Someone spoke a few truths on LinkedIn today!
By - Round-Life-1108
I am the Director of a laboratory and I applied for a side position as an entry-level technologist at another lab. I got an email today saying that I didn’t meet the minimum requirements for the job. I’m licensed in my state and not many others are. What the fuck is going on with recruiters?
Imagine how little hope you'd have of getting back into a lab after a few years out for health reasons. At this point, I'm pretty much resigned to being trapped in shitty office jobs while daydreaming about projects I'll never be able to develop.
imagine being fresh out of uni, or even just a few years experience.
imagine not getting a job after a 2nd interview with a company that is looking for someone with a minimum requirement associates for a particular major and having a masters degree in that major..
>imagine being fresh out of uni
\*laughs nervously about to graduate with a now useless major I was advised to take as \_\_\_ major was 'impractical' and would be 'impossible' for me to do\*
Can confirm. After college I worked at best buy with someone who previously did lab work. They took a hiatus for reasons and couldn't find a new lab job after that.
Recruiters are idiots that can't get real jobs, OP
I'm a Product Designer for a premium furniture brand. I applied for a part time position for a drafter(people who make drawings) at a sub optimal furniture brand and got rejected because I didn't meet their "requirements". It was fucking weird because I was willing to work the hours they posted and at their pay so the only way they could've rejected was through my work experience/skills.
I have absolutely no clue what is going on with ATS today.
Part of me wants to think that we’re now too experienced for these jobs and they don’t wanna pay or think we’ll be too expensive but in truth I think it’s a crapshoot whether your resume is even looked at
Agreed. Even if it was because we're too experienced it should be policy to have the system send out an automated email stating that they didn't move forward with us. I'm fine with that. But I highly doubt the resumes are even making past the first filter. They are looking for a unicorn for an entry level role but they are never going to get one
They need the busy work
I said something similar in another post but, I really feel like this is giving someone power and it corrupting them. Karen/Ken get to hold the prospect of food and shelter over someone AND get to say that they're doing it for the benefit of the company, the more vetting, the better.
The interview for one of my most successful and long tenured jobs was over beer and pizza. My work experience spoke for itself, and they wanted to gauge my personality in a casual environment. My current job was a 15 minute interview over zoom with us both in t-shirts with a exec.
If I was expected to wear a suit, do a presentation, multiple interviews and all the other BS neither company would ever get me on the payroll. I’m offering my hard-earned services and knowledge in exchange for money, I am not joining a culture, a family or any other bullshit. I am not a unicorn, because I’m only human - I don’t expect the person interviewing me to be perfect either.
Yeah, this exactly. I'm fortunate to be at a place in my career now that I can be entirely casual all the time, and if that's not good enough for a client - bye! The folks that hire me keep me forever, so I am starting to get really selective of who I'll take on.
Yes! My management got pissed when I told them I had no loyalty to this company beyond my work ethic and professionalism. My skills are 100% for sale.
Same, my best and favorite job was done over a beer with minimal tape and judgement of my skills. Resume and background spoke for me. It was about culture and fit.
I am the tech lead at my current company. I get to do the interviews and be a part of the hiring process for new devs and such.
We never make our candidates jump through hoops. The other lead (non-technical) talks a bit through LinkedIn with the candidates, then sends them my way for a phone interview where I gauge their technical knowledge in the technologies we use. It’s mostly just me asking them about their daily routine at their current job, asking about their past experience and talking about our company and what types of technology we use.
The only times a candidate got discarded were when they either a) didn’t reply to my text message asking for a phone talk b) had basically 0 experience in all of our technologies (and weren’t going for an entry-level position) or c) asked for a big salary that was way over their experience’s level.
We have a very strict salary table that we follow and folks can get raises and such before getting a promotion. We won’t hire a Junior dev and pay them more than our current Junior devs - that would be unfair to our own.
They're not holding on to their hiring processes, they're refusing to raise salaries and people have finally had enough of their shit, in addition to having issues getting childcare during the day, so they're not taking jobs. Employers are used to telling people how it will be and having compliant employees. Now a lot of people are in a bind and NEED better pay and/or more flexible hours or work from home options, and employers are so arrogant and used to calling the shots that they haven't yet adjusted, if they ever will.
I would just add to this that people finally realized that they don't have to put up with the bullshit office drama and can work from home with no productivity loss. Not in every place, but in many many places it has become a reality. And now mid management has no one to micromanage.
Well that applies to corp/office jobs.
For other type of jobs, well yes its about salaries being so low. I just interviewed a dude 5 years older than me that works in another company for less than half. WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT
Exactly. Companies are too used to having their way, and now for ten seconds they're not and they're panicking. It's kind of pathetic.
It needs to be more pathetic. We have been crushed by management dangling "You can always find another job if this one distresses you so much!" over our heads.
The Workers Control The Means Of Production.
We have forgotten that/had it beaten out of us.
¿Por que no los dos?
Obnoxious hiring processes still exist *and* people are unwilling (or unable) to make accommodations employers insist are necessary to work for them.
It's not always even about salaries. Few weeks ago i wrote [longer comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eesti/comments/prrj7e/-/hdoxw6e) into similar thread in local subreddit, but sadly it's **not** in English. TLDR was that recruitment processes are not transparent meaning potential applicants have no way to know if the jobs suits them and if they *really* fit the job. Lack of original variety between different postings results in all job listings having same generic requirements no-one could fill. When stereotypical computer nerd sees junior position offer, which requires decade of managerial experience and excellent communication skills, then they would probably skip. Why do companies tell all candidates they've found someone better and then repost same listing next week? Little more transparency on that matter.
Now i have seen bit of corporate side of recruitment. Team manager is trying to fill 4-6 positions for 2-3 different roles at the same time while HR has allocated them just one or rarely two job postings. Posting itself will be published among dozens of other adverts from same corporation on first day of month and have only minimal originality in its title, which causes posting to sink into 8th page of job listings, where no-one sees it.
Regarding job reposting and failing to find employees in that specific corporate. They have onboarding process, which takes almost 6 months, but in the case of aforementioned farce, none of the 5 candidates were from the Europe. 2 were foreign students, but 3 hadn't even been on this continent.
PS. I'm using tech position in non-tech company as an example. I perfectly understand this comment is not fully appliable to this post.
A lot of the time they just frankly already have someone in mind and are writing out a description based on their qualifications because they HAVE to put out an opening. It's all about competing with those who already networked before you did.
I totally agree with you and mandatory publishing is incredibly common in higher level public sector positions (think vice-chancellor of some ministry), but it in such case you would be hiring the pre-selected candidate as soon as possible. It's not rational to organise yet another recruitment round nor buy content marketing articles if you already have filled the position.
I feel like I knew more about my first job going in *while in high school* than any position I've taken post-university. Sure, they all used fancy buzzwords and general terms that sound good but there rarely ever are specific, detailed tasks and expectations discussed during the process. It's maddening.
I think you’re suggesting there should be truth in job postings. I applied to a job where they had the abbreviate job posting and I only got the full job description the day I interviewed. All the real information wasn’t available to me at the time of application. It seems a little dishonest. After all, I likely would not have applied had I known more about the job.
That is exactly what I'm suggesting. It's very frustrating.
I mean. It's also possible that they're advertising open positions they don't really mean to fill. They can reduce personnel costs and also get good press/public opinion by being the victim (of their own choices).
This and those that are trying to get a job are being compared to a literal unicorn for even entry jobs. It is incredible how much of a failure these "job creators" are.
American workplaces seem to cause the country's already-perverse 'cult of the individual' thing to enter a positive feedback loop. I've mostly worked in public libraries, but even in that low-paying pink-collar field that's mostly populated by rich Stepford Wives types who take the jobs more for attention than money, all of the management- and admin-level employees are egomaniacs who act like they're keeping society from crumbling into ruin with their stupid fucking librarian careers. As such, these idiots would regularly make hiring procedures turn into over-complicated shit-shows, as if they were trying to find people for the first manned trip to Mars and not a bunch of scrubs to shelve books and do basic cashier duties for minimum wage and capped part-time schedules.
Yeah the librarians in my city have 7 years post secondary. It's wild
Same here. And they are either giving out information (via flyers) or sitting there helping people check out books. Things that could be done by a college kid or really mature high schooler. All that education and for what.
Maybe our city is different. I have seen people talking to ours.
And for that one time that I did go in and have to research something odd... and I didn't have any clue how... they were great. I can't even remember what it was for, kinda weird.
But she took me to 3 different sections of the library and I checked back with her after I found some results... and she pointed me to more resources.
They are there for if you really do need help. That was our central branch library. Our local branch only has two staffers on at any time. One helping people who can't use the self-checkout and basics. The second handling reshelving and complex inquiries.
However, ours ALSO help you find community resources and programs. They have morphed into more like guides for the city/community.
Very smart since there is so much info at our fingertips.
They need a little competition. People need to band together and innovate new ways of delivering goods and services that bypass these companies.
Build a farm direct supply line and deliver fresh goods and services at low cost and in high volume, door-to-door if need be. We don't need the big consolidated food giants. Their employees (or customers) could all walk away tomorrow and they'd be out of business and bankrupt in a month.
They could try waiting a few weeks to break what they see as a strike, but when food starts to spoil and no workers show up, they'll beg them to take the food and process it at cost (ie no profit to them). Workers should retain the profits they earn, not let the bigwig takes them.
We'll never get away from them if we continue to buy their processed foods.
Every household needs a victory garden to break them up and reduce their size. When you give them your money, you give them the power.
For real. Cost of living due to whatever metric you can imagine has gone up in the last 30 years, and wages are pretty much a horizontal line.
Can somebody please think of the doughnuts!
I need my Krispy Kreme for Christmas dammit
So, I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut. But when I can say, is that I imagine Christmas-themed Krispy Kreme donuts to have tiny little Christmas sprinkles, in the shapes of trees, snowflakes, and stockings. I don't even know if this is true, but it delights me anyway.
Krispy Kreme is hiring, be the change you wish to see
Raise the wages to a livable level and don't put a hundred question personality test in the application and I'd be glad to. Problem is they pay $14 here and only offer part time (minimum here is $13.25) and the application and interview process takes forever to get through. Same with Dunkin. Managers there make 16 an hour*. Why the fuck would anyone apply for a job where you literally can't make enough to put a roof over your head.
*Includes corporate estimated tips
It really makes you wonder what minor thing would set a large group of shoppers in to full on zombie apocalypse mode.
Donuts... definitely donuts. 🍩
Well, last year it was toilet paper and hand sanitizer.
it happened for some 45% discount on Nutella already :/
I’m going through this hell rn and I just wish I had a yes or no answer...
I applied to a unique job w a major global corp at the end of July. Had a phone screen w recruiter early August. During this call he told me the team is looking to move fast, so the hiring process will take weeks, not months. It’s a small team so only one interview w 2 hiring managers was next. My background is not typical, but that’s why I’m the perfect fit, and they agreed. About an hour or 2 after my interview, the job was reposted, but I didn’t think anything of it.
I got responses after I sent thank you emails. They enjoyed our convo and wanted to talk more. Ok great.. sounds good. I expected them to land on a final decision a week 1/2 later, but instead they reached out to tell me they need another week to work things out on their end but I’m still under consideration. Meanwhile, the job was reposted again, so now I’m thinking I’m a safe bet but maybe they’re looking for someone with and MBA? Who knows but that’s fine, I’ll wait a little longer, I guess.
A week goes by and, crickets. I followed up and said I’m being patient but just know I’m still interested. The hiring manager said we’re so excited to hear that! We needed to “push final rounds back” (aka scout new candidates) another week and will reach a final decision next week (which was technically last week as of this post). This time the timeline will not change.
That was 2 weeks ago I haven’t heard back since and the job was reposted AGAIN today. Why are they so enthusiastic about me if they don’t want to hire me? I wish they’d just be upfront with me so I can move on after 2 months of this bullshit. I’m so frustrated!
> I wish they’d just be upfront with me so I can move on after 2 months of this bullshit.
In their own way they have. It's been 2 months. You're not their first choice and you're not getting paid to warm the bench while they decide. It's really shitty of them and I'm sorry, but time to move on.
Op should just move on. Never stop interviewing just because you "felt" a connection or enthusiasm...
Move on. Been in your shoes twice in the last two months. Your shoes are covered in shit, trust me, you're walking in a sea of shit.
Check my post history on /r/recruitinghell.
They're just wasting your time. You don't want to work with them if this is how they are on the first date.
"You don't want to work with them if this is how they are on the first date."
Exactly. I applied for a job, did a phone interview and an in person one. Went great. That was a month ago. The hiring manager wants to interview "6-10 qualified candidates, which is hard to find these days." I emailed twice (once a week) to check on the progress but have decided to let it go.
I think they're looking for a unicorn and if it takes them this long to make a decision like this, then how slow are they going to be on business decisions? No wonder they don't know what direction to take the company. Toodle-oo!
FFS; that’s just cruel and rude.
They're 100% wasting your time and most likely won't hire you. They are keeping you hanging on to make themselves feel like they have a backup in case they can't find someone better. Or the people in the company internally can't agree. It's rude and not worth your time. Companies don't care about your time.
Perfect is the enemy of good? They're not able to deal with not perfect. This could be you dodging a bullet - it's not great having management that can't figure out things like this. If you still want the job and contact them again, ask them if they have any questions about areas where you aren't hitting their hiring target - point out that you have skills and can learn.
Some places just can't make themselves pull the trigger without multiple candidates even if the one candidate they've already met is a good one.
It's honestly kind of amazing that this is a problem considering how American employment law allows them to fire anybody they want any time they want for no reason. You may as well just hire someone and if you don't like them 100% for any reason just fire them immediately. As long as you don't put on paper you fired them because they were black there's not really much in the way of consequences
Yeah, but unemployment insurance is a thing and the rates go up and so on.
A lot of companies get around this by using contract-to-hire, at least in the engineering/manufacturing realm. They don't even have to worry about benefits for a few months while they decide if the new person is worth keeping.
Yep. And that's why I don't ever want to do a contract role. I need the benefits.
Do companies have to pay anything if their workers collect unemployment? I thought they just paid a payroll tax rain or shine that went to pay for the program
Hmm, I don't know. Now that I think about it, maybe I got it confused with workman's comp? Crap. :/
We ran into labor shortage at work and needed 2 more people in our team. But apparently there weren't any good candidates... I asked the lady in recruiting about it, and she told me that \*recruiting processes are too expensive\*. That's why they want a perfect match.
Then I asked if they think that doing 10 interview rounds is cheaper than doing 5 interview rounds and then \*maybe\* doing another 5 rounds (if the first hire gets fired).
She didn't understand at all...
It’s too expensive so we would rather do it even more by not actually hiring anyone ok makes sense?
dont waste your time with them, they are keeping you as a final resort option wasting your time
In general you should never become attached to a potential job until you actually sign the papers and our formerly hired. Just keep spamming replies and if you don't hear back don't even give it a second thought because they sure as shit aren't
Tell them that you have an offer from another company, and you really want to take the position that they have been dragging their feet making a decision on, but you have a limited time to make a decision on the tempting offer (yes, you're bluffing). If they're serious, they'll do something quickly. If not, they were wasting your time. Even if they offer you a position, update the resume and keep looking, because I have a feeling your tenure there may be short lived. In other words, move on as soon as possible.
Is it even the processes? Or did the C level fucks decide that they don’t need to backfill empty positions because everything “still works”?
Some HR has come out and said it’s the software. It filters out many people. Which works in normal times if you only want the best and not the rest. Now that labor is in short supply not so much. This particular HR person didn’t know how to disable the filters. So the firehose of applications was drops by the time it got to HR. To me that’s a process failure.
Labor really isn't in short supply, people are just tired of getting pay that won't support them.
I'm in hardware stores a lot and I can't count how many times I've heard some chud say that no one wants to work anymore. People are just sick of barely being able to afford the bare necessities in exchange for most of their waking hours.
I volunteer at a local state park in a blacksmith shop. The guy who works with me used the 'nobody wants to work' line a couple weeks ago while talking to visitors. Um, dude. You're retired, you have a pension, and you're *working* as a volunteer. Maybe having a livable income and doing something you like to do in your spare time isn't a bad thing?
fuck dude. "Back in my day I worked a well paid union job that radical socialists fought for and then retired comfortably while owning my home! Young people don't understand!"
Where did you see this quote from my father? lol
I don't want to work now and I never did before. Nobody did. That's why jobs have to pay people.
I'd tell them if they love work so much they can come by my place on the weekend and mow the grass and clean my shoes. Turns out they probably don't want to work either.
I don't mind working, I think most of us like feeling purposeful and that we're accomplishing things. The rub is the products of that labor going to people that contribute nothing to society other than owning stuff, or working jobs that feel pointless because they are.
I am responsible for a P&L statement. It makes me furious. If that’s what me and my people’s work is worth, it’s what we should be paid. I don’t mind sliding pay scales for sliding responsibility, but fuck all these low ballers reaping huge profits from the bottom.
That sounds like my mom. She's been working her whole life til this year, now she's medically disabled and she feels useless like she's not contributing to society.
Me personally, I only work for the money. Now if money wasn't an issue I'd have gone to school for robotics, electrical, and computer programming and rocket science (not sure of the specific name but researching how to create propellents for flying robots up to, and including atmospheric exit and reentry).
I'd have been trying to make iron man type suits to clean up the garbage floating around us in space and to create solar energy variants to power both the robots and Earth's people's homes/businesses.
Maybe I would have been successful in my lifetime, maybe not, I definitely would have made breakthroughs in the technology though. Unfortunately I had a single income, single parent upbringing that barely kept food on the table and an insane ego because I was so intelligent, which prevented me from achieving good grades in school so no scholarships.
So now I'm just a factory schlub because the entire planet worships currency. I wonder how many other gifted people who could have changed the world were also relegated to nameless, faceless cogs in the machines of corporate greed?
I live in mostly-blue-voting area and places like hardware stores drive away a massive percentage of potentially-talented employees by doubling and tripling down on stupid culture-war shit about masks, blue lives matter, etc... Lots of people I know would love to work in a hardware store, but aren't interested in having to talk with MAGA dipshit co-workers for 40+ hours a week. As somebody who's had the misfortune of working with those kinds of assholes at a warehouse job a while back, they *will* spend a fuckton of that time talking your fucking ear off about how liberals, women, non-whites, foreigners, etc... are ruining everything....and you can't escape it, because lots of them are like high-school bros of the owner's son or whatever.
My last job this guy I was friendly with asked how I felt about guns, when I said I'd been considering buying some he started ranting about how the liberals were burning down the major cities and that he can't be racist because his wife is Mexican.
Another thing is that people work for companies instead of being self employed because they want security. The pandemic, plus the 2008 financial collapse, have shown people that job security was only ever an illusion. So if working for a shitty company doesn't at least guarantee financial stability, what does it give me?
I had never thought of that actually. I know 2 people that used COVID to start their own small businesses. 1 is pretty much a side gig on Etsy now, but I think 1 is close to completely supporting my friend.
Part of my problem is that I don't have an entrepreneurial bone in my body. It amazes me what some people do for a living that makes a great income. For example, I have a cousin who is a motivational speaker of sorts. His area is coaching management to be more effective. He travels all over the US giving speeches and workshops, and seems to be very successful and has written some books on the subject. It's just beyond me how he builds the clout and generates the business.
This came to a head since the pandemic. The designation of essential workers based on their occupations gave them certain protections, increasing their bargaining power. It’s why service jobs like in fast food were hit the hardest and started advertising more aggressively for open positions.
And now they realize they don't have to work for poverty wages.
Isn't it awesome?
The local burger chain down the street from me closed at 8pm tonight. They're using open until 10 or 11. I was surprised. I assumed it was due to shortages. Haha, YESSS! Git em!!
I was at my local supermarket after work and the deli was closed before 5 pm on a Friday. Hadn't seen that before.
Man.. what if this is the closest we get to a general strike
>HR person didn’t know how to disable the filters.
I'm trying to imagine when I have a job again, I tell my boss that I can't finish my project because I can't figure out the software that I need to do my job. Gee what would happen to me, I wonder...
> Gee what would happen to me, I wonder...
Well they can't fire you. There's a labor shortage, you know.
I don't know how many jobs I got where they act like they're going to take a chance on hiring me, then when I get there I see how many absolute dipshits they have on staff. I know for a fact I interview pretty well; these lunkheads can't possibly be better at interviewing than me. And sure enough, I end up doing a great job and wonder why management tolerates these people (they aren't even related).
HR is the only Job where they regularly outsource one of their most important task (recruiting)
You’d think in the midst of this shit that these companies would put two in the back of the head of these godforsaken ATS systems and give every deadlocked hiring committee either a deadline mail every hiring committee a one-way ticket to gulag as punishment for their indecisiveness, and just take any warm body with the right qualifications that walks through the door, BuT mUh BuReAuCrAcY so fuck that shit. I’m continually astounded more companies haven’t folded over their inability to quit tripping over their own entitled dicks and just fucking hire people and as far as I’m concerned they can burn in hell.
It's time to ban ATS systems. The market has failed and it's time for regulations
Where I'm at a good amount of companies are just having me bypass the normal hiring process entirely by having me send in my resume to members of HR directly rather than apply to the job opening. It's been the one time in my life that recruiters have actually been useful because otherwise I wouldn't know to do that or who to send it to.
This is in an in demand field though, the hiring process for the service industry is still just as shit as it was 5 years ago if not more shit.
The last place I was at tried that and EVERYONE LEFT lmao
Honestly that’s what I think happens often. They have less employees but push them to work more and blame it on having a hard time hiring. Meanwhile they pay much less for overworking that one person than hiring someone else to help. Why would they stop if people allow the companies to do that to them
Not even jobs being reposted, i got refused for one because they found better experienced ppl, oh well, then the 2 weeks after i still found that exact job posting.. Like are you just too lazy to remove it or did ppl quit?
Edit: the job offer also keeps track of how many days passed since it was posted, the count went up since i applied.
Two weeks after my third interview with a company for a position I'd be *perfect* for and I haven't heard a peep. Just checked and they reposted the ad a week ago.
Guess I'll move on?
If there's any doubt, then there is no doubt.
I get two or three emails every month for the same job at a company on my university's jobs app. They already rejected me for the position, but they're still reposting it and have been for over a year now. It makes no sense.
I met all the qualifications listed, and they said I interviewed well, but they wanted someone with more experience. Nobody with more experience is going to work for $20/hr at an internship guys, just fucking hire someone and train them. That's what internships are supposed to be.
yep, it's been my experience. they keep reposting job, interviewing, and not hiring... must be same brain that laid ppl off cuz everybody's doin it, Man!
What ever happened to a normal conversation between employer and potential employee to see if they can come to terms with a fair wage and life goes on?
Was this also in the "firm handshake" era?
I mean, that was a real thing. And anyway, automated hiring systems aren’t even 20 years old. It’s not like it’s impossible for humans to hire other humans.
I've been privy to some of the hiring conversations at my business, and I heard some of the ridiculous reasons they weren't considering some of the candidates, but in the very next breath, they are lamenting that they can't get any of these positions filled!! But it's fine because we can always just pile more work on our already burnt out staff until we find our unicorn.
Something's got to give!
Don't leave us hanging, queen! Tell us some of the ridiculous reasons!
Okay, let me share what I can without giving away too many details:
One was leaving a job they had held for 10 years with a competitor, so they assumed there was something wrong with them. However, it is common knowledge that competitor pays less. 10 years of experience and not even an interview to find out the reason for leaving!
One didn't have much experience working with a group of people that we often work with, but they did have a lot of experience working with an adjacent group (that we also work with) that is quite similar. No interview.
One had an advanced degree in an unrelated field, but they did have a lot of experience working in a field similar to ours. They assumed they wouldn't be interested in our work. No interview.
One had a degree in our field, but most of their work history was in warehouse/retail. Prior to COVID, it was pretty hard to get into our field, so I assume that they were making ends meet until they found something. No interview.
I could maybe see skipping over these folks if you had an abundance of perfectly suited candidates, but all of the perfect candidates keep turning down the jobs. We have like 15-20% of our positions vacant, and existing employees are leaving every day. These are good candidates that should at least be given some consideration.
I'm going to post this under every post and comment I see about being overworked and the company won't hire.
Let it fail. Stop killing yourself. They see you're able to keep up with it, even if it hurts, so they think that hiring isn't urgent. Let it fail.
Yep. Depressing, enraging, and making me think that I really should try lying about what my degree is in (bio major, chem minor) for something less... intimidating, I guess, like history.
If work/life were just, those picky hiring managers would soon find themselves RIF’ed and jobless, searching for work under every rock, bridge and LinkedIn post. They’d get a taste of how it feels to be judged out for every perceived imperfection…and having to kiss the shoes covering the feet they stepped on yesterday.
Are employers justed so entitled from having a good for so long that they can't cope with the fact that times have changed?
I know it'll just be depressing and enraging, but I want to hear, too!
I think companies secretly like having less employees. Revenue might be down but profit is up.
My company cut about a third of it's work force early in the pandemic. We were all a little panicked about jobs and what not, message from management was that we all need to wear many hats. Fill in for each other. Improve efficiency. Which we actually did without impacting quality of life too much (I do more things, but I don't really work more hours Just a lot less busy work cause there's always a million things that need to get done).
Today, our revenue is about double what it was in 2019, but we have not replaced any of those jobs even though they are supposedly opened. All the fluff jobs are gone and we are fully embracing the "you get it when you get it" form of customer service. Which isn't nice, but is hella profitable.
> My company cut about a third of it's work force early in the pandemic. We were all a little panicked about jobs and what not, message from management was that we all need to wear many hats. Fill in for each other. Improve efficiency.
Ah yes, the ‘ole “lean” approach and asking employees to “lean in” with no regard to “burn-out”. It’s considered operating efficiently but reminds me of a wicked owner flogging their horse mercilessly to get it to go faster, haul more (instead of buying a 2nd or 3rd horse to help).
If you automate, they simply add more until the work doesn’t get some. At which point, they ask for ‘how you are spending your time’ and ‘what can be improved’. Sometimes, they hire a third party as a consultant with high fees instead of raising it your wages.
Other times, they might bring in a temp worker or outsource the work to a low cost country. All of it is in the pursuit of efficiency and productivity with little regard to the worker. Loyalty to the company? Why bother..
I mean, my company is pretty good. Like I said, I don't really work any more then I used to, we just ended up eliminating a lot of unnecessary tasks that had accumulated through the years. No more "busy work" to fill the time ya know, always feels like I'm doing something that actually needs to get done. Which is better then filling out a spreadsheet or doing a report that no one will read just to fill an afternoon. And I'm not gonna lie, most of the people that were laid off...I wasn't sad to see them go. Dead weight takes more effort to pull along a lot of the time. Sorry Jan from order entry. It's 2021, the fact that you're still confused by basic excel spreadsheets is your problem.
Also, everyone in the company got a $5k bonus and 10-15% raise this year so that was nice.
If I have to take another fucking aptitude test to stock shelves I'll find the company headquarters and launch my monitor through their front window.
Then they send you a Pymetrics test and call it “A short game”.
That’s what I got for my application to McDonald’s Corp.
*Image Transcription: Text*
Everyone is hiring, but no one is getting hired.
Company website have hundreds, sometimes thousands of jobs available, and they stay on there.
And get reposted, over and over.
There was an article in our local paper about how a major food distributor was cutting back on grocery, hospitality and restaurant deliveries because they have no warehouse or delivery staff.
People didn't disappear.
Millions looking for jobs.
Hiring is paralyzed because it chooses to be.
When you create a hiring process that is so involved, so intricate, so long, with so many layers, it becomes impossible to make a decision.
It seems crazy to me that employers are willing to reduce revenue, growth, sales and service because they can't let go of their interview/hiring processes.
I wonder what will happen in the fall/winter if jobs don't get filled.
Will we all be fighting over toilet paper again?
What if the donuts can't be made/delivered. I am going to be really pissed.
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cybersecurity poster here.
everyone in this sub has seen the hell of Infosec hiring processes.
it's even more frustrating on the job to see company after company, industry after industry hit with ransomware because they don't have the staff to secure their networks.
ie. colonial pipeline had empty vacancies for months. their lockdown impacted most of the east coast yet they still gaze at their navel for hiring.
I don't work in cybersecurity. The feeling I got when I've looked into is lots of companies need to hire, but they won't offer or spend on training.
So even if you run out and get certs, you are screwed without experience. So the gap in vacancies keeps getting bigger.
Also companies only want to hire people with jobs but they completely ignore the fact that I can't take all this fucking time off to interview with them!! You want me to do interviews on 4 different days, in the middle of the day, and refuse to schedule any around my lunch time, what the fuck am I supposed to tell my current job??
Fucking this right here…..
I can only speak for myself, but I'm constantly searching local jobs on Indeed just to see what is out there (because I want to leave my job really badly.... but not for less than I make now, which means endless looking), and I see some of the same jobs posted over and over.... and over and over.... and over. For over a year now. I swear no one hires, they just post jobs to post jobs. That or the jobs are so bad that everyone just keeps quitting every 2-3 months. It's baffling.
There's probably some scam involved somehow. Maybe they're getting a tax breaks cuz I can't find employees?
Bouncing ball pet store told managers after the 2008 crash to “always look like you are hiring, even when you are not” so they would rotate random job offerings at the front of the store on their hiring board.
You’d swear they needed new managers every week it was changed for each department as one example
My company’s had a position open for months because corporate won’t approve a higher wage and benefits. They *insist* it only needs to be a contract position, but don’t seem to understand that no one wants to work for $15 an hour with no benefits. Literally no one. Or that people who are willing to do it only want to do it 10-15 hours a week so they can work another job, but no they need someone who will work an “average of 30 hours a quarter” (which means they’ll work full time every other week and 10 hours here and there so it’ll balance out at the end of the quarter to 30). Why work with us when you can go work at target for that, do an arguably easier job, and get medical, dental, and 401k? Retail is feening for employees right now. There is no chance in hell someone would take our position when part time employers are scrambling right now to get people to work for them.
They literally just don’t fucking get it.
There are millions of available jobs because 90% of them underpay their workers.
I just gotta new job recently. I interviewed with 2 valet company's. One did over the phone interview and wanted a background check, motor vehicle record, and a drug test. The other did a inperson sit down interview, did and motor vehicle record and even moved my interview date up when I said I was looking for something immediate instead of a week out. Bet you can guess who I went with and have worked for a week and have enjoyed it very much. I would probably just now be getting the results of the checks back from the first company.
There are jobs everywhere but I am not going to jump through hoops and wait for how ever many years of information and the test to come back to them.
This is so accurate! This week i got an email from a company i applied for 4 months ago. They want me to resubmit the forms for background check and set up times for my references to be bothered by them.
During that time, i cleared a low level security check and 2 background checks at other companies. One of which I signed on with.
To hell with your ridiculous hiring BS!
How is this such a big problem in the USA, where there is basically no legal protection from being fired at any time?
Like as an employer, why not hire someone and if they are bad, fire them and hire someone else? There is no harm in just hiring a person "good enough" without them being "the best".
On the other hand I'm not hearing many similar complaints in Europe, where firing someone is a lot harder...
Like can someone explain this to me?
Just wanna add that I think the long notice times and worker protections in most European countries are very valuable and I wouldn't wanna miss them.
Country with a fundamental disregard for human life, especially of the poor or minority and especially if they're both. Life is cheap and employees are expendable and an endless supply during normal times
So basically worker supply is down by some margin, because people are fed up with shit conditions and now companies are complaining because they can't fill the position with someone as cheap, got it.
It's because worthless people somehow wrested control over the hiring process everywhere.
HR is sorta like the government, where the worse they are at their job, the more resources get funneled to them for results, so they just consistently get worse.
It needs to change
You gotta remember that we're a country that let Donald Fucking Trump become its president, where the most 'liberal' areas are loaded with homeless people and our 'conservative' areas are trying to bring back feudalistic rule, etc... This is a country that's loaded with toxic sociopaths and the worst of us are the ones owning/managing all of the businesses. I've witnessed hiring procedures in both the public and private sectors where the managers seem *affronted* at the very idea of having a new worker around, as if the person's very presence is going to drain away their prestige and money. In a general sense, I think the toxicity of most workplaces combined with rampant consumerism makes people nihilists who hate everybody and everything.
It's not the hiring process, it's because they don't want to pay a living wage.
I've had about 2 or 3 interviews every month since June. Yet I am in the same spot as always. I cannot really say what the problem is as they do not provide feedback all I know is I've made it to the last interview of their processes and according to all these companies they are in a hiring spree yet they all decided nope. Now I am qualified I am young and probably among the youngest in my field (realtor) but otherwise I have 4 years experience a moderate book of my own business and am looking to move up.
This is it - the whole story in one little post.
The Sheetz gas station by my house has been out of donuts for weeks now. People are upset.
Edit (as I consider the comments for a moment):
It really doesn't matter. Survival of the fittest applies here. The employers (like mine) who adapt to changing job demands will thrive. Those who starve for employees and don't adapt, will die. The businesses that take over will be built on better business models that allow flexibility and better pay.
If you're cutting back revenue anyway by downsizing to where you can staff with a bad model for recruitment and compensation... I don't see why you wouldn't invest that estimated lost revenue into employee retention/recruitment.
They'll go out of business, and more competent businesses will take over.
This is what the libertarians wanted: to show how capitalism can benefit the people. This is their chance to shine.
Honestly I'm quite impressed with people all over the world just saying "I know you can do better, so until you do I'm just going to live with my parents for a while" and sticking to it. It's like people went on strike across multiple business sectors.
Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, and that I've missed a mechanic. Obviously as the OP highlights, supply might be a problem while businesses finally get their shit together after however many decades they've just been fucking around.
Yeah these people are all ruthless bootstraps capitalists until workers tell them to fuck off. Then they go crying to the simps in Washington or cable tv to talk about how hard their lives are. Their tears are delicious
Imagine the power a general strike would have. We could make corporations and governments to fix global warming, we could get a four day work week, we could maybe make Congress do...well, anything at all. But I know that's a pipe-dream unless things get a lot worse, or a lot of people change their views on capitalism all of a sudden.
I think the main reason this one worked is because people who got laid off just went and moved in with family and then (quite sensibly) said "I'm not physically going out until virus be gone" and companies didn't listen and just kind of whined and now they're suffering.
For a general strike to work, people would have to follow that pattern more widely.
You are right, though. There's a higher level of damage people can aim for and the only tools the capitalists really have to stop it is propaganda and negotiation. What we need to do is prep people against the propaganda.
the problem is multifold
but, a bigger factor than "letting go of none-working methods" is the systematic and continued extortion of the needy and desperate for the sake of "optimizing work force cost" in the face of "stake holder earnings"
in other words. companies and the owners, managers, decision makers, are so used to pay as little as possible for workers, extort them, make them jump through hoops, and if they dont play ball, jsut get the next from the line, to the point that, when it doesnt work, they cant for the life of them change
god forbid, changing the process you might hire someone with more risk. or you might not get the bottom dollar value. you might lose out to the competition, or oyu might squander money that could have been more revenue...
sooo, nooooo, cant be done...
well, needing to shut down services due to work force shortage. well... thats different. nothing you can about that. its just the way it is. gotta protect the company...
know what I mean?
The problem with capitalism is that sometimes, you run out of other people
I think the original line was "eventually" instead of "sometimes", which is a little more ominous.
Well, some people disappeared. 😕
The limits on toilet paper and the like are already coming back. Costco just put theirs back in place.
I mean yeah. Fucking pay people
Are they keeping their job postings up so stock analysts scraping the site to get metrics think the company is still growing? Or they are seeing what the market is like, with no intent to hire?
True. Spoke with HR last week for a candidate to be proposed for two positions aka two interviews, she said no because they lost people because of multiple interview so we will have only one interview.
I've been unemployed for a year now since I quit my retail job during the pandemic. I'm 2 years out of college and have applied to hundreds, if not thousands of jobs. I'm so tired of being overlooked and being offered unpaid internships. It's like I'll never get out from under this, I have no idea what to do here.
I mean not to "explain the joke" or be the party pooper but here's why this is happening:
It's not that companies are stupid. They know they can't hire people and they know how to fix it but they actually aren't motivated to and here's why.
Big corporations live off of a cycle of abstract financial projections and investments. You could say a lot of them don't really sell products or services, but instead sell potential gains for investors in the future.
If the multi-year projections need to be changed to account for increasing wages for low-paid workers, that's going to make the potential profits smaller, and now investors are going to instead go to the competitor with the higher profit margin.
MANY many companies who ostensibly sell widget X or service Y, their whole business model is actually effectively using legal, tax, and labor loopholes to pay workers as little as possible, and make the job as foolproof as possible that a 2-year-old could do it. And then plan on having high as fuck turnover.
The other factor is the unpredictable nature of the pandemic. Companies are betting that it will end, the covid unemployment will end, covid rent relief, food stamps increases will end etc. And they will get their power back to exploit people as normal.
What's weird is, Republicans are anti-vaccine and red states have the highest rates of covid, causing shutdowns and people aren't able to go to work because of outbreaks. Yet they also hate providing any social safety net because its "socialism". They are in bed with the same big corps who are complaining about nobody working. How does that make sense?
So what happens when investors catch on? A recession?
We are already in a recession.
But…a woman told me she hired her barista on LinkedIn…they would make that up and lie…would they…? D:
Glad there are some people calling nonsense out, but it’s filled with recruiters so often times people just resort to feel good bullshit and moralizing about how things “should” be instead of living those ideals themselves.
Um... like 500,000 people did disappear... dead from Covid... people always forget about that
which is true (bit more than that), but, to be quite honest, a higher number of those must have been outside of what most jobs would consider possible workers. additionally, a number of businesses also have closed, and most importantly, in the grand scheme of things, a million in the american workforce is like less than 1%, almost close to 0.5%
and with about 9 million unemployed people, something else is going on that just plain "people disappeared and now are missing"
although, your argument is not without merit. but I strongly believe (and tried to show), that, they are not the reason for companies not being able to field their open positions.
they refuse to pay a decent wage, and they keep holding on to unrealistic (and unnecessary) expectations, and that is why they cant find people
The other thing that needs to be considered is yeah all those people died, at least a portion would have had life insurance or 401ks not fully used and would be willed to their next of kin. Probably a good portion of people that got a windfall and decided to not work anymore.
One more thing to consider is it's very well and possible that some of those people may have died anyways and be out of the work force.
In the US we lose close to 3 million people each year. Covids 500k is a close third in what usually kills people, heart disease and cancer doing 650k and 599kish respectively. So covid may have accumulated some of the heart disease and cancer deaths that would have happened.
Not to mention those that would have retired this year. So yeah we lost a small portion of the workforce, but also the extra money was a massive boon to people, anyone making the $1,000/week was making more than me working through the whole thing and I was making $21.80/hr so nowhere near minimum wage and they were making more. On top of the stimulus checks.
Alot of These people were used to minimum wage jobs so were for once having savings and less stress and learned new skills while being able to actually pay bills and get out of debt.
So new skills means they can get better jobs and savings means they can actually wait and apply to better jobs and not have to take a crappy, cheap job to fill the void. Meaning they are better rested for interviews and can pursue things they really want to do.
So honestly it's more likely that crap jobs just need to pay more and be, you know, COMPETITIVE.
This is spot on. Prior to the pandemic, when people were more focused on raising the minimum wage, the response was “get a better job”. Then the pandemic happened, people were locked down, and had time on their hands. All sorts of free job training appeared for people in affected industries, and a lot of them took the time to actually GET better jobs.
I am somewhat irritated that it usually takes a global pandemic for workers to finally get some powers over the lords like black death and this one...
Probably be easier for everyone if wealth is shared better
>they refuse to pay a decent wage
Oh, there it is!
1% = the small domino that knocks down a bigger domino, knocking down an even bigger domino... Shit hits the fan in ways that cannot be dismissed like you're trying to do.
It's a shit-nado, Randy.
The death toll from COVID-19 has surpassed 675,000 in the US alone.
It's likely around a million if you think about all the politicians engaging in fuckery like Cuomo lying about the cause of nursing home deaths to keep official counts down.
And indirect deaths, as well, when people delay going to the ER about the pain in their left arm and jaw or calling their doctor about a mysterious lump in their breast.
Or from sleep-deprived, burned-out nurses and doctors. For every additional patient an ICU nurse has to juggle (when they've already been worked to the bone), each one has a 7% higher mortality rate.
DeSantis has done 10 times the fuckery of Cuomo, but your point is well taken.
CDC has a great [Excess Deaths](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm) page that explains the situation well.
It really feels like the whole Trump thing has infected the brains of this country's ownership class, by which I mean a ton of them seem to feel entitled to continual profit and prestige without having to pay for anything, be it workers, supplies, rent, etc.. The new style of 'business' is basically (a.) start out rich, (b.) run the company that daddy/mommy gave you into the ground via self-service and mismanagement, and (c.) cry to the government for a bailout or grift the shit out of the public somehow.
Private industry out here trying to have as convoluted a hiring process as the government.
Which is weird, I was told private industry is always the most efficient...
Don’t forget it’s also about the absurdly low wages they want to pay. Last week I was at the second interview for a SaaS product manager position. Mind you he had already been up front about the “difficulties “ I would be facing (iow understaffed overworked shit show)
After wasting my time with 2 interviews, a personality test AND having me do a sample meeting review write up, this joker has the audacity to say they pay their Development PMs 45k!!!
This was a US Ohio based company. I didn’t let my anger show but I politely told him we we would be wasting each other’s time continuing the conversation.
I am working higher up in the chain I’m working at, and we are currently in need of over 40 floor workers. Everything from part time to full time.
Problem is the pay is horrible, we expect floor workers to become masters in their field and excellent at customer service. We also expect them to be available almost every day, even if they work a 40% position…
The last few months we have had several people reject the offer when told how much they’ll get paid.
I’ve told the executives that we need to increase the pay and stop expecting people in a 40% position to work 4-5 days a week. But no…
Instead we started a referral program. If I refer someone I get $150 as a bonus. Problem is almost no one want to refer they friends, because they don’t want them to have such bad working conditions 🤦♂️
Referral Program. AKA: how to lose friends.
Pretty much. My brother asked me if I could give one of his friends a recommendation to one of the store managers. My recommendation was looking for something else. Just not worth it 😅🤷♂️
My team has something like 17 open headcount. Since the past year and a half COVID, we’ve hired three people total. One of those people internally transferred. Our head count is looking to increase even more next year. I’m not sure why we are paralyzed but all of us feel the strain.
My experience with finding jobs is that HR practices are bad because HR people think you need a cookie cutter resume in order to be successful in a job rather than finding someone smart. I’ve been trying to get a job in healthcare finance and haven’t had any luck because, despite having a successful finance background, I don’t have any direct experience in the healthcare industry. Drives me nuts. They would rather take someone with less experience but one job in healthcare. Doesn’t matter if that person has less overall skills.
Truth...my company's HR routinely takes 1-2 months from when my department says we want to hire someone until their first day on the job.
In fact having an opened position on LinkedIn is a Growth Hacking strategy. For one 2w of an opened position and 100 applications you win almost 100 additional followers. So this is a known hack by LinkedIn company page administrators as applicants used to follow where they apply. Not a perfect strategy for the company as now their posts are more shown to applicants instead of real clients (yes only a representative portion of your followers see your posts). But on the other side a company on LinkedIn with solid amount of followers tends to have a better consideration by the potential clients, and higher fear by competition.
If you really want to piss off a company and its Community Manager just by some thousands of followers for few bucks and their post will be lost among fake chinese and turkish accounts with a sensible revenu fall coming from marketing department.
Yup 90% of the roles I had multiple round interviews in for the last six months and was rejected are still open and being refreshed periodically. I hope they find that perfect candidate. There isn’t a lack of people seeking employment, employers have been conditioned and content with undervaluing us. Hire people! Stop gatekeeping these opportunities!
what needed to be said for the longest time.
I mean, it’s just that a lot of workers from restaurants had enough of their bullshit
They can keep complaining that people don't want to work. But with UI benefits cut off, that's going to go the way of the dinosaur soon.
A few states ended UI early and surprise surprise, employment rates didn't improve.
Yeah, here in Missouri, it ended months ago, and wouldn't you know, Wendy's still can't find enough people to exploit.
28 states ended UI back in July. Guess what didn't happen in any of those states.
That's old school thinking. Times change.
Our offer or be destitute, is so close to the same thing, why bother.
It's not that world anymore. People are demanding better for themselves.
You guys get your donuts delivered ? The fuck state does that ?
I think they mean delivered to like a 7-11, not to your door.