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'We Shouldn't Do It at All': Manchin Admits He's the Enemy of Democrats' Ambitions | The right-wing West Virginia Democrat and fossil fuel investor has previously confessed his intent to quash his own party's sweeping $3.5 trillion Build Back Better package.

'We Shouldn't Do It at All': Manchin Admits He's the Enemy of Democrats' Ambitions | The right-wing West Virginia Democrat and fossil fuel investor has previously confessed his intent to quash his own party's sweeping $3.5 trillion Build Back Better package.

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monkeywithgun

>'We Shouldn't Do It at All' ~~: Manchin Admits He's the Enemy of Democrats' Ambitions | The right-wing West Virginia Democrat and fossil fuel investor has previously confessed his intent to quash his own party's sweeping $3.5 trillion Build Back Better package.~~ but hey, count me in on that 21 trillion for domestic and foreign militarization... Now that's an investment that gives returns,,, to my pocketbook,,, Yeehaw!


refillforjobu

*Buys lockheed stock*


Franklin_le_Tanklin

Biden should play hardball. Cancel all coal and fossil fuel subsidies. Cancel all student debt. Make them wish they had passed this.


Imanaccountant123

he can't do that lol. "Fossil Fuel Subsidies" often refers to percentage depletion and that's a tax thing controlled by... congress.


crackerb59

Maybe, just maybe, there is a way to close some loopholes in the tax code. I don't know much about how that works but perhaps someone in this discussion knows a way


veryblanduser

Pretty sure majority, including progressives, voted for that military funding.


Jaybeare

Those progressives don't claim to be against government spending.


inthedollarbin

AOC, Tlaib, Omar, Bowman, Ro Khanna, Cori Bush, Ayanna Pressley, Jayapal, a couple dozen other Dems — all voted no. https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2021293


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Carnivore_Crunch

The way he is angering people, it wouldn’t surprise me if he fell off that yacht under sus events.


WarLizurd

That's certainly one area where the "both sides" bullshit is... Not bullshit. It's straight up stupid and evil, but hey... Welcome to America.


rif011412

I cant speak for all congress people, but the two santa clause theory reigns supreme here. Mostly Republicans have intertwined military with security and patriotism. Which the average voting imbecile thinks is top priority. If you vote against military spending its no different than trying to become a politician as an atheist. It a political ball and chain. We need to break this conservative fever dream that fear is the best motivator. Green infrastructure is just as important if you dont fear for our ecological future, but that you just fuckin care about people and the habitat. But military is not that versatile, its only fear and its useless in our fight to be better people. Military is about being superior, not moral. That in itself is a conservative tenant I wish the average person would realize.


meowskywalker

Cause nearly every congressman has a town that would implode if we weren’t paying them to build some military hardware that we don’t need. It’s welfare. If we could just be honest, say “wow we are paying a lot of money to pay these people to do a job that doesn’t need to be done just so that they’ll have a job” we could pay *less* money to direct give those people a paycheck every week for doing nothing. But that wouldn’t make the people who own military hardware corporations obscenely wealthy. So fuck it.


goforthandconquer

He seems like a very insecure man who likes to rub elbows with important people to make himself feel like he’s somebody. He is somebody right now. The billionaires and millionaires are filling his pockets with gold


NiemollersCat

He is a millionaire


Slaphappydap

There's a scene in Billions where Axe is talking to some guy who took a major hit in the market, and he's asking him how much he's got left, and the dude says about $20 million. Axe is trying to get him to go in on a play he's planning. Axe gives this monologue about how much the guy's life is going to change now. That foundation the guy's wife is in charge of, say goodbye to that. Get rid of the yacht, that's a money pit. Lose the jet, you're flying commercial now. Etc. At the end the dude takes a beat and says, "Fuck. I'm broke."


TheWayNorth

That scene was so absurdly well done. Really showed the disconnect with regular people.


InTh3s3TryingTim3s

He's a millionaire according to someone but his entire family is apparently extremely wealthy but his primary goal in life is protecting $500k a year in coal profits. He's broke as a joke morally and spends the rest of his time soaking up the rays on his stolen goods. His entire family legacy can be summed up with "pathetic capitalist grifters obsessed with hurting people for gains that literally won't even change their life". Imagine having this much money and being this evil for a few more dollars. Petty. History will probably forget, but I won't. And I'll make damn sure my history books don't exclude my opposition. I don't have anywhere near as much to lose as a loser like Manchin or Senima. They need this power. And they're obsessed with making sure we never have any.


MangroveWarbler

> but his primary goal in life is protecting $500k a year in coal profits. If he was smart, he'd sell off his coal holdings and invest in renewable energy, biotech and tech stocks. He could be making a hell of a lot more.


Icevol

But that’s hard and takes patience and discipline.


Significant-Bat-5310

Not enough.....


GRAPES0DA

Yeah, it's never enough money for these greedy bastards. They're ravenous, blood sucking creatures always wanting more...more....MORE!!


crazypyro23

When you're a millionaire surrounded by billionaires, you're the poor one


InTh3s3TryingTim3s

Manchin and Senima are the poorest Americans that have ever existed throughout our almost entire history. They are wealthy because they are bribed to vote a certain way. But very very very very very poor.


Melody-Prisca

That's what they think, but it's simply not true. None of them are poor. None of them will go hungry. They'll never go homeless. The laws don't apply to them due to their wealth. Sure, a millionaire can't buy as much unnecessary luxuries as a billionaire, but if they think they're poor, they need to check their privilege.


2020willyb2020

Trying to become a billionaire- corrupt AF - citizens need this bill to pass and he is starving them out in the cold


zer1223

Unfortunately, if we couldn't get to 51 votes without two moles like Sinema and Manchin, there was basically never any hope of getting much done. Americans have to actually give a party (the Dems) a stronger mandate.


voodoochile78

Like when we have the Democrats 60 votes in the Senate and they played the EXACT same games to squash progressive legislation?


punch_nazis_247

yeah it's like people have no memory of Joe Lieberman doing this EXACT thing to the public option 10 (?) years ago.


zer1223

You mean when he eventually voted for ACA and didnt just kill the whole entire thing like Manchin? Did you have a point?


RosaRosaDiazDiaz

Democrats did not vote for the ACA. They voted for a watered down version that gave tons of money to the health insurance companies, and offered no public option.


punch_nazis_247

I said he killed the **public option** \- that is a government funded health insurance system. The public option that we need more than ever in this country and still don't have. It's fucked up. If we didn't have the filibuster then maybe we could have passed it anyway. As usual, if we had even a small handful of republicans that actually wanted to help people in this country, it wouldn't be as big of a deal that some Dems defect and vote against the benefit of the citizenry. However, as our government is held hostage by domestic terrorists, these small defections matter a ton.


Wowsers_

Dem leadership needs to stop giving us dogshit candidates like Sarah Gideon. And yes, you get labeled that when you lose in a blue state in a presidential election year. That takes a special kinda awful to do that.


SpaceSubmarineGunner

If you, me, and everyone else knows this guy is so completely bought out by lobbyists and his own interests, why the hell can’t the Democrats remove him from every commission he sits on?


amateur_mistake

Because Maine decided to vote for Susan Collins again. So now we need *every single democrat in the senate* to pass anything at all.


hopeandanchor

Our mistake was leaving this all up to a place that won't vote for someone unless they have lived in Maine their entire life.


crackerb59

Maine voting for her again was disheartening. If I remember correctly, she didn't win by that many votes...


catfish_dinner

Except that he's obviously not a democrat.. especially not the sort of democrat who should enjoy a leadership position.


kenlubin

Do you want the Democrats to pass any legislation at all in the next 3 years? Yes? Then you have to buy Joe Manchin's support.


EdgeOfWetness

We are one petulant asshat away from Mitch McConnell running things again, thats why


Pi6

Not worth trying to psychoanalize him. Just call it what it is: corruption


MrLurid

"We should be giving the money to rich people. You know, the guys I work for."


cornbreadbiscuit

This exactly. And since the rich continue to buy our governments so they can serve themselves, it's no surprise record numbers are dropping out of the workforce and we're perpetually teetering on the edge of social, environmental, and economic collapse.


idisagreewithyouu

Yup


EU4ia_1444

"...and am one of." (His net worth is $5 million according to [ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Manchin_III))


Franklin_le_Tanklin

That’s it?! Jfc with those connections and donations I’d expect him to be way further ahead. What is he blowing his money on?


jibberystyleoinkery

Was he standing on the deck of his yacht while he waxed poetic about slashing social programs for those ravaged by the pandemic and further eroding America's already tattered social safety net, or did someone finally explain to him how disgusting that makes him look?


SecretAshamed2353

His state is the 3rd poorest and falls into that category in almost every metric imaginable. Edited to reflect correct meaning


terminaljive

Thank God for Mississippi.


Edspecial137

Aka the Baltimore Orioles of states


KYLO__R3N

At least the Orioles had Cal Ripken Jr. in the '80s and '90s.


MountainMan2_

Hey, Mississippi was once the richest state in the union, too! ~~ignore that it was basically controlled entirely by a half dozen cotton corporations back then and didn’t count slaves in the census~~


politicalperson6307

As a Baltimore sports fan I want to be offended by this, but I just can't be because you're right.


SecretAshamed2353

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QPe6c9cBc3E&t=396s Secular talk showing an ad by centrists about how bad he’s been for the state


guitarock

Pretty sure you mean second poorest


SecretAshamed2353

Fair point .


Normalizesteroidz

Wouldn't that be the 49th


SecretAshamed2353

I think you are right so I changed it to 3rd poorest


Wowsers_

And one of the dumbest, so free community college probably won't help there /s


brdwatchr

Another Washington fossil with a decaying brain in a 75 year old suit. Get the fuck out of the Democratic Party, Manchin, and WHY does Chuck Schumer not remove him from all of his committee assignments?? Because he is another Washington fossil that is completely useless and incompetent to do the job he is required to do!!!


Ron497

That is just one of the insane things about our government - so many of these people would have aged out (or retired) in MOST industries. Yet, here they are, deciding on the fate of 330M people. My parents are in their 70s and I barely trust having them watch my dogs when I'm out of town. I would NEVER trust them to investigate January 6th.


brdwatchr

I am laughing at your analogy about parents watching dogs in their 70's. I did that once and it was a disaster. Everyone survived but not by much. People after 70 are slow and reflexes start to decline. How can, as you say, they decide the fate of 330 million people. Honestly, I find it scary. Everything our government does today, because of dottering oldsters and white nationists in Congress is a prescription for disaster. I wonder if we will ever recover.


Wowsers_

If it makes you feel better, most of the Dem leadership in the House is well over 70 too. And Hakeem Jeffries is pretty young but very pro-corporation, so that might actually be worse.


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Ron497

Just to be clear, I have no problem with older folks! My mother is in her 70s and as sharp as I can remember. BUT, she definitely doesn't have the energy she had when she was 50 and had a job. My father definitely has started to slip a bit. Nothing against old people, but when so many MAJOR politicians are 70+, it's clear that we have a problem when they would have aged out of MOST other jobs. 70 year olds should be enjoying their time and doing something like volunteering for a cause they believe in...NOT running a nation of 330M.


Konukaame

Because it's a 50-50 Senate, and if Manchin walks or changes parties, everything dies.


brdwatchr

In my opinion someone as useless and diabolical as Manchin can jump off a cliff as far as I am concerned.


Wowsers_

And if he changes parties he's irrelevant. He's only going to run 1 more time at most anyways so maybe we should stop kissing his ass & do a better job of winning races in blue states. Winning in PA & WI means these 2 morons can kick rocks for all I care.


brdwatchr

Manchin should be stripped of all assignments. Like Marjorie Taylor Green. He should not receive the honor of leading those committees. There must be consequences. No, the problem won't be solved, but they should suffer consequences. That should mean having no influence in the Senate. Might as well not have influence helpful to West Virginia. Especially since West Virginia needs all of the benefits in Bidden's plan.


Blackadder_

Cuck Schumer always cucks


MustLovePunk

… standing on the deck of his yacht waxing poetic about slashing social programs while collecting taxpayer money and socialized benefits in the form of a 6-figure taxpayer funded salary, pension, and free health care — all while using the power of his office to get bribes from the coal industry and block his party’s agenda.


Awkward-Fudge

His constituents should throw flaming bags of dog poo at him.


Subway2

Yes while his fellow West Virginian constituents sat in their kayaks and canoes asking him questions. How sad it showed the comparison of his fancy rich life vs theirs. He and the devil woman need to get the boot. Damn Republican traitors in disguise.


tinyirishgirl

You’re wonderful.


Graphics_Nerd

"Our infistructure is crumbling, we should invest in it!" "Why tho?" - Manchin, as he counts his bribe money.


Red-Lightnlng

He still wants to pass the 1.2 trillion infrastructure bill.


atwitchyfairy

He's gonna keep lowering it. You fell for the lie.


Red-Lightnlng

It’s a separate plan. He’s the one who sponsored it, and he’s the one who convinced a few republicans to go along with it as well. The reason it hasn’t been passed is that the progressive wing won’t pass this bill if Manchin won’t also vote on the 3.5 trillion Build Back Better plan. They’re two separate pieces of legislation, one that he supports, one that he clearly does not.


JojenCopyPaste

Well the deal was that progressives vote for the $1.2 trillion, Manchin and Sinema vote for the $3.5 trillion. Progressives were right to insist on the Senate voting for the $3.5 trillion first as Manchin and Sinema clearly never had any intention of going with the deal.


SlamArson

I have a bridge for sale that you would be interested in.


Red-Lightnlng

I mean he’s the main sponsor of the 1.2 trillion plan. He even said in the same interview that this article is citing that he wanted to “pass the 1.2 trillion plan and then wait for 6 months” on the larger 3.5 trillion plan.


Frater_Ankara

He was ok with 3.5 trillion when it was 6 trillion


bakulu-baka

>'We Shouldn't Do It at All' Yeh, fuck the planet. We’ve got a spare. And fuck universal healthcare, who needs it? I’m very rich, you know. Poverty, homelessness, actual infrastructure? Not problems at all. Just buy a fucking yacht like I did. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ All better.


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PhoenixFire296

Maybe someone should take one of those old timey hand drills on a scuba dive with them sometime.


I_Never_Use_Slash_S

I wish we had universal healthcare right now to pay for all the unvaxxed people in the hospitals.


KYLO__R3N

I mean, we're all paying for it either way. But at least that way the cost would be lower without profit hungry exploitative fucks inflating healthcare prices a hundredfold here and a thousandfold there.


Willyroof

You mean exploitative ducks like Manchin's daughter jacking the price of EpiPens by 500% after seemingly conspiring with Pfizer to have their only competition pulled from the market?


Kenlescar

Fossil fuel drives his thinking.


Kazexmoug

Then may he be forced to drink it, since he was so willing to let others die for imagined profits


SlumdogSkillionaire

DINOs and fossils. Name a more iconic pair.


Javasteam

This is why the so-called moderates (i.e. Corporate owned Democrats) want to pass the infrastructure bill first… So they can then happily kill a bill they never liked in the first place while still getting what they wanted. Frankly the progressives should kill both bills given how much Manchin and Sinema like the infrastructure bill rather than let them think negotiation and compromise only happens with the GOP.


Commercial_Ad_1450

I agree. All or nothing. Kill the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and hang it rightfully around the necks of the two Senate “Democrats”


gotridofsubs

"it's Manchin's fault that I didn't vote to fix roads" is an exceptionally petty point to have to make to people to win them over


Javasteam

The infrastructure bill is extremely lacking. In order to be bipartisan, it was a wishlist of GOP preferred projects with most Democrat priorities extremely scaled back or removed all together. Might as well call it the US Toll Road Initiative.


hackingdreams

"Whelp, I'm out of ways to attack it piecemeal, now time to take out the whole thing." Honestly, we knew it was coming. It was the point from literally the very beginning. Tie up the legislature arguing over something they'd literally never be able to pass, that way they can't pass anything else either. It's the perfect Win-Win for obstructionists refusing to actually run this country. The ***entire Senate*** deserves to be fired and replaced. The only consequential piece of legislation they've managed to pass in a decade was a trillion dollar tax cut for billionaires. How disgustingly pathetic.


TheAmazingThanos

It's long past time to abolish the senate.


CaptZurn

He’s compromised and it’s starting to show.


legsuptothere

Captain understatement


KYLO__R3N

I heard "Compromised" is the name of his yacht.


JohnMullowneyTax

it pays better to burn the place down than try to build trust


idisagreewithyouu

That was his whole point all along. To kill it.


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steve1186

Wouldn’t that allow the Republican governor of WV to appoint a GOP Senator replacement? Then we’re back with majority leader Mitch


Terraneaux

Technically WV has a law that says the replacement has to be from the same party.


crazypyro23

Which in turn should motivate voters for midterms. Democrats with a majority not getting anything done creates disillusionment and apathy (especially for people that aren't digging into the reasons why things aren't getting done). Democrats losing the majority because of a very visible turncoat bringing Moscow Mitch back into power will piss off voters and get them voting.


GadreelsSword

And when I said Manchin is actually a Republican, who ran as a democrat I got downvoted.


idisagreewithyouu

This sub is filled with smart people who know their politics. It's also filled with people who know things are bad enough but like to bury their head in the sand over it. There have been some really amazing comments in here in the last 2 years that I've observed. People who genuinely care about social programs, human rights, workers rights and a living wage. But the instant you criticize a Democrat politician for acting like a republican people take out their shovel and bury their heads again. Why? There are bad actors on both sides (omg I said it, the magic downvote phrase!) And we should hold them all accountable. No matter what party. And yes I'm fully aware that one is more corrupt corrupt the other. Yet here we sit...deadlocked by two of "our own"‽ Democrat politicians have taken donor money too. Democrats have stood in the way of real change too. It's all bad and we need a do over.


McNinja_MD

>There are bad actors on both sides (omg I said it, the magic downvote phrase!) The thing is, "there are bad actors on both sides" isn't a magic downvote phrase, because it acknowledges an unfortunate reality and includes room for nuance. "Both sides are the same" is a magic downvote phrase because it's lazy, inaccurate, and frequently disingenuous.


xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme

Some idiots see any critique of democrats as being "both sides are the same" because they are incapable of understanding nuance. I feel like every time I say the Democrats need to improve online, someone just has to butt in with "both sides." Doesn't matter that I'm an elected member of my town's Democratic Town Committee, any suggestion that we can do better is somehow me trying to help the Republicans.


_tx

Probably because he isn't. He is still voting to approve liberal judges. He is still keeping the committees ran by democrats. I wish Manchin was more like Bernie, but I'm glad he's at least not a second Capito Manchin is not liberal, but he's sure as fuck not republican either. In the American window he's center left. From a more global perspective, center right. The average American republican senator is pretty far right now though. If you want to say that Manchin is a 70s era Republican, that's probably fair


TheAmazingThanos

Confirming judges is literally the bare minimum, which should be done fairly no matter who which party is in office. You're happy with the bare minimum? Manchin parrots republican talking points while blocking democrats' agenda. What do you call that? I call that a republican. He's basically a "nice republican" who won't be a total piece of shit on judge appointments. >In the American window he's center left. From a more global perspective, center right. The average American republican senator is pretty far right now though. Manchin is not center-left in any reasonable system. Maybe compared to Hitler or Mussolini he's center-left, but Manchin is a conservative.


Red-Lightnlng

He also parroted Democratic points and voted against every Republican bill when republicans had the majority during the Trump years. You’re viewpoint is a bit shortsighted. Manchin isn’t liberal, but he isn’t a Republican, and he’s 100% better than the actual Republican that would replace him if he wasn’t in office giving us a bare majority.


TheAmazingThanos

He's slightly better than a Republican, which is why I called him a "nice Republican" since the modern GOP is absolutely batshit. I'll give him props for preventing the ACA repeal, but he's still bought and paid for by fossil fuels companies to continue destroying the planet. And he's blocking voting rights on top of that.


chicofaraby

>In the American window he's center left. No, that's absurd. There is no situation where Manchin is in any way "left." Not even when you completely ignore the left.


Konukaame

Manchin is a 90's Republican. Modern Republicans are an openly fascist party, and while he's certainly a follower of the appeasement model, he's not there.


Constant-Pay8406

Watching the entire Biden agenda go down in flames is inexpressibly depressing.


RevWaldo

Some men are alive simply because it is against the law to kill them. - E. W. Howe


Lochstar

I just don’t see how we ever make any progress when it’s so blatantly obvious that one man get simply get bought off and he’s more powerful than the President. Our government is broken irrevocably.


supergreen26

I hate to say it, but Dems should cut a deal with Manchin & Sinema to suspend the filibuster to pass the the Voting Roghts bills in exchange for passing the Infrastructure bill and dropping the BBB bill (for now). 2 out of 3 ain't bad and the Voting Rights bills give them a chance to hold or expand thier majorities in both Houses. If we can't get past the two ConservaDems, we need more/better Democrats in Congress.


Theonlyfudge

Why would they cut that deal? Manchin and Sinema literally have all the leverage anyway


McNinja_MD

Yeah, this is what I was going to say. All they have to do to get what they want is vote against the bill. They'll see no consequences for it.


KingDikhead

I don't believe for one single, solitary second they'd actually do that if the Dems kowtowed to them. I trust Manchin and Sinema as far as I can throw them and I have a borderline comical lack of upper body strength.


sthlmsoul

100% agree. Voting right act is by far the most important. We may not have another chance in a long time to stop the purposeful erosion of democracy instigated by the GQP.


Mean_Freedom_1872

Neither side is willing to make that deal though.


legsuptothere

I agree. Get rid of the filibuster, it would be possible to pass future legislation, for once


NiemollersCat

The filibuster is going away the first time the GOP takes control and it's in the way. Might as well get rid of it now and get some bills passed.


epicstruggle

Senate Democrats have the power to strip him of all committee roles and make him next to useless. Which he is anyways. People need to flood Democrat Senate lines with angry calls asking for Manchin to be demoted as much as possible.


yogfthagen

If Manchin switches party, control of the Senate switches, too.


So-_-It-_-Goes

Playing scared is why they always lose.


SergeantRegular

No, playing **weak** is why they always lose. Manchin isn't in one of those positions, he's in an *extremely* well reinforced niche. The only **possible** leverage the left-of-Manchin Democrats have over him that I can think of would be via investigations or depositions over he and his kids shadier business deals. But, you also run the risk of him just taking the ball and going home. This would give power to McConnell, even if just for a little bit, and that's fucking *dangerous.* Honestly, we need to figure out what Manchin **will** allow, and go with as much of it as we can. We need to deal with the reality on the ground right now. We're not taking **any** issues further left than Joe Manchin is willing to go. But we *can* take **a lot** of issues that far left. And he's still actually further left than we are right now, and he's still damn further to the left than any Republican is willing to go. Yeah, he's not as far as Bernie or AOC or Warren or Yang, and he's not even Progressive. But he's in the **correct direction** and we have to use the opportunity to set up the framework for further leftward expansion and restrict further rightward movement. We might not be able to pull the support from fossil fuels under his watch, but we can build the laws to do it later. It's not ideal, but we have to work with what we have. In-party bickering and fighting over what is and what should be is exactly what Russia and the Republicans want.


RedditOfUnusualSize

This. This. This. This. This. This. This. Every once in a while, people get really hung up on one historical example, and try to shoehorn everything into that historical example. At the turn of the century, every time you turned on *Meet the Press*, you'd get a steady drumbeat about Munich, and how we needed to avoid appeasing this or that person. "Avoiding Munich" contributed to getting us into Iraq, and Libya, and just about every foreign intervention we undertook for 15 years. And the 2008-2009 Congressional term has become the Munich of the Democratic base, and it's getting both harder, and ever-more urgent, to push back on the idea that our situation today is *very* different from 2008, and because it's different, different tactics and indeed psychology is necessary. The Munich equivalent is that the institutional Democratic Party always rolls over and surrenders, and that's our problem. That's not the problem today. In 2008, the Democratic Party had 60 votes. Any time it wanted to abolish the filibuster, or push through legislation on a party-line vote, it could have. The problem then was that *the party didn't want to do that.* It was then filled with people who were convinced that they could negotiate in good faith with Republicans, and that all that was required was tinkering with policies at the margins. In this, they were very wrong, but it convinced them that they didn't have to take extreme measures. Neither of those assumptions are held by the overwhelming majority of Democrats today, and a lack of will is, therefore, not our problem. Our problem is that we have some of the narrowest majorities that can still count as majorities, and effectively two Senators who see it as in their interests to triangulate against the party. The house currently has a *three* seat majority, and literally cannot get a majority if either of their current octogenarians can't get out of bed that day. The problem today isn't a lack of will; it's a lack of numbers. If the Democrats had a 53 seat majority, nobody would care what Sinema or Manchin thought, and it would be Manchin backpedaling and wheeling to *preserve* the filibuster. The problems being different, the solution is also different. There are very few Democrats today whom I would say need to be primaried. What we really need are just more Democrats. And that means going out and organizing in the suburbs, generating turnout, and forcing the Republicans to defend every last patch of ground. The upcoming Senate map could easily work out to a two-or-three seat pickup for Dems in the Senate, but it won't happen if Democrats get disheartened and just give up. Squeezing blood out of stones is hard, but in this case, it can be done, and it's the only way to deal with Manchin and Sinema.


Goge97

I agree 100%.


thedude0425

And what changes? Nothing, really.


Konukaame

Nonstop bullshit "investigations" led by Moscow Mitch.


epicstruggle

Do you want someone as corrupt as Manchin in the Democrat party?


Zooboss

I think it's also important that, if a Supreme Court Justice passes away, Biden can appoint a new judge instead of McConnel saying no confirmations will happen


politicalperson6307

I want Democrats to be able to set the agenda and approve executive and judicial appointments. That's the priority to me.


Torden5410

If Manchin stops caucusing with Dems then he relinquishes all of his power. At worst Manchin will "leave" the Dem party and become an independent, but he's still going to caucus with them so that he remains that lynchpin 50th vote. That's what will keep the money coming in. If his vote isn't pivotal then there's less reason to keep stuffing him with cash. I think Sinema is the more likely one to ever leave the Dem party and caucus with Republicans. She's power tripping and seems to be operating entirely by ego, which means she's more likely to do something cruel motivated solely by spite.


Appropriate-Idea5281

Put in 500 million worth of pork for WV and let him vote that down. Greed is king


Torden5410

All the pork he cares about is already in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Plan. The only reason "negotiations" are still even happening is because he *does* care about the BIP but the progressives held the line to vote it down unless a reconciliation deal is passed. The BIP is a poisoned pile of shit initially designed to undermine and kill the reconciliation deal, but I guess Manchin couldn't resist putting too many gifts for himself in there and now he's pretty attached to it. Otherwise I'm sure he probably wouldn't have hesitated to sink both infrastructure plans by now.


deblazepyrography

God damn, what a greedy asshole.


DontStepOnMyFunk

The media obsession with Joe Manchin is totally irrelevant, even if Democrats caved to every single one of his demands, Sinema will still vote it down, she is 100% a Republican plant doing exactly what she was hired to do.


JamesRyanQnsNYC

Manchin needs to go.


Red-Lightnlng

Go where? If he gets replaced, it’ll be with a Republican, who will be at the very least just as bad, if not way way worse. At least Manchin will vote against Republican bills when they have a majority.


MilksteakConnoisseur

Just kill the BIF


Wasteland_Mystic

I just want to see a few short years in my lifetime where Reich-wingers aren't in a position of power to obstruct everything that would actually help the people of this country. Sure you can blame Manchin but he is one of two in the DNC that is voting against this while EVERY SINGLE member of the RNC/GOP has been actively working, for as long as I've been alive, on lining their own pockets with gold, helping the rich get richer and giving a middle finger to the rest of us.


Historical-Ad4794

Fuck him Entirely coal baron bastard


deVichiers2021

Actually Democrats should have done it while they had the chance, before there's *nothing* left. Republicans only seem interested in waving 'God and country!' in your face, while their other hand is in your pocket and their accountants ferret tax havens for the spoils. You tell Republicans, their kind of 'unfettered economic growth' is unsustainable, and they wheel about and self-righteously hiss, 'so is incessantly raising the debt ceiling!', until it's their turn to do it. Now *this*; Manchin and the other one. On some kind of self-appointed crusade, as if there's all the time in the world to set things aright and force "common ground" in the face of unquenchable greed and hope crippling ignorance. --The needs of the few, will never outstrip the needs of the *many,* howsoever those two **monumental fools** mean to justify their respective actions.


mccartyparty

Can we stop calling this asshole a Democrat?


Mrhorrendous

"OK Senator, so who do you want to continue to allow to die? Hungry children? Elderly people who need teeth? People who can't afford your daughters epipens? The people living in the smog of your coal powerplants?". The fact that nobody asks him this baffles me.


Ron497

Wait, he has an evil daughter? How nice! As a relatively new parent, my life has gotten very simple in the past few years: be a decent person so my kids (friends, classmates' parents, siblings etc.) can emulate a Golden Rule follower &...don't raise my children to be assholes.


Kazexmoug

Then he should lose everything and face the masses he's deliberately screwed over. People are not serfs or slaves to his fucked up ego


williams1753

But we are


Pavlovs_Human

The new Mitch McConnell.


itemNineExists

Misleading headline. It's just an analysis the hissy fit he threw the other day.


eric_reddit

This is the guy that lets his house rot and fall down around him. Literally (not, he probably takes care of himself) and figuratively ... You know, the entire country and all his constituents.


baconcheeseburgarian

Why can't we find 2 vulnerable Republicans that are just as hard up for donations to flip and move on from Manchin and Synema? Mitt Romney could have been President if he was a Democrat. We dont care about his religion like Republicans do. We should try to flip the people who are already being pushed out of their party because they failed the Trump Purity Test.


Doodledoood

He’s a freakin mole! A republican acting as a democrat to foil them. This is fraud.


Red-Lightnlng

I mean his state votes 70-30 for republicans, if he wasn’t in office, his replacement would be an actual Republican. I’m just counting myself lucky that he at least voted against Republican bills when they had the majority. As bad as he is, he could be worse.


Successful-Engine623

What a piece of human garbage….scratch that he is the entire dump truck of human garbage


Magranite

Another fossil wanting media attention. Just because he calls himself a Democrat doesn’t mean he is one. Last time I checked titles are based on actions. Call him what he is, a Republican, no matter how much he denies it. It would be great if interviewers would start with “Republican Manchin…”


Red-Lightnlng

If he’s a republicans, we lose control of the senate, we can’t confirm judges, we can’t set the agenda, we lose all of the tiny bit of power we currently have. I’m gunna keep calling him a democrat if that’s ok with you.


cucked_by_bff

Ok ya know what. Let the fucking bill fail. Let it fail. Put it allll on Sinema, Manchin and the rest of the fake democrats. Then kick them the fuck out. And then let Biden wrap this shit under national security and secure the funding. Enough. The planet will be nearly uninhabitable for ALL of us if we don’t. Draw a god damned line democrats.


EnigoBongtoya

He's a fucking Dictator right now being one of the only few people holding true progress up. Democracy didn't die in the dark, it died taking money from Corporations raining into their bank accounts.


Red-Lightnlng

You don’t know how the senate works I guess. 52 people are blocking our agenda, not 2. We conveniently like to forget that there’s half the senate voting against us as well. He has power because he’s the most right-wing democrat from our party, but if he wasn’t in office we wouldn’t have the majority at all. Would you rather an actual Republican replace him??


EnigoBongtoya

I already know half the side is against it. I know exactly how it works. I don't trust anyone with an R next to their name, never did, they've done nothing but wreck my State up. I would rather hope more progressive runners come up and win over him and Sinema as well. Hell as it is I find very few that actually should be in politics because they aren't working for the people that elected them.


penguished

We should give way more than that to the military, with no taxpayer feedback though, right? Manchin is a joke.


YuleNeverSeeMeComing

Fuck this piece of shit


Fonsiloco

He is a Dino, plain and simple, undercover Republican. Democratic Party should drop his ass cause he is not a Democrat


8to24

I am more concerned about Sinema at this point. At least Manchin has agreed to something. His top line number is $1.5T which is dramatically lower but at least Manchin is acknowledging there is something he'll vote for. Sinema has yet to provide a number or acknowledge there is anything she will support. Seems to me Democrats will negotiate to a deal with Manchin that comes I. Just under $2T just to see Sinema say no and the whole process will begin again.


T_S_Venture

You act like one Dem (who is literally paid more by the fossil fuel industry than he is by the government) cutting the bill in half isnt a big deal...


8to24

No, Manchin is a huge piece shit. My point was that whatever turd Manchin polishes up Sinema will rub shit on..


9192631770_Hz

The original number came out of nowhere. It was an arbitrary target. That’s one of the problems here. A bunch of idiots started spewing ridiculously large numbers *before* thinking about whether or not there were 50 votes for them—and anyone paying attention before this year could have told you Manchin would never go for multiple trillions—and that stuck in everyone’s consciousness…and now $1.5 trillion is “too little”. Just six years ago Hillary had a $275 billion infrastructure plan and that was, of course, blasted as reckless spending by conservatives. The bipartisan bill that’s sitting on Pelosi’s desk is $1 trillion. It’s actually a win, as would be a $1.5 trillion soft infrastructure bill, but no one will get out of the way because they want $3.5 billion, $6 billion, $9 billion, infinite spending by eliminating the concept of money…


chicofaraby

It turns out that figures for 10 years of spending are larger than figures for one year of spending.


9192631770_Hz

My mistake, Hillary’s plan wasn’t ten years. Your mistake, Hillary’s plan was five years. So still, $0.55 trillion vs $1.5 trillion.


TitsMonkey9000

We spend 10T per decade for our military spending, and no one even bats an eye, in fact we give them more than they ask for at times. Most of that budget is wasted anyway. That's fairly blatant inconsistency (read: dishonesty) on part of the deficit-hawks. 1.5T "bipartisan" bill is bread crumbs in terms of substance (woefully insufficient on climate) and contains far too many corporate hand outs. It should be voted down, the onus to fall in line is on the two senators, when they're obstructing they're own party, and the needs of the American people. The build back better 3.5T bill contains numerous provisions that are truly bipartisan, polling favorably among right and left voters across the U.S. Costs will be record recouped via tax reforms that will only impact the richest among us (they'll be fine). Not to mention avoiding the ultimate cost, the existential one that's climate change.


9192631770_Hz

I completely agree with you about the military budget. The problem is that doesn’t matter in terms of getting some sort of win on the infrastructure bills. My main issue is that even a $1.5 trillion bill could have been sold as a win, helping to secure enough better Democrats in 2022 to then pass the rest and more. However, because the stupidity of throwing out such large numbers before realizing they wouldn’t pass means $1.5 trillion is viewed as a loss. Infrastructure has been underfunded for *decades*. The programs in BBB also have been underfunded for decades or never funded at all. To think that one miracle bill that contains everything for every interest group for ten years—with the barest of minimums in a Senate that includes Manchin (who isn’t surprising anyone who actually knew anything about him prior to this year)—was the solution to reversing decades of neglect was pure idiocy, a complete lack of patience and desire for instant gratification.


avanbeek

Manchin keeps moving the goalposts too. So expect that 1.5T to become 1T if they actually manage to get it that low. At this point, we should say fuck it because Manchin and Sinema stand in the way.


protendious

I'm not on board with what Manchin's been doing, but he's actually been fairly consistent based on the summer [agreement he signed](https://static.politico.com/1e/ef/159cabd547868585f9b1a8f06388/july-28-2021.pdf) with Schumer that [Politico recently reported on.](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/30/manchin-proposed-15t-topline-number-to-schumer-this-summer-514803)


8to24

Manchin will move the goalposts from 1.5 to 1 to .8 and then Sinema will come along and say zero.


avanbeek

Which is precisely why further dialog with either of them is pointless. They already won this game so what's the fucking point. All we can do is vote for their primary challengers at this point.


LeDickeSuckeur

I’d put money on as soon as they all agree to 1.5 he reneges and says he won’t go higher than 0.5


Avidani86

Notes I made to myself some time in August. Personal belief is that the infrastructure bill and the budget bill will both fail passage. Some smaller infrastructure bill and budget bill will pass probably in total just 2.2 trillion. There's no fucking way that 3.5 trill budget and 1.2 trill infrastructure bill are going to pass and become law. Stocks will sink till December. Predictably there's going to be an investors xmas after the terrible times of September through November. Most likely an incorrect assessment.


Left_Handed_Golfer

Manchin may be a moderate but certainly not right wing by any def


Ironfist79

You can bet your ass if it was $3.5 trillion in subsidies for coal companies he'd be all for it.


CumOnMyNazistache

Someone explain to me how you’re allowed to have a conflict of interest like being a coal baron and still keep your job in the capitol?


gitrdonebob

It would be a shame if someone were to post his home address, and people felt the need to bang their pots together every night all night


d4rkwing

I’m just glad at least one media sources is calling him right wing rather than “moderate”. The 48 Senators supporting the bill are moderate. The 52 opposing it are right wing.


AthleanXGroupie

Common Dreams is a Communist site.


Monkcoon

Common dreams and jacobin are widely seen as the Fox News of the left, so take anything they say with a grain of salt unless you can verify it with something else.


sagenumen

Boat hulls and power drills are a fun combination.


VictorChristian

In 2008, liberals had the Whitehouse, House and Senate. In 2010, they lost the House and Senate and McConnell flexed his muscles. This was a whole mess of liberals just converting to republican... this was liberal complacency. Learn to live with this reality. In a way, I'm glad Manchin said this.