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A hymen can “break” for reasons other than sex. I believe they can also be surgically reconstructed.
Even if we accept their stupid assumption. What's the way to tell a man is a virigin? Oh, there is none? Well that's convenient. But when you point that out it makes it seem like this virginity thing is mostly to control/shame women
I agree entirely. As the word virgin comes from Latin virgina, meaning a young unmarried woman (who people therefore assume is sexually inexperienced). So etymologically, there's no such thing as a male virgin.
The latin word is virgo actually, though virgin is derived from the accusative virginem.
Only 20%? That’s like Latin, but worse
Everyone on Reddit is a virgin. I’ve solved it.
Well I don't know about your personal experiences with this. But the last 10 years I've mostly heard and read it, used as an insult to insinuate a male is sexually inexperienced.
"Don't be such a virgin" "Omg he is such a virgin"
Though My argument is about western countries where we still circumsise Boys (But that is fiiine hush).
I agree that the problematik pure girl virgin myth is detrimental to women in less developed countries.
The most common reason for the hymen braking is being born.
A hymen that is fully intact would not let menstrual blood out. It does happen in very rare instances, and in developed places it ends with an emergency room visit, leading to emergency surgery. There are 5 types of hymens total.
A fully intact hymen (it is very dangerous, and if left untreated can lead to death).
A split hymen: it is characterized by being mostly open with lines of connective tissue. (Most of the time it’s benign, but can make using tampons imposible, or unable to remove. It also makes penetrative sex very painful)
Cribriform: it is characterized by having multiple small holes in it. (In most cases it makes it impossible to insert anything into the vaginal Canal. if not removed sex is very painful, accompanied with a lot of bleeding)
Microperforate: it has one very small hole. (Not big enough for anything to be incurred. Again penetrative sex would be very painful, and a lot of bleeding)
Then we come to a “normal” hymen. The one that most girls, and women have. It is a small remnant of tissue around the inside of the vaginal canal. (Tampons can be inserted and removed easily. It would also be unaffected by penetrative sex)
There are a lot of ideas about the hymen that are incorrect.
A surgical procedure called a hymenectomy is incredibly easy. removing excess tissue to allowing for blood to flow more freely, and the use of tampons and menstrual cups.
So yeah the idea the virginity is something that can be proven is incorrect.
I read a study once about this cause I was mad when I learned how hard school fucked up teaching me this.
The study showed: (no idea how accurate and I can't seem to find it again as Google floods the results with "the myth of the hymen" articles)
Majority of sexually active women has an intact hymen. A huge part of the volunteers had bled during their first time or for other reasons. The result was 1 of 2 conclusions.
1: the hymen heals, which considering it's a thin piece of flesh, is totally possible.
2: the hymen never broke in the first place. The blood was just tearing of the vaginal wall, which is also totally possible.
The study agreed on the scientific study that the hymen isn't meant to break, nor is first time meant to hurt. If the hymen breaks, it it's most likely due to lack of natural (or unnatural) lubricant. Probably due to nervousness as everyone is worried during their first time. Especially women when they're taught "oh yea, the penis is going to tear apart a piece of your vagina, you will bleed and it will hurt". Good luck being relaxed and comfortable with that running through your head....
That is all according to that study of course. Including the possibilities. However if the study is trustworthy, no study is more accurate than its volunteer group size. I don't know how large the volunteer group was.
For anyone wondering how hard my country fucks up the hymen. In my language it literally is called "virginity membrane". There is no alternative name. I fucking hate that specific part.
Also I'm not a woman. I have 2 sisters and I'm diagnosed autistic, one of my autistic traits is a total hatred of misinformation. It's lies after all. And no one likes being lied to.
This is a public website. I'm sure a proper educated gynecologist can either confirm or deny these allegations of they see this comment. And if someone can, please do correct me for the sake of the previous statement about misinformation.
Sidenote: this comment is fucking long so here's an arbitrary extension.
very cool, I ran across a study I don't know how long ago (I'd never be able to find it again) about how with no knowledge of the patients, doctors could not tell the difference between the vaginas of virgins or prostitutes
so messed up how society constructs myths they want to be true.... for reasons....
There was also one done on pregnant teenagers. I think it was in Europe. The biggest problem was that it did not have a large study group. It was something like 60? Anyway I’m not going hunting for it when the idea of virginity being something physical is total BS.
The whole thing reminds of livestock. You know filly/mare, heifer/cow stuff - gauging worth by proving an animal isn't barren.
It's all women as commodities and gauging their prices as the underlying theme.
So important that whipping up myths, damn the consequences (for women) is still so popular.
The hymen is a lil fold and has nothing to do with virginity except if you have an abnormal one which prohibits you from having enjoyable penetrative sex because it's in the way, but that is not common.
Stop it with the hymen myth and virginity checks and general association of virginity with anatomy.
There is no way to know if someone is a virgin by scrutinising their vagina. No. Way.
Unless there's semen. That's a clue actually.
And you can have sex without breaking the hymen, so an intact hymen means very little.
The hymen can't break in the way people think. If it would be a seal like for a ketchup bottle, there wouldn't any bodily fluids go out of the vagina - which would lead to many problems. The hymen is not closed. In fact, most of the times, you can't tell by the state of the hymen whether a girl had sex or not. Or a woman.
It is such a big myth I have to puke thinking I believed this for decades
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
Virginity is a social construct
\[*Tiktok of a woman talking with the caption "virginity is a social construct, & there is no real underlying significance to the concept of virginity"*]
But this is the truth though. Virginity IS a social construct. We, as humans, decided one day that it was a thing.
A hymen is an observable thing too 🤔
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Girls can have sex without breaking their hymen, and they can break their hymen without having sex. There is no intrinsic link between the two.
except they arent directly connected
the concept of "virginity" is more of a patriarchal "this woman has never been sullied" kind of idea, making them more "valuable as property" men.
and the hymen can break from lots of activities, including riding a horse, so I would assume in the thousands of years when riding horses was the primary means of transport there were a LOT of women who were "virgins" with broken hymens.
Connecting virginity to hymen is the false thing
Not the concept of virginity
Except no one is claiming the concept of virginity isn't a thing, it obviously is because we're discussing it.
The claim is that it is a social construct, which just means that at some point, humans made up that concept.
Equating virginity with a woman’s worth is absolutely a social construct. I think that’s what she means.
There are other connotations of purity and goodness associated with virginity, too, which are false. Virgins can be assholes, too (just take a look at some of the incel subs for examples).
No, virginity itself is the social construct. Values society ties to the construct might also be constructs (like purity, depending on your definition), but that doesn't change the fact that at some point humans just made up the idea of virginity.
I doubt that riding horses back then was as common as driving a car today. Other means were probably much more common.
Male virginity exists
It sure does
But we don't have fancy flesh bits to check beforehand and confirm it, smh my head. ^^/s
Not on me it doesn’t….. I’ve totally touched a woman…… I’m so alone.
If virginity was factually and scientifically a thing, there would be one clear definition.
The very fact that we debate what a virgin actually is, shows that it is a socially constructed concept.
Not even to mention that it is frequently used to be a judgement, too.
Oh, the irony.
This obsession with dicks in vaginas defining sex, and virginity or the lack of it being incredibly noteworthy, is really very homophobic and also fairly sexist l. I guess most people aren't wanting to talk about that yet, but really they should.
I already knew Reddit is an loony bin and yet you as an example makes me speechless nontheless.
Do your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk?
:-) Asking for a friend.
Maybe a more helpful comment would be explaining why you think those things matter?
The hymen myth, that is.
The importance of virginity is a social construct. The fact of virginity is real. WTF? People don't know how to think?
According to this ideology, homosexual people can go at it absolutely hammer and tongs, fucking every which way, yet still would remain virgins forever due to the lack of an all important penis inside vagina moment.
Heterosexual people could also have a great deal of sex while never really acknowledging it, until the old in n' out takes place. And then, however unremarkable, it's the one kind of sex that's viewed as important or acknowledged as existing at all really.
I know. Oh! Ah. I'm a... an ancient virgin, I guess. : /
There is no "fact" of virginity. "This woman has had a penis in her vagina", or alternatively "This man has had his penis in a vagina" are distinctions that we choose to name, but that doesn't make virginity "real".
We could draw a distinction between a person who has lost a tooth and one who hasn’t, or a person who has read Kipling’s *The Jungle Book* and one who hasn’t, or a male person who has had his penis in a pineapple and one who hasn’t. Those things are all "facts". But we have a term for people of whom "a penis in your vagina/your penis a vagina" is true and attach social significance to it, but do not have a term for the others, and that is what is meant by calling virginity a social construct.
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Everyone knows what the word virgin means.
It's not so much about the hymen as the penatration.
There is a social concept around virginity but that
does not mean that virginity does not exist.
But being a virgin just means you have not had sex yet, I don't understand how that is a social construct? The importance of it is another story, but it's existence is not debatable.
If you've had anal sex, are you still a virgin? Does it differ depending on whether you were the inserter or the insertee?
If someone performs oral sex on you, are you now one of their sexual partners? If not, why is it called oral *sex*? Does it matter whether you came?
If you're a lesbian who has had only female partners, but hundreds of them, are you still a virgin?
It's because questions like that are legitimate that "virginity" is a social construct. "Social construct" just means that we decide what physical facts to attach significance to.
Sex means any sexual interaction, that involves all the things you mentioned I dont understand how this is a hard concept for people
So if you've given someone a handjob, you're not a virgin?
you participated in a sexual act, virgin implies your lack of having done something, giving a handjob would mean no, you are not a virgin
I am certain lots of people disagree with you on that. The disagreement is what shows that it is a social construct. It’s not enough for you to say “but I’m right”.
Kissing can be a sexual act, so if you kiss, you're no longer a virgin, by this logic.
Your definition of a virgin is something very few people would agree with.
A social construct is something that only exists because society constructed it.
There is no biological difference between someone who has had sex and someone who has not, but the social difference is meaningful to many, many people.
That is because virginity is a social construct.
How do you define sex? Is it penis in vagina only? In that case, gay couples can be sexually active their whole lives without losing their virginity. Or is the definition broader? If so, which specific acts count and which don’t? Does a hand job count? What about dry humping that ends in orgasm or intercrural sex? The fact that there’s no “correct” answer to these questions and that different people will all answer differently shows that it’s a social construct.
Edited because of autocorrect
As far as I am aware, you are a virgin until youve had sexual intercourse with someone, meaning anything sexual that involves contact of your genitals with something else on someone else, it is no one specific act on its own. No, accidental contact is not what I am talking about, hence why I said it must be "sexual" because I know you or someone else is gonna bring that up.
I think the key point is that virginity and the hymen are only tangentially or sometimes related.
Hymens are the real myth.
OP is face palm
So how long before op is posted as being confidently incorrect?
People are saying hymens can break, and they are right, but they also heal, and rarely break during sex at all.
Virginity is a social construct but so is everything else: math, money, how much a pokemon card is worth, presidents, celebrities etc… So while there’s no way of knowing who has their virginity, it still “exists” as much as money does
I mean, not doing something and giving “not doing something “ a specific name is a thing. We just dont have words for everything. I never felled a tree but there isnt a word for it. We are just super obsessed with sex so we have words for it.
Just because something is a social construct doesn’t mean it is meaningless. Laws are social constructs and these words we are typing is a social construct. That argument would only hold weight with me if you rejected EVERYTHING that is a social construct.
I can promise you that if there were an equivalent for men, I would have had plenty of exes demanding a physical after I was out too late with the boys. Nobody wants to be cucked. That aside, yes, there's a lot of ignorance about some parts of the body.
Edit: I can already see where this is going. The first part is a joke. The second part is not me rejecting the idea of doing away with the idea of virginity. Just me saying that you have to actually make an argument when advocating for a construct to be changed or abolished. I say that in like 3-5 different ways. I’m not sure how it can possibly be misconstrued as defending the construct of virginity. I just don’t want to have to respond to thirty comments all arguing against something I didn’t say.
They’re technically correct. They have plausible deniability that they weren’t implying all the shit associated with saying that haha.
And I just have to include this anytime I see someone referring to something as a social construct. Just because something is a construct, social or otherwise, does not mean it can just be changed or abolished willy nilly. Constructs have utility and are generally based on something. Give an actual argument for why that construct needs to be adjusted for accuracy or done away with altogether.
An example is imaginary numbers. Numbers are a construct and at one point we only have real numbers. One day people discovered that imaginary numbers were a thing and they were useful. In spreading the idea the proponents could have just said on repeat that numbers were a construct and so no one should be so attached to the current number system. Or they can explain why adding the concept of imaginary numbers would make the construct more useful and accurate to what we see in reality. Simple.
The virginity construct has no use. It only had use when you consider women to be either clean or tainted.
Time for it to go
Ok. And what I said was that if they don’t have a use or if it’s inaccurate then you should give the reasons for why that is rather than just declare that it’s a social construct and thinking that just stating that automatically makes the argument.
Did you even read it before responding? I feel like I made that redundantly clear.
Actually I make this PSA based off of personal experience. Back when I didn’t understand transgender people(not that I’m an expert now) and definitely not non-binary people and I decided I didn’t want to be ignorant. I went in search of answers and at the time articles and anyone I encountered would say gender was a social construct and that’s about it. They would explain that we made up the concept and I’m like yeah we made it up to contextualiza sexual dimorphism in regards to social roles and structures. By my understanding they fit so what’s the argument for why they should be change. Obviously I did not say it like that but usually people who just become angry broken records and I went from being open to learning to thinking “So they don’t actually have arguments support their position, I guess that means it’s a bad position.” Now for me personally I knew that people were probably just doing a bad job of explaining their position because I’ve run into to people making the same claims about time and money. I was eventually able to get them to explain their points although in their case the points were dumb as hell, particularly with time. I’m open to abolishing money. I understood that in this situation people were taking my questioning as opposition because it’s a heated topic. Anyway over time I heard more and arguments relating to the topic and now I get it. But not everyone has those same experiences to tell them to be more patient plus many are coming in with negative feelings toward it. I’d say I was neutral but leaning negative due to confusion.
So this is why I bring this up. It’s horrible advocacy to just say something is a social construct and leave it at that, especially if you attack the person for not just agreeing. If I came up to you and said “Family is a social construct. So let’s get rid of it.” I doubt you’d buy that.
But to be fair. Hymen does not only break after the first time sex. It can as well break from an accident or even to far stretching.
I mean, lots of words are social constructs used to define something. Whether you care about a label or not is up to you.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but words have always been made up, and their meaning has always been fluid.
Look, pop that cherry. Get it over with. Next!
virginity isn’t a social construct
Who said virginity wasn't a social construct
I mean it is significant to most ppl, its the first time u had that experience which is, well, very important in your life and usually very special, putting no importance on it at all and saying it doesn't exist and is purely a social construct made to demoralise women is kinda ignorant tbh. To be clear I am not in the camp of ppl who think it's observable or the be all and end all of feminine virtue
Saying something is a social construct isn’t the same as saying that it doesn’t exist or that it can’t impact people’s lives. Also, I’d bet that a big part of why “losing your virginity” is such a big deal to so many people has more to do with society at large saying it’s important than anything else