T O P

I am upset at trans women for how the community's reputation has been ruined (rant/vent)

I am upset at trans women for how the community's reputation has been ruined (rant/vent)

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amazonas122

Mabye the reason this argument is getting shot down is because you're cherry picking examples from a couple people in one community while ignoring examples from members of other communities you claim aren't doing anything wrong ever. It's not that you can never have an opinion. It's that this particular opinion is poorly thought out and poorly researched.


Screwyourgod

This is a trash beat up of transwomen. I've met violent and sexual demented transmen and women and nb people. We are diverse communities and like wider society will always have a small percentage of trouble members.


Rioreia

Cis women rape people, they just usually get away with it or get laughed out of court or get a light sentence. Doubly so if they're attractive. How many cis women teachers are out there that got a slap on the wrist after raping a student?


[deleted]

Yeah, bad people can definitely be trans.


gophercuresself

Remind me, what do we call people who judge entire demographics of people because of the actions of select individuals from that group? Oh yeah! Bigots. We call them bigots.


zoish_ori

Quite frankly, if a trans woman uses her access to women's spaces to hurt women, she should not be allowed to access women's spaces anymore. It's not just trans women, though, to be clear. It's just that it's trans women that get reported on. Sexual assault and proposition are not uncommon in women's prisons, and lesbians have a high rate of domestic abuse, but it didn't really get talked about.


UnfortunateEntity

Chris Chan is a terrible example. Chris Chan is not trans, they clearly hate women. Or at least see them as a means of having sex and nothing more. Every interaction Chris has had with a woman has been about trying to accomplish Chris's own personal gain, even extending that as far as to their mother. I don't see how anyone that is trans-female could view women as less than people, it does not add up. And as has been said time and time again, Chris only transitioned to widen their dating pool. And it makes me wonder how they were given access to HRT in the first place.


NeatRepeat

Disagree trans women are just suuper scrutinised because this fits the narrative used to advocate for trans genocide. Also reminder that the alleged wi spa lady's name/variations on her deadname can't be found in the california sex offender database and the reporter Andy Ngo is a known right wing misinformation spreader Trans men and trans masculine predators do exist Onisions (ex?) Husband Kai is a known trans man predator, as is Trisha Paytas (sexually harassing and assaulting at least one minor) , and depending on who you ask and what you 'count' so is Buck Angel (re the buck Angel the accusation I've seen online is him showing porn on a projector during an all ages event with minors present ) I would guess that convicted transmasc predators who are able to would take advantage of transmasc invisibility and pretend they're women as women sexual predators aren't seen as being as "dangerous" by authorities and sexual predation is wrongly seen as "penis crime" rather than something that is done by people of all genders which is traumatic regardless of whether a penis is involved or not. Before making big alarmist claims about "the trans community producing and supporting predators" or whatever badly disguised "just asking questions" terf talking point op is on I'd need to see some actual statistics on correctly convicted (eg those convicted of actual sex crimes not just arrested for pissing or swimming while trans ) trans predators and who their victims tend to be (I'd guess its largely other trans people as that's been my experience as a survivor of other trans people who were abusive and predatory ). Idk I think a lot of people loudly talking about these "concerns" don't actually give a fuck about safety or listening to survivors or stopping rape - they'd probably prefer to hear more horrific stories because they just want ammo to push the myth that trans feminine identity itself is a sexual assault to justify their own violence against trans people. I think like any other community there's a rape culture problem but this doesn't specifically come from trans women and trans feminine people


al3xisc00k

There's plenty of cis women who are rapists? I'm not saying that I agree with their actions or people covering up for them but this isn't a transfem community issue this is a some people are fucked up issue. It does not matter if those people are transgender or not, people should be focusing on the crime not the fact they're trans- trans people can still be bad people it doesn't mean that they're bad people because they are trans. The actions of rapists and rape apologists are not in any way my responsibility or this communities responsibility.


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hailhell

90+% of *reported rape


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hailhell

The current definition of rape is horribly biased against men who, when raped by a woman, are being forced to penetrate. There are several people speaking out of this and though penetration may be the technical definition of rape, in the spirit of fairness, non-consensual piv sex for men should be considered rape as well.


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hailhell

No, I don't deny the fact that females are disproportionately affected by sexual crimes. What I'm saying is that if we're really going for equality, then men who experience unwanted sexual intercourse should be treated exactly like a woman who experiences unwanted sexual intercourse.


rhapsodyofmelody

I'm upset at the trans people pushing this nonsense TERF narrative. Just fuck off.


deadloop_

CC is not a typical example of anything. I cannot understand why everybody in such forums seems to talk about them all the time and treat their case as if it matters in something. It looks more like a gossip to me than anything that has any substantial content to discuss.


Leninthrowaway

Trans men literally commit more sexual assault than trans women what are you on about


pk-600-c

What


ABitTooFlippant

Source?


Kingversacegarbage

So bad trans people somehow represents the rest? This kind of mentality is what people used to justify racism, sexism etc. trans women aren’t responsible for what a few shitty people have done nor is the community. C’mon now


obedinterrupt

Exactly. Why should my rights be affected by criminals who happen to share one trait with me. I am not a tolerated guest in women's spaces, I am a woman and have the same right to be their as any other woman.


Drelostams

I agree for the most part but I’m all for denying Chris Chan’s transness, pointing out his lack of gender dysphoria and medical transition to distance him from our community is a good idea. I’m suspicious of any trans woman who has zero genital dysphoria and no understanding of how to behave in women’s spaces. I wish I knew how to fix this, it sucked having to acknowledge people like Chris Chan or the Wi Spa flasher exist. I generally tell my cis friends that these people aren’t really trans and are outliers but I’m not so sure I’m right.


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NeatRepeat

yuck and yikes... 'Interesting'* that this isn't suggested as a way of dealing with cis predators but it's a convenient excuse for terfs to carry out their "final solution to the trans problem" fuck right off with that shit and oust the many pedophiles abusers and rapists from your anti trans witch hunt fetish clubs and then fuck off again and actually care about survivors and stopping sexual violence rather than using it as an excuse for the genocide you want to do against trans women. *predictable as fuck in the transmisogyny and disregard for survivors and reality


rhapsodyofmelody

we need a complete shutdown on lazy transphobia in communities for transpeople. get lost


Cuddle_Me_Plz

What do you mean by shutdown?


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Go4Brony

🚨Mods - we have a TERF!!! Enjoy your ban bigot!


deadloop_

Yeah because some other people have done something bad, unrelated people should quit their medical treatment, that makes perfect sense as an argument 🙄


pk-600-c

Wew terf alert


laharahreborn

Yeah Chris-chan aint trans, Jessica Yaniv aint trans none of these people are trans they wanted a distraction tactic to be predators. bring back gatekeeping or as i like to call it having a community not a hugbox


Meowww3

Pretty he was literally told by trolls online to transition so he could get lesbians to sleep with him…


Reddit_124

Cis women do fucked up shit all the time https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9957819/Married-California-teacher-39-arrested-raping-boy-14-three-times.html


AntifaStoleMyPenis

>Cis women aren't doing this shit. Trans men and NBs aren't doing this shit. Sure you are. It's just that society doesn't care in the latter case, and [South Park already explained the problem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffap-9awgfE0) in the former case.


deepbarrow

Isn’t it kind of just actually true that transphobes scrabble for every possible scrap of “evidence” that trans women are evil? They purposely hyper-focus on trans women’s behaviour. Look at all the news reports that needlessly mention a non-white criminal’s race, status as immigrant/indigenous/ Muslim, etc.. For every one case of ill conduct we see, we’re not seeing a million more of trans women just being normal people living their lives. The purpose is propaganda, spinning the news so it looks like trans women are perverted predators. When they are in fact at much higher risk than cis people to suffer crime themselves.


Maia999

It's like saying "all men are rapists". Have you heard that before? I'm sure you have. Are all men rapists? No. The same thing goes for trans women. It's just nonsense. First of all, Chris chan literally admitted that he transitioned only in order to get laid as a lesbian. He is not trans. Second of all, sure, the media loves to hate on NBs, but they are obsessed with hating transwomen. A lot of transphobes don't even know trans men are a thing lmao, they just think it's freak men who wear dresses. These people aren't normal people. As you said, cis women, NBs, and trans men don't do that shit. Normal trans women and men don't do that either. I assure you there have been similar cases with cis women being the oppressor. And yeah of course it's transmisogynist when you claim that. It literally is. You said that trans women are a community of predators and they ruin the reputation of the whole community, and that everyone else are better than them. It's a shitty claim regardless, and it's really hateful.


dmolin96

This post is the equivalent of "calling out" people from Wisconsin because Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer, the Slenderman girls, and Kyle Rittenhouse are from Wisconsin. "It's clear that Wisconsin has a problem with psychopaths, we can see a trend . . ."


Hot_Cheek_6151

It’s been story after story about how some person from Wisconsin commits assault or rape in some new and imaginative way, and all I hear is gaslighting the victims. Minnesotans aren’t doing this shit, Ohioans and Indianans aren’t doing this shit, but you’re a Wisconsophobe for pointing it out. This isn’t just a few bad apples problems, this is a community problem, because the state is making excuses and covering for them. And I’m not sorry about being pissed about it


SouthernYoghurt9

You can't blaim trans women for .001% of them being sexual criminals, but I think we can blame the community for its reaction to this. "If you criticize a trans woman you're a trans misogynist also these aren't actually trans women" is not a response. You flash your genitals, you get banned. That's the correct response. Just wear shorts if you are pre-op. There are a teeny number of actual criminals, but a lot more trans women who want the "right" to show their pickle in the spa. Guess what honey? Sexually harassing people is not a "right". We should all work together to make trans AND cis women comfortable in their spaces. It's a give and take from both sides. It IS misogyny to try and steamroll over cis women and not let them have any concessions at all. It reminds me a lot of what trans men face in male spaces. Literally 0 consideration. If you're pre-op, have fun sitting on a toilet seat covered in a stranger's cold piss. You cannot even go into a male spa because no one covers their bottom. If you tried to, cis men would demand you take it off or try to pull them off of you. Especially if you are wearing a shirt to cover scars. Comparatively, a lot of spaces treat trans women really well. The Wi spa allowed women to show their pickle as long as they weren't weird about it, and apparently the cis women kept their complaints to themselves untill now. I'm sure they weren't totally comfortable, but women just tend to be politer about that sort of thing


MimusCabaret

I'd generally thought many trans women were complaining because of having to tuck or something in the locker room. That I understood, having had a similar issue in high school regarding size differences myself. But that there seems to be plenty of trans women who, well, *don't want* to be covered is weird to me. Particularly since (at least when I used to have to use women's locker rooms) nudity was rare, particularly ith the bottom half and said women faced the wall when that nudity was involved cuz when facing the wall no one can see your junk. The two gendered changing rooms / spas / what have you tend to have slightly different ettiquette and I ain't sure a lot of people are grasping that. And yeah, there's 0 concessions from cis men for trans men which is *also* why I ain't allowed in the spas and naked-men's rooms here - at least not according to the phone conversations I've had with the businesses, even tho my junk has 'passed at a glance' before. That it seems like some trans people are no longer arguing for access but instead are arguing for flaunting (which isn't the same thing as access, for fuck's sake) blows the mind. Now, *personally* I think all changing rooms should be gender neutral (and people of all genders I think will jerk around to face the wall so damned fast to hide their nudity from the sex they're uncomfy with that they're gonna get whiplash so flashing should, I'd hope, be less of a problem) but we sure as shit ain't there yet.


SouthernYoghurt9

I'd love it if we could get to the stage where nudity isn't automatically sexual, but like you said we just aren't there yet


PreciouslyPrecise

>cis men would demand you take it off or try to pull them off of you. What? What. . . kind of locker rooms are you going in?


obedinterrupt

Why is the comfort of cis women the highest priority. What about the comfort of trans women? Why should I compromise my safety and well-being for some Karen? If a cis women is not comfortable around me as a trans woman simply because I exists, then it's not my problem. I will go to the sauna/spa on Wednesday. I simply go there to relax and do nothing that other women there are not doing too. If some creepy cis women stares at my genitals then she is the person who makes women in that space uncomfortable.


SouthernYoghurt9

This is exactly what I'm talking about. *Both* of your comforts should be considered. You should be allowed to comfortably enjoy the spa, but so should other women. Declaring "you have to see my dick in the woman's section and just deal with it" could be used by any flasher. Dicks are not expected in the women's section any more than they are at walmart or wendy's. Flashing people non-consentually is sexuall harrassment. As long as you are contentious, like turning to face a wall when you change (which is what most women do anyway) I think it's fine, but refusing to be respectful of the other women around just reeks of male privilege tbh. That's their space too. You don't own the women's room all by yourself. The Karens probably greatly outnumber you, and as long as they aren't bothering you, you should try not to bother them.


obedinterrupt

I am respectful but if someone has problems with just my existence it's their problem. The same argument you bring up could be used for racial segregation. There was a point in history where a white woman would not expect a black woman in the changing room. I have just the same right to be their period. This has nothing to do with male privilege, but just healthy self-confidence. Mentioning male privilege to a trans woman just because she does not live up to some transphobes standards and is not a cis bootlicker reeks of terfism tbh.


PreciouslyPrecise

I pretty much agree with you. And when I use locker rooms I always change in the stall. My only worry about this approach is what will stop a cis woman from claiming I had my penis out just bc she doesn’t like trans women or because she *thinks* she know why a trans woman is in a locker room?


SouthernYoghurt9

This is a real concern. There are definitely respectful trans women who get accused of things they didn't do. Idk what the solution is because we can't put cameras in there


[deleted]

Chris-chan is a gullible, lonely person with autism who has been documented, gang stalked and manipulated for over a decade. How's your lovequest going? Where do you even find boy-friend free girls these days?


amazonas122

Autism has little to do with what chris chan did. They may have been bullied and attacked for years but ultimately what chris chan did was the choice of Chris Chan and no one else. That said, OPs argument is still extremely stupid and a massive generalization.


[deleted]

Austim was a significant factor in how and why he was manipulated, not an excuse for his actions. But I would be money that he will be declared unfit for trial.


chroma_src

If you think chris chan is actually trans like the way you are, either you're not trans as well or you dont know who you are talking about. You're talking about a highly autistic man with a history of being coaxed into all sorts of nonsense for peoples amusement, in this case because he was told it would get him laid. Pretty clearly not trans. Now, theres awful transsexuals out there and awful crossdressers and other sorts who call themselves trans or trans women, and theres all sorts of normal people. Hold individuals to account, not groups. And if we're going there, I heard recently a female child predator using her seemingly fake NB identity to get close to young girls, so theres that. Theres all sorts of abusive fucks out there, let's not pretend it's just the people who claim to be trans women and let's not conflate the ones who adopt the label with the people who are actually trans.


pk-600-c

Ah it's you again culture troll with your trans woman hate 🙃 Yes yes I'm a rapist cuz I'm a trans woman.


ibapconflicted

did you… read the post?


pk-600-c

The author is culturetroll and he only posts anti trans women hate on the sub 😅 I really don't care about what they wrote. But Christine chan or whatever said they transitioned cuz they wanted to find a boyfriend free gf lmfao They've been manipulated in multiple weird things like that too... Op says that trans men cis women and enby afabs don't do that kind of stuff implying it's only trans women who rape people.


ibapconflicted

>u/CultureTroll there is not a single hate post by this user. i just looked at their post history. criticizing the trans community for not taking a strong stance against these fake trans women predators and instead arguing about their pronouns is NOT "anti trans women hate". just because you don't like something someone wrote doesn't make it hateful. grow up. and yes, I can't find a single report of a trans man/cis woman/ enby afab trying to expose their genitals to a group of cis women or raping elderly grandparents. so i think it's safe to say that the trans woman community SHOULD be talking about this.


AntifaStoleMyPenis

I mean when people's post history seems to be rarely logging into their accounts mostly to rattle off hot takes about trans women, their motivations are probably going to get called into question. Just look at the post history of the author of the other "why is it always trans women" post. And this: >I can't find a single report of a trans man/cis woman/ enby afab trying to expose their genitals to a group of cis women You're not talking about trans women randomly flashing people: you're talking about people who have dicks in the women's locker room who are not covering up said dicks. The correct counterexample would be a pre-everything AFAB person walking around naked in the *men's* locker room. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why there are no pre-everything AFAB people walking around naked among a bunch of cis dudes, lol. Like seriously, what exactly is "the trans woman community" supposed to be talking about here? If the only criteria is identity, then we have no actual control over who's in The Community™ and might be being blamed for the actions of literal cis men. There's no natural filter for people abusing self-ID in single-sex spaces when you're talking about people who are possibly twice the size of the opposite sex rather than half the size 🤷‍♀️


ibapconflicted

i hate to tell you this but not covering your dick in a space designed for cis women is still flashing


obedinterrupt

No it's not. If a space is designed for cis women then it should say so. If it says women and just no one thought about trans women this is the space that I go to. I am not flashing my dick there but go about doing my business, e.g. changing or showering. What is fucked up, is to expect of me that I take extra measures to make sure no one could possibly take a look at my genitals like wearing cloth in the shower. I will simply shower facing the wall but my dick will probably be visible once I am finished to get my towel. If you advocate for that being legally equal to flashing than your are a fucked up transphobe, because you argue for segregating an oppressed minority. I am a woman and I have the same fucking rights to be in spaces for women. If cis women have internalized so much transphobia that my presence bothers them it's their problem. I will not go into a men's space and subject myself to harassment because of someone's transphobia. If a space has separate stalls I'd prefer those, but if that is not available it's not my fault.


AntifaStoleMyPenis

Okay and? Like that's the whole point: dicks are considered inherently threatening in a way that vulvas aren't. Nobody's worried about an AFAB "trender" bringing a vulva into the men's locker room because they're not considered remotely threatening to the cis men in there. There are never going to be "reports" because nobody cares one way or another, lol.


ibapconflicted

they’re considered inherently threatening to an AFAB person because… they are. the context that we live in is that people with dicks assault people with not dicks at a much higher rate and that afab people should be able to feel safe in a space without having to worry about someone assaulting them.


AntifaStoleMyPenis

Again: okay and? Like we're in agreement here: dicks are inherently threatening. The point is that vulvas aren't. So how is an AFAB person going to be "threatening" anyone with theirs and cause outrage porn incidents such as this one? How are there going to be reports of "AFAB people" intimidating people with their junk if their junk isn't considered inherently intimidating?


ibapconflicted

there aren’t going to be. that places even MORE emphasis on why the trans woman community should be speaking out against this.


pk-600-c

https://www.reddit.com/r/honesttransgender/comments/o3mxwx/some_of_the_people_who_argue_against/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share They also got Culture_Goblin that they use on phone or visversa I'm not here to link all the dumb shit they've said but you can also look through their deleted comments by using reveddit.


ibapconflicted

what exactly is wrong with that post?


SouthernYoghurt9

Don't you know that criticizing a trans women makes you a transmisogynist? 🧠


CultureTroll

Reading comprehension was never your strong suit


Elolzabeth1

>This person has been medically transitioning and consistent for years Going to stop you right there, they stopped hormones after like 3 months.


CultureTroll

They've been in jail though, right? They were on it for years, and have been out for 10 years. That's longer than me.


Elolzabeth1

No they were on hormones for 2-3 months, I believe they stopped due to sexual dysfunction, besides they literally admitted to being trans just to sleep with women.


CultureTroll

The wiki says 3 years. It could be wrong, but idk: https://sonichu.com/cwcki/Transgender