T O P

Your Favorite MV That Most People Dislike?

Your Favorite MV That Most People Dislike?

billabong1985

Probably Chasm for me, I don't think it's actively disliked so much as just considered kinda derivative and very average, but I really enjoyed it


mikronaut

When did you play? I think a lot of the general perception of this game comes from when it first came out, and it was significantly updated since then.


billabong1985

Only about a year ago, so maybe I got a better experience than early buyers


pepperduck

I’m not a fan having a randomly generated map in a MV.


billabong1985

Tbh I thought whatever algorithms they used did a fine job, I probably wouldn't have known the map was randomly arranged if I hadn't read about it beforehand, it really doesn't add anything worthwhile but I didn't think it hurt the experience either


Polantaris

Playing the randomized map ties together nicely in terms of transition and stuff like that, but the map itself leaves a lot to be desired. Metroidvanias thrive on their multiple paths, looping caverns, use of upgrades to make shortcuts, stuff like that that makes it so when you later need to go to Point A from Point B, it's not just a long tedious trail. Unfortunately, in Chasm, that's literally what the map generation did. It didn't collide with itself in a way that made it fun to travel through these areas again, it was honestly pretty tedious. As someone who has written multiple random generation algorithms for fun, Chasm's left a lot to be desired. Going back and collecting chests that were locked behind upgrades was terrible, because outside of actually getting the chest you didn't do anything different. You couldn't even really skip the mobs in the way or have a better way to handle them besides more damage. Backtracking for any reason was a bad experience because of these problems. The sad thing is that it's effectively turned people off of Metroidvania random map generation. It's not that random maps can't work for Metroidvanias, it's that Chasm honestly didn't do it well.


LoremasterSTL

I didn’t know about this one being randomly generated!!


SilverSniper512

I loved chasm so much!


tomcruise_momshoes

Yeah exactly. I put it in that 7/10 category, with games like Timespinner and The Mummy Demastered. All games I enjoyed, but they didn’t blow me away I enjoyed the RPG elements, all of the gear, and the game play was fun enough. I really just wish that they would have fleshed out a handcrafted world and kept everything else the same. The procedural generation wasn’t the worst I’ve seen, but I feel it made the game become a bit drab by the 3rd or 4th area.


billabong1985

I thought Chams nailed the castlevania format, it had good enemy variety and the levels were decently varied, if generic, I do agree a handcrafted world would have been better, but the random arrangement worked well enough I liked Timespinner a little less because the unique time manipulation mechanic was woefully under-used, and the story at a certain point just felt like it was shoehorning in every diversity check box they could think of, but it was otherwise a decent little game I'd have to agree about Mummy Demastered though, about on the same level, not terribly memorable but a fun time while it lasted


tomcruise_momshoes

Yeah, some of the story elements in Timespinner were really odd. Well, for an MV at least. I also wished the world would have been just a touch larger


Chronicler_C

Chasm is fine but it gets the worst of both worlds. The procedural generation is too present to make the exploration great yet also not present enough. Too many things are fixed between seeds which makes replaying it because of its randomness less exciting than it could be My opinion.


billabong1985

I don't disagree about the randomness not being enough to make replays truly different, but I never felt like it harmed the experience either, though no doubt a fully crafted map would have been better


Chronicler_C

Yeah I feel the same way. It's a good game but I feel like it gets very little benefit from the randomness and am thus left with the feeling that it could have been better if it ditched that aspect entirely.


billabong1985

Can't argue with that


Flameball537

Have not played a lot of MV games, but I love Song of the Deep and never see anyone take about it


TearOfTheStar

SotD is like Momodora RutM, small self contained gem of MV genre. One of the most atmospheric MVs imo with really nice music.


solamon77

Well, in that case, let me show it some love. I LOVE Song of the Deep. The story and world design really clicked with me. I love the idea of a lost civilization under the sea. On that note, you might want to check out The Aquatic Adventure of the Last Human. It's another under sea metroidvania, but it's gimmick is that the only fights are boss fights. The rest of the game is pure exploration. It's another one I never see mentioned so I figured what with you bringing up Song of the Deep, maybe I could shout out Aquatic Adventure of the Last Human. https://store.steampowered.com/app/401360/The\_Aquatic\_Adventure\_of\_the\_Last\_Human/


Lord_Spy

I remember Yahtzee said it was a bit too linear. As in, you really couldn't try many sidepaths since ability gates were pretty early.


Behindthefog

Sundered Eldritch edition. Yes,the enemy hordes are annoying. I love the huge hand drawn bosses and the path to choose light or dark upgrades. The skill tree is nice,too.


ButtsFartsoPhD

I guess Circle of the Moon. There are people who like it but a lot of people just outright hate that game. It’s legitimately my second favorite Metroidvania after Super Metroid. Also I love Harmony of Dissonance as well. It’s my second least favorite of the Castlevanias that play like Metroidvanias but I mean they are all excellent, top tier games.


tomcruise_momshoes

That’s exactly how I feel about Harmony. I have it as my second-to-least favorite too, but I just love the MV Castlevanias so much, that second to last isn’t the worst position to be in. I unfortunately am not a fan of COTM, but I still never finished the game. While it is generally disliked, the strong few that love it are passionate enough to make me wonder if I should revisit it and finish it after all.


ButtsFartsoPhD

I think for me it’s the sheer difficulty of the game. None of the regular enemies feel like fodder. You die to these enemies almost as much if not more than the bosses. Compared to the other Castlevania Metroidvanias where you’ll likely never die going from boss to boss it’s refreshing and satisfying imo. The controls complement this as well. What others view as clunky I view as much more deliberate, with each action having real weight and consequences similar to the original Classicvanias. I get that this game’s style isn’t for everyone, but if it’s something you enjoy you’re likely gonna really really enjoy it.


tomcruise_momshoes

Yeah true, it’s definitely more challenging than the other ones (which is a big plus to me, as my #1 gripe with nearly all of the MV Castlevanias is that they are too easy) I’ll be hopping back into it soon after I finish Harmony again, so hopefully things will click a bit more this time. It’s nice to see that there have been a few people on this thread that love the game


Chinova

I second this, I’m a big fan of Circle of the Moon. The game’s entire vibe just clicks with me, castle design, graphics, soundtrack, etc... I don’t have the new Switch Advance collection yet but I’m hoping they fixed it so you don’t have to double tap the button to run. I was able to get used to it damn, what an annoying design choice.


havoc8154

Unfortunately they did not, that would have been wonderful.


cjeris

It's funny to me that people complain about the DSS cards in CotM being random drops, but two games later, Aria of Sorrow (where _every_ enemy has a random drop, some with crushingly low probability) is regarded as a high point of the series.


ButtsFartsoPhD

I think it's because you know for sure each enemy in AoS has a random drop and there's a beastiary. In Circle of the Moon, you have no idea which enemy drops which cards. There's no in game indication. You either get lucky or you don't, and unless you look online there's just no way of knowing. So if you're missing the Unicorn card, for example, you don't know which enemy out of the nearly 100 it is you need to farm. That said I hear the Collection that just released added a beastiary for Circle of the Moon that tells you exactly what each enemy drops, including the cards. Further, they explain what each card does. I imagine that alone is going to change everyone's perception of the DSS card system and I'm curious to see if it elevates the reception of CotM as a whole.


Call_Me_Koala

> I think it's because you know for sure each enemy in AoS has a random drop and there's a beastiary. In Circle of the Moon, you have no idea which enemy drops which cards. There's no in game indication. You either get lucky or you don't, and unless you look online there's just no way of knowing. Exactly this. I can deal with low drop rates, it's the not knowing if an enemy is even supposed to drop something that's the problem.


CatAstrophy11

All that extra work for CotM and they didn't even bother to fix the DSS glitch. You don't even need to farm any of the cards to use them all and it's super easy.


Killcode2

Same, I think my first post on this sub was advocating for Circle of the Moon (and Zelda Minish Cap). Maybe I'm biased because it's the first Castlevania I played, but if it was bad like some people claim, then wouldn't CotM have put me off from the Castlevania series instead of making me interested?


LadyBonersAweigh

Excited about that collection the Switch just got? I actually haven't played any Castlevania games before, but I just beat Bloodstained & have the itch now.


ButtsFartsoPhD

Oh most definitely. I’ve beaten the GBA and DS Castlevania games multiple times each. They were a staple of my childhood/teenage years. I played Aria of Sorrow and Circle of the Moon a few years back and they held up just as well as I remembered. This is just another reason to replay them and I’m pretty pumped to check out the new QoL features such as a beastiary in CotM.


overpaid_bum

Super Daryl Deluxe. It gets no love in any lists, but it’s fun and really different from other games.


tomcruise_momshoes

This is one I’ve never played, but have always been interested in trying out


Grouch_OMarx

Metroid 2. A lot of it is nostalgia but I think it has some genuinely good qualities. Atmosphere is surprisingly good for a Gameboy game. And just the premise of hunting metroids while descending deeper and deeper into this unknown world is really compelling to me. There are legit criticisms. Easy to get lost, having to bomb seemingly random walls to progress, killing metroids gets repetitive. None of that stuff bothers me though.


ekolis

Metroid 2 is infinitely better than the original, simply by starting you with full health every time you respawn, rather than just 30 which forces you to grind for half an hour before doing anything.


tomcruise_momshoes

This will sound like blasphemy but I’ve actually never played Metroid 2. I had a Gameboy, but had no interest in Metroid games back when I was a kid You’ve actually got me a bit excited to try it now. The only one of the negatives you mentioned that is also a negative for me is the repetitive Metroid killing, but I can deal with it as I had to do it in both AM2R and SR. I love random cryptic wall bombing, as it’s a big part of the SM ROM hacks I love so much. So maybe it’ll be a good one for me!


Grouch_OMarx

A lot of people also just don't like it because it's old and it shows its age and technical limitations but since you had a Gameboy I imagine you'll more or less know what to expect.


tomcruise_momshoes

Gotcha, yeah I’m well familiar with the fidelity of the GB. I have also seen some brief gameplay of it on YouTube here and there and it always seems to look damn good all things considered


Glum-Box-8458

I found Metroid II’s unique in that the Gameboy limitations actually work for it. The dissonant ambiant 8-bit soundtrack and the cramped zoomed look of the game add a special creepiness to the game that none of the remakes managed to recapture. The last parts of the game always made me uneasy.


action_lawyer_comics

I tried to get into it, I really did. After AM2R came out and one of the devs said to please buy the original. So I got it in the DS store. But man oh man is that a rough game. I got so lost so fast. I had to use a map. And not just every now and again, but all the time. I really wanted to like it, but it just is so unintuitive. Maybe back in the day I would have been able to stomach it a bit more but today when there are much less frustrating games and it's been remade both officially and unofficially, I just don't see the need to give it another chance.


LoremasterSTL

The moment where you are hunting down the last Metroid and then the sound that tallies up additional Metroids nearby freaked me out. I will never forget that sound.


KasElGatto

The Mummy Demastered. Thoroughly enjoyed it, yet I always see it derided.


_kalron_

Yeah, I've said it several times, it's way better than it has any right to be. Studio gave the dev a zero budget to make a crappy game about a crappy movie and the decided to keep it simple and make a classic MV. It does nothing new and it's a rather short length but it's got great gameplay, upgrades, decent bosses and exploration as well as an excellent soundtrack. Its a fun ride and usually on sale for cheap, well worth it.


KerooSeta

Who? Who are these people that don't like The Mummy Demastered?! My one and only "criticism" of The Mummy Demastered is that the final boss is too balls hard and you can't skip the opening dialogue and cut-scene.


Fordiman

There's a bug where you can get the double-jump, then die in a place the double-jump gets you to, thereby making it impossible to progress.


KerooSeta

Crazy


tomcruise_momshoes

This is a great choice. The biggest knock I see most people mention about it is the whole death mechanic, but that didn’t bother me one bit. I actually liked the added challenge to finding and defeating my zombie body. I put it in that 7/10 area, but I really enjoyed it. For me personally, I wish it was a tad longer, but I think a lot of people would say that it’s shorter length is a plus as it doesn’t overstay it’s welcome.


niklashm

Well... the death mechanic actually softlocked me. After dying i lost the high jump ability and wasn't able to rech my zombie self. Had a great time up to that point though.


tomcruise_momshoes

Ah wow, that is the worst. Do you happen to know if they have since patched this?


niklashm

I have no idea. Sorry


KasElGatto

I give it 8.1/10 I actually find its short length to be a strength. I find short MVs refreshing.


Kxr1der

Damn dude, you rate on a 100 point scale? Lol


KasElGatto

I mean there is a huge difference between an 8.9 and an 8.1, you know?


action_lawyer_comics

But those scores are also only 0.1 away from each being a 9 and an 8 respectively


ChromakeyDreamcoat

These arguments always remind me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9dsJ-KS8o


SheepoGame

I really liked this game, but the whole part with dying kind of ruined my playthrough. (For those who don't know, it's similar to Hollow Knight taking your geo and making you return and fight your ghost to get it back, except this game does that with all your health and weapon upgrades). The issue is when you yet a ton of health upgrades, then get really far from a save point and die. Now your expected to do that exact same run, and kill your "zombie" all with 1/6th of the health you did it with the first time. To make it even harder, deaths stack up. I ended up quitting pretty far in after I left behind a dozen zombie forms and figured I would never get all my health upgrades back. Was really enjoying it before that though.


KasElGatto

Never had a problem with the system but I think they patched it, you might have played an earlier build


mikronaut

I've been told it's possible to hard lock in this game which has kept me from giving it a try so far, but I mostly hear decent things about it


KwesiJohnson

For me very clearly Sundered. That one gets a lot of flack when its mentioned, but i loved it from the first second to the end. Like others here I can also totally say that I totally get why the critics dont like it, I think at the time it just hit me exactly from the right angle. I think I somehow immediately reacted the right way to their gamedesign, e.g. I got that the waves are not something to survive often, I should just fight as hard and long as I can and then I get mad shards. A lot of people say that the game is button mashy, and of course, it objectively is, but I would say there is also a right way of being button mashy. The game is not easy or arbitrary, the combat is just more about being tactical with your ressources and flee from the enemy, then the hits being precise.


MS310

Good call. I really loved the art style Thunder Lotus has with Jotun and Sundered. I never actually finished Sundered and can’t remember why but this comment makes me want to give it another shot.


KwesiJohnson

They actually did an upgrade after launch that imho *greatly* improved upgrade pacing, e.g. much less grindy. That and ofc the dlc content you maybe also didnt play yet, some nice additions!


tomcruise_momshoes

Great one, I love Sundered and yes it definitely gets a ton of negativity. Someone mentioned on another post that it’s the only game that has truly managed to merge an MV and rouge-lite successfully, and I think this is spot on. I LOVE the upgrade tree. It is massive and kept me invested. Even on a failed run, I knew that was time well spent as I could upgrade my health, abilities etc before the next run


ashen_crow

I love sundered artstyle and atmosphere, but I got pretty far without upgrading too much stuff and then I got to a boss that was a dps test and couldn't progress, dropped the game


action_lawyer_comics

Was that the one with the two bosses and you could knock out one at a time but if you didn't kill the other one the first one would come back to life? That's where I dropped the game too.


ashen_crow

Yup, that one exactly


abrainaneurysm

Isn’t that the boss of the eastern or essentially the third zone? It’s like one of the last ones you should fight as you should have most of the ability upgrades in the game. By that point you should also have a huge chunk of the skill tree upgrades.


ashen_crow

The point is, I had an easy time beating the other ones and the zones, so I didn't have much of the skill tree filled, also I had a bad luck with the random charms (I don't remember what they're called in-game) so my stats were weak


deepbarrow

Damn, people don’t like Sundered much? It’s kind of weird and grindy, but I thought it was satisfying, fluid, creative, and nice-looking. Interesting lore, unusual setting, cool eldritch buddy in your head. Maybe Sundered is a game you need to “get” to enjoy it.


gmrsk13

I got sundered and the movement is super smooth and I do think I could find some fun along the way, but I refunded thinking I could better spend my $10 bucks elsewhere right now


Apokaladle

I'd agree on Harmony of Dissonance. It definitely had room for improvement but I actually completed it and enjoyed it, unlike Circle of the Moon which I abandoned halfway through because I just found it so unappealing. I'm hoping I'll find CotM more approachable this time, though.


tomcruise_momshoes

I’m right there with you on COTM. I never finished it due to losing interest, but I am going to give it another shot with the Advance Collection.


McRoager

I am the opposite. Really enjoyed Circle despite its faults, but Harmony is the one I actively disliked.


TopHatPaladin

Probably Timespinner for me. People have criticized it for being on the easy side and for underusing the time-travel mechanics, and while I think those criticisms are correct, there’s something about the controls and mechanics that makes the game very fun on a moment-to-moment level. I also want to give a shout-out to Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, a metroidvania-style Kirby game that isn’t *disliked* so much as just overlooked.


tomcruise_momshoes

The Timespinner soundtrack is absolutely amazing. I enjoyed my play through of it. I understand most people like shorter and smaller games, but I just wish that the world was larger and the game a bit longer. I only finished it once, and it’s one of those rare MV’s I always get a craving to go back to play. I don’t know what it is - a certain nostalgia about the game that draws me in It’s not my favorite ever, but it always seems to cross my mind as it left some sort of an impact with me


pfloydguy2

Timespinner comes to mind for me too. I think it's the best Metroidvania outside of the Metroid and Castlevania series. It's not a perfect game, but it ticks all the right boxes for me - great soundtrack, beautiful pixel art, distinct level themes, fun bosses, enjoyable backtracking.


Apokaladle

Definitely agreed. I'd say most of the criticisms I see are fair (except for people worked up about Forced Diversity In Video Games or some such nonsense) but ultimately my biggest complaint by the time I completed it was that I wished it was longer, which is a pretty good sign of quality in my book.


mlopes

There's quite a few I liked but have already been mentioned several times in this thread. But there's one which hasn't yet so I'll talk about that one. Axiom Verge 2. It immediately shot up to the top places of my list of best metroidvanias I've ever played. But, it seems that most people hate it with a passion. Funny thing is that people complain about combat and having to crouch to attack some enemies, the same people will be singing praise to Blasphemous where having to do this, and having to stop to parry with an enemy are the most common mechanics.


tomcruise_momshoes

I must admit I haven't given AV2 enough of a chance to make a final decision. The first game is in my top 3 indie MV's ever, so I think I was just disappointed in the direction of 2 and I put it down. This is a case where I personally would have loved more of the same, only because it has been 6 years since AV released and I wanted more of it. But I commend Thomas for going in a new direction, as there are no other MVs like AV2. The exploration, from what I have played, is something special for a 2D game. However, I will definitely be continuing it in the near future when I am more in the mood for it


tomtomato0414

well imagine working on the same thing for 6 years, would you want to create something new or do the same you have beeb doing for years to create Axiom Verge 1? I really like that the exploration doesn't feel like you are in a box, yet you can still explore every nook and cranny.


tomcruise_momshoes

Yeah as mentioned I commend Thomas for making something totally new and unique. I was just saying that for me personally, I would have loved for it to be more of a direct sequel and that’s a reason that I didn’t connect with it. But I can’t make a final judgement yet as there is a lot more game left


tomtomato0414

yeah lol the downvote wasnt from me, upvoted your comment


tomcruise_momshoes

All good, thx


breakingfreedesign

Odallus.... I was addicted to this game but if I'd followed reviews I'd never of even tried it.


KerooSeta

I haven't played an Igavania I don't like. Circle of the Moon? Good. Harmony of Dissonance? Good. Dawn of Sorrow? GOOOOOOOD. So, I guess any of those. I think people have issues with all 3 of those (I mean, I have some issues, too), but I love them all.


paragonemerald

I haven't seen anybody else say it, and it was this subs MV of the year in its year of release, but it's also super divisive and I frigging love *The Messenger*. It is such a nostalgia trip to go through what seems like a straight forward sequential consecutive action platformer ala *Ninja Gaiden* and *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles*, yet I kept on noticing weird prominent features of level design that implied I was missing something that I should already have to traverse a kind of obvious platforming/traversal challenge that I just can't interact with for some reason. "Huh!" I wondered, "What could this game be doing? I heard it was a metroidvania, but it sure doesn't actually seem like one..." Then, well. Ah, what a great game. Opened up so much. What a fun character to play as and move as and fight as. What a wonderful world and soundtrack and series of complicated platforming puzzles.


Luhmies

**Castle in the Darkness**! The way optional areas are tucked away makes discovering them so satisfying. I actually feel as though most games in the genre aren't partiuclarly interesting when it comes to after you've been around the metroidvania block. Castle in the Darkness and La-Mulana are two of the few games that really sucked me in in that regard. The latter has a cult following with a huge presence on this sub, but no one really talks about CitD that much. Granted, it's superficially linear, has a lot of retro horseshit, and has a referential style that might seem a bit cheap to some, but it's a really special game that recaptures the mystique of NES-era proto-metroidvanias that's almost totally lost today. I'm also glad to see **Chasm** as one of the top responses right now. It has some of the best enemy design (visually and more importantly mechanically) and vanilla platforming that I've seen in the genre. Unfortunately, it's got a generic look to it and the procedural generated world doesn't help with that either (though I think people blow this issue out of proportion). Despite those issues, I had a total blast with the game on a moment to moment basis. The game definitely deserves more love.


Lord_Spy

While you **will** die a lot to some trollish things in CitD, I felt checkpoints and unlocked shortcuts were common enough that those rarely bothered me. A minor complaint of it I have is that with a few bosses I'm unsure if using certain alt weapons is cheesing them or the intended way to get around their patterns.


MS310

I really enjoyed Dust:AET and hardly ever see it mentioned.


Darkshadovv

I played it because Steam reviews marked it as "overwhelmingly positive". While combat and platforming were passable, it had some pretty colorful and wholesome moments (the Fidget Drawing was a good chuckle). I find it odd people criticize the "furry" aspect when it's just cartoony anthropomorphic animals no different than Star Fox, Crash Bandicoot, or even Disney.


kylesnooze

Nah man, it's definitely a lot more furry aesthetic than star fox, crash, and many Disney IPs. I see this comparison a lot, and the fact is, Dust definitely has art based on furry art, it literally looks like furry art.


dexter_wherly

It also has the problem of bad (and usually pornographic) furry art where they don't even really look like any specific animal, they're just that generic furry body where they tweak the tail or snout or coloring to make different animals but the body is always 90% the same.


kylesnooze

Ya like i cringed the entire game. I can I guess appreciate it was one dude who made the game he wanted to make, but I felt gross playing it and was scared to let my roomates seeing me play lol


tomcruise_momshoes

Nice! I am one of the people who dislike this game, but I can understand the appeal of it. I managed to finish it as well, so I must have liked at least parts of it. It looks beautiful and it has a really unique combat system, almost like a beat em up with all of the enemies It’s funny, because this is an extremely highly rated game (90 on Metacritic). But I fully agree that it is an overall hated game. It used to get praise when it came out, but I think so many MV’s have released since then so it is a bit forgotten about. These days I see mostly negativity around it


mikronaut

What did you dislike about it? I've been curious to give it a try.


action_lawyer_comics

I liked it well enough, but it didn't really do anything to stick in my mind. It's like James Cameron's Avatar. I guess I'd still recommend it, but it's hard when there are games out there that are stronger and with a better personality.


Fordiman

Dust was OK. I don't really see hate for it, but then, I don't really see anything for it.


makeshifttoaster02

People don't dislike Dust though? It has Overwhelmingly Positive on Steam. Just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean most people dislike it, it just means it's not as popular.


mikronaut

It is mentioned sometimes here and usually when it is, it's mentioned negatively


makeshifttoaster02

A quick search of "Dust" in the r/metroidvania search bar shows pretty much 90+% positive comments and posts.


bike_tyson

I LOVE Dust! You're right. I never see it posted. Something about the Fidget character and "Elysian Tail" name made me think it would be very cheesy and kiddy, but playing it, it was instantly amazing. I loved the in-game artwork, exploration, and stats.


PapaDole1995

It’s split down the middle but I loved Axiom Verge 2. Super fun exploration and power ups and the story was interesting enough to keep me going


spunkyweazle

Has that even been out long enough to be universally liked or disliked?


tomtomato0414

ohman, just check r/axiomverge and you will see... many wanted the game to be Axiom Verge 1 - Part 2, though short I really, really loved it, especially paired with that godly OST and the non-cubical map exploration


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SetAbomnai07

Sundered for me. Something about the movement and combat did it for me.


tomcruise_momshoes

Great game. I love the rogue-lite elements, as I’m a big fan of that genre too. Amazing upgrade tree as well


rube

Bloodstained seems to get a lot of flak for looking bad and not innovating much. But for me, it has every element of a MV that makes me love it. It has a fairly well designed world to traverse and unlock. It has a ton of abilities to gain and use. And one thing I really love about it is the end game optional grindfest. I love that I can just keep playing the game for hours and hours killing random stuff, and possibly gaining multiple things from each kill: Experience, shards and items. This adds a ton of reason for me just to zone out and farm areas as opposed to MVs where enemies just drop money (like Hollow Knight) or health/weapon refills (like Metroid). Don't get me wrong, those other options are great, and it's a design choice to pick what you're going to go with. But for me, the SotN/BS method gives the game more staying power in the long run.


MasterMike000

I really hate that people automatically dislike Bloodstained or don't give the game a chance just because it isn't using sprite animations. Yes, the 2.5D isn't perfect but man, at least the developers really tried their best to make the game look great as much as possible with it's artstyle and I think they did a good job. But other than the artstyle...It doesn't change that Bloodstained moves, plays, feels, sounds EXACTLY like a igavania Castlevania game. It's everything a hardcore Castlevania would want...and yet people just hate it because it's 2.5D. Heck gameplay wise, it's easily one of the best igavania games with how much it offers. Sure, it's not very innovative but I'm ok with that. I mean, look at Mighty No 9, it tried to be innovative with its dashing mechanic and yet, no one cared because Mega Man fans just wanted a game that plays like a Mega Man game. Bloodstained just sticked to giving us everything we loved in a igavania game and it did a good job.


Pseudagonist

Personally I think that the hidden gem Hollow Knight is a certified gaming classic that needs more appreciation from this subreddit in particular. Criminally underrated and should definitely be mentioned in more threads


action_lawyer_comics

Hey I just beat that one, great game, 11/10 GOTY for sure. Can you recommend me any other Metroidvanias to try? I will not supply any more information about what I like or what else I've played.


Pseudagonist

Yeah, of course! Gotta say, if you haven’t yet played Hollow Knight…that’s a certified gaming classic that you DEFINITELY shouldn’t miss. If you’ve played that hidden gem, might I suggest Super Metroid?


action_lawyer_comics

Su...per Met..roid? Hmm, it's not showing up in Steam. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the tip!


fungiraffe

Nobody ever talks about this one, but definitely worth checking out for any fan of Metroid-Castlevania style video games!


Pseudagonist

This guy gets it! If you're a fan of Dark Souls-style games, this is definitely one game you don't want to miss!


idlistella

I don't know if people dislike it, but La Mulana is a pretty divise game that I think is a gift to this world from heaven. Easily my favorite game of all time and rivals hollow knight in terms of length of quality content. Best music too imo. It just has a lot if things that turn away new players.


action_lawyer_comics

La Mulana is just doing its own thing. I've come to terms with that, and I don't like it. It doesn't mean that I think it's a *bad* game, just that I don't like the thing it does very well.


NecrumOddBoy

Batman Arkham Blackgate is not highly loved or known (maybe because it launched on Vita) but I think it was a truly great MV set in the Arkham series.


tomcruise_momshoes

Nice, this is one I’ve legitimately never heard of. I used to have a modded Vita but I don’t anymore, but I’m sure there is a way to emulate it by now. If so I’ll have to check it out


MarioFanaticXV

You can get it on Steam if you have a PC.


tomcruise_momshoes

Oh awesome thanks, I didn’t know it was on PC as well


TheDarkHorse

This was such a great surprise of a game when I originally bought it. It was also on the 3DS.


ArmadaConnochia

I have seen many people criticizing Cathedral on this sub, but it's one of my top 5 MV. Very tight controls, great sense of progression, challenging bosses, amazing artstyle


tomcruise_momshoes

I actually started Cathedral not too long ago, and really enjoyed it. I got hit with a barrage of games to play (both MVs and non MVs), and I put it on the back burner but will absolutely be getting back to it Good choice btw. I think a big reason that a lot of people aren’t into it may be the difficulty. I love challenging games, so when I hear a game is disliked due to challenge, it’s always good to hear


ArmadaConnochia

It's difficult game, but it's really not that difficult like some metroidvanias on this sub that are praised eg ESA or Hollow Knights pantheon


tomcruise_momshoes

I see, that’s good. I didn’t get too far so I haven’t hit anything too bad yet. I always just remember seeing posts here about a couple areas that are really brutal


emanuuuu

I abandoned the game a while a go due to a room in the final area of the game. A shame since I had done 100% map completion and collected all books up to this point but the room really frustrated me. I might return to it later. Also some of the bosses are really tough if you don't have upgraded sword.


tomcruise_momshoes

What was the room like? Was it a difficult on the platforming end, enemies or both?


emanuuuu

It was a very large room with ladders consisting mostly platforming with ghost enemies that knock you back down. Edit: I was able to get through the room a couple of times, but since I found no checkpoint after I had to go all the way back and do a whole bunch of rooms again.


tomcruise_momshoes

Just wanted to say thanks again for bringing up Cathedral. I started a new play-through a couple days back and I am loving it, even more than my initial run. I love big, sprawling MV's with lots of environments and it fits the bill. Also love the challenge.


xiipaoc

I guess I can't really say, because some of my favorites are La-Mulana and Phoenotopia, both games that are fairly divisive, yet Metroidvania Review rated both of them at 5 out of 5, so they can't be *that* disliked. I guess I'm going to have to go with Elliot Quest. I've heard a bit of negativity about it, but I really enjoyed it and I think it's a game that does a lot of things very, very well. Also, I really enjoyed Aquaria (...for the most part), which doesn't get talked about a whole lot despite its protagonist being right at the top left of this sub's banner. I feel like, more often, I *don't* like a game that everyone else seems to like. I couldn't really get into Ori, for example, and I have a deep dislike for Metroid Fusion for screwing up the Metroid formula. And Hollow Knight was great but not God's gift to gaming? I could do without the endurance precision combat, to be honest.


action_lawyer_comics

I really disliked La-Mulana, but also I recognize that it's doing something different, and that's okay. Aquaria I tried to get into, but I just couldn't. I think it's in part because it's an older indie game and does some things that would now be considered unintuitive since we have a ton of indie games to choose from.


Visible_Status3789

Castlevania Mirror of Fate always gets hate. I love it!


tomcruise_momshoes

This has been on my list for awhile but I always forget about it. I had no idea it was an MV until about a year ago, thanks for the reminder!


EtherBoo

It's really not a Metroidvania. It's as much Metroidvania as Rondo is; some alternating paths but no ability gating or anything. It's a 3DS tie in to it's bigger sibling on PC/Consoles.


EasyRecognition

It's either Death's Gambit or Phoenotopia: Awakening, I can't tell which one is more disliked.


tomcruise_momshoes

I simply cannot wait for the 30th for Afterlife. The base game of Death’s Gambit was good, but had some flaws that took away from it for me. It looks like they will be addressing a lot of that in Afterlife and a LOT more. So excited Also Phoenotopia is great - I need to get back to that one. I was about 5 hours in but a bunch of games came out, and I put it down. I love the sheer size of the game, how much there is to do, the graphics and story.


explosivecupcake

Off the top of my head, I'd say *Metroid Fusion*. It has great atmosphere, I Iove it, but some seem to find it too linear. I've even see a few people argue that it's not a true Metroidvania.


paragonemerald

Yeah, I would argue that it's not a metroidvania (but it *is* one of my favorite games and a big reason why I love the Metroid franchise, which brought me on to loving games like Guacamelee and Hollow Knight), mostly because there's about one sequence break which is just more or less for an easter egg conversation. The hidden path interconnectedness of the map for 100%ing at the very end is a really fun experience, but up to that point it's a totally on rails game. It's also still a beautiful, atmospheric, scary action platformer with progression collectibles and missable upgrades and secret destructible blocks and sweet boss fights, but it's not a game where you guide your own exploration and problem solving as you draw a map of a dense and mysterious interconnected world with ability gated boundaries. It's a game where you do most of that except somebody tells you where to go and what to do, or you are trapped in a hallway until you get back to the person for them to tell you the next thing to do.


Expensive-Box-9667

I feel like my pick is a generally liked game outside of this sub, but this sub seems to hate it: Metroid Fusion. Love the soundtrack, love the drip feed plot, love the ambiance. Also one of the coolest Samus suits to date.


tomcruise_momshoes

Yes that is very accurate. Before I started coming to this sub, it felt like Fusion was either everyone’s first or second favorite Metroid game, rivaling only SM. But here it’s a different story I always felt like the outcast before coming here, as I personally am not huge on the game. But it’s more for personal preferences, not really anything I would consider a universal flaw. It’s still a great game, I just like the less story-driven, less linear Metroid games


Expensive-Box-9667

I don't really feel like the game is really flawed at all—just not targeting MV purists' tastes I suppose. It frequently gets listed as top 10 greatest GBA games of all time so I feel like its unequivocally great.


paragonemerald

It is unequivocally great and a big reason why I play MVs at all, even if it is linear and doesn't give that same aesthetic of play that the purist in me craves. I've still played it over and over and over again.


Darkshadovv

[How everyone reacts to the bunny girl game Rabi-Ribi](https://i.redd.it/9hnrq8btbyc61.jpg)... which is odd as I've not seen similar reactions to Bunny Must Die or Bloodstained. A shame to let aesthetics get in the way of a wonderful game.


mikronaut

Rabi-Ribi is a weird case because nearly everyone I know who has played it loves it, it's just that people are hesitant to get into it.


Adhlc

The artstyle is a huge turn off for me personally. Maybe one day I can look past it, but something about it makes me not even want to try the game.


Luhmies

Yeah, I ended up playing through it, and despite enjoying the gameplay, I really can't get past the degenerate artstyle. I can't recommend the game to anyone.


lllluke

grow up


Luhmies

How far gone do you have to be to think [this shit](https://imgur.com/a/26Yfxpv) isn't weird as fuck? And that's not even one of the fanservice artworks.


action_lawyer_comics

So I'm guessing the main reason why no one reacts to Bunny Must die is that they've never heard about it. I had to look it up and apparently it was a Vita exclusive at first? And with Bloodstained, yeah Miriam looks like she got her first paycheck from a summer job and cashed it directly at a Hot Topic that also does tattoos, but she at least looks like an adult. I can play it on the couch next to my wife, and maybe she'd eyeroll at the skin on display, but that's still better than Rabi-Ribi. It isn't even the bunny girl main character. To me, it's the fairy in the trailer that looks 12 or 13 and is wearing a halter with definite side and underboob and a skirt with some side butt on display. That's a world apart from Miriam with her shorts on under her skirt.


Darkshadovv

Yeah I definitely agree that they shot themselves in the foot with some of the designs (the sequel seems to be more covered up)... but Steam's "overwhelmingly positive" review must mean it's a legit game, and as I played the game I eventually stopped caring about the questionable aesthetics. Great gameplay triumphs, and I was surprised it had next-to-none of Shantae's saucy scenes that's typically expected in anime.


action_lawyer_comics

I don’t care about how “saucy” the game is or isn’t. They put a character that looks 12 in an outfit that’s more revealing than lingerie and it looks like she’s present in that outfit for every line of dialog in the game. That’s *extremely* more problematic than that time in Shantae that everyone dressed up in the Slave Leia costume. I’m not saying it’s a bad game, but I’m also going to call that shit out when I see it.


Atijohn

Bloodstained is vastly different. Gothic artstyle with not nearly as much horniness. And characters in the game look like (and are) adults, not oversexualized lolis. I've rarely heard anyone *talking* about Bunny Must Die on this sub, so it's a popularity problem.


action_lawyer_comics

I had never even heard of Bunny Must Die until this comment


Lord_Spy

The fact there were either licensing issues or the original publisher took a hissy fit and removed the game's from sale doesn't help.


Classic_Mckoy

Iconoclast


Affectionate-Key-680

I personally hold Harmony of Dissonance and Aria of Sorrow very close to my heart as well, and I have an entire post explaining why I believe it's much better than people give it credit for. On the flip side, I can't stand Circle of the Moon, but most people seem to love it.


virtueavatar

[Magicians & Looters](https://store.steampowered.com/app/284180/Magicians__Looters/) is surprisingly unpopular. I'm not sure if it's just because people don't know about it. Steam's search is a bit weird about finding it if you type in the ampersand.


JOhn101010101

I picked this as well. I thought that game was really funny and fun, even if the boss fights are tediously long.


chrispy4627

Alwa's Awakening. Very great game, coming to NES soon and not enough people talk about it.


ThrashCaptain

Dandara is pretty divisive for obvious reasons. If you're unfamiliar, the game was originally on mobile, but it's way better than you'd expect from a mobile game. The thing is, it was designed for mobile and has a very unique control scheme. You don't move back and forth. Your only movement is jumping from surface to surface. Which is strange, but ends up incredibly cool once you get used to it. The boss fights are beyond epic as well. Stylish af. The movement also allows for some really clever puzzles as well. It's a very unique game. Also, playable for free if you have PlayStation Now.


tomcruise_momshoes

I actually own this game and have been meaning to get back into it. I admittedly didn’t play much so I cannot say whether or not I like it yet, but that is awesome to hear that there are great boss fights and puzzles. So far this thread has gotten me back into quite a few games that I ditched (Cathedral, COtM, Metroid 2, etc), so I’ll add Dandara to that list as I’ve been in a mood to rediscover some older games I’ve dismissed.


Lord_Spy

I'd slightly reword this as being slightly awkward on controllers, but with mouse and keyboard it functions like butter.


espfusion

Just going to say that most of the games people are bringing are way more liked than disliked, at least going by review aggregates and general opinion on this sub. The only MV I can think of that I enjoyed and that might possibly be more disliked than liked here is Finding Teddy II (aka Chronicles of Teddy)


andythefisher777

I loved, loved, loved Kunai. I'm not sure if most people DISLIKE it, but I see more criticisms of it than I see love for it. It's definitely a very linear game, but the movement is just SO FUN, and there's still plenty of backtracking and cool stuff to find. It was an instant favorite for me personally.


tomcruise_momshoes

I think the general consensus is that it’s decent, but it definitely fits here on this thread since you’re right in that there are a lot of criticisms about it. I finished it and it was pretty fun. Not my personal fav, but I definitely get the appeal of it. It plays very nicely and has some unique visuals


Typo_of_the_Dad

I suppose the most contentious are: Circle of the Moon Metroid Fusion Cave Story Zillion Monster World 3-4 (Wonder Boy) - I admit they lack some aspects you'd expect from a MV but they're really charming and generally well paced Blaster Master: Blasting Again (PS1) - Ok fave is a stretch but it's a bit underrated ​ I didn't mind Harmony in some ways, I liked most bosses and much of the music too. I should finish hard mode sometime.


CarpeKitty

Wait there are people who don't like cave story??


Typo_of_the_Dad

In here, definitely


mikronaut

I don't think I've ever heard someone here say they don't like it, what it gets often is people saying it's not a metroidvania, which isn't a bad thing.


Typo_of_the_Dad

Sure, I think what most are saying is that they don't like it as a MV (which I do think it is) because it's not open-ended enough or doesn't have enough ability gating. Well this is just my impression, I haven't made a poll about it.


CarpeKitty

Yikes. Such a monumental game, a shame people are missing out on a pretty big deal with that one


xiipaoc

Yeah, I couldn't really get into it?


tomtomato0414

If you haven't I highly recommend Blaster Master Zero Trilogy, the controls are soooooo good. Also good to see Wonder Boy, I love it as well


SupportMeta

I will not shut up about Touhou Luna Nights until every person on this goddamned subreddit has given it a chance. I don't care if it's "too linear" and "basically just an action platformer" and "all the rooms are just boxes." The platforming, combat, and boss fights are that good. Play it.


Atijohn

don't forget about the soundtrack. This shit can compete with the likes of Symphony of the Night and The Messenger.


Professional-Act3145

The Messenger


anjinash

They're not ones people seem to dislike, per se.... but both *Astalon: Tears of the Earth* and *Vigil: The Longest Night* are some of the best games I've come across in the last two years and definitely among my favorite modern metroidvanias ... yet I practically never see people discussing or recommending either title here.


indspenceable

I haven't played vigil but I agree re: Astalon! I think the structure of the game (essentially no healing, restart from the same location each death) makes the players mastery of the map itself important + rewarding ([that short cut located east east north east north from the ruins of ash 1 elevator was such a cool discovery!](#s))


action_lawyer_comics

Yeah, I'll be honest, those things do sound like a turn off for me. I like the occasional hard game but I dislike having to run back and forth every time I die.


anjinash

I usually agree, but the way it's implemented in Astalon takes most of the sting out of it. You unlock an elevator as you play that fast-tracks you to various areas you've unlocked as you play. It works really well. And if I'm being entirely honest with myself, Astalon is not a particularly difficult game. I'd even say it's just a step or two away from being easy.


tomcruise_momshoes

Astalon is my 2021 GOTY so far, and it actually gets quite a bit of discussion and a TON of praise here. I think it still may be a touch under the radar compared to the huge ones like Hollow Knight of course, but over the years it may establish that cult following (unless it’s retro style prohibits that) I enjoyed Vigil as well, though definitely not as much as Astalon. I loved exploring the huge world, but little things like the map and some jank held it back a bit


Lord_Spy

They're not top tier in discussion, but they've gotten fair fandom coverage. Especially Astalon.


vistraTBA

Not so much disliked as much as critiqued for being mediocre, especially the last couple years in this sub, but Axiom Verge. I loved it, story, gameplay, everything. Sure it could've been better and i think that's where most of the opinions on it intersect, but i liked it for what it was, which i remember most people also felt the same way up until recently. Though i could just be seeing more of the negative opinions on this game because people tend to critique the more popular games idk


ZAKMagnus

Not as a game in itself but as a metroidvania, I'd say Zelda 1. People say it doesn't belong. I say it does a better job living up to the promises of the genre than Your Favorite Example.


action_lawyer_comics

Yeah, but what can you do? It's a Zelda game, and Zelda-likes are pretty much their own subgenre too. It's the Metroid Fusion problem all over again. It's not a Metroidvania, but it is a Metroid game so it causes confusion and anger. Personally I'd love to see the "action/adventure" term come back to prominence like in the SNES era. Then people wouldn't need to preface so many recommendations with "It's not a MV, but..."


mikronaut

Outbuddies has gotten a lot of mediocre to poor reception, and for me it's better than Axiom Verge and should be the definitive Metroid-like MV. It has a fair share of aspects to criticize, mostly the monotonous colors and music and some tedious backtracking, but those things didn't ruin or even significantly dampen the experience for me. It gets some criticism on the controls sometimes but for me the controls are like Zero Mission/AM2R but even better and more satisfying. In short, I don't get what people don't see on it, I still look back on it fondly and will definitely replay it later. My other pick is Column On The Sea but that's not really disliked, it's just one that barely anyone knows about / has given a chance. It's generally liked by the <10 people who played and reviewed it.


Weltall548

ESA is the definitive Metroid-like


mikronaut

ESA, to me, is too much its own experience to be the definitive Metroid-like. It goes beyond Metroid to something deeper


action_lawyer_comics

Outbuddies just felt kinda lackluster all around. The stealth stuff felt wholly unnecessary and I didn't use it since the tutorial, so I forgot about it and had to message the dev on Steam to figure out what to do (he got back to me pretty quick, so that was cool). And there was the weird choice that your power to transform enemies only worked on certain ones, not all enemies of that type a la Axiom Verge, and the way if you got hit in Morph Ball (he called it Homunculous but it's a Morph Ball), you would un-morph, making you die instantly from the flames or acid you were safely traversing as a ball. Using your "buddy" in single player was a bit clunky, and then there was a boss fight where you needed to use said buddy in order to beat it... I could go on, apparently. It's not the worst game I played, I even beat it, but I was just pretty disappointed all the time. All in all, it felt like I was struggling against the game itself, rather than the challenges inside the game, if that makes sense. I played the demo for Column on the Sea but it just felt a bit bland to me. The colors didn't help and it just felt like a lot of stuff I'd seen before. I bet if I got it in a bundle with other games that interested me, I'd play it and like it, but I just can't bring myself to buy it on its own.


mikronaut

IDK, I think all those things are too subjective to warrant the reception it's gotten, I didn't see really any of those things as flaws and none of them detracted from the experience for me. I found myself using dodge frequently and it really helped in combat, both bosses and normal enemies. There were things that detracted for me but they were mostly just what I mentioned above As for Column On The Sea, its greatest strength is the character dynamics. It's also interesting to me because of the definite Metroid II influence which I haven't seen often besides in Metroid II remakes.


BrunoStalky

Chasm, it's not hated or anything but the "roguelike" mechanic threw off a lot of people and stopped them from experiencing a game that is pretty fun if not a bit generic. The lack of proper documentation on all the different items and drop rates really hurts when trying to research for stuff


mlopes

Chasm isn't even a roguelike, it would be if on death you started a new run on a new map, but it doesn't, it literally is just a metroidvania with a generated map. I also kept away from it for thinking it was a roguelike but when I finally got to play it, found out it wasn't a roguelike and that it is a pretty good game.


danmeniscus

Zeliard. I wouldn't say it's disliked, probably more that most have never heard of it. It came out in the late 80s and was a massive part of my gaming childhood. It's only recently I actually considered this an MV. It came out around a similar time as the very first castlevania, which I never played, but it has all the usual tropes, that are now staples of the genre. It's incredibly dated now, but I definitely look back fondly on this one.


kalirion

I somehow managed to enjoy [Porradaria 2: Pagode of the Night](https://store.steampowered.com/app/431220/Porradaria_2_Pagode_of_the_Night/) despite playing it in the Portuguese and alt-tabbing to use Google Translate for the dialogue lines.


epicmemes69420

I haven’t played that many non-Castlevania/Metroid games in the franchise aside from Touhou Luna Nights and Bloodstained, so most of the ones I played are very popular and people like them, I’m correctly replaying Harmony of Dissonance too, in retrospect I definitely enjoy this over Circle of the moon.


Purple_Plus

A lot of peope (on here in particular) hate Ender Lillies but I thought it was a decent time. Nothing amazing or groundbreaking but good enough for me to finish it which is more than most games these days.


RosgaththeOG

I have put in way too much time into Valdis Story: Abyssal City. Like, I think steam puts me at somewhere around 176 hours logged. I may have tried to beat the game with each character on the hardest difficulty....