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Minimum_Coffee_6527

I was sent a $2,000 bill for having a panic attack on the waiting room. If that’s over regulation I’d hate to see what they’d do without any rules. PS no I didn’t pay the bill. If you live in Florida fuck Jackson Health, they’re a scam.


GlockMat

Believe it or not, the rules are there to force them to charge you


happymatt207

Explain that to us.


GlockMat

The us have a lot of rules, many regarding the unions for doctors and nurses, that require a minimum amount for a treatment, and usually not charging those can land the hospital or clinic a money laundering suit I know, it sounds ridiculous, cuz it is, but the US actually have it, not to mention the sea of bureocracies due to the requirements of insurances, when those already lots of ploblems of their own And to top it all off, to avoid induced demand, you need to ask permission for you competitors to compete against them in the healthcare business


happymatt207

Just to clarify here. I own medical clinics. None of what you're saying is correct. Pricing for hospitals is negotiated between insurance companies and the corporation that owns the hospital. If the insurance company owns the hospital they set their pricing based on what other hospitals charge in the area and all will increase prices each year. Nursing unions have nothing to do with pricing. Clearly you're not very familiar with the industry. The American healthcare industry is drastically under-regulated. Insurers, hospitals and physicians can arbitrarily raise prices and gouge at will with no recourse by the patient or justification given. Every other developed country caps what can be charged for a procedure or treatment. They also cap what can be charged for medications. The "sea of bureaucracies" that you speak of does not exist.


MatthiasFoxFire

r/MurderedByWords


Responsible-Cash5891

Even if they did, it’s a hardly an excuse since other countries are doing just fine and the solution is qualified experts having a good chat with federal legislature.


happymatt207

Ya exactly. Every country had a medical association that doctors need to belong to and the same with nurses. The only difference is that the first goal of American healthcare is to turn a profit whereas it's not even on the list of goals for other countries. All they care about is good patient outcomes and trying to keep everyone alive. It would seriously take a miracle to really see a change in the US. It would take bipartisan votes and millions of dollars being taken out of politicians pockets.


itsdeeps80

The irony of you making this comment in this sub is just too much for me 😂


bitemynipple

I've seen a few of those, it's always hilarious


heavybell

So you're saying the issue is it's *poorly* regulated?


Vault-Born

That does not explain why above commentor would be charged for having a panic attack in their waiting room, they weren't seen and no care was provided so there was no treatment provided. I don't see how this could involve the nurse or doctor union, this seems pretty clearly like a bill for/from the hospital.


Minimum_Coffee_6527

Yeah, I was wondering too what this had to do with unions when I was not seen by doctors. My sister didn’t like the way the woman checking us in was speaking to her and we left before even finishing signing the forms to see the doctor. The only reason I got a bill is because I was born in that hospital and they had my records already from when I was a pediatric patient. I really don’t understand a lot of this thread lol.


Vault-Born

Even if it was a union provisions, union contracts are between the employee and employer so it still wouldn't be regulation, regulation always refers to government rules/laws in these types of convos They were just trying to do that Raegan Era bs where 'everything you hate is the governments fault so don't ever try to fix anything, just give all your rights to corporations'


DangerToDangers

You think other countries don't have unions and rules for minimum treatment? But yes, the sea of bureaucracy due to requirements of insurances is exactly the issue with not having universal healthcare and not regulating the insurance companies. I don't know anything about your last point and I really don't understand how it's even relevant to anything.


Linkonue

Why are you lying?


racoongirl0

Of course his pfp is Reagan. Of course it is.


Ga_Manche

Seeing statements like these over and over again makes me conclude, with confidence, that the educational system in the US is failing a lot of individuals. The lack of critical thinking in crafting a statement like this makes me want to pat the author on the shoulder while tears run down my face.


Some-Dill-Dough

Who needs critical thinking, when we live in the greatest country ever! USA, USA, USA!^/s


GlockMat

Yes, it is You think this a bad take, you clearly didnt studied US history


NotUrMomLmao

I'm not American, so I only know the US' history approximately. What happened in US history that would justify deregulating the market for healthcare industries? Because as far as I know (based on the experience in my country), private hospitals and healthcare agencies give way more priority to profit (rather than patients' wellbeing) than the state does.


Mecharonin

>What happened in US history that would justify deregulating the market for healthcare industries? Absolutely NOTHING.


vanyali

Well, he’s not wrong: that is a legit bad medical take.


MrWholesomeDad

This one hurts.


SouthofAkron

If only we could deregulate Healthcare insurance, the pharmaceutical industry and financial institutions - the markets would police themselves- I'm sure greed would not play into the equation.


One_Idea_239

Would be an awesome idea to deregulate pharma. They could end up selling all kinds of shit in the US while having to only sell good stuff in the rest of the world. Just think you could have 2 types of the same drug, 1 that contains the needed ingredients and 1 that doesn't for cheap. Oh hang on that already happens, it's called homeopathy


BenStoked

Pfizer introduces essential oil pharmaceuticals. Lavendar and peppermint to cure cancer, opiate addiction, and pedophilia.


CrispyFlint

It still does even with the regulations. Like, every time there's a regulation, there's loopholes big companies can do that small can't. And it just keeps going. And then they lobby and get more changes made. Same people are playing Dems and Republicans, pay one to do stupid shit, pay the other to stop anything from happening to them.


DangerToDangers

Yeeeaaah that's a huge exaggeration and generalization. That's like saying "people commit crimes anyway so we shouldn't have laws".


CrispyFlint

Ok. Then the laws we have now function perfectly, and it's possible to not by CVS, Walgreens, rite aid or attached to a mega chain store,.


DangerToDangers

Never claimed the current laws work perfectly. It's not black and white, dude. What I'm arguing against is that you're saying that regulation is pointless because "every time there's a regulation, there's loopholes big companies can do that small can't". That's simply not true. Many regulations work and have worked as intended, both in the US and the rest of the world.


CrispyFlint

I didn't say it was pointless to regulate them. I was saying the current regulation is pointless.


PK5466

Correct, except the greed part


Jazzeki

when people literaly are dumb enough to think healthcare is a luxury good....


PK5466

💀 satire?


GlockMat

Dont try to defend logic and capitalism unless you are in a "hate sub"


Seraphim9120

Your healthcare is less regulated than anywhere else in the developed world and it shows. I've never seen bills like those in the USA, people don't get bankrupted by hospital visits or surgery anywhere else. And don't bring up that "but our care and doctors are the best in the world" because it's bullshit.


PK5466

What?


hambone1981

We’ve been waiting for over a week for my wife’s bullshit insurance to give the green light for a back surgery while she can only get around the house on a walker and pain meds. And it took almost a month to even get to this point. She’s fucking miserable and they are just lolly gagging along.


FlamingPhoenix2003

Government: We are regulating healthcare! People: Are making healthcare more affordable? Government: No, we asked companies to regulate healthcare, and they might make healthcare expensive. Sorry, but if you aren't rich, you might be screwed!


PuffinOnAFuente

Did he….did he say, over regulated?! Hole E Shit, that’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard this week.


samgam74

*sigh


camirethh

As someone from the UK, most of us who pay attention to world news view American healthcare as some kind of dystopian nightmare. We can’t get our heads around having to pay when you’re sick.


SplendidPunkinButter

Does “if you don’t like it then leave” apply here? Or does that only count when liberals want to make actual improvements?


Aleafe1234

Hes right. Just look how bad certificate of need laws are for healthcare competition


BigBoy1963

Just look at the cheaper, and easily accessible healthcare in literally every other western democracy in the world. And i dont believe the quality of care is any different for the US patients on top of this.


DarkHelmet52

JMO but the US health care system isn't bad because its over or under regulated. Its bad because the pharmaceutical companies are major donors to both parties and write their own regulations for politicians of both parities to pass. It is improperly regulated as a result.


Critical-Edge4093

Really? How would over regulation make the Healthcare system cost more? Our Healthcare system is underregulated, allowing insurance companies and hospitals to over charge, or provide subpar treatments to get repeat business. And thats the worst issue with US hospitals, they are ran like businesses, and not the emergency service they should be.


eterevsky

Less regulation would mean more competition, and hence lower costs. For example, if it were easy to sell generic insulin in the US, it would have been sold, and would cost orders of magnitude cheaper than it does. Regardless of the situation with insurance, the medical costs in the US are among the highest in the world.


realSatanAMA

Kinda true, if you got rid of drug patents altogether it would solve a lot of issues. But using insurance as a medical safety net just can't work for everyone.. insurance as a concept just can't work without underwriting and denials.


Chyppi

Yeah it's all messed up. It's almost like the ones regulating health care here are paid by the ones running the health care. Drug patents are messed up. At the very least the length of it should be greatly shortened.


imgrandojjo

He's not totally wrong you know. If we went to a full-on free market model medical providers could only charge fees based on what the market would bear rather than being able to soak Medicare to increase their profit margins. It wouldn't be a great solution because it would cut the poorest out of medical care entirely, but it would bring medical costs down somewhat for most Americans. It's one of the reasons that I've been calling for years for the government to stop doing half measures. Either go to a single payer healthcare system or don't. either way we'd have a better idea what to expect than we do now.


GlockMat

Fun fact: To avoid induced demand new healthcare providers need to ask permission to open to the current providers Surprising no-one, asking your competition to compete with them is never a good idea. Also yes, the US healthcare system is way too overcomplicated and regulated


TheBlueWizardo

The problem is the US healthcare system is regulated by the US healthcare system. So in actuality, it's not regulated whatsoever.


Mecharonin

If that's true, then it is 100% the result of capitalist lobbying of the government.


GlockMat

"Getting the government to forbid competition, that thing that is REQUIRED for capitalism is the peak of capitalism" Americans, 2021


Stereotypically_Luna

no no, its the thing thats required for capitalism to **function properly**, unfortunately companies are incentivized to eliminate competition as they can then set prices at whatever they want


Mecharonin

Capitalism isn't about competition you asshat. It's about *making money*. Getting rid of your competition by any means necessary to jack up prices is Capitalist AF.


DuckKaczynski

Seeing as that is the direct result of capitalism, yes. Yes it is peak capitalism. Y'all really out here complaining that corperatisation isn't "true" capitalism when it's literally the direct result of capitalism.


Seraphim9120

Imagine you are in any business, in a powerful almost-monopoly position. Why would you want competition? All they do is take your customers and diminish your profits. From an outside view, yeah, competition is important for the market to work, but when you are in said market, the last thing you want is competition as it hinders your ability to charge whatever you want.


scusu33

Once again, an opinion cannot be incorrrect


WhimsicalPythons

The reasons for American Healthcare being terrible are not opinions.


scusu33

I don’t even want to debate what makes the healthcare system bad, it’s just annoying when people don’t know opinion from fact. That is an opinion, plain and simple


WhimsicalPythons

Sounds like you're doing exactly what you say is annoying.


PK5466

He isn’t wrong


Mecharonin

This is a sub to *mock* people who are confidently incorrect, not to *be* confidently incorrect.


GlockMat

I forgot this isnt a "hate sub", so defending the objectively better economic system is forbidden here


Stereotypically_Luna

remember kids, there are only two economic systems, capitalism and communism, no in betweens /s


PK5466

Mentally ill person, opinion rejected


DuckKaczynski

Mensa user, opinion rejected


Stereotypically_Luna

there are inbetweens though, thats not an opinion, treating capitalism and communism as absolutes and not two points on a sliding scale is just wrong and please dont call me mentally ill


Linkonue

I’m really confused as to why they called you mentally ill out of absolutely nowhere ?_?


PK5466

I never even treated them as absolutes. I never even mentioned communism.


Linkonue

Wtf?


PK5466

Another one ☝️


Linkonue

How am I mentally ill?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Linkonue

i don't think you understand i ask you how am i mentally ill, not if i prefer dick or pussy


Linkonue

So, how is being gay a mental illness?


GlockMat

There are in-betweens, the scale usually is how cronny the system is


Stereotypically_Luna

and im guessing capitalism = no cronyism and communsm = full cronyism?


CrispyFlint

No. Both are full at most times.


GlockMat

usually yes, but you can also achieve communism by starving everyone to death, since you know, equal wealth of 0 is stil equal wealth


BigBoy1963

Theres no cronyism in capitalism? Are you sure mate?


Mecharonin

Then how come I've been upvoted and the person defending the worse system is downvoted?


GlockMat

You know, americans think america is captalistic


hyrppa95

America is an example how unregulated capitalism does not work


Chyppi

It's not gonna be apparent to these people until the day it completely and catastrophically collapses. Which isn't too far.


DangerToDangers

How is it not?


Linkonue

Because you’re gonna tell me America isn’t capitalistic?


Exciting_Photo_8103

Putting Glock in your name is a little on the nose there kiddo. You could have just named yourself tinydickMat.


PK5466

I’m not wrong though


Mecharonin

Got any evidence?


PK5466

Cuba, Venezuela, Canada, The United Kingdom, etc.


BigBoy1963

Explain the UK?


PK5466

Inefficient healthcare system


BigBoy1963

And you know this for fact? Because our system seems to be a lot better than yours on the face of it.


PK5466

You’re wrong


BigBoy1963

Im not sure you know anything about the uk health system. And i dont know about the american one really. All i do is know, my friends pay roughly 2500 dollars a year in health insurance. And that doesnt actually cover the cost of calling an ambulance out. Which im told would cost an additional 5000 dollars. In the UK you can get whatever healthcare you want, whenever and it is almost exclusively free at the point of access (even if you arent a citizen some elements will be free). And you know, we arent a failed state or a bankrupt economy so i dno how you manage to ignore that.


BoneHammer62

It definitely is a factor. People here are blind and don’t do their research.


Jazzeki

i mean it still really isn't because the closest actual argument you make is that what regulation does exist, exists to make the system worse for the users. but that's like saying safety systems in cars suck because i made a car whose safety system is is blowing up if anything touches the car.


BoneHammer62

If you don’t think regulation plays a factor at all then I don’t think either of us should waste time arguing about it.


Jazzeki

so are you also against safety systems in cars?


kilsuojakk

Congrats on the new adventure!!


Standard_Resident833

It's regulated in entirely the wrong approach. For instance drug prices are so high here because companies want to make the most cash and are allowed to price gouge us. Trump signed an E.O forcing companies to give us the same prices the rest of the world gets and biden cancelled it. 1 small example of a system writ large thats fucked. And government is almost entirely to blame for this ridiculousness and so giving them full control of the Healthcare system would only lead to even more fuck ups.


Flappety

Ummmmmm???


chrisinor

Typical conservative take. Exploitative greed is obviously the governments fault and hasn’t been present and obvious throughout American history.


Kombat-w0mbat

United States the only place where you can be minded your business getting your mail get shot and then be crippling debt from it


Bonsai37

Lets keep politics out of this stuff. Also subjective material doesn’t belong here. Bad is very subjective.


AversionFX

Um.... It's true. Evidence? Insulin prices. Parallel: Why is California so fucking expensive to live in? Overregulation. Anytime the government gets involved to make things "better" it makes everything measurably worse.


DuckKaczynski

Idk fam I'm doing pretty well here in Australia with public healthcare and pharmecutical benefits scheme, both direct results of government intervention


AversionFX

No freedom of speech, you can be arrested for being outside your home... I mean, yeah, you're doing "really well" with all of that government regulation.


DuckKaczynski

No lmao? You really can't. I don't know what shit youv been watching but lockdown ended like over a month ago. Good one!


AversionFX

> I don't know what shit youv been watching but lockdown ended like over a month ago. "You're an idiot, you can't be arrested for being outside of your home, **they stopped doing that a month ago.**" LMAO


DuckKaczynski

You could already leave your home during lockdown anyway?? Bro what I don't think you know what you're talking about. And yes, lockdown was very effective


AversionFX

>You could already leave your home during lockdown anyway?? Except for the people being arrested who were outside their homes after curfew. >And yes, lockdown was very effective Yeah, governments are usually very successful at taking the rights of their citizens. Imagine literally arguing for government overreach and then saying you've got it so good. Fucking hilarious. You people are absolutely retarded.


DuckKaczynski

> imagine literally arguing for government overreach and then saying you've got it good Yeah actually it's pretty good we haven't had literally 100s of thousands of people die of covid for a start


AversionFX

> we haven't had literally 100s of thousands of people die of covid for a start **You live on a gigantic fucking island, genius. You are completely isolated.** God, you people. So fucking dumb.


DuckKaczynski

Yeah, an island with covid-19 on it dumbass. What do you think we just somehow didn't have the virus?


Seraphim9120

Maybe your politicians just suck or, more likely, get paid off by lobbyists to introduce bad regulations? Because if you look at systems way more regulated than yours, for example Germany, they work pretty fucking great. They aren't anywhere near perfect, but they work. And unless you have a disease that's so rare that insurance won't cover it because they never heard of it, you don't really notice the bills (if you get any)


DangerToDangers

Bruh... the issue with insulin prices is that they are not regulated so pharma companies can charge whatever they want for them. The reason why California is so expensive is because of lack of housing, and that's not exactly overregulation but people not wanting more housing (especially affordable one) in their areas. I don't think you understand the situation and have just cast "regulation" as a boogeyman like your right wing media has taught you to.


AversionFX

>The reason why California is so expensive is because of lack of housing, and that's not exactly overregulation but people not wanting more housing (especially affordable one) in their areas. And there isn't enough housing _because of government regulation_. through zoning laws. Further. nobody wants to build housing because it's extremely expensive _because of government regulation_. >that's not exactly overregulation but people not wanting more housing (especially affordable one) in their areas. You couldn't have been more wrong here if you tried. >I don't think you understand the situation and have just cast "regulation" as a boogeyman like your right wing media has taught you to. Or, more likely, because I live in California, you retarded dipshit.


DangerToDangers

>And there isn't enough housing because of government regulation. through zoning laws But that's just one of the factors. The issue is not regulation: it's shitty regulation. The answer would not be to deregulate housing, but to use regulation to allow for denser development. Which is something California has been trying to do for a while... but NIMBYs. >nobody wants to build housing because it's extremely expensive because of government regulation Building is expensive because land is expensive for the reasons mentioned above. It's not just general government regulation. If so, could you please tell me which regulations that are not necessary for safety are making it so expensive? >You couldn't have been more wrong here if you tried. You shitting me? Have you never heard of NIMBYs? "Several factors have together caused constraints on the construction of new housing: density restrictions (e.g. single-family zoning) and high land cost conspire to keep land and housing prices high; community involvement in the permitting process allows current residents who oppose new construction (often referred to as NIMBYs) to lobby their city council to deny new development; environmental laws are often abused by local residents and others to block or gain concessions from new development (making it more costly or too expensive to be profitable); greater local tax revenues from hotels, commercial, and retail development vs. residential incentivize cities to permit less residential; and construction costs are greater because of high impact fees, and often developments are only approved if union labor is used." >Or, more likely, because I live in California, you retarded dipshit. Yeeaah, from your reply you still seem to think regulation is some kind of evil boogeyman without even understanding what it is and why it's there. You just think it's bad because Fox News told you.


AversionFX

>But that's just one of the factors. The issue is not regulation: it's shitty regulation. The answer would not be to deregulate housing, **but to use regulation to allow for denser development**. LMAO. So, use regulation to further overpopulate CA cities so that every city can have traffic on par with Los Angeles. Because *that's* not a stupid idea or anything. >Building is expensive because land is expensive for the reasons mentioned above. **I wonder why**. It's also extremely expensive to build because of **government-required licensing and taxes**. >If so, could you please tell me which regulations that are not necessary for safety are making it so expensive? Mountains of licenses, fees and taxes **that have nothing to do with safety**. >"Several factors have together caused constraints on the construction of new housing: density restrictions (e.g. single-family zoning) and high land cost conspire to keep land and housing prices high; community involvement in the permitting process allows current residents who oppose new construction (often referred to as NIMBYs) to lobby their city council to deny new development; environmental laws are often abused by local residents and others to block or gain concessions from new development (making it more costly or too expensive to be profitable); greater local tax revenues from hotels, commercial, and retail development vs. residential incentivize cities to permit less residential; and construction costs are greater **because of high impact fees, and often developments are only approved if union labor is used.**" I love that you literally quote a story that makes my point and you're still too fucking stupid to get it. Get the fuck out of here with your double-digit IQ bullshit. The _actual_ impact of "NIMBY" bullshit is practically zero. I have friends in the construction business. Nobody wants to build because the government makes it prohibitively expensive and it's simply not worth the effort.


DangerToDangers

>LMAO. So, use regulation to further overpopulate CA cities so that every city can have traffic on par with Los Angeles. Because that's not a stupid idea or anything. So how the fuck do you want to solve the housing crisis if you don't want to build more houses!? Are you shitting me!? You're complaining that retgulations are stopping housing development when you yourself don't even want more housing development! And then you say the NIMBY factor is non-existent! ​ >I wonder why. It's also extremely expensive to build because of government-required licensing and taxes. Because of the reasons I already mentioned. >Mountains of licenses, fees and taxes that have nothing to do with safety. Uh huh, like? Can you actually elaborate? >I love that you literally quote a story that makes my point and you're still too fucking stupid to get it. Get the fuck out of here with your double-digit IQ bullshit. The actual impact of "NIMBY" bullshit is practically zero. I have friends in the construction business. Nobody wants to build because the government makes it prohibitively expensive and it's simply not worth the effort. Can you not think? It's literally ONE of the reasons but you're chucking it up to "regulations". There are several factors but you just want to go for your boogeyman. Do you want to go back one more step? You never explained why you think regulations make insulin more expensive while other countries where they regulate its price it's A LOT cheaper.


AversionFX

>So how the fuck do you want to solve the housing crisis if you don't want to build more houses!? You solve the housing crisis by building more units, obviously. More density creates other problems, though. Higher density means more waste (in every sense of the word), it means more pollution, it means more traffic, etc. But I know that building towers of shoeboxes for people to "live in" isn't an actual solution. >You're complaining that retgulations are stopping housing development when you yourself don't even want more housing development! And like a typical person with your voting proclivity, you fail to understand that multiple things can be true at the same time. Housing costs are solved by having more units, that's Economics 101. More units means more people and more people means more traffic and congestion. Lack of housing is only one part of the problem. A very large part of the problem is that the government has literally made it too expensive for anyone to *want* to build homes. Again, understanding nuance is important. >Uh huh, like? Can you actually elaborate? Are you actually fucking stupid? Permits, fees and taxes **that are required to construct anything**.


DangerToDangers

> You solve the housing crisis by building more units, obviously. More density creates other problems, though. Higher density means more waste (in every sense of the word), it means more pollution, it means more traffic, etc. But I know that building towers of shoeboxes for people to "live in" isn't an actual solution. Higher density does not create pollution. Literally the opposite. Lower density and car dependency is what create pollution. Apartments buildings are A LOT more eco friendly than detached single family housing. >And like a typical person with your voting proclivity, you fail to understand that multiple things can be true at the same time. Housing costs are solved by having more units, that's Economics 101. More units means more people and more people means more traffic and congestion. Lack of housing is only one part of the problem. A very large part of the problem is that the government has literally made it too expensive for anyone to want to build homes. Again, understanding nuance is important. Talk about calling the kettle black. You don't seem to understand that regulation is not the only problem. And once again it's not just regulation itself, but bad regulation. If you want lack of regulation you can look at Texas and its shitty energy grid. That's what lack of regulation does. >Are you actually fucking stupid? Permits, fees and taxes that are required to construct anything. So which permits and taxes do you think are unnecessary. Please do tell. Also how does regulation make insuline more expensive?


eterevsky

I wouldn’t say the overregulation is the *only* bad thing about US healthcare, but it definitely contributes to incredibly high healthcare costs. E.g. if it were easy from the regulations standpoint to sell generic insulin it would’ve been sold at a fraction of a cost. If it were easy for a third party to open additional hospitals, it would’ve been done, considering the existing huge profit margins.