T O P

The top surgery double standard needs to stop.

The top surgery double standard needs to stop.

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noob_trees

I think most dudes are just angry and insecure, maybe dysphoric. They lash out at phalloplasties bc they want they science to advance. They take their frustration out on people who have them done, because they overcompensate for not wanting to get it, or being too scared to. So, they have to bully people with less than perfect results. Idk, who really knows. It does suck though.


[deleted]

Yeah it’s pretty hypocritical that the people that say that all top surgeries look amazing will turn around and talk shit about phallo. To be fair though, I think a lot of the shit talking about phallo comes from a place of jealousy. For a lot of people, bottom surgery isnt attainable because of the financial cost, and to make themselves feel better about not being able to get it (or not being able to have cis penises), they lash out at phallo dicks to makes themselves feel better. Top surgery on the other hand is far more attainable, so I think less people are likely to attack it out of jealousy That’s just my theory though


[deleted]

Maybe it's also out of insecurity, a lot of trans guys seem to have less bottom dysphoria compared to trans women (which makes sense, hormones do a lot for us and because of that, our pre op genitals don't always look quite as incongruent as a trans woman might view hers as). Maybe some people with less/no bottom dysphoria feel invalidated by that so say they don't want bottom surgery because it looks shit etc That's just my theory as well


acthrowawayab

>If I’m being completely honest I’ve seen more botched top surgery results than phallo. This is obviously going to be the case. There are vastly more top surgeries being done, people are much more inclined to share their chest with the world than their genitalia and it's also offered by lots of random plastic surgeons who often have little to no experience. Genital surgery is done only by a very small, dedicated handful. As for the topic, my conclusion is the exact opposite. Genital surgery talk is rife with forced positivity. If you went by what trans subs allow people to say about phalloplasty, it'd be a 100% cis-passing, fully functional, low complication miracle surgery. Meta would be indistinguishable from a cis micropenis, standing to pee and ejaculating fluid would be practically guaranteed and ability to penetrate common. That's optimism taken so far it becomes harmful by creating false expectations. There is significantly more real talk regarding the downsides and risks of top surgery (to the point they are overstated, see everyone being terrified their nipples will fall off) and everyone is very forward about wanting to avoid DI at all costs. The implication of that is clear, yet you never really see anyone take this as an attack on their own, DI-created chest. Meanwhile with phalloplasty any opinion that isn't celebrating the technique/typical is inevitably framed as insulting someone's dick (less so with meta because almost no one talks about it). If we want people to be able to make informed decisions we need *less* of the latter no matter the procedure, not more, and respect needs to go both ways. We shouldn't express our reasons for deciding against a certain surgery in crude ways and accept that someone personally sharing their result isn't the right occasion to start that conversation. But we should also take a step back and decenter ourselves when people talk about why they don't think certain surgeries are right for them and why, not silence them through accusations of being ignorant, malicious or "jealous".


KingVersacetrash

I’ve never seen forced positivity in regards to phallo. There’s plenty of toxic positivity when it comes to top surgery. I’m all for discussing the downsides of surgery because it’s reality of surgery but not when you’re spreading misinformation and like you said crude comments. Calling phallo a dildo with skin is unnecessary just like I wouldn’t be ok with someone calling top surgery mutilation.


CultureTroll

There's a dude in this thread trying to force someone to be positive about phallo right now, so I guess there's a first time for everything


[deleted]

I'm literally not but okay. I'm speaking out against someone spreading a false idea about phallo, not telling him that he has to like or want the procedure.


CultureTroll

If he says it doesn't work for him it doesn't work. You don't know what he wants more than he does. Someone not happy with phallo isn't "spreading false information"


[deleted]

I'm not speaking about what he wants personally, clearly phallo isn't what he wants and that's fine, that was never part of the conversation. He didn't just say phallo doesn't work for him, he said phallo doesn't work at all. That's my issue. I think you've completely misunderstood this whole thing.


SouthernYoghurt9

I've also noticed that the community assumes top surgery almost always comes out perfect. The risk of losing nipples or having scar complications is surprisingly high. Even if the surgery isn't "botched", it's very common to have scar puckering or asymmetrical nipples. Trans men need to be aware that ftm top surgery isn't as "safe" as a boob job. They need to be mentally prepared for the risks, and reality that they will likely not have a fully cis passing chest (if they didn't have very small breasts going into surgery). Seems to me there is very little accurate information out there for all types of FTM surgery. For phallo, people seem to think it's either perfect or puts a boiled sausage down there. There's no room for a balanced discussion


[deleted]

...Aren't you the guy that said phallo penises "don't work"? I agree with what you said here, but practice what you preach.


SouthernYoghurt9

Exhibit A: Someone who thinks phallos can do all the physical functions of a cis penis and gets triggered when someone points out they can't


[deleted]

Incorrect: in our last conversation I specifically said that of course there are differences between cis and phallo penises and that phallo penises work differently. You are the one that said phallo penises "don't work", which is wrong and what I was actually disputing. So don't bother trying to put words in my mouth because we both know that's not what I said. After that conversation it's ironic that now you're now preaching the opposite?


CultureTroll

Dude get a life. If he wants a cis penis, and a phallo doesn't work the same as a cis penis, then it doesn't work for him. Other people are allowed to complain about phallo without you crawling up their ass about it...


[deleted]

I don't mind if he wants phallo or not. I've never had a problem with people talking about the advantages/disadvantages of phallo and the differences between phallo and cis penises. There's a difference between complaining about it and falsely stating that it doesn't work. I don't think you know the context of this past conversation that I had with him.


CultureTroll

If you're going to bring an argument to a different thread, you should probably provide some context since a lot of other people will be reading it. With just what's here in the thread, it seems like you do have a problem with other people's opinions on phalloplasty


[deleted]

I did...I mentioned that he previously said phallo penises don't work, so the fact that he spoke out against bashing phallo is ironic. You can look through either of our profiles and find the old conversation if you like. I have an issue with how this guy in particular talks about phalloplasty. You're drawing conclusions about my opinion on an entire subject based on an interaction I'm having with one person.


SouthernYoghurt9

Nope. Still here saying the same thing, there is a middle ground on phallo discussion, and still getting triggered boys upset at me for daring to have the opinion that phallos aren't perfect


[deleted]

I've already said, I'm disputing the fact you said that they don't work. I agree that they don't function exactly the same as cis penises.


SouthernYoghurt9

Then wtf are you even complaining about? Why would I not want a penis that works the same way as a cis penis? If a phallo doesn't do the things that a cis penis does, it doesn't work


[deleted]

I'm "complaining" about your phrasing of just saying "it doesn't work". It doesn't function exactly the same as a cis penis, but phallo penises can get erect, provide sensation and pass urine. That's pretty much the main things you need a penis to do, so if all goes well they're functional. The reason what you're saying annoys me is because it plays into the whole bashing phallo thing. You can talk about the differences without writing off phallo penises as penises that don't work. If phalloplasty isn't suitable for you, that's totally fine and understandable. But it can work perfectly well for other people.


SouthernYoghurt9

So ejaculating isn't a basic function of a penis now? Lol Talk about misinformation. Phallos don't have erectile tissue dude. *Some* phallos have a erectile dysfunction pump installed. Inflating a balloon is not the same thing as engorged erectile tissue ffs... if you had ever actually touched one in real life you would know this, and as we've been over in the previous conversation, you haven't. Look, you clearly either don't know very much about how penises or phallos work or you are in heavy denial about it. Idgaf about what your issues are because that's your business. It becomes my business when you start trying to cyberstalk me over it. If you can't stop harassing me, I'm reporting you bro. This is literally the 3rd time you've done this. Just stop


[deleted]

Yeah ejaculating is also a function, some trans men can produce a form of ejaculate from the skene glands but of course we can't produce sperm, so that's a major difference between cis and phallo penises. But the rest of the functions are similar/the same. Yeah....I never said that phallo penises have erectile tissue, of course they don't. They're a skin graft. But erections can be achieved with an erectile device; different to a cis penis but achieves the same outcome. Dude.....I dated a cis man for 2 years, I have most definitely touched a penis lmao. I've said nothing inaccurate or unreasonable so I'm not really sure what you're talking about? You keep putting words in my mouth and trying to tell me what I think. Mate, you regularly comment on this subreddit so naturally I see your comments when I look on here, that's hardly cyber stalking. This is a public subreddit, I have every right to comment on your public comments if I want to. If you don't want me to see your comments, you can block me if you like. This is also the first time you've expressed not wanting to talk about this anymore, beforehand you just hurled insults at me and put words in my mouth. If you want me to drop the subject then sure.


KingVersacetrash

Asymmetrical nipples is a botched surgery. Plenty of people have them but it’s avoidable with the right surgeon. When I first came to the trans community I’ve seen a lot of guys with bad results and nipples all over the place and even from so called surgeons who’ve “trained” to do this.


CultureTroll

If someone shows me their botched sugery, I will always lie and be overly positive about it to try to make them feel like it's not that terrible. On the other hand, if they are complaining about it, I'm not going to jump up their ass and tell them it's great and they have to love it.


KingVersacetrash

I’m not gonna lie but I get what you’re saying. I’m not gonna shit on them if they’re satisfied with their results but if it’s bad I’m not gonna tell them it’s good. Same with phallo.


Bosskenzington

Most trans men are not transsexual. And while I understand the issues that surround phalloplasty I see men actively try to discourage other guys from getting it and telling them to be ok with their body. My ex even lied to me about wanting phalloplasty then admitted he never had plans to get it and that I should love him the way he is. Obviously I did but I didn’t see him the same way as he knows sex is important to me and I planned on getting surgery myself. Second to that he lied in my face about wanting it and then said he never actually wanted it and that I NEED to accept him. That’s when I decided I could only date a transsexual guy. The thing with top surgery is because a lot of afab non binary people get it too, top surgery is pretty androgynous. You can have a sexy chest and pussy under or a small penis and that completes the androgynous fantasy for most


[deleted]

>Most trans men are not transsexual ...Source? What is that even supposed to mean >You can have a sexy chest and pussy under or a small penis and that completes the androgynous fantasy for most Ew wtf? Why are you describing trans men like that? That's fucking weird


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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Bosskenzington

The fact that most trans men don’t op for phalloplasty is enough fact that most are not true transsexuals And I wasn’t describing them like that because I’m interested. Get over yourself. I was making a point. Alot of afabs and certain trans “men” are fine with the ideal of being physically androgynous. There’s a reason you don’t see trenders or hyper feminine trans men wanting dicks.


[deleted]

I'm sorry but do you understand how complicated, risky and expensive phalloplasty can be? And I'm saying this as someone who is opting for phalloplasty myself. Plus, medically speaking you don't need bottom surgery to fit the definition of a transsexual. So you're just making up your own definition, that's not very factual. You can't judge someone for not getting phallo when that's not even something that's in the cards for yourself; phalloplasty is several surgeries, not just one. You need to take a lot of time off work for it which a lot of people can't afford to do, there is a very high risk of complications as well. YOU go out there and get 4 risky surgeries, then come back and judge trans men. >most are not true transsexuals What is that even supposed to mean and why do you care? Mind your own business, what trans men do doesn't affect you. >Alot of afabs and certain trans “men” are fine with the ideal of being physically androgynous. Okay, so? Again, I don't see how this has anything to do with you. It just seems like you have a problem with trans men to me.