take.
I’m comparing an SUV and hatch of similar ages, saying newer cars are better is a pretty obvious statement you can’t compare a car that’s based off a golf mk5 (so about 15 years old now) to a premium suv instead the comparison should be a 5 series to an x5 and i don’t care how good an x5 is it’s still not competing in terms of driving dynamics with a 5 series.
Damn, of course i / everyone here knows hatches generally perform better than CUV’s, thats why i have one haha. I generally hate sitting high up as well, my gti is lowered. But anyways, I was just trying to ask how close the stelvio came in terms of fun haha. Yeah its a cuv but im sure the alfa handling has to carry over at least some from the giulia and other models, even if it does sit higher and is heavier.
I have an Outback and I love it. It never leaves me stranded, never gets stuck, plenty of room for the day to day junk. I think it's super cool. But I like functional over cool so that's just me.
At this current stage in my life, functional *is* cool.
Give me a car that I can put oil in every 8000 km and do basic maintenance on without worry and I'm all about that.
I don't have the absence of responsibility that would allow me to get stranded on a road for hours or without a vehicle for potentially days. Plus, it's good for consumers when we push for high reliability standards.
Same. For me a large part of "fun factor" in a vehicle includes "can I put my hobby stuff in it and go wherever". Currently driving a 5-speed Impreza hatch and an old Ford Ranger. Neither are particularly sporty but damn do I enjoy those vehicles.
I keep my battery charger for my drill plugged into the 100watt inverter in the cargo area, and I almost never have dead batteries when I get to a customer site. Such a simple feature that made my life so much better.
My wife's new job gave her a company car which meant I inherited her Jeep Grand Cherokee since we still need a family car to haul the kids around and my car didn't even fit her new massive stroller. I am forced to drive slower but man do I love the practicality of such a large vehicle. And I found a short cut to my office by popping a curb separating two parking lots that saves me a ton of time since my office is on a one way street!
I'll be honest, I've always liked hatchbacks. I'm 24 and wasn't really a big car guy until I was 19-20 years old, but I've always liked hatchbacks. Idk what it is about them that I like, but I like them. Not necessarily the looks for all of them, but definitely some of them.
I'll definitely get hate for this, but I unironically love the Corvette hatchback kit. It's called the [Callaway AeroWagen™ Package](https://www.callawaycars.com/homepage/cars/callaway-corvette/callaway-aerowagen-package/), and for some reason I genuinely love the look of it. I wish I knew why, but I don't think I'll ever figure out why. If I ever had a Corvette, I would absolutely do this to it as soon as I could afford to.
Oh, and don't even get me started on the Ford Fiesta. Genuinely one of my favorite hatchbacks right now, and it's specifically because of the RS version they use in rally racing. I love the Fiesta and Fiesta RS.
That Callaway thing is actually really sick.
Reminds me more of a fast back than a hatchback tho.
>Callaway AeroWagen™ Package
Big Ferrari FF vibes! Looks great
In fact, I would argue that if you think what someone drives determines if they are interesting, you might be the boring one.
But for the record I’m boring AF and drive a Rav4.
The cool kids these days consider owning a private car a borderline crime against future humanity and would rather bike, take public transportation, use Uber, all the while patiently awaiting Elon’s Robotaxi fleet of shared, non-private cars.
I’m only half joking.
A couple interns I used to work with mentioned they didn't want to own a car. Too expensive.
Until you have hobbies that require getting out of the city into the woods on a weekly basis
Uber and self driving Robotaxis!
You have a Supra too though, so you have to drive the RAV4 or else you’d be entirely too interesting
It depends. You can get a surface level understanding of what a person's viewpoint on cars is based on the cars they own.
Surface level is as far as it goes though. I've met cool people with lame cars
You already see it in young hipsters. They all want minivans now, especially hard to get ones like the old Mitsubishi Delica. It's because CUVs are now the mom-and-dad-mobiles, whereas minivans used to be in that space.
Mark my words, teenagers are going to be gawking online at mint condition Crosstreks in 20 years
Crosstreks are already sick
Crosstrek Wilderness is going to be a nice barn find 100 years from now.
Oh I’m not taking the piss on the crosstrek. it’s definitely not seen as particularly special today, but if any “boring economy crossover” is going to end up being loved, it’s the crosstrek.
I would guess the manual transmission versions will be especially sought after. Imagine the hipster points you'll gain 20 years from now for knowing how to ~shiftyourowngears~
They dont make a manual crosstrek
It was announced fairly recently.
Wait seriously? That’s amazing
Yeah! It's pretty cool. The sad thing is though you can't get it in the new larger engine that they announced at the same time.
Yes they do. Or did until recently
I don't get the love for the Crosstrek. It's literally just an Impreza lifted a few inches.
/yes, I know they upsized the engine for the 2022MY, but previous years had same engine as Impreza
It's so underpowered. ~150HP before they bumped it to the current 192HP is a joke.
Yeah but when your sitting in traffic at 10-30 mph or just in a string of vehicles all going 60 mph on the highway it's totally fine. It's not amazing, or exciting. It's just fine.
It's a car built for the masses, and it works. It's economical enough and made up of enough Subaru parts from already developed cars to sell at a low enough price that a massive portion of the market can get into it. I don't blame Subaru for it.
I still wished they shoved the WRX engine into the Crosstrek instead of trying to make the new CVT WRX work, I feel like they could have gotten way more sales by simply running on manual WRX's with option CVT, and then marketed a powered up crosstrek with the plastic cladding.
If Subaru ever comes to their senses and puts the base WRX powertrain into the Crosstrek I think that will kick off the hot-cross segment. They would sell a ton of them
That's exactly what's good about it. It drives like an Impreza hatch but does off road things. I just wish they made a XT version with a manual
I love the Crosstrek because it isn't overstyled and you can actually see the rear diff poking out from under the bumper.
Got it, so all I have to do is hold out for 20 years and I can retire when I sell my Rav4!
Will the CVTs hold up that long?
Subaru fans think of CVT replacement as a schedule maintenance.
My ideal car would be a Prius V tall wagon/van with the Prius AWD-e drivetrain and sliding doors like the Mazda 5.
It would be one of the most goddamn practical pavement-based vehicle ever created. The Mazda 5 is such a practical vehicle with its shape and sliding doors, except it's fuel economy is closer to that of an F-150 than a Honda Civic.
The minute someone makes a similar vehicle with an AWD Hybrid drivetrain I'm going to be first in line.
The 2021 sienna.
And it's smaller alternative, the Highlander Hybrid.
The new Sienna, Carnival and Pacifica are good cars though. So I don't blame anyone who's tempted to dip their toe into those waters. My buddy has a Sienna and loves his.
I agree. They're really good vehicles. Now they just need a turbo 6.
There are lame sedans and cool ones. There are lame CUVs and cool ones too.
Possible unpopular opinion but I’d say your typical non-performance sedan or hatchback or wagon is pretty lame from an enthusiast’s point of view but serves its purpose as a no fuss point-a-to-b family car. Many of the CUVs from the luxury brands (and a handful of others such as Mazda) are pretty nice drives. I’d pick something like a BMW X3 (the base, not even the M) for a spirited weekend drive over something like a Camry sedan.
A performance CUV probably is ideal for an enthusiast that needs a “do everything” vehicle but can only have just one for whatever reason.
The Macan puts some “real sports cars” to shame.
The base Macan isn’t though at 6 seconds to 60 and CUV handling. The upper trims are in the 4s and are good enough but damn they better be at 65-80 thousand dollars.
Disclaimer: I haven’t driven the base, only the S (which I have) and GTS. That said, I’ve heard people say the base actually handles better than the S thanks to the lighter engine upfront (don’t quote me on that though!) even if it’s down considerably in power. Everything other than the engine is identical between the base and S as far as I’m aware.
Probably depends on if PASM or Air suspension and PTV are optioned.
I guess as with most Porsches, you start having to balance on whether you should load up on options onto a lower trim or opt for a less heavily optioned higher trim. In my case I have none of the performance enhancing suspension bits on my S, and feel it still turns a curve phenomenally. My other car is a M340 (the Macan is for the wife) and I’d rate the Macan S to come within spitting distance of being as enjoyable to drive.
I have a GTS as a more practical daily after trading in my E93 M3. While the M3 was more raw and felt faster, the Macan is actually faster but feels more refined. Granted I only do canyon carving, I'm sure at 9/10 it's different.
Curious do you have the earlier 360hp GTS or the newer 380? Are there any significant differences between them aside from the engine?
I have a 2018 so the 360. The biggest difference is the engines but the newer ones also went away from the physical buttons on the console. I'm sure they did some suspension updates but with PASM and PTV+, it's quite planted.
You aren't wrong about the CUV sucking, but sales and user reviews are undeniable proof that they are currently insanely "cool" and popular. As for hatchbacks they were always the cool alternative, and then the hothatch craze of the 80's helped to skyrocket that popularity forever cementing certain cars as iconic (Golf GTI, Peugeot 205 GTI, Fiesta XR2, etc.). Oh and the Muscle car is proof that just because one generation likes somehting doesn't mean the next one won't also like it, it's been cool to own a muscle car since 1964.
That's a good point.
I suppose there's a bit of ambiguity when it comes to the term "cool".
I think a better word for me to have chosen would've been "interesting" or "fun".
Exactly, think of it like the Top Gear cool wall.
Ah, the cool wall. RIP.
IMO Crossovers will eventually face the same backlash that station wagons and minivans did in the past. The abundance of them on the road and the amount driven by older people/parents will result in younger people eventually gravitating towards a different style of vehicle. For now, they sell like hotcakes because they are practical, generally affordable, and have more styling personality than cookie cutter sedans, which are seen by the general public as generic rental fleet type vehicles.
I think what’s different about SUVs and crossovers is they are seen as aspirational, at least moreso than wagons and minivans. Celebrities drive Range Rovers and Maybachs and they’re seen as a big, powerful status symbol on the road.
Anecdotal but I find this especially true with women. Off the top of my head, all of the (adult) women I know drive SUVs and would refuse to consider anything else.
Sedans were aspirational, once, and look where they ended up.
I’d argue they absolutely still are, just to a smaller group of customers than before. The sedan reigned supreme in eras with less choice for type of vehicle and when people wanted different things from their vehicles.
Depends on the car, I would say. Was a Camry or Accord ever really “aspirational”? You bought one because you needed reliable no-fuss practical transportation. The same way you would buy a RAV4 or CR-V.
A BMW always was and still is, even the “lower” models whether it’s a 3 series sedan or a X3 SUV.
I think if you ultimately aspire to owning a Range Rover Velar you’re much more likely to be interested in an economy crossover than an economy sedan.
A new Camry is aspirational….when all you can afford is a run down cavalier
>Anecdotal but I find this especially true with women. Off the top of my head, all of the (adult) women I know drive SUVs and would refuse to consider anything else.
That must be a regional thing, because around here (where pickups and CUVs/SUVs are extremely popular) I see as many women driving sedans and coupes (BMW 3-Series, Mustangs, and Chargers) typically.
My girlfriend intends to get a CUV, since she isn't particularly concerned with driving dynamics and wants to ensure that we have something with higher ground clearance for those occasions when that's necessary (although to be honest, I find myself wishing for AWD much more often, which I do intend to have on my next car).
Very well could be, I’m in Australia.
The most common justification I hear is the perceived increased safety and preference for the higher seating position.
Anecdotally practically none of the adult women I know drive SUVs
Question: how will “younger people” afford these new cars?
They can't and still purchase them.
Anything looks affordable with an 8 year lease!
No, it's because your average person feels more in command and more powerful with a higher seating position. A Tahoe or Expedition is a 70k buy in while a lifted hatchback is 40k. It's the cheapest way for most people to feel comfortable/powerful/in control.
It's funny, because I definitely don't. When I'm driving something tall, I'm always very aware of how limited I am in terms of agility and ability to maneuver quickly to avoid a collision. I have to drive CUVs, SUVs, and pickups on a semi-regular basis for work, but for my personal vehicle I prefer hatchbacks, wagons, and sedans.
I feel like the SUV kind of replaced the station wagon, and if that’s true then CUV’s seem to be replacing hatchbacks.
I mean stuff like the Kona is basically a lifted hatch lol
I think it's different with hatchbacks. Unlike bigger crossovers, CUVs, whatever, they can be light, nimble, have a low centre of gravity, et cetera, so they can be actually beneficial in motorsports, mainly rally. And if you think about a lot of the older rally cars, from like the 80s onwards, a lot of them were hatchbacks, or at least loosely based on one. 205 T16, Renault 5 Turbo, Metro 64R, throw in the original Mini too. And even now the hottest hatchback on the market is the Yaris GR, which has real rally and motorsports pedigree. And the other one that people are pretty high on is the Veloster N, another car that has a link to motorsports due to Hyundai's involvement and success in WRC.
Because thing is, sportiness is validated by motorsports, and motorsports success. You can brand anything as sporty, but it won't really get that image before it's actually out there competing. Subaru and Mitsubishi are good examples of this, they were nothing before Mäkinen and McRae made them sporty and famous. What motorsports did to Subaru and Mitsubishi is huge, and it is evident from the fact that even today when you think of Subaru you think of blue, and when you think of Mitsubishi you think of red. Truth is, they aren't the colours of Subaru and Mitsubishi, they are the colours of 555 and Marlboro, their title sponsors in WRC.
Next year WRC will see the new Rally1 regulations come to effect, and M-Sport's new car will be the Ford Puma Rally1. Now the Puma your aunt has is a crossover, not sporty, and it has really nothing to do with the WRC car. But will that sportiness rub on it from WRC? We'll see. I'd however bet that if there will be a crossover that has a sporty image in the future, it'll be the Ford Puma for this reason.
Were sedans sporty before the Audi Quattro and Mikkola, Blomqvist, Rohrl and Mouton?
With the low center of gravity thing, hatchbacks have the floor sunk below the frame rail while cuvs generally have a flat floor on the frame rail and you sit upright in a chair. Even disregarding actual handling, that seating position change probably has some impact of how the car "feels" to drive.
> hatchbacks have the floor sunk below the frame rail while cuvs generally have a flat floor on the frame rail
Very few cars have full frames. But yes, the seating position on a sedan/hatch will almost be lowed than on a comparable CUV.
I actually question the degree to which motorsport success is relevant to road car sales at all in 2021. I think such days may have passed, at least in the US.
I was talking about the perception of being sporty. Not sales numbers. And motorsports definitely plays a part in that, even today.
I always bring up Mercedes-Benz. When I was a kid, late 90s and early 00s, Merc was a brand for old people. Like when you thought of Mercedes-Benz, you thought of a wealthy 60 year old man driving a boring sedan. Since then Mercedes-Benz has made clear efforts to bring sportiness to their brand image, with cars like the SLS AMG, but also with their immensely successful F1 project.
Many AMG badged sportscars and a number of F1 championships later, I don't think about an old man anymore when I think of Mercedes-Benz. I think of a young wealthy family driving a sporty sedan. Even if in reality the most Mercs I see are diesel E Class wagons.
Motorsports success doesn't necessarily sell cars, but it affects your brand image and who buy your cars. That's the thing, that's always been the thing.
Where I live, the C, E and S-Class still have the image of being an old person's car.
edit: or taxi
Wagons went through it, minivans went through it, crossovers will as well.
When are wagons going to be cool again.
We are seeing this now with BOF SUVs
I own an Audi TT. If it had a traditional trunk I would not have been able put a new toilet from Home Despot in the back of my car.
The toilet test will soon be added to every Youtube reviewers routine, glorious
Not having to own a car is cool with the kids right now. They don’t even want to deal with it since they ain’t got no income for it.
This is what I see in my parts too. A lot of the younger people in the teens and twenties seem to want nothing to do with driving. They’d rather Uber or even take public transportation, and are eagerly awaiting self driving cars.
Crossovers are the modern wagon - except more useful and with attention actually paid to ergonomics in many of them. Many people like crossovers just because they're a jack of all trades. They tend to be planted enough in terms of handling, like a normal car, but with the space of a wagon and better ground clearance than both, closer to a SUV (at least in general).
The problem is that the car enthusiast perspective of what's "cool" is relatively jaded and tends to lean more into contrarian interests rather than genuinely liking weird stuff. It's why weird "enthusiast" spec of cars or enthusiast cars entirely - like diesel manual Jetta wagons or the Kia Stinger - sell very poorly, while normal people cars like the Volkswagen Tiguan or the Kia Telluride sell in droves. Most normal people actually *value* a jack-of-all-trades car that leans more into practicality, rather than trading off something strictly for another.
I would have bought an AWD crossover if I could afford it. In the meantime the Saturn wagon is plenty cool for me lol.
What kinda Saturn wagon do you own? The smaller SW or a larger LW?
LW300! I believe you commented on a post of mine a while ago. Suits all of my needs, roof racks for a canoe on the roof, and tons of truck space for my gear and a subwoofer. Just wish it was AWD.
I consider crossovers to be the "default" type of car these days.
People are just getting fatter and fatter and thus need bigger cars.
No one wants to admit this.
Crossovers are popular because Obama era regulations excluded vehicles with certain approach angles from MPG and emissions regulations
Absolutely. I can't see any difference between things like the Hyundai venue and the Nissan kicks, and the subcompact hatchbacks like the Nissan versa that are now dying.
All they did was jack them up an inch or so, and now people want them again. So it's no surprise companies and killing off the subcompact and small hatchbacks and replacing them with compact CUVs
Tesla has a good entry with the model y. Vs the model 3 it shares 75% of the same components. So it literally feels like the same vehicle when you drive it. But, it’s 2” longer, 3” wider and 7” taller. So the back seat feels like a completely different vehicle and the head room is worlds better. Plus the cargo room goes from about 18 cubic feet to 68 cubic feet. A side effect of the different interior space makes for a vastly better sound from the speakers despite them being practically identical.
The point is not all CUVs are just lifted sedans.
I don’t think performance CUVs should be discounted, they’re basically just hatchbacks with more ground clearance. Honestly, my cx30 turbo handles pretty darn well and the 0-60 time is around 6 seconds which still walks away from most things. It’ll probably get a bigger sway bar at some point though
Idk there are plenty of fast crossovers.
Vehicles are largely cool to those that need them.
I still think a good minivan is really cool.
2022 sienna platinum hybrid with awd? Yes please. Why can't i get awd with ottomans?
My wife is all about suvs tho. My daily is a c5 z06. But I still like a good minivan
Honestly, I think that SUV are the future and that they are here to stay. The only difference is that they are going to be electric. Electric car has a lower centre of gravity and that means that SUV will handle well. Just put some air suspension on them to choose the ride height, and everyone will love them. Except for style, there will be no reason to get a sedan.
> Just put some air suspension on them to choose the ride height
This really needs to become a thing. That was also mean no reason to have something really lifted on public roads. Lower it for normal driving, then lift it up for off-roading.
I wish more cars has this, I had to drive a few miles on a rough gravel road recently and my S-Line A6 hated it; anything over 7mph was extremely uncomfortable and the [lack of ground clearance](https://imgur.com/a/UwD5oIe) stopped me from using higher speeds to smooth it out.
As a fellow Audi owner, I dont really think mentioning its an S-Line really matters...
S-Line means it has the sport suspension, which is lower and stiffer. If the car had the normal non S-Line suspension it wouldn't have had the same difficulties on gravel. I said "S-Line A6" instead of "sport-suspension A6" thinking it sounded better (all S-Line A6's have sport suspensions with less ground clearance).
The sedan (usually) offers a lockable trunk for valuables to be kept secure (and unseen).
To answer your question, no hatchbacks were never really uncool. Modern crossovers would be better compared to minivans.
> Modern crossovers would be better compared to minivans.
If those minivans were actually mini.
Mazda 5: am I a joke to you?
/yes, I know it has been discontinued
No joke to me! When I was replacing my Tribute, the only non-compact CUV I was considering was a stick-shift 5. But I didn't like the lower ground clearance, and couldn't find any near me that were a fair price.
Crossovers wont become cool, they perform much worse, worse weight balance, higher air drag, higher weight, etc.
>> will it always be like that?
Depends. Just my two cents, but the big driver for CUV popularity is the economy. In 1970s America a blue collar worker could pay for a mortgage and two cars with money left over. Today , the blue collar job is in Bangladesh and the wage is eroded to boot.
So, people with kids/ pets/ hobbies that demand actual cargo space are buying a CUV. When the average single wage is $35k a year and the typical car sells for $40k, that’s the result.
If the economy flips back to where low wage people can afford what they used too, maybe the sports car will make a mass market comeback.
“Extremely boring people”
Is this satire lol
Boring cars typically belong to boring people
There's a very large number of exceptions to that theory, but I can't imagine the owner of an Aston Martin Cygnet to be dull, or the owner of a Buick to be exciting.
I think there's a loose correlation
>Boring cars typically belong to boring people
Cars may define you, but they do not define most people.
Sometimes interesting people are too busy doing interesting things to bother caring about what they drive.
Your old dadcar is a good example
I like graphs, data, video games, coding. I tend to stay home rather than go out. I can do exciting things, but I generally do not.
I think my car reflects that 😂
I don't agree with the OP by any means, but I want to point out two things:
First, most small crossovers have turbo 4s as well, so unless you go for something much larger or a luxury brand, you won't get any more straight-line performance from a crossover than a hatch. I can't say I'm familiar with all of them by any means, but just a quick glance at the engine options of the CR-V, Escape, Equinox, RAV-4, CX-5, Tuscon, and several others yields nothing that beats a typical warm hatchback like the Mazda 3 Turbo, let alone something like the Veloster N, Golf R, or Civic Type R. Luxury brands are their own thing, obviously, but if you can get an X3 or Cayenne with an inline 6 or V8 or something, you can easily get a 440i Gran Coupe or Panamera instead. The ones I listed farther above, which (along with similar rivals) make up the bulk of CUVs today, are pretty disappointing compared to a number of available hatchbacks, let alone sedans.
Second, while they do have their uses, most of the criticisms car magazines and other critics have for the CUVs and SUVs that actually have powerful engine options aren't about the straight-line performance, so defending them on that basis is missing the point. Their real shortcomings are in turns, where the relatively high center of mass and long suspension travel make them feel less agile and responsive, and often the stability control systems will reduce power in order to keep the vehicle stable. It's better than flipping, obviously, but it's not so much of a problem on sedans, hatchbacks, or coupes.
If your car isn't a 4wd manual miata wagon it sucks according to this sub.
People who think sedans or hatchbacks are life never had to fit strollers and kids stuff in their car.
I wish there were good affordable wagons. Volvo's are too expensive and the Outback is crap.
I would get a crossover if any of them came in stick shift. Seems like a good vehicle for lots of stuff but not exceptional in any one category. Alas I can only have two cars and I’m saving up for a house
>Right now, crossovers are very lame. I view it as the kind of car that's driven by extremely boring people who think of cars as appliances.
Right, because a 2012 A6 is the pinnacle of excitement.
A 450hp sedan isn't bad for someone who's still in college and paying their own way through school. Sorry it doesn't impress you
Nah, the car's fine, all things considered. What's not impressive is comments like yours that paint all owners of a certain type of car you don't personally like as somehow not True Car Enthusiasts^TM .
So you're saying it's bad to stereotype people based on the car they drive?
Why are you on this sub again?
Unless i move in the country and there are no paved roads, i will never ever buy a crossover/suv thing.
They are big, ugly and unnecesary in the city.
Certain crossovers aren't much bigger, and in some cases smaller, than sedans on the road.
Yeah, crossover isn't some codeword for "big". They come in a whole range of sizes. Vehicles like the HR-V, CX-3, Crosstrek, Trax/Encore, EcoSport, Niro, etc are small.
Hell, I've run into people who think the "C" in CUV stands for *compact*, and will call anything bigger than a RAV4 an "SUV" even if it's FWD unibody.
You mean it doesn't stand for compact!? Great, here I was thinking that meant compact and the S meant super sized.
In the defense of those who thought that way, the first definitive examples of CUVs in the '90s were all compact or smaller vehicles (RAV4, CR-V, Forester). It took a few more years for mid-size models to show up (Highlander, Pilot, Aztek), and the GM Lamdba models, arguably the first to really be full-size, wouldn't hit the market until 2007.
I was messing around. I also thought it was compact for a while when they first came out.
Young people often blindly vacillate on whether things are cool or not by how other people react. If they can get more attention by saying crossovers are bad (as many do here) they do that. When they can get more attention by trying to be ironic and making uncool crossovers cool again they will do that. You see this with a lot of old Radwood cars nobody cared about in their time. People just jump on opinions one way or another for attention
Lines blur between car body types. This is why mini vans, estates and suvs exist. Expecting an suv sedan in the future.
Yea I just graduated high school and I could kinda see that “sporty” crossovers/SUV’s were considered cool. Stuff like the hellcat Durango, BMM XM’s, etc. But especially the Escape ST’s like you’re saying, probably because I live in Michigan.
If anything, people with actual sporty cars like Mustangs, Camaros, WRX’s, GTIs, etc were considered to be douchebags/small dick energy/show offs etc. The only appreciation those cars got were from other car guys. Even pickup trucks are considered cooler than sports cars (not hating on trucks tho I think they r pretty dope).