T O P
Thalude_

Bees can't reach the new honey quota for the week *breaks 6 million tiny knees* F*ing mafia that's why bees are vanishing


chshcat

How many knees per bee tho? 2, 4 or 6?


Thalude_

I guess the proportional would be 3, for your usual 1. At the end it's dealers choice


FishDiscs

And the house always wins.


Nuclear_Winterfell

Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.


dinki_di

A lesson life teaches you only after it lets you fail the test.


BustinArant

Except for that time I shot him with like 500 9mm rounds. - Lone Wanderer


dabunny21689

Well isn’t that just the bee’s knees.


YesAU

Not anymore


LaminatedAirplane

Fun fact: in China they said niubee instead which is “cow’s vagina” “Isn’t that just the cow’s vagina” feels.. wrong lol


sedaition

This feels like a statement that should end with undertaker jumping off a cage


LaminatedAirplane

I am no shittymorph :( he’s too good


PlatypusTrapper

Honey bees aren’t vanishing. They’re actually growing in number. It’s the wild bees that we actually depend on that are in danger. They just don’t make honey so we ignore/kill them.


verasev

Yup. https://blog.nature.org/science/2019/08/19/focus-on-native-bees-not-honey-bees/


WalterWylderCeramics

This makes me sad!


badatmetroid

I have a friend who's vegan who doesn't eat honey for this reason. Depending on the source, the honey could be doing a ton of ecological damage.


appealtoreason00

It’s really hard to make whips that small


Arlithian

We use caterpillars in a pinch.


Small-Cactus

Not the bees knees


physicsking

NOT the bees knees!


svullenballe

And then it's the bees niece.


physicsking

That doesn't meet the bees needs.


Jwhitx

That's how bee mafia works


Kachimushi

King Leopold II of Belgium at it again


ecrw

King Beeopold II of Belgium or King Leopold II of Beelgium?


chshcat

if only bees could talk, they should take this to court. That would be a great movie


covidregret

Yeah. Maybe it could be called bee movie or something.


Head-Ad4690

That’s the dumbest title in the universe. Nobody would ever make a movie with a title that stupid.


Luk3yboy99

I think we can save it with a romance subplot. It might just work


throwawayxoxoxoxxoo

But a romance between two bees? I don't see how that would be entertaining


somerandom_melon

Who said it would be between two bees?


Papi_mangu

As long you get the bees romantic rival to be Patrick Warburton I think this movie would be a hit.


il_the_dinosaur

Patrick Warburton can truly play anything even a guy being cuckholded by his wife for a bee.


Panzerv2003

you could even put some bee puns in that, what a movie would it bee


[deleted]

We could make memes out of that, something that could maybe even rival Shrek


ReverendHobo

Wait, you mean between a bee and a human? Is- is that legal? Is that ethical?


potatobutt5

If the bee is human enough then who cares.


chshcat

Exactly! I haven't done any research on bees and I am absolutely not going to, but I'm pretty sure they're just like us. We live in a society, they live in a society, what's the difference really?


DifficultyAfraid268

Bee Live in a society


CeeJayDK

It would be bestiality. No matter how cute you phrase it (BEEstiality?) it would be super-illegal and quite un-ethical. It would be short though - bees only live between 2 and 20 weeks, depending on the season and their assigned function in the hive.


KnoWanUKnow2

Except the queen, who can live for 2-3 years. Wait, would that make it beasiality or pedophilia? Anyway, it would have to be a relationship with the queen. The males are super dumb. They are incapable of even just feeding themselves. Plus the first time that the males have sex their penis gets ripped out and they die. So their all either virgins or dead.


GenioPlaboyeSafadao

Lets just do it subtle, never confirming it, but strongly droping hints of a romance


derpbynature

Only if the bee is played by Jerry Seinfeld.


jjaystar94

It has to look like him too


The_Crimson-Knight

You like jazz?


SpeaksYourWord

Actually, it's gonna be super easy; barely an inconvenience.


Reverend_Hunter

Wowowowowow


sventhewombat

Implied interspecies romances are TIGHT!


XVUltima

According to all known laws of film making, there is no way that a title like Bee Movie would ever fly.


BiPillow

oh honey that's just the hivemind talking


bobafoott

What if we got a big 90's sitcom star like...Dave Shwimmer from friends? Hmm, maybe not him but I like the idea of getting a weird amount of star-power behind this


photoguy9813

It should be More bee us,


covidregret

Delete this before Sony sees it


photoguy9813

Too late sequel announced More Bee Us 2: More Bees With Us


Muppetude

Will there also be interspecies romance? If so, then I’m sold!


HyperboleJoe

Don't do it! https://imgur.com/gallery/LKYza


sapjastuff

What in Gods name did I just read


effa94

i did not expect a furry comic to have a anti-abortion message lmao


-LIMEXTREME-

Read part 2 its somewhere in the comments :V


effa94

oh my god, its even better. this is amazing hahaha


Spready_Unsettling

What a fucking ride. I was expecting far worse, but that was still... A ride. At least the artist stayed consistent in part 2.


ComicalExposures

Based on the replies, this is that Zootopia anti-abortion comic right?


Disbrowserbrowses

This is it, we have reached web3


ComicalExposures

Imagine how much better life would be if web3 was just Zootopia Chick Tracts instead of a nightmare of interconnected smart devices and crypto scams.


trickyd

damn, Nick's a real jerk.


bobafoott

Sounds like quite the B-movie


ScienceCommaBitches

I absolutely loathe that movie. In a world where Monsanto is exterminating bee populations worldwide, this shit casts beekeepers as the bad guys?! Every beekeeper I know loves bees. Fuck Sienfeld.


CactusHopper

I only recently even got that title. The whole stupid movie is a pun. It’s a B-movie.


plzholdmyhand

I wanna hear the other side to this argument


spklvr

There is the argument that especially in the US, they have brought in more productive honey bees that has close to eradicated native bee species. At the same time, the honey production business are very hardcore into the preservation of bees for obvious reasons. Ethically, it evens out? I'm not vegan, so I chose to eat honey either way, and from the research I've done, agave in my opinion is faaaar and beyond worse for the environment. Edit: I got a lot of up votes on this, so I would like to point out I am no expert and if this matters to you, please take the time to do your own research.


Nimyron

If we had more beekeepers, we'd probably need less productive bees because I think a beehive can produce up to 5kg of honey a year and that sounds like a lot, unless you eat honey multiple times a day, every single day.


Bosscow217

Well one keeper can have upward of 45 or even more hives, an uncle of mine does it casually on the side and he has 55 hives


colemorris1982

"casually"


ThatOneStoner

Has a "casual" 300 acre ranch with a "smaller" herd of only a few hundred cattle. Just as a side gig, you know. Little hobby material.


CutestLars

Tbf that many hives is only like, 1-2 days out of the week. Go by each hive after 3-4 days, replace the sugar water, do a swift inspection of the frames to make sure infection hasn't started. Takes around \~5 minutes per hive, much less if you're experienced. Overall, it usually takes 3-5 hours every 3-4 days to manage 50 hives. It honestly isn't that bad, and can done casually.


ThatOneStoner

Bees are a gateway drug to having a complete homestead. If you can make your own honey, you can do anything


CutestLars

Bees are very inexpensive once you buy the initial stuff for upkeep, and genuinely only nets you around 300-800 dollars per year (if you're selling \~8-12 dollars in a rural community. my experience so might differ) Bees aren't a moneymaker. If you have a bad winter, or a bad mite infestation, that can kill many of your hives and you can be lucky to break even. ​ Most people do bees as a hobby because of this. It costs a decent but not ludicrous amount of cash to start, it isn't very reliable money-wise. It's usually because people are passionate about it.


meowjinx

> If you can make your own honey, you can do anything He said honey, not money


ratcal

Fuck, that's the most inspiring quote I have read this month.


FaeryLynne

I grew up on a self sufficient working family farm. My grandparents didn't really need to buy hardly anything from the outside when I was a kid, but they slowly sold off the animals and equipment as they got older and we couldn't keep it going. Bees were the last thing Papaw got rid of because they were the easiest work for most return.


healzsham

Depending on the size of the hives, that could be a weekend activity.


Bucen

My coworker has two hives in his yard. I consider 2 a casual number. 55 seems a bit much.


rexpup

My grandpa had over 100 and he did it during the week because he was a pastor.


FaeryLynne

My Papaw had almost 200 at peak, but I grew up on a full self sufficient farm. He still had 8 when he finally had to go to the nursing home at nearly 90. Was still making the rounds to check them too.


Bruschetta003

Honey is used in a lot of products, not just food but even cosmetics too, i don't know how much of it, but i don't think the only honey we actually use it's the pure one inside glass containers


ladygrndr

And often times food honey ISN'T pure honey. The cheap plastic bear honey is often adulterated with water, high fructose corn syrup or other plant syrups, etc. Some 70% of the honey for sale in the US isn't pure bee vomit.


Eightinchnails

Do you mean like they’re labeled incorrectly? I have never seen honey bear honey that had other ingredients listed.


neish

>that sounds like a lot, unless you eat honey multiple times a day, every single day. That's how you get dia(🐝)tes


Spready_Unsettling

I don't know the exact science, but actual honey and what passes for honey products in much of the world probably have different effects on your system. Unlike the EU (strict food regulation), American made honeybees can be fed a bunch of sugar IIRC. I'm not sure you're even allowed to feed the bees pure sugar in Denmark for example. Edit: Found a (not very informative) link for the US: https://leasehoney.com/2020/12/29/sticking-to-the-standards-federal-honey-labeling-requirements/ Edit 2: I'm in a rabbit hole of honey production and beekeeping fora, from which I shan't return.


Majulath99

Why is agave worse? I thought it was native to Central America?


ErosandPragma

Agave in it's natural environment is great, everything is perfect if they are where they originally belong. But to grow it for sugar, it involves a lot of destruction of the forests and local biodiversity as well as pesticides and fertilizers to care for a monoculture crop. It's much, much healthier to just add bees to whatever other crops you are growing, and the bees make the plants produce more.


spklvr

Rain forest destruction, in short.


Daripuff

Same reason palm oil is bad


greendevil77

Harms the bat population because its harvested early for syrup as opposed to letting it go the full 7 years for tequila production.


BabyImGary

It's just corn syrup for people who like crystals


ohyesiam1234

I’m a beekeeper and this isn’t true. What’s wiping out “native” honey bees are disease (primarily varroa mites), habitat loss, and pesticides.


Bordeterre

Aren't domesticated bees partialy to blame for those diseases and habitat loss ? To reuse your example, varroa mites are native to asia, and have been spread around the world by beekeepers : [http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion\_bio/inv\_spp\_summ/varroa\_destructor.html](http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/varroa_destructor.html) About the habitat loss, is the problem a lack of nesting areas or a lack of aviable flowers ? Because i it's the latter, domesticated bees, who also use flowers, are in competition for the remaining habitats


ohyesiam1234

Yes, you could say that domesticated bees have caused some issues-especially in regard to varroa mites-the did come from Asia to the US the 1980s. There’s a distinction between commercial keepers and hobby keepers when it comes to impacts on native bees. Monoculture is a big issue just because it limits the forage. Like anything with beekeeping-it’s very very local. That’s why you get such wildly varied answers that might all be correct.


robsc_16

That's why the loss of native bees is described as "death by a thousand cuts." Competition from non-native bees, non-native diseases and pests, habitat loss, pesticides, etc. all have some role to play in native bee decline. I also think honeybees being the first bee that comes to peoples mind when thinking about "saving the bees" doesn't help either.


ohyesiam1234

I totally agree with you. There are so many other bees than honeybees. A lot are on the verge of extinction and people don’t even know about them.


Stultum1

The native bee population is being eradicated by the [Varroa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor) mite.


regimentIV

> worse for the environment This is not directed at you personally, but since you brought up the environment and many people *equate* veganism with being environmentally friendly I feel the need to say this: If you go vegan because of environmental reasons *please* concern yourself with where your food comes from. An American vegan has a vastly different carbon footprint than a European eating the exact same things. It's better for the environment to eat some locally produced organic eggs than eat avocados that are shipped around half the world and might have caused some rainforest to be destroyed for production. Cargo shipping is among the biggest contributors to global pollution. Yes, in many cases avoiding animal products is good for the environment and eating Argentinian beef as a European is much worse than eating Peruvian quinoa, but if you really want to preserve nature you should switch to local produce. Just going vegan does not automatically equate with being environmentally friendly.


Scuttling-Claws

It's a lot more complicated than that, but on the whole, shipping is a relatively small component of a products carbon footprint. My memory is about ten percent, but I can try and double check that. It's not nothing, but other things matter more. There are plenty of great reasons to eat local though, the quality is usually better, and you can get fresher food and varietals that aren't optimized for shipping, plus you get to support farmers and farmers are cool. [source ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.oregon.gov/deq/FilterDocs/PEF-FoodTransportation-ExecutiveSummary.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiyr7Gb0sP4AhUuD0QIHWznAo0QFnoECAwQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HgO-60xFj0xYfapO-n2Zt)


bigtdaddy

There was just an article the other day, it's actually worse than originally thought \*at least on a global level: [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00531-w](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00531-w) [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/21/climate-impact-of-food-miles-three-times-greater-than-previously-believed-study-finds](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/21/climate-impact-of-food-miles-three-times-greater-than-previously-believed-study-finds)


nighthawk_something

This is why I oppose “organic food”. Most organic food cannot be produced locally in Canada so basically it means that you’re supporting non sustainable crops (organic does not mean sustainable) and methods at a time when we need to be producing food


Wollffey

Well let me tell you that there's a movie just about that :)


tpghi

There is cruelty involved in some aspects of bee farming. I saw this video of them making a bee impregnate another bee by crushing it and it was pretty sad. I’m not a vegan but it definitely made me think differently about honey, I don’t think I even ate honey mustard for like two years after I saw that video. I like bees Edit: clipping, marking and instrumental insemination Long copy pasta from [this site](https://www.animal-ethics.org/exploitation-of-bees-by-humans/) which explains it: > **Clipping and marking** > Queens may often also have their wings clipped to prevent “swarming”. Swarming is a process in which the queen bee leaves the colony with many worker bees, this is the way the colony reproduces. > Clipping is often done using a “baldock cage”, this is a ring with sharp spikes on its perimeter and a mesh covering the opening of the ring.13 This is used to trap the queen in one place, her wings are then cut with a scissors. Other methods for wing clipping include using a plunger and a tube with a mesh end which the queen is held against as her wings are clipped. > The marking of queen bees is another traumatic process, as is clearly shown in [this video.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_zNImn76I8U) > Bees are forcibly held in one place while paint is applied to their bodies. They clearly dislike this, which they understand as an act of aggression, and struggle to get free. > **Instrumental insemination** > Instrumental insemination, also known as artificial insemination, is a process in which queen bees are injected with the sperm from several male bees.15 Small metal instruments are used to open the queen’s “sting chamber” and insert the syringe, which makes this experience very stressful to her. But it also causes a great amount of suffering to the male bees and their death. These animals are crushed painfully in order to extract their sperm. One website details this process as follows: > “A partial eversion is sometimes obtained by simply holding the drone by the head and thorax and teasing the abdomen. Further stimulation is usually necessary. Crush the head and thorax of the drone, holding this dorsally and ventrally. Sometimes it is also necessary to apply gentle pressure to the tip of the abdomen to stimulate the eversion.”16 > The practice of crushing a male bee can be seen [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDN5haKUts4). The bee appears to be alive for several seconds as he is being crushed as we can see that his antenna are still moving. The sperm from several dead bees is then taken and injected into another bee; this can be seen in [this video.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2cYYDG-wuLI)


ZonaiSwirls

Oh my god.


finetoafault

There are essentially two major sides that I know of. You can [watch a video by Earthling Ed](https://youtu.be/clMNw_VO1xo) (a vegan content creator) for the short version of a lot of the major "cruelty" points (only 6 minutes). The video raised a good amount of backlash from beekeepers who thought a lot of his points were either straight up inaccurate or otherwise exaggerated. (Earthling Ed does a lot of research for his videos, but obviously with industries like this and with an inherent bias, it's hard to get a full picture.) In the video, there are a few points that were contested (by my memory). The most contestable was the point that some beekeepers will let their bees die over the winter, which many beekeepers said was ridiculous. However he also touched on beekeepers taking too much honey, causing stress on bees at the end of their production cycle or requiring them to supplement the bee's diet with sugar water mixes which were less healthy for them. Many beekeepers say they only take the *excess* left behind by bees, but this point *is* harder to contest, because while many local beekeepers are kinder to their bees, it's harder to prove that *no one* and especially the larger providers, aren't taking more than they should. The last argument, and the one I fall into, is that it doesn't really matter that much. There are always excuses you can fall into when being vegan. A common conundrum is the backyard chicken. If I owned my own chicken, and treated them wonderfully, could I eat their eggs? And honestly, maybe I could morally do it. Treat them super right, occasionally leave the eggs when it would be better for their health (as modern egg laying chickens overproduced and it's bad for their body). But that pushes the inherent narrative that animals are largely useful *because* of what we can get from them, and that it's not worth owning these kinds of animals without partaking. There are always excuses if you look deep enough for them. And some of them may even be fairly morally sound, but it's a slippery slope. Today it's honey, tomorrow it's a backyard chicken, then it's locally sourced bacon. I'm exaggerating here, of course. And for the most part, one individual can measure their own abilities. I could eat honey without worrying about being tempted by something down the line. But part of my reason for going vegan is to show people that it *is* possible. That you don't need meat and dairy or really any animal product to have a good meal or a healthy life. And that animals are worth more than just what they provide for us. That said, I am not saying it's not worth going vegan if you do partake in honey or similar debatable foods (like backyard chickens). The fact is that every bit matters. Even ordering an impossible whopper occasionally helps — you're showing with your wallet where you want burger kings money to go in the future, and without the popularity of items like impossible whoppers and beyond burgers, they wouldn't be offered more than ever today! Meatless Mondays are also great, but so is just occasionally having no meat and/or no dairy with dinner. Whatever you can do is awesome! But for me, it just made sense not to muddy the argument with items that I didn't need anyway. Hope that helps, have a great day!


thedivinecomedee

There is also an argument that taking honey is theft, and thus it is morally unjustified.


Janus_Grayden

>"The fact is that every bit matters." This is what purists get too hung up on. A quote I read about zero waste really resonates here, too: >["We don't need a handful of people doing zero waste perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly."](https://twitter.com/zerowastechef/status/1098682500237254656?lang=en) Encouraging people to even just reduce the amount of meat in their diet and to make more conscientious choices about where they get their food will go a *long* way.


LJHalfbreed

How's that saying go? "Don't let perfect become the enemy of good"?


NewbornMuse

Vegans tend to be "purists" because it's a moral stance, and everyone is a purist in that. I am convinced that it's immoral to harm animals for our pleasure, so I don't eat beef. No, not even on my birthday or on christmas. A lot of people are "purists" when it comes to morals. How about a *little* breaking and entering just to buy myself something nice? No? How about I poison the water supply of my city just a tiny bit for fun, just every once in a while? A little drowning kitties because I can? Shoot up a school once in a decade to blow off some steam? I bet anyone reading this is pretty much a "purist" about those, and wouldn't really accept someone only "reducing" the amount of poison they put in the water supply. Abe Lincoln didn't want people to be "reducitarians" about their slave ownership.


WebpackIsBuilding

There are certainly people that demand deontological purism, but more often the issue is motivation, not action. Veganism is a philosophical stance that it is morally wrong to cause unnecessary harm to any being capable of suffering. If you agree with that stance and are imperfectly adhering to it, then you're an ally. I trust that you're doing your best, as long as you truly align with the morals of the issue. If you are 100% plant-based in your diet, but you do _not_ adhere to a vegan philosophy, then you are a liability. Your actions are admirable, but they're a by-product and as such are unreliable. E.g., if you go "vegan" for your health, and then later decide that you believe meat to be healthy, you will start eating meat again. A lot of "imperfect" plant-based fads fit into that category.


WebpackIsBuilding

Good info, but to add on; > beekeepers say they only take the excess left behind by bees Ask those same beekeepers if they provide sugar water to supplement the hives. They do. "Excess" is a huge misnomer. You also didn't touch on what I think is the most damning issue; Honey bees live 4-6 months when their hive is well stocked with honey. However, they will literally work themselves to death to accumulate that honey, reducing their lifespan to well under 2 months. If you intend to collect as much honey as possible, that means keeping the bees busy producing honey. It means literally working them to death.


Trash_Emperor

Good post man. Very well explained points and doesn’t feel biased, just informational and leaving the choice up to the reader.


OsiyoMotherFuckers

If beekeepers weren’t out there doing the math and realizing that it was more profitable to let the bees die each year and start fresh colonies, then this shouldn’t have been such a disaster for the Alaskan orchard industry. I suspect the bees were being sent to die anyway, just after they had served their purpose. https://www.ecowatch.com/bees-die-atlanta-airport.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/28/us/honeybees-died-atlanta-airport-alaska.html EDIT: on further thought, how do bee pollinated crops fit into your slippery slope argument above?


finetoafault

I actually don't know a lot about this and I'd be happy to learn more. To my understanding, a lot of crops are fairly self pollinating and are pollinated naturally and without human intervention (wild bees, wind, probably other things?). However I do believe there are some farms using managed bees. I'll have to look further into it for sure and I unfortunately don't have a great answer for you yet. For now what I can say is that a lot of issues, such as with erosion from farming, pesticides harming ecosystems, and similar concerns, are very very hard to combat, and at the end of the day all I can do is try my best. Once they come to my knowledge I can try to mitigate what I do to support the things I find intolerable, but there is always going to be a certain level of "damage" for lack of a better term that humans have to cause to live and thrive. Even if the world only lived on crops, we'd still have concerns of water usage and bug populations and other very valid concerns. Is this an excuse to make no changes to your lifestyle at all? Absolutely not! It's still important to do what you can, but it's important to recognize that there's no such thing as going "all the way". My taxes go to animal farming, my housing and electricity hurts the environment -- there's no way to be perfect. I try to do what I can to reduce the damage that is done to the environment and to animals, but there's no perfect solution and all anyone can do is try their best—and debatably all anyone *should* do is still less than that. Because yes, I *could* do better—I could live off the grid and plant my own crops! But at the end of the day, it's more about doing what you can while maintaining a quality of life that you're happy with and thriving in. Some vegans are very hardcore and I understand why they are. But I don't think it's reasonable to demand that everyone does 100% or go home. (Which is why I'm a big advocate for meatless Mondays, occasional vegan/meatless/dairy free meals, buying non dairy milk rather than cows milk—every step helps, and it's not easy for people to immediately change their life style, nor do they want to.) All that said, I'm absolutely going to research more about bee pollination with crops. It's an issue that doesn't crop up too often in questioning and so I haven't heard much about it at all.


BadBadderBadst

bzzzzzzzzzzzz


Myaltthreenate3

This is the actual other side if you don’t want to hear the strawman from op: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clMNw_VO1xo&t=27s


MakeJazzNotWarcraft

This link is ideal for actually discussing the other side.


Narcosia

Buzzzzzz, bzzzzzzz zzzzbbzzzzz! Bzzzzzbzzzzzzzzzzzzzuzzzz-buuuuzzzzzzzz? Bzz-bzzzzzubzzzzz... buzzzzzzzz!


Peter_Rodruigues

I believe it's either that "bee grinder" misunderstanding or the vegan argument that bees are slaves to the beekeeper and kept against their will to produce honey


Ellabelle_

What misunderstanding? Y’all don’t grind up the bees to make chunky honey?


Random_Gacha_addict

No you idiot. It's obviously in the comically large Mortar & Pestle, not the blender. SMH


womaneatingsomecake

No, you are thinkikg of [male chicken in the egg industry ](https://youtu.be/7uw5c5kSVr4)


SourDuck1

both were part of the same thread, if i remember correctly


I_AM_IGNIGNOTK

Such a disingenuous take


Northerleyfire

Oh I love the 'bee grinder' misunderstanding. Absolutely hilarious.


PM_ME_YOUR__BOOTY

What's that?


Northerleyfire

A vegan once tried to claim that honey was made by grinding up bees into a paste, and that the paste is honey. They posted a picture of a honey extractor and claimed it was a bee grinder.


PM_ME_YOUR__BOOTY

Hahaha, yeah, there's uninformed crazies no matter the principles..


Dorothy-Gale

I'm really glad someone asked and you're being upvoted, cause it can be a pretty interesting question! In short, because veganism is about not using animal products, and bee honey cannot be made without using animals (including injuring/killing them on occasion during the collection process), vegans tend to avoid it. There can also be some unethical practices in the industrial honey industry (as tends to happen in any industry where you're using animals to make a profit), here is a short video about it if you want to learn more: https://youtu.be/clMNw_VO1xo


Rexawrex

It was my understanding that it's not using animal products because the Animal is both exploited for their labour and can't consent. But bees can leave if they're being mistreated, if more Honey is taken from them than its surplus then the bees die and the beekeeper has to start from scratch which they don't want to do. Also, if you can't use animal products including products using animal labour h then you shouldn't be eating any thing that comes from a flower, almonds are a huge drain on bee resources and a lot of hives do get shipped over to California to pollinate almond trees and die than your local bee keeper selling honey at the farm market


PM_ME_YOUR__BOOTY

>Also, if you can't use animal products including products using animal labour h then you shouldn't be eating any thing that comes from a flower That's not how it works, veganism is the attempt to reduce unnecessary suffering. That doesn't mean anything where any animal is involved in any form has to be avoided. All the plants require bees to pollinate them. >, almonds are a huge drain on bee resources and a lot of hives do get shipped over to California to pollinate almond trees and die than your local bee keeper selling honey at the farm market Good example, also the reason why anyone who is aware of this problem avoids almonds.


Kill-ItWithFire

An interesting argument from my vegan friend was that she wants to prevent as much animal abuse as possible but doesn‘t have the time or energy to look into every possible animal product, so she just avoids them all to be sure


BillowBrie

> bees consent because bees can leave if they're being mistreated It's difficult for them to leave because they have to literally make a new house, and older queens are not built for flying, and some beekeepers clip queens wings But on another note, do you realize how fucked up it is to say that something consents because they can build a new home and leave if they're mistreated? Imagine if we applied that to humans, or dogs, or farm animals


GraceVioletBlood4

“But bees can leave if they’re being mistreated” Unless if their wings are cut off, which is a standard practice in commercial beekeeping.


Dorothy-Gale

Yeah, like I say, it's an interesting and complex question. The idea that bees can choose to leave if they're mistreated isn't always true, and industrial bee keepers sometimes will [clip the queen's wings](https://beemission.com/blogs/news/queen-bees-and-clipped-wings) or trap her in a little cage to prevent her from leaving (usually during transport). And I've definitely seem some vegans say almonds grown with this method of pollination should not be considered vegan either, I personally don't. I think honey gets more attention because it's necessarily to exploit bees for it (either by growing it industrial or destroying their hives in the wild), whereas it's possible to find wild almonds that are fine. The kind your buy in a grocery store probably not so much.


J-dub-suede

Many bee keepers cut off queen wings so they can’t leave


BagOfBeanz

How do you feel about avocadoes? I've heard that the use of bees in their production makes them technically not-vegan, but curious what a vegans take on that would be.


Dorothy-Gale

I'm sure it depends on the vegan, like with any philosophy there are a lot of disagreements over exactly how it can be interpreted. I tend to avoid avocadoes because of the way they exploit humans (most of the ones you get from Mexico are controlled by dangerous cartels), so the bee issue is like of a moot point. I do avoid store-bought almonds for that reason though. I also have a friend in California with an avocado tree in their back yard, and I'm happy to have one of her's when I visit.


Bardsie

When a hive gets large enough, they may start to produce a second queen. The intention is when she matures, half the hive will leave with her to start a new hive, while the other half stays behind. Be farmers obviously don't want to lose half of their hive, so if they don't have space for another box, or the ability to sell her to another farm, the farmer will crush the queen larvae before she can mature. Thus, honey farming does include some amount of animal abuse.


DuelaDent52

Why not just let the bees be?


AccioSexLife

If you set them free, you get freebees.


qwertyashes

"you're still stealing their damn honey"


DasDima

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d/ this is a good writeup from a non-vegan beekeeper. "TL; DR: Beekeeping is the epitome of exploitation; it is anything but symbiotic, even though vegans can be annoying."


marip0sita

My neighbors are beekeepers and my favorite thing is when they invite me over to sit and watch their bees while they tell me fun facts about them. Such organized and intelligent little creatures!


Northerleyfire

Oh they're fascinating. My favourite insects. Even better than ants imo, cause you can get honey from them.


Outlaw_L1501

this post is incredibly offensive to me, as a bee i- oh where did my honey go


Asian_in_the_tree

*In the Age of Ancients the world was unformed, shrouded by fog. A land of gray crags, Archtrees and Everlasting Dragons. But then there was Fire and with fire came disparity. Heat and cold, life and death, and of course, light and dark. Then from the dark, They came, and found the Souls of Lords within the flame. Nito, the First of the Dead, The Witch of Izalith and her Daughters of Chaos, Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knights. And the Furtive Pygmy, so easily forgotten.* *With the strength of Lords, they challenged the Dragons. Gwyn's mighty bolts peeled apart their stone scales. The Witches weaved great firestorms. Nito unleashed a miasma of death and disease. And Seath the Scaleless betrayed his own, and the Dragons were no more.* *Thus began the Age of Fire. But soon the flames will fade and only Dark will remain. Even now there are only embers, and man sees not light, but only endless nights. And amongst the living are seen, carriers of the accursed Darksign.* *Yes, indeed. The Darksign brands the Bee. And in this land, the Bee are corralled and led to the north, where they are locked away, to await the end of the world... This is your fate.* *Only, in the ancient legends it is stated, that one day an bee shall be chosen to leave the bee asylum, in pilgrimage, to the land of ancient lords, Lordran.*


llamasatemyusername

r/unexpecteddarksouls


Thalude_

Gywmdammit can't believe I found the full intro in a bee meme


Sir-Kotok

stop quoting bee movie randomly


Asian_in_the_tree

*"Now that I am Bee, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own honey!"* \-Barry B. Benson-


Helloiamayeetman

Oh cool dark souls


WoolooOfWallStreet

🍯 🐑 Oh… was this yours?


Emergency_Aide633

Bees are the closest thing to consenting animals when it comes to using them for food, because if they want to, they can, and often do, leave a nest they've already built or set things up in, and go to a new one.


kingofcoywolves

Yeah. It's a common problem with beginner hobbyist beekeepers to have your bees just... refuse to stay in your hives lmao. They'll 100% pack up and leave if they decide it's not beneficial to stay.


ICanSee23Dimensions

Wages are low and rents are high, where are they finding new places to live? Asking for a friend.


pchlster

They have a friend who will literally give them a new house if they can't stand their roommate situation.


mschellh000

But what about the bee grinder? Where they grind bees into paste that is then turned into honey? Edit: I genuinely don’t know if you guys are getting the reference and if anyone does on this website they should be here


Northerleyfire

My favourite part of the process is listening to their little screams as they get grinded up, cackling maniacally all the while.


mschellh000

*cackles maniacally in the background*


Northerleyfire

Mwah ha ha ha ha!


mschellh000

Nyeeh hehehehehehehheejdjhfjfifjrnnfjcirnrjkdoansnvjgooelwpjdjeoqowkdbjfirkek (Don’t mind me I’m just kinda dying over here)


MJMurcott

Bees also are pessimists and produce an extreme excess of honey for a "rainy day". The loss of surplus honey doesn't impact on the health of the hive.


A-Perfect-Name

That’s also why beekeepers specifically use Honeybees for honey production, they store most of their honey. Other bee species, such as bumblebees, also produce honey, but only store a tiny amount making collection both time consuming and detrimental to the hive.


ngwoo

Well yeah if you want honey you'd use a honeybee. Bumblebees make bumble.


WoppFloppy

This made me laugh so hard I went out of my way to buy my first award for this


Gongaloon

Especially when the beekeeper makes sure that that "rainy day" never comes.


Northerleyfire

Yup. Just add some glucose syrup or baker's fondant into a feeder when there's a shortage or when it's winter.


TurielD

You're telling me there's a lifeforms that *eats* fondant... Willingly?


Northerleyfire

Bees *love* sugar. Fondant is basically all sugar.


Gongaloon

Good to know it's good for something, 'cause it sure isn't any good for cakes.


1337_H4XZ00R

r/fondanthate


superVanV1

r/fondanthate


WoolooOfWallStreet

Imagine the joy a bee must feel going into a fondant flower


TheHiddenNinja6

The beekeeper's harvest *is* the rainy day now


Grape_Jamz

We call those taxes


buddhistbulgyo

Beekeeper out there somewhere - "I am the Godfather of bees!"


AlternateSatan

So... honey is a plant based food made and sold by bees to humans.


[deleted]

technically, its all solar energy


OutsideObserver

Technically, it's all deterministic echoes of the big bang.


[deleted]

im vibrating so hard right now


AlternateSatan

In a thermal sense or a string sense?


Its0nlyRocketScience

Pretty much. We give them shelters to live in and they pay rent. The queen isn't held hostage, she's free to leave and take all the bees with her if things go wrong.


Sujjin

So isnt the whole idea f veganism that eating anything made from an animal is morally wrong? Cant the same argument they are making about Bees be said abut Cows or chickens?


Its0nlyRocketScience

The original tumblr poster, Cristin, is arguing that the point of veganism isn't to avoid eating animal products, but to avoid products that are a result of animal cruelty. With cows and chickens, they're trapped in inhumane conditions where they are unable to escape. With bees, they're able to fly away relatively easily if they're being mistreated. The queen could fly to start a new hive away from the bee keeper and take all the bees with her. Since the bees don't do this, that may indicate some amount of complacency and acceptance of the situation, not wanting to leave because the humans keep them all alive and safe and (assuming the human is smart) doesn't take too much honey, only excess that bees naturally produce in case of natural disaster or loss of flower supply, which the beekeeper can prevent by making crazy sturdy hives and providing food year round. Ive heard this argument before and think it's something to consider. Most farmed animals can't choose to leave and are in constantly horrid conditions, but bees have the means to leave their "captivity," and seem to have no reason to, which means honey is a bit different from milk or eggs


SaltSprayer

Why don't vegans eat eggs that are home grown? I have chickens but my vegan friends still wouldn't eat them. I can guarantee that these chickens are living the life! Pretty much like my dog. Unless having pets is also considered cruel? But there are vegans with pets...


King-Of-Throwaways

>Why don't vegans eat eggs that are home grown? Where do you get the chickens from? Most people with backyard hens bought them from a commercial egg farm, so by participating in that, a buyer is funding the bad stuff that happens at the farm, including the killing of male chicks. But putting that aside, there's not too much wrong with eating the eggs once you have the chicken. Some vegans might argue that it's exploitative, but for me (and many vegans) that situation would be less about the ethics and more about the weirdness of trying to eat a food that we've come to strongly associate with animal death. >Unless having pets is also considered cruel? But there are vegans with pets... That's kind of its whole own topic. Most vegans are okay with pets as long as the relationship isn't exploitative.


SaltSprayer

That makes sense. The chickens were from some local guy who was giving them away online. No idea where he got them though, I think he was just moving and had to get rid of them


Siji_

Bees will only swarm if their queen leaves. In large scale productions the queen‘s wings are often times clipped (like a third of the wing is removed to make the wings non-functional). That means the colony is essentially trapped and cannot leave. The other big issue that I am aware of is selective breeding and importing, which increases the risk of diseases spreading in large scales


[deleted]

the people in the image are wrong nearly all vegans agree that honey is not vegan


ColHannibal

I feel like some people think of the bee movie as a documentary.


qazwsxedc000999

If they were really, really upset they could just… leave. They are free to leave. But they do not


Wojtuma

I swear, Tumblr users share one braincell and it's been dead for 4.5 years. No, honey isn't vegan, they can't consent, nor can they move the hive on a whim.


Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes

I'll gladly eat bee rent. Fucking love honey. Bees know how to make some good product.


omgudontunderstand

this is cool and all but honey isn’t vegan [what is a vegan diet?](https://www.webmd.com/diet/vegan-diet-overview) [what is a vegan diet?](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vegan-diet-guide#foods-to-avoid) [what is a vegan diet?](https://foodinsight.org/basics-of-vegan-diet/) [what is a vegan diet?](https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/) [what is a vegan diet?](https://vegan.com/info/what/) (from a vegan, meaning biased, source) ETA source(s) because whew, you people do not let up.


tiny_venus

Depends on the honey! Big brands of honey- the cheaper stuff that is available in supermarkets- they’ll clip the queens wings so she physically can’t relocate the hive:( Quality beekeepers tend to treat the bees much better- the more expensive stuff unfortunately!!