T O P

[Andy Strickland] Good chance Ottawa will soon be naming Brady Tkachuk Captain on the heels of 7 year extension.

[Andy Strickland] Good chance Ottawa will soon be naming Brady Tkachuk Captain on the heels of 7 year extension.

cwnorman

As long as this isn't a sign and trade like they did to Hossa.


dsjunior1388

There was another pretty dramatic bit of context there, though, let's hope we don't see that happen again.


getsangryatsnails

You mean that thing that happened a decade and a half ago, which also brought us a back to back 50 goal scorer and solidified one of the greatest top lines of all time?


cwnorman

Yes. Hossa was my favorite player back then and I still get jittery when they sign a player to a big contract because of it.


getsangryatsnails

You see that clip of him and Gaborik skating again? Made me smile.


Arching-Overhead

No one is going to argue that Hossa had the better career and it's fair to 'what if?' about what might have been, but fearing every major contract signing because of a single and beneficial trade is on you lol


BrokenBy

was it ever confirmed that Chara left because of how they treated Hossa? I know it was at least rumoured.


BigShoots

Sens basically had to choose between Chara and Redden, they chose Redden.


Arching-Overhead

What I remember reading was that Ottawa offered both of them matching contracts that were somewhat under their market value in effort to keep them. The Hossa trade upset Chara enough to price him out of Ottawa, and Redden was offered a contract. There were also reports that he wanted to be an NHL captain and that provided an additional hurdle.


Jaycorr

lol that's what they told you and you believed them I guess


getsangryatsnails

Hard to confirm something like that but it definitely didn't help. There were a lot of rumors that he was furious. I remember hearing he wanted the C too but again can t confirm. The official reason I think is that they had to make a choice between Chara and Redden and they kept Redden.


TheMightyRacinette

Allegedly cost us Chara though.


zdelusion

If we get two 50 goal seasons out of whoever we get do we care?


MeanderAndReturn

I do, but that's only because im a biased Marian Hossa fan and he's the reason im a Sens fan today. some wounds will never heal...


danielpalfredsson

It isn't a sign and trade, but the NMC was probably an important aspect. It ensures if Ottawa decides to trade him or he decides to request a trade that he controls his own destiny. Future NMCs are no longer voided with trades. If Brady is being shopped the summer before it kicks in, teams will want to know that he wants to be there because if they give up a ton for him and he isn't happy, they will have to trade him again for much less once his NMC becomes active and he can veto trades.


MeanderAndReturn

ugh please don't bring that up. it's still too fresh for me


mikedadbabclocksocks

Chuck! No, Captain Chuck!


unpersons505

I was not expecting a Chunk reference here


Povilitus

HEY DUDES ARE YOU READY TO PLAY FOR OUR FAVORITE OWNER EUGE


Schweed6494

GONE ARE THE GOOD DAYS... for Penguin fan's


Povilitus

New album kicks so much ass, been jamming it since summer and it gets better. Takes me back to being in high school when I first discovered them


johnnylawrwb

This opening line was so corny I avoided this band for like 5 years lol. They're great though I was missing out.


Poif3ct

Things I never thought I'd see here for 500, Alex.


[deleted]

Brady Tcachuc


UsedToBeBradfordTwo

I guess he didn’t want to leverage Ottawa to walk to UFA after all


danielpalfredsson

I wouldn't be so sure. If he wanted to go long term originally, they could have gotten this done months ago. This is a very obvious compromise. Ottawa takes off a year and gives the NMC, Brady goes long term because Dorion wasn't budging. The original offer from Dorion was apparently Chabot's contract (8x8/10 team NTC). If it's accurate that Tkachuk was insisting on a bridge, this is a crowning moment in Dorion's career. He went toe to toe with one of the most difficult agent/family combos in hockey, and negotiated them up to giving up 3 UFA years when they were rumored to be set on zero. The AAV did not increase much from his original offer. Tkachuk is overpaid based on his on ice contributions, but people continually refuse to grasp how important he is to the team. They built the entire team around him and his style. Getting Tkachuk locked in long term is going to make it easier to get the other players who look to him for leadership to also continue buying in. This is Dorion's real proudest day.


chiddie

Pierre Dorion doesn't get enough respect/recognition for his abilities as a GM.


danielpalfredsson

I'm not trying to re-write history and say he is an amazing GM. He was inexperienced and thrust into the most difficult GM job in the league, so it is hard to fairly judge his performance. In terms of all the memes, proudest day, did good work, etc - it is all true today. This is a franchise altering signing that be pulled off if the Tkachuks were insisting on a bridge deal.


chiddie

I don't think he's a top-10 GM currently in the league, but I think there's a solid argument for him somewhere in the 15-20 range.


MeanderAndReturn

scouting/drafting? I'd say he's top 10. when trading for futures/assets he's top half. when trading away futures/assets.... ugh. he's bottom 3. FA signings, bottom 5?


MooshSkadoosh

Hard to pull off FA signings when you're the GM of Ottawa right now. Although nowhere near Buffalo-level in terms of the last decade, currently you guys aren't a hot spot for FAs considering financial muscle and playoff aspirations. In a few years this could change a lot though.


LegitStrats

He's easily one of the worst when it comes to pro scouting. But at least his amateur scouting offsets that


TGUKF

I honestly think if Dorion were on a team with an owner willing to spend and get out of the day to day running of the team, he could actually build a pretty competitive team. I feel like he's generally done a pretty good job getting value out of moving players the entire league knew he had to move (Karlsson, Stone). I think he and his staff have also done a pretty good job with scouting and getting prospects like Batherson and Formenton. I do still think Murray was a mistake, but at least the contract is relatively short I'd much rather have him than Benning based on their track records in their current roles


e_mike_h

>I honestly think if Dorion were on a team with an owner willing to spend After Chabot's, Batherson's, White's, Murray's, and now Tkachuk's contracts, I don't understand how this idea that Melnyk isn't willing to spend is so prevalent


danielpalfredsson

Spending on individual contracts is not the same as spending to the cap. Melnyk himself has said the Senators will spend to the mid point of the cap. Whether that changes, we will see - but there has been no proof he will spend to maintain a contender.


e_mike_h

> Melnyk himself has said the Senators will spend to the mid point of the cap Feel free to prove me wrong, but I call bullshit on this. If anything I recall him saying he's willing to spend near the cap when competitive. And there is precedent of him doing this. Back when Ottawa was truly competitive (2000s), the org spent near the cap.


danielpalfredsson

https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/stepping-back-from-melnyks-thoughts-on-the-past-and-the-future The burden of proof is on people saying Melnyk will spend to the cap since he hasn't done that in a very long time. Signing choice players to big contracts doesn't mean a team is spending to the cap. Every team has big contracts. That doesn't mean it isn't a positive that so far they signed long term Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, and White. Only that signing those players long term to big contracts doesn't mean they are spending money. It just means that in the future a lower number of players might take up a bigger chunk of whatever size pie Melnyk decides will be made available to his general manager for player salaries.


e_mike_h

In your article you linked he said that *"...the team will plan to spend close to the NHL’s salary cap every year from 2021 to 2025"*. So I recalled correctly. The only mention of spending at the middle is when he said that *"Our budgets are always somewhere around $70 million, which is in the centre"*. He's not saying they aren't willing to spend to the cap, but is saying that's where their budget has been in the past. So he's said that they've typically had a budget in the middle, but that they plan on spending near the cap in the early to mid 2020s. >Signing choice players to big contracts doesn't mean a team is spending to the cap I never said that signing big contracts means a team is spending to the cap. My comment was directed at the notion that Ottawa doesn't sign players to big contracts, which has been a point people have made since Karlsson and Stone. People haven't been saying "Ottawa refuses to spend the cap", they say "Ottawa refuses to pay for their star players". Signing Tkachuk and Chabot especially show this isn't the case. If Ottawa doesn't spend near the cap in the next couple years it will be because they let Stutzle and Norris and probably even Pinto walk/trade and I think that's unlikely.


danielpalfredsson

That is the original press release that coincided with their rebuild. We are already at the 2022 season (two years into that time frame), and the team has spent somewhere in the 55-65 million range in real dollars pending performance bonuses. The context is that the 70 million statement is a walk back from the previous press release. It is extremely fair to say this team is a budget team until proven otherwise.


Arching-Overhead

Isn't the point more that when it's time to pay there's a recent pattern of doing so? We're talking about the future, there's no money to be paid out right now and Norris, Sanderson, Stu, and whoever emerges from our other prospects, a goalie; all these players will need to be paid in time. Tl;dr, spending to the cap right now or next year is pointless and detrimental to the club and spending what's needed right now where it counts is more important anyway.


MooseFlyer

Because he still hasn't spent anywhere near the cap (recently) Melnyk may be prepared to spend lots, but he hasn't actually proven it yet.


Arching-Overhead

Where are you looking for him to spend money right now? The plan has been simple: identify a core group (Tk, Norris, Bath, Batcho, Ü, Pinto, likely Sanderson), a supporting cast in a similar age group (C. Brown, Zub, Formenton, Watson, etc.), experiment with a rotating door of veteran talent, and evaluate. There's some important contracts to hand out in the next 3 years, a goaltending position to solidify, and some complimentary pieces when it makes sense. What's more important is that there is a recent pattern of spending whenever there was expectation to: Chabot, Batherson, White, Murray, Tkachuk.


TGUKF

I mean look at the rest of the team. It's all scraps, but tbf the team would arguably be worse off had Melnyk shelled out for Karlsson and Stone. Because they're 25% of the cap now, and only Stone is still good


e_mike_h

In what world is the rest of the team all scraps? Most are either on their rookie contracts or are decent vets. The only scraps are guys like Tierney, Sanford, Watson, and Ennis with the latter half still being impactful. I would have loved to keep stone, but we offered him something very similar to what he took in Vegas and the feeling was he wanted to play for a competitive team and not a rebuilding one. Although these are all just rumors so who knows


capswildcats

Well he refuses to give signing bonuses which was a point of contention in the Brady deal


e_mike_h

All we have are rumors. We don't know what the points of contention were. Not to mention most of the league doesn't give out huge signing bonus's, so that being a focus on Ottawa wouldn't be fair.


capswildcats

https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1448676383824175105?s=21 Frank is pretty reliable. Plus there’s no way Brady didn’t want signing bonuses. It’s just objectively better for the player especially an American one who can use that to be taxed in the US(see Matthews). Money up front is always advantageous. I wouldn’t say most teams don’t give signing bonuses. Not every team gives them out like candy you’re right about that. But I’m looking through capfriendly and I don’t see many other teams that haven’t signed any(non-elc) contracts with a signing bonus. The Jets are one with 0 since they traded for Dillon and didn’t sign him just like the Sens didn’t sign Zaitsev. I looked through 10-15 teams and they’re the only one I found. I don’t have time to look through every team but it’s certainly not normal to refuse to give signing bonuses. If the Hurricanes and Panthers can do it so can the Sens. Even Lou gave in and gave one to Pulock.


SamTheRam28

Only Blues player getting signing bonuses is O'Reilly and he signed his contract with Buffalo. I think they were willing to give Petro bonuses but obviously that didn't happen.


e_mike_h

>Frank is pretty reliable. Plus there’s no way Brady didn’t want signing bonuses. That's fair that's fair. >I wouldn’t say most teams don’t give signing bonuses. I didn't say this. I said "huge signing bonuses". Which is true. Most aren't pulling a Leaf's, giving 80% of the players contract in July every year.


capswildcats

Well sure. But the Sens refuse to give any at all which was my original point. That does mean something. I don’t expect every team to to have the financial power of the original 6 teams. Again even Florida and Carolina dropped a bag for Barkov and Aho. I know mentioning spittin chiclets can be contentious on here but this summer they had Mike McKenna on and he talked about being in the Sens organization. He made it clear the amenities the players get are not up to NHL standards and flat out called them cheap. Now he was on there during the real dark years(the uber incident season to be exact). So maybe it’s changed. But I don’t think Melnyk doing the bare minimum of his ownership duties is reason to say he’s not cheap from everything we know.


Downvote_Comforter

> I don't understand how this idea that Melnyk isn't willing to spend is so prevalent Because with all of those signings, the payroll of the team will be bottom 5 in the league this year. Just as it has been for the last 3 seasons. Capfriendly has cap archives going back 7 years (including this season). The highest the Sens have been for any season was 15th. In the other 6 seasons they were never outside the bottom 10. There was a several year period where Ottawa targeted players in trades who were owed less real dollars than their cap hit. I won't be surprised if he is willing to spend money in the future if the team hits the potential that many think they will. But the reputation is well earned given the last 5 years.


KashaWells

The Sens have been going in such a positive direction of late that I had nearly forgotten about Melnyk. I hope he continues to let Dorion do his thing without sticking his nose in it too much. You're right though, it would be interesting to see what Dorion could accomplish with an owner willing to spend money and leave him to it.


TGUKF

I do think another strong move from Dorion was getting DJ Smith from y'all. While their record still isn't great (goaltending hasn't helped), I think the team is much more competitive on the ice than on paper. Whereas there are some teams whose coaching staffs have them performing worse on the ice than on paper (aka us)


TheShuggieOtis

> I honestly think if Dorion were on a team with an owner willing to spend and get out of the day to day running of the team, he could actually build a pretty competitive team. Obviously there is some Sens homerism to what I am about to say, but I do genuinely agree. When people on r/hockey or /r/OttawaSenators are evaluating Dorion's success and how he would probably be more effective with a less stingy owner as his boss, I think it's important to take into consideration that he also lacks as much front office support as other GMs. I think PD would love to share some of the pro scouting decisions with a capable AGM or President of Hockey Operations but it seems like Melnyk doesn't want to shell out the money there either. I'm hoping that the McGuire hiring helps PD out here because the Sens sorely need better pro scouting.


JasperSlavone

This this this, a million times this. Great write up


Downvote_Comforter

> The AAV did not increase much from his original offer. I agree with your premise and I think that Dorion deserves a lot of credit for this contract even though it is an overpay vs. on-ice value. However, I do think we need to acknowledge that the above sentence is true only because the original offer had quite a bit of "look at all this extra money to convince you to go long term" baked into it. If the original offer is an overpay, only having to go a little bit beyond that isn't surprising or praiseworthy. Again, I agree that this is a good moment for Dorion, but there needs to be acknowledgment that starting at 8x8 made it so that there was never going to be much movement upward on the AAV. I think it was a good strategic move, but this contract should be judged on AAV vs Brady's actual value rather than AAV vs Dorion's initial offer.


PaperMoonShine

I'm sure they don't want any more scandals revolving leadership players anymore. Getting the longterm contract seemed like a must. Can't name him captain and have him demand out in 3 years.


homicidal_penguin

You mean reports from the media were wrong? Well I never


UsedToBeBradfordTwo

“No player wants to stay in Ottawa because Old Man Melnyk is a cheapskate who won’t pay his players!” That narrative has shifted.


McNasty1Point0

Chabot, Batherson and Tkachuk. Definitely hard to go with that narrative now!


BrokenBy

“Find a new slant” -sensfan2613904431


Packin25

It wasn't even the media, the only people saying he wants out of Ottawa were dummy posters on this sub.


LoneIyGuy

I was worried my Tkachuk jersey would collect dust


dudeer33

Lol same here. I was hoping he would sign today so I can wear his jersey tonight without feeling guilty!


onemanarmia

“We heard you like numbers, Brady, and frankly i’m not sure why we’re doing this but we want to interest you in letters as well.”


Amphibious_Fire

Captain Braeden, it even rhymes!


excessive_coughing

Brady's Bunch


dinner_with_Aquilini

"Insider" that doesn't know anything but wants re-tweets starter pack: "Good chance that..." "Expect to see.." "My senses are telling me..." "I've been hearing..." "There's talk around the league that..."


MeanderAndReturn

ah, modern sports "reporting". god I hate the 24 hour news cycle


imadethisforonething

Modern journalism is broken in general, news companies get all their reporters to post things for free on social media in a weird attempt to drive engagement rather than actually producing content that people might pay for (mind you, given how much modern consumers hate paywalled articles or ads on websites that route isn't exactly promising either)


MeanderAndReturn

agreed, it also seems to be the old First! principle. Nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with being the first to break a story. after all, they can always go back and correct it later (ugh...)


longlimppenis

"The current narrative is"


A_Rogue_A

My spider sense is tingling about...


BadassDeluxe

More like the captain of getting good contracts am I right?


Enki_007

The captain of door-slamming!


i_am_thinking247

Tkaptain Tkachuk


MooreGold

Honest question for Sens fans. Does Brady deserve to be Captain? Contract hold out notwithstanding, is he that type of leader on the team? From the outside looking in, I'd have thought Chabot would be next up


limebaloney

I genuinely don't think he had anything to do with the negotiation. I know he could have forced a deal through but he's young and he probably trusts his dad and agent to have his best interest in mind. If Pierre thinks he's fit then I'm cool with it. This is a GM that blew up an entire team at least in part for culture reasons so you know he's sensitive to that sort of thing.


e_mike_h

Brady has every right to negotiate a contract that favours himself. I don't fault him for doing this or think he isn't a good leader because of it. It's been a little frustrating, but he's just got this energy and involvement that Chabot doesn't. They're both good choices, but from an on ice perspective, I'd pick Brady. I'll also add that we really don't know what the negotiations entailed. I think we as fans often put blame on the player, since it's easier and they're an individual. But the org is often just as guilty when it comes to stalled negotiations.


pxik

Being a captain has a lot more to do with off-ice than on-ice duties. You have got to be able to manage and take care of each guy in the room. You need leadership skills and be the voice of reason. Players have to be able to look at Brady and trust him. On-ice also matters, you want the captain to be a good player who can inspire people from his energy and on-ice play. But off-ice is wayyyy more important.


e_mike_h

The captaincy exists to serve as an on-ice rep of the team to the officials. They absolutely have off ice leadership duties, but I wouldn't say that's more important. It's probably 50/50. The reason I brought up on-ice was because that's all we see. We can't see what goes on behind the scenes, so there's no way of evaluating who would be the better pick.


pxik

You must have mic’d up or behind the scenes clips, they can tell you a lot about the feeling in the locker room. And the way people conduct themselves in interviews also give out a lot of information. And even by on-ice play you can learn a lot. Like by seeing which player is the most vocal on the bench, who is leading from the front with his play and rallying the team from deficits. And most importantly, who the former leaders of the locker room vouch for. For example, everybody and their dog knew Bo Horvat would be our captain. The Sedins spoke extremely highly of him. Bo was always the hardest worker in the room. And would go above and beyond to make others feel comfortable. He would always make speeches to pump up the boys before periods and would lead from the front with his on-ice play. Every player who came to Vancouver spoke very highly of Bo’s character. He was 22-23 but he still earned the respect of players decades older than him. Some people just have this aura about them, they walk into a room and everybody stops and listens


Arching-Overhead

All I could think when details were announced was "all this wait, for *this?* This was exactly the contract we were expecting. That's proof we have no idea what was actually going on imo.


TheThoroughCrocodile

Not a Sens fan but I really like what I see from him in terms of the C. I remember that one time someone hit Stone (I think?) and he jumped in for the scrap right away. Some people here will say that's too old school, or that your stars shouldn't be doing that, but I like how he wears his heart on his sleeve. Would love to have him on the Leafs.


MeanderAndReturn

he drags every player into the fight, so to speak. which to me is the exact thing you want in a captain. like captain america! (sorry been watching MCU hardcore lately)


epicdude900

All you need to do is see the video of Tkachuk entering the locker room after being signed, the boys all love him and went to hug him. He's the captain.


LiveIndividual

No.


mdlt97

that is what got him down to 8.2m ^^/s


flepine44

And tomorrow they're naming him the GM !


homicidal_penguin

No shit. But I'm happy about it


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Yeah this is a total nothing burger


LiveIndividual

Fuck that shit. A massive overpayment for a guy who brings nothing but negatives. Chabot is clearly the one and only right choice for captain.


BigShoots

If Chabot was going to be captain they would have given it to him long ago. The fact that there was a leadership vacuum on the team and that Brady stepped up to fill it tells you everything you need to know. Anyone watching the team last season knows that Brady is their obvious leader.


turrisattack

That’s a littttttttle harsh lol


NHL18Sucks

This guy is a moron.


Amphibious_Fire

What?!? So you don’t agree that Brady is a burden to the team? That his value is actually negative and he should play for free and be happy that he can be here? Then fuck you bud!!! ^/s


LiveIndividual

What does he bring to the team? And if you truly think he's a positive to Senators is he worth that contract?


gooomonk

What contract would you have wanted Brady to sign in an ideal world?


AustonStachewsWrist

There's no denying it's an overpay, even if you disagree with OP


gooomonk

Exactly, I'm just wondering what he would've signed him to if Brady does nothing?


AustonStachewsWrist

I guess my response would just be "less" if I were him, but he seems to legitimately hate Brady for some reason I don't understand.


LiveIndividual

Because he is a bad player that brings nothing but negatives. Bad penalties and poorly timed fights. He is terrible defensively.


LiveIndividual

In an ideal world they never would have drafted him in to begin with.


gooomonk

Why? Who would you have drafted instead of Tkachuk? I just like to see armchair GM's with no substantial discussion other than "fuck that shit" lol.


LiveIndividual

Hughes, Dobson, or Thomas all would have made excellent picks.


gooomonk

Nice, fair enough. You'd make an excellent hindsight GM! Start applying for GM jobs!


dkmegg22

Umm midway through his contract it becomes better cause the cap increases and soon his contract is a similar proportion to say a 6 mil player.


workwag

Eh, I loved Brady until a few weeks ago. Sorry, but holding out to ensure you get over 8mil instead of a reasonable power forward salary more akin to Chabot's is just greedy and not very captain like to me. All it does is ensure Stutzle or someone like him wants 10mil and then your 4th liners will be nickle and dime'd. Wish I knew what he had been getting offered vs the signed amount ​ Guess Im just getting old.


Robjn

Everyone wishes they could negotiate their contracts to potentially make hundreds of thousands of dollars more. Also your NHL career can be cut short any day, I don't blame any player for wanting to get the best possible deal they can for them. We dont know what goes on in those dicussions, but I do know hes going to play his heart out and bleed for us just the same if he signed 3 months ago


MeanderAndReturn

do you remember Alfredsson holding out? i guess not.


workwag

Before, during or after the cap was implemented? Seems to me holding out for the last couple % is a direct affront to others on your team (as long as teams are spending to it as their upper limit, of course). I dont ever recall Alfie signing a deal and the vast majority thinking it was high for him.


LiveIndividual

When did he hold out?


BigShoots

Good chance? It's an absolute certainty now.


aaaaaliyah

Because it worked out so well with Eichel.