Unpopular Opinion: The new food system isn't good
By - RicoSuave42069
This is a super big thread already but I’ll throw my opinion in as feedback for the devs.
I also don’t like it currently. I appreciate the thought process behind the changes, but I definitely feel like I’m constantly just low on either health or stamina, to the point where it’s not fun. I was working on the swamps today and I’m good enough to have barely died at all this playthrough. Some poison got me one time, a tree another, and that’s about it.
I died eight times today, because when I had health, I had no stamina. When I had stamina, I had no health. When I had enough stamina to keep up with my attacks so I wasn’t getting swarmed by skellies, draugr, and blobs, a small hit would destroy me because stagger is tied to HP, not stamina. So I tried going with high HP which meant nothing when I couldn’t maintain my spacing properly or swing a weapon more than once or twice. So I tried to go down the middle and, eating two items for Heath and one for stamina, and then later one for health and two for stamina, and both were a frustrating middle ground that didn’t help at all, where I didn’t have enough of either. And this is all based off of me using sausages, Queen’s jam, turnip stew, carrot stew, and cooked lox meat—all of which I can reasonably acquire by the time I get deep into swamp exploration.
If the food is working as intended, then enemy damage needs to be toned down drastically. I also feel like the difference between various foods is extremely underpowered or downright negligible. The different between carrot and turnip stew is like, what? Ten points of stamina? Absurd. They’re a biome apart and feel like they’re basically on the same level.
I like what they’re trying to do, but the changes are far too drastic. And frankly at this point bows are basically useless, they use way too much stamina to draw and don’t do enough damage to cover the cost of that stamina. You’re better off with pretty much any other weapon.
Yeah this seems like a heavy over tune of this system.. if they added a base health and stamina bump with progression like running and jumping build endurance and taking and doing damage build base health than this system wouldn't be as bad but as it stands it's not great.. before when working at home I would boar meat and be perfectly fine with getting stuff done at base... Now it just feels super annoying to get anything done.. not to mention hunting dear and boar is a chore now since u loose so much Stam from now draws
I don't feel that this will be or is an unpopular opinion. Maybe a split opinion. I've been struggling with HP/STAM all day today. I can't seem to find a good balance. Frustrating.
the problem I've notice so far is Stamina is mainly affected by berries or grown food which is tougher to farm and find. Hell you still cant farm berries can you?
Meanwhile I feel like I find about 20 things of meat just out collecting wood. They need to balance this somehow or make berry seeds a thing asap.
Yes see thats what always made me think they planned on it or intended to do it. it has crop fields with fences and everything
I built a base around one of those villages. I've got plenty of raspberries! I also have a cottage built so that a blueberry patch grows inside. It's about 15 feet away from the merchant.
On my pre-patch world (to try to find a good place to rebuild for the patch) I found one of those towns with 3 ruined houses and like 5 or 6 of those little fenced in berry areas. All I did was knock down the walls of the buildings, extend the flooring (or even lifting it and then extending it), and just build on top of the existing areas. And that became one of my early primary villages to use for storing stuff before I start doing giant builds somewhere else.
I just find it easier to find an existing village and build there, since they tend to be placed in good places for building in the first place.
I made a berry hub for portals and I hop in and out of them to rapidly get berries from all over the world. Then I light a torch back at the hub and use it as a timer for respawns.
thats a good idea and a good work around so does the torch burn out actually a good reference?
It's not exact but is pretty close. Tack on a little time for when you actually notice and its just a quick hop through the portal to double check.
Just one resin? I wanna start doing this myself
Full credit where I poached the idea from. [YOUTUBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNh8JmcY1x4)
It's 5 hrs in real life time, assuming nobody has been bear the berries during that time. So pick spots that see little player traffic. for the portals.
As for the resin, I believe so but honestly I haven't played in a couple months while I was waiting on the new patch.
Good news, in June they fixed the bug that restarted the respawn timer for berries/flint/etc if a player got within loading distance, so it is now easier to re-forage wild resources as they will regrow even if you are or have been nearby in the interim. I put a dot marker on my map with an abbreviated label whenever I find a good clustering of mushrooms/berries/thistle/whatever, so it's easy to find them again.
I noticed on a new world the raspberry patches and mushroom patches seem way more generous than previously
If you're in end game, Lox Meat Pie + Bread gives 90/90 total (75/15 and 15/75). From there you can either go blood pudding or fish wraps for 14/70 or 70/14, respectively. That'll put you at 160/104 or 104/160. You can also go for serpent stew, but at 80/5 it's only 1 more total stat than either of the two and not really worth the effort anymore.
Just keep in mind that the stamina food gives really bad hp regeneration so you're going to be more reliant on hp pots in case you fuck up and take a bad hit. Bread/pie/fish = 9 hp/s and bread/pie/pudding = 6 hp/s
This guy gets it. People love to leave out the HP/sec values as well. Those matter. Between your advice and needing to rely more on potions + mead, the game is not nearly as impossible as people are making it out to be right now. Just adapt.
That's why I said screw it I'm starting over. No worries 🐱
It's not about difficulty, it's about effort. No one wants to farm enough materials to have a constant supply of potions/mead. It's tedious.
My wife loves farming cooking ingredients. To each their own.
It doesn't take that long to grow shit, just build or explore and come back once an hour go change out crops.
I got full rooms of carrots and turnips.
You used to be able to play however you wanted. Stealthy archer? Go for it. Parry and dance? Why not. Tower shield block and smash? Do it!
Now the way you play your game is dictated by... food. Food that takes up more inventory space, and is grindy to farm/make. I don't see the merit in this.
I see alot of valid arguments but I can't comprehend people talking about food taking up more inventory, unless you mean chests. Were you not already carrying a stack of each of your 3 favorite foods?
Well, say I want to do some fighting around my new, improved tower shield. I need HP food. While im out, id like to do a little mining. Now i need stam food. I guess pick 3 and deal with it are ok for some, but efficiency is important to many.
They could have upped monster difficulty and left us our toolbox, which was however we wanted to play. Now food choices force us into roles and make other roles unsustainable. Why limit us like this? We're forced to slave in the kitchen?
I mean, who sat back after playing valheim for any amount of time and said, "I wish i could have done more berry foraging and cooking." Ok, well some masochists i'm sure but come on.
i completely agree with you, but on your last point, have you read some of the topics, especially on steam discussions? there are people that are pissed portals exist at all and rail everyone for being "casuals" when they don't want to take an hour plus boat ride in real time every time they play. I really enjoy building and exploring and the raid like boss battles, but like, some people really enjoy fucking tedium and i don't understand why that's the angle the devs are going with
I'm with you only thing that's changed is I carry 4 food now.
2 health based and 2 stamina based.
That way I can prio stam while out and about and eat a health one when I plan to be fighting more
Ya I was just nervous about posting it after coming to the subreddit and seeing everyone 100% stoked for H&H. I think more people will agree after they play it for a bit.
I'm excited about the changes, but not **that** excited. My plan has always been to wait till the first major content patch and do another 75 hours playthrough with my buddies.
The stuff they added is great, but it doesn't really justify another long playthrough IMO. I'll hold off until a patch with a new biome type, personally.
I do hope that a lot of the time between release and now was spent working on bug fixes as Irongate has claimed, because I'd hate to have to wait another 7 months for a content drop of that size.
If the motivation isn't there (I know close to nothing about the team, so this isn't accusatory or anything) to push out new content for free, I'd gladly pay for a DLC if that means new biomes and a lot of new content.
But its early access. If they expected me to pay for more content before the game is complete I wouldn't play it again.
I dont see a problem with dlc down the line, but if they start charging before the 3 unfinished biomes are complete, thatd be some bullshit. Or worse, a DLC for those 3 biomes. Granted, I dont think they'll do that.. just a thought.
I feel like food buffs need to scale with your overall stats/level. Makes no sense for food to give everyone the same stats.
Narrator: it turned out to be a very popular opinion
At the very least give me more inventory space to hold stamina foods, health foods and bukeberries.
Yeah, when I read “making food choices more interesting” in the patch notes I thought well that’s a cute way of saying “we made sure your tiny inventory will be clogged up even more.”
Having played a little with the new food system in place, one thing that I think is different is that the effects of the food last longer. Before, if you ate some food, the decrease in health and stamina was faster than it seems to be now. So, you may start out with less, but you retain more of it over time.
You start out with 50% less though. Plenty of times that huge bump at the beginning wasn't a big deal... but there were also plenty of times it was, like boss fights, or the beginning of a fuling village. Having a lot less last longer does not compensate for that loss.
It lasting longer also brings in the issue of it not being as easy to switch between stamina or health focus. You still can't eat more than 3 food stuffs... Maybe an easy solution to this new food balancing problem would be to give us 4 stomach slots
Eating a Bukeberry will immediately clear all your slots.
Yay another item to carry around!
Only if you think you'll need them. The rest of the time you can just leave them at home or on your boat or in a chest by your portal or at your temporary camp or wherever.
It'll be even less of an issue once they start tweaking the food stats.
Started a new guy, and man right off the bat I’m debating if it’s worth another play through. The hp and Stam problems in the early game seem insane.
We started a new world and fresh toons to try it. It's total hot garbage as is.
Credit where partially due: it's better after the rush rebalance.
It's straight up not fun... unless I'm missing something I feel like they've ruined the game for me.
Yeah, same here. I was playing for hours every night, couldn’t stand llaying for more than 20 min before I shut the PC down today… no desire to play this anymore till they fix it or go back to what it was.
May not be unpopular. My least favorite part of Valheim was farming and grinding low level areas for food and berries to feed/stock the server.
I either need a better patch or better friends. These guys are locusts.
Imagine not keeping your larder in a warded three-ply stone cell with iron gates on a remote northern island connected to a teleporter hidden under the floorboards. Whenever anybody asks if there's food I just say I've been feeding mine to the wolves.
I just tunneled under a large rock formation, made a teleportal, food storage, then closed up the entrance with stone and made a fake wooden shelter hut in front of it and removed the stone cutter.
Then when not one else is on, I rename one of the portals in the hub to an island near the rim, turn off the portal, and rename it to my hidden one.
Worked so far
That’s kinda toxic. I love it.
No, toxic is taking all the food and never making any yourself. This is necessary when you have people
Who don’t pull their weight in a server.
Or the ones who die and then take a whole stack of food with them and then die again...
If we could grow Berry bushes it would be much better
The changes are terrible and make no sense. The typical gameplay loop is ~explore... mine/farm/chop... explore .... fight~, the standard loop is not PURELY about fighting or PURELY about exploring... so having choices to go more towards one or another doesn't make any sense, this isn't a purely combat game..... "oh you can be a tank now with all hp food" ew, I'm a viking.
Exactly. Tanking is a bad design choice for this game, except \*maybe\* in group play (and maybe even then). I'd be willing to go out on a limb and bet that "standing there blocking" is not how even tankier players want to play most of the time.
So when I play with my friends I’m the designated tank, my only job is to parry everything and my friends jab/hack/slash as a follow up. Playing solo my build worked well, parry, get a few swings in rinse wash repeat.
Because of the shield knock back increase, coupled with blocking changes, coupled with food changes, my build is useless, my shield knocks opponents back to far to hit them so then I have to sprint up to get into melee which drains my stamina, which means less swinging weapons, which means more time blocking to let my stamina regenerate. If I throw in more stamina food, I can’t block worth a damn.
At the same time I feel sad that my favorite combo honey + cloud berries got nerfed in terms of health, but feel pleased that it lasts longer now.
EDIT: [I did a food test in combat (fueling camp)](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/pposke/i_did_a_solo_test_attack_on_fueling_camp_on_new/)
It’s too over tuned.
Instead of something being 75/15 or vice versa or should be 65/25.
Still where you have to specialize but not to such an extreme.
Given that 75/15 is replacing 80/80, I'm not sure 65/25 would be much better. I \*do\* agree it would be better though, but something like 75/45 might not be too unreasonable.
Have not played H&H yet. But after watching the video, I was bummed because the OG release was the only game to get food right. It was not broken and did not need fixing IMO.
I don't feel as invulnerable now, but yeah feels like a big stamina nerf as well on higher end stuff. Been a long time since I ran out of energy just tossing arrows. Not going to say it's bad yet, but, I expect to see some tweaks in the next few days from our feedback
There was also a nerf to the bow as well. You use more stamina to draw it. They didn't want us Vikings being so reliant of the bows. But you could go for a high stamina, low armor, high mobility game play style and play like a risky archer.
Honestly, not being able to do a 3-hit combo with a battleaxe without stamina food doesn't sound Viking-like to me either
Yeah that is so unfair. I felt that strongly when i get ambushed by trolls and dwarf swams. Archers don't have much blocking and area attacks. and quick firing has little to no damage. Archers only way of fighting/defending is to full draw fire, and run....and now they are nerfing the one single thing archers have to defend themselves with, i.e stamina?
My biggest issue is you still can't plant berry bushes. Because they are essentially used in EVERYTHING.
Having now played for about three hours, I don't think the food is actually the problem, it's all of the other behind the scenes stuff that changed about combat. Food is just getting the blame since it's the thing we were warned about and the thing with the most accessible information. The problem is that now everything costs more stamina, archery costs even more stamina, you get staggered a bunch, knockback got worse, and blocking got nerfed so hard it is actively detrimental in most situations. I'm pretty sure my overall stats went up after the update thanks to the massive buff bread got, and combat still feels awful.
I think if the food update had happened in isolation it would have been seen as a pretty good change, the increased variety and duration is really nice. It's just that what you use the food for now sucks.
How did they change blocking? I know it got a bit of a nerf but haven’t been able to play it to see just how the changes effect it.
Also, in addition to the response 1337duck sent you already, consider this as an example of the change:
You are in the mountain biome. You run into a wolfpack. 2 wolves. You can't time your block to parry, so you hold up right click to block their attacks whenever they come and wait for your time to attack. In order to hold up block for that long and block a bunch of attacks, you need to have an extremely high health bar, since blocking is now based on health. And since you have a high health bar, you now greatly lack stamina. It's basically one or the other. So now you barely have enough stamina to maneuver or swing your weapon a bunch. It's brutal.
I think people will eventually adjust and just pump up their health bar as far as possible to compensate for the new stagger bar - which is going to suck, because managing your stamina was painful before this update and is going to be even worse now. I don't mind the new stagger bar, and I don't mind it being based on your health, but honestly, at this point I think they should strongly consider just removing stamina from the game altogether if this is the direction they want to go in.
Your now have a stagger bar from being hit - regardless of block or not block. The stagger bar is based on your Max HP.
The amount the bar gets filled is based on the damage numbers of the attack being blocked. So if you're blocking fulings, it get fill up really fast, even when you still have plenty of stamina.
The stamina cost is higher (but you can have more stamina, so I'm not sure how it actually compares), there's a stagger bar that fills pretty quickly so you can't block multiple hits in sequence (and it's based on health so you can't get it very high if you want lots of stamina), blocking now adds armor rather than flat damage reduction so there's diminishing returns and you still take some damage, and depending on what type of shield you use either you or the enemy gets knocked back. It also feels like the parry window got smaller but I can't verify that.
This is correct. I've spent several hours with the new update. I read through several threads of comments in this sub. No one is talking about the changes to block/parry, which I feel are the biggest issue right now. The knock back on everything, regardless of blocking, is huge such that even if I parry I'm lucky to get a hit in. The food changes are fine, but the rest of the combat changes are what will kill the gameplay experience.
I think you nailed it. It's food/combat as a system that's totally fucked at the moment, not just one or the other.
Knockback is so painful with a battleaxe, a parry pushes everything away from me far enough that I barely get 1 hit in.
Yeah a lot of games don't really understand this like, just because something adds effort doesn't mean it makes for a better experience. Games are supposed to be fun, a lot of the time they're fun because of the effort required, but this game was already a slog in unnecessary tedium to begin with. It's a bad call imo to continue that trend.
It does sound more punishing without any real balancing or compensation elsewhere. Just tradeoffs where you're losing something but don't gain anything. My hope was that we were only seeing part of the equation and the devs weren't mentioning other changes (to monster damage or health or something) that would help the health/stam changes make sense, but it sounds like it's just an added layer of maintenance and inventory shuffling for no real benefit.
TBH I'm not really playing this as a cooking simulator and the idea of having to carry even more types of food with already tiny inventory space (and still no equip slots for armor and ammo) doesn't sound like it's adding fun and interesting decisions so much as just punishing players for doing normal stuff like running and fighting. I hope I'm wrong but if this plays out like it sounds I might just shelve the game for now until they can rebalance further. If it's not fun to play there's not really any point.
They did mention everything combat wise would be able to have further balancing once they installed the food changes. They also said the food will most likely be balanced immediately after implementing it into the game
Man I hope so. What a weird choice to release changes that make everything more punishing for the player and then just let that sit for however many months without releasing the corresponding changes to enemies that would make those updates more sensible.
Yeah I get that. Hopefully the quick balance changes that come in the near future will help, I’m hoping they add equipment slots and a food bag or something. Have gotten to test the new updates yet
Welcome to the fun world of early release.
I feel like that's weird, 7 months for a large update and then one of the biggest changes kinda hurts the game until further balancing happens? Why not just..not implement it until it's all ready?
I feel like one of the best parts about Valheim is that it is survival-lite, all the fun of survival games with none of the tedium. Adding more mandatory work to play that doesn't really offer any pros is the opposite of what I think they should be doing lol
I think it's only "survival lite" because they didn't implement most of the tedious stuff yet.
Also they're going to have a really hard time knowing when a system is ready without making people play with it first. This is an early access alpha game. This is what we paid for- to be guinea pigs.
That being said I'm not sure why they'd think that taking a system and making it more complicated with less benefit would be a good place to start tinkering. I guess there's an argument to be made for making something too punishing and then fixing it, as opposed to too generous and then taking it away.
>I think it's only "survival lite" because they didn't implement most of the tedious stuff yet.
Well that's a huge miss if true, a huge amount of people love the game because it takes the best part of survival games and the best parts of adventure games with minimal negatives from those genres.
As for beta testing, of course it is Early Access, you're right. That being said, other devs use beta builds in Steam for testing things like this before pushing a full major update (I know the Deep Rock devs do that a lot, and they're excellent) and even if they didn't want to do that - it really doesn't take a bunch of people playing to know good design and make good decisions. Especially when they literally said there would be combat would have to be balanced further to make the food system make sense - they literally acknowedged that, so they knew this food system wasn't complete without balance changes that compliment it.
>That being said I'm not sure why they'd think that taking a system and making it more complicated with less benefit would be a good place to start tinkering.
Exactly. Being in Early Access doesn't really excuse a weird decision, though I know they've been quick to reverse odd decisions that the community didn't like in the past.
Its more of a Dev Team vs 100k players - balancing.
What seemed balanced to a dev team may be different for players. Players often find broken combos or find some combos completely useless.
It's like how the Devs eventually noticed that the Bow is OP, but didn't quite know how to nerf it. They nerfed the DMG once. Now they nerf it again by making the wind-up time longer so you can't just strafe an army as easily anymore.
This update added plenty of tedious.
> Adding more mandatory work to play that doesn't really offer any pros is the opposite of what I think they should be doing lol
It's a knee-jerk (bad IMO)design decision basically every dev ever does.
"Oh players spent 500 hours to beat the game! they must really like it!"
-player actually spent 400 hours dealing with tedious bullshit to get to the fun.
There's a certain amount of bullshit people deal with before the fun bit isn't worth it.
This new food system + the already way to small inventory + the even worse stamina means I've hit my mark I think.
Ill wait till mods catch up and then go back to playing.
>Edit: I wanna make the very real point that I don't think this is malice, just inexperience due to them being relatively new indie devs. Plenty of devs both triple a and indie do this exact same thing because they purely look at either sales or engagement metrics when it comes to measuring their games' success.
>With a triple a it's probably malice to suck down money(think battle passes, grind mechanics or loot boxes). But for indie devs; irongate just knows making stamina/health/inventory a harder balance = more difficulty, more time spent in game.
>Just bad design is all, it's fake difficulty vs mechanical difficulty. It's an honest mistake hopefully they rework it.
People on this sub are reflexively defensive. I get that because you see it so many other places. Like sports. Can't criticize anything associated with the team, or else.
People need to learn to be more objective and less homer-y.
It makes very little sense why certain items aren't portalable. To force you to sail? I already sailed to get there. And the seas are neither dangerous nor exciting. Serpents aren't a real challenge and there's not much else out there. That's just adding tedium. The game finds a ton of ways to just add time. It's really frustrating. Without mods I would have left and never looked back.
The most bizarre part? People are *so* against the option to portal. As though being able to portal means they're now forced not to sail or explore! It makes no sense at all! They want everyone else to play the way they want.
It feels like a bunch of children with no jobs who have all day to grind and feel accomplished when they can.
> It feels like a bunch of children with no jobs who have all day to grind and feel accomplished when they can.
I don't wanna just say THIS^^ but that's how I am when it comes to games.
I play minecraft with keep inventory on and mob greifing off because I don't like wasting my very valuable and limited time on bullshit.
I have a hard time enjoying rougulikes because when you die you lose all that progress, i beat the souls games but it took forever and you dont actually lose out when you die.
grind mechanics in games simply means I don't play it unless I can mod it away.
That's how this game is, it's unfortunate but the devs want us to waste time and I'm like nah that shit is valuable.
Started fresh today and played for a couple hours.
This is just tedious, not fun.
Sure, we should start out kind of weak, then as skills & gear improve, we get better, but every action seems to take way too much stamina.
I will likely wait until the next patch as well.
Man 100% this. I am happy they made food last longer, but holy crap did they make it more tedious to make. I had to make 4 ovens to crank out the amount of food I normally do. Otherwise it would take forever to cook it all. That plus the time needed to farm and gather ingredients doesn't make it seem worth it to me. They turned the chores up to 11 on this one.
Edit: I forgot to mention I was in the mountain biome by myself. I ate a lox meat pie, turnip stew, and lox meat before I went up. Tried to climb the mountain and ended up getting stuck half way because I had no stamina. Then when I get to the top I have to kill drakes with my bow while jumping around on rocky terrain. Kept running out of stamina there because I'm jumping and drawing the bow and it ended up taking forever. Finally kill them and a fucking golem comes out of nowhere and I'm running around trying to get stamina to fight it. I need the high HP food since there's so much shit in the mountains, but I need high stamina because everything costs more stamina. It was idiotic.
This is exactly the kind of nonsense I predicted before H&H launched based on the info the devs were leaking. I'm quite disappointed to have been right.
I'm at the far end of this spectrum, in that every single negative experience I've had with the game (outside of no tailwinds ever) can be traced back to the stamina system existing at all. Knowing that now I'll have even less stamina to deal with is... not encouraging me to ever touch the game again.
I agree. Not sure why they messed with this tbh?
I was under the impression the new "Stagger meter" would fill up when you block with your shield but blocking wouldn't take stamina anymore, but it still does, wtf?
I tried some of the new combos of food but it just doesn't feel powerful any longer. I'm always out of stamina and feel like I just got shackled for wanting to enjoy playing. I tried killing Modar solo and I ended up wasting about 100 minuntes doing it with mainly my bow (some with my melee weapons). I had next to no stamina thru-out the fight and it was a long, slow and boring slog. Not fun at all. I feel so nerfed now. It should be Epic but it was not.
On a side note: I especially like that in a solo match with this Boss that they face you all the time and there is no proper way to just hit them straight in the face. And to run around takes stamina and then I have no way to do damage while I wait and they turn. I got stuck underneath the model one time and just sat there waiting for stamina to hit, really makes me sad that this is the new norm for now.
One day in and already discouraged about wanting to play more. So sad now.
The **destroyed** serpent stew.
It used to be a huge reward for seafaring players to take the risk of heading out to the depth with nothing more than a finewood bow and a karve...or in my case, a raft and a crude bow because apparently I hate myself. The 80 stamina boost was a HUGE swing in the power curve allowing you to push into the swamps and even mountains with a minimum of equipment.
Now it's 80 health and **5** stamina. Excuse me, what the hell? Why did we do all this? They said they were going to encourage different styles of play, but this is a massive kick in the crotch to any early nautical strategy, and horribly punishes stealth/archery playstyles.
Haven't had the chance to play yet, but this definitely doesn't seem unpopular lmao, I've not seen much positivity towards the new food system. Ah well, I had a strong feeling this was gonna happen. Looks like there's gonna be some changes or rollbacks pretty soon then.
I'm hating the new food mechanics. It seems to be designed for multiplayer gaming, but I'm a solo player in endgame. For me, the endgame food has been nerfed while early to mid game is getting loads of new food choices. Overall, Hearth and Home is disappointing.
Farmable berries would be a huge addition. I don't really understand why they're not - it's not as if propagating berry plants is hard.
This is a popular opinion. Biggest criticism with the game has always been the way food works, and they went and made it worse with this update.
Also it just sucks how much time you have to spend preparing food in some way in the game. It only gets worse as the game goes progresses
I came here just to post this. I am finding it nearly impossible to balance health or stamina. I have died so many times today just because I run out of stamina when surrounded by enemies, or, go into a fight with 70 HP but just enough stamina to actually make it work. I’m guessing there will be ONE stack that is feasible for these situations but right now, it’s just irritating.
The old food system was perfect, I don’t understand the point of changing this. It almost seems impossible to play solo now, or at least a lot harder.
Yeah, I normally play alone and just did a bit with friends. The combination of food changes and nerfing bow and shield has seriously tanked my interest in doing more solo, just when I'd got back into it and was all excited for the new build pieces. Will be playing a lot less now :-(
Yeah this really killed my interest in the game. I was so hyped and I played every day….
The old food system wasn't perfect either, but it was a lot better than the new hot mess in my opinion. It's not unreasonable to make food last longer and to perhaps nerf some of the food values. But I'm firmly of the opinion that the new system is a major step in the wrong direction.
Yeah. They need to bring back the same old food system but make the food last a little longer.
Food giving balanced stamina and health is fine, and if one gives a bit more of stamina and another gives a bit more health, all the better.
so... the old system before this new one was made??
Yeah. The old one was better.
The old system was perfectly balaned to be honest. There are certian foods that gave you more stamina and others more health.
It’s a bitch to take out a serpent, if you even come across one, which is rare…. So imagine you do all that work and the only thing you get from serpent stew is 5hp and 90 stamina… it makes no sense at all. Why even bother going through the trouble for that.
Yea as soon as I saw that video trailer I knew it was gonna be a nerf. No more just loading up on the best food and rolling into plains
Agreed, not a fan of the new system. It was fun getting the better foods in new biomes and being able to both take more hits and perform more actions. Having to choose is lame.
They should add 1 more food slot so we can use 2hp and 2stamina food
I think this is a popular opinion. Everything in the change log seemed good, but immediately after logging in I could tell the new food system was going to be a pain in the a\*\*.
Seriously, it's a huge downgrade from what we had before. Less of both hp and stamina no matter what you eat, and having to make hard choices about what to eat. I don't want to have to do calculus about what I need to eat, and have to coordinate my self-managed supply chain of what I grow/hunt/gather to feed myself. I like building and adventuring, not doing Amazon style supply chain logistics for food depending on what I want to do.
The new food system blows, but everything else about the update seems great. Sucks that this affects how much stamina and health I have though, this is not that fun.
I hate it. 6 of us tried to go hunt for silver on a mountain and if you had enough stamina to get up it you were immediately killed by wolves once you'd got up there because you didn't have any health. You're basically nerfing a stat in favour of the other.
My weapons setup is iron mace/banded shield and huntsman bow for melee/long range and it feels like I have to choose between one or the other which messes up my tactics in battle. Incredibly frustrating. And once you add up armour/tools/weapons + potions + arrows + wishbone/belt and THEN you have to take 5-6 different types of food *just in case* I've hardly any room left in my inventory either.
I don't dare do much in the mountains anymore. How are you supposed to defend against wolf packs and drakes while trying to get around? I was very excited about this update but will probably lose interest very quickly now because it isn't fun anymore. It feels like a chore.
Just spent the evening caught in a death loop of misery on the mountains by myself. Trying to fight wolves, drakes, and then the occasional golem was an absolute shit fest. Trying to kite anything for bow was impossible if you wanted to also draw the bow, and how else are you going to shoot at drakes? Get attacked by wolves? Great! You have enough stamina to swing at the first one but not the second that arrived late and just bit your ass dead in one go. Forget having a mix of enemies. Didn't matter whether I juiced up on health or stamina foods or a balance of both before heading out there. My buddies finally logged on to help and then they got stuck too. It was awful. We finally recovered, but nobody was happy. And we didn't even manage to find a freaking onion.
Yeah it's basically just a nerf when they proposed it as a buff. Demotivating as hell. I want ways to get higher levels not go effing backwards.
Dude I swear when they first announced it, I thought they meant that it would give you more, not less than before…
yeah I thought it was like normally you could have 250 health and 250 stamina. With the new foods you could make it 150 health and 350 stamina. I want more total stamina and was hyped for it.
Terrible idea to make a nerf while telling everyone you are adding stuff.
Stamina seems more needlessly punishing than ever.
I just hate how slowly stamina regenerates. It really ruins the flow of combat or farming. I fight then have to walk away for 10 seconds. Would be cool if a successful parry gave you stamina or if there were faster regen after a critical hit... just something there, because it can really drag sometimes.
Yeah, after playing the update for an hour, my first impression is definitely that it feels like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The old system felt fine to me. Sure, some things could've used slight balancing tweaks, and having more options for food is definitely a good addition. But lowering the overall amount of health and stamina you can get from food without adjusting many other elements of the game to compensate for it feels like a nerf that sucks a lot of the fun out of the game for me.
Personally, I kind of prefer Valheim being a more casual/arcadey survival game. One of my biggest complaints for other survival games is that they're too tedious and unforgiving. This food system rework feels like a step in that direction. Really hope they reconsider how they want the game's experience to be.
This if beyond bad, how am I supposed to defeat moder now, that I can only fire 3 arrows until I drain my stamina dry. Everything feels bad
Food already ran out a little too quick anyway imo. Even with shit like serpent stew I felt like I was eating way too often. Now you'll have to actually grind food and stuff.
grinding for food sounds awful. They really fucked up.
I think the IDEA of of separating the food into stamina based and health based can work, but it definitely needs some balancing in how it interacts with the new combat and blocking.
I was very excited about this upon hearing that there would be a way to focus more on stamina because the most unfun part of the game has always been the depressingly low amount of stamina you had before late game foods. Then I jumped on and saw if I want to get to the same or less stamina as I had yesterday, which already felt too low, I will have about 50 health to my name. I've been playing a ton recently to get ready to play this update and the food changes make me regret wasting the time, I won't be playing with the food system in this state. It's just unpleasant and even more grindy and tedious than before, not what I'm looking for in a game like this. If they're going to make sweeping changes that significantly change things to the detriment of the players, it would be wise to also include a way to adjust settings for solo worlds at the same time.
The game is now eating and cooking simulator. Instead of a powerful warrior, you are a pasty, weak chef.
Seriously. I saw list of all the different food combos and recipes and was like oh cool, Medieval Cooking Simulator. Not really what I signed up for.
More food is a good thing, but the way they went about it is ridiculous IMO. Want to block and melee a lot? Better have HP food. However, if you do forget using your bow or being able to run anywhere because you have shit stamina. Eat the stamina food and use the bow? Cool, better not get hit because now you have barely any HP.
We could choose how we played before. Now we're pigeon holed into a playstyle because of food. What? Food that is more grindy than ever to accumulate. Sorry, I don't want to pick berries for 2 hours once I have some of the best gear in the game.
[Remember when a dev said that the changes weren't just a nerf to food?](https://i.imgur.com/j95OSVP.jpeg)
Devs: Giving you new food systems.
Archers: yeah, yeah, that's right. **** me.
I tried fighting Moder yesterday. I was constantly out of stamina, able to shoot 3 arrows, which i needed for the drakes, then standing there no stamina left. Then wolves appeared and gave me a headache because i could only block 2 times with a Silver Shield.
I always disliked the stamina system on this game tbh
I think the update is incredibly underwhelming after spending about an hour with it.
The food overhaul is making things needlessly tedious and stamina is awful now. It used to be that stamina would come into play during battles which was perfect, now I can’t move at speed for anything more than short distances.
The timers on everything are immersion breaking and unnecessary. Food timing before was simple and intuitive, a single berry wasn’t going to last as long as a sausage, but stew was better. Straight forward, and you had a simple flashing icon warning when you were getting hungry again.
A final criticism; there’s no way this update should have taken this long to release. There’s just not enough here to justify it. Iron Gate made a terrible mistake not immediately hiring on help when they sold several million units in the first weeks of early access. They lost their momentum and honestly lost their way a little bit if this food and HUD timer system is what they spent most of their time on.
You're 100% right. I was impatient as anyone, but trusted this would add something to the game. They made it worse all around.
Let's be fair here, a lot of the new stuff \*is\* great. The map table, the darkwood pieces, uses for crystal finally, riding and taming loxes, etc. The food and weapon changes, to me, should not have been done at the same time (or maybe even at all). I think if they had stuck to the original plan of making H&H just about cooking/farming and building we'd all love it (even if we'd still want more). Such a small studio seems to lack the resources and manpower to do the kind of rebalancing attempted here with food/weapons all at once in any effective way.
I simply don't like that they took the choice away. I'm not a fan that so much revolves around food. You used to be able to play however you wanted. Stealthy archer? Go for it. Parry and dance? Why not. Tower shield block and smash? Do it!
Now the way you play your game is dictated by... food. Food that takes up more inventory space, and is tedious to grind. I don't see the merit in this.
I remember predicting essentially this in some threads about 4 weeks ago. Disappointed to see I was right.
>A final criticism; there’s no way this update should have taken this long to release.
The H&H content didnt take the full amount of time between releases; they also stated that they took more time than anticipated because the millions of players who joined from the beginning exposed many bugs that needed to be fixed. This is also reflected in their revised roadmap. As a game in early access, I think that some choices they make are bound to be recieved negatively. I think we'll see some tweaks to the new systems in the weeks to come
They said it exposed a lot of bugs but it really didn't feel like it made any difference if/when they fixed them. I just hope they're active in making changes and take feedback into account.
They also released two separate updates that needed to be immediately rolled back (cultivator/hammer delay and AI building attacking update), and updated skins nobody cared about (troll/bonemass trophies).
There is a lot of evidence of wasted time and bad priorities here.
I know this and my criticism stands.
I do like that you can't get as much health, but I don't like that you can't get as much stamina and hp regen is harder to come by.
I would have rathered small nerfs to the old system compared to this. This is the only thing I don't like about this update.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. Combat is really lacking with the new stamina changes. Using a bow is painful now. It was overpowered before but now it's almost useless.
I shudder to think about a 'you're being hunted' coming and having nowhere near enough stamina to fight them off.
I feel like the game got more difficult.
I like the idea they have about giving more incentive to switch up your diet with another. One for battle, another for boss fights, another for exploration and constructions.
However, I believe - for this to really work out properly - they're missing one part of the puzzle. The levelling system. As of right now the levelling system for weapons only affect damage. I believe that there also needs to be lower stamina usage and slightly more attack speed as you level up certain skills. Analogous to that of getting more experienced with swordfighting. Like you get used to it.
Not just that but also the way you level up. As you progress higher, it becomes much more tedious to level up, and there's no way to level up "consistently fast enough" when you get to like lvl 60+. One way to work around this is to change the way you get EXP. Typically with RPG games, you kill the enemy to get a certain amount of exp depending on what enemy (mob level, type etc.) you kill. I think valheim should have this too because then that gives you incentive to roam the biomes appropriate to your level and to have a bigger purpose there. There's a possibility to reach lvl 100? Then there should be a more fun and less laborious way to make use of that limit.
What i overall think is that the idea of the food system isn't in itself bad, but rather that other things need to be worked on in order for this to work out the way it's supposed to.
Well, I was in the middle of a fight with Moder when this update hit. I had to go recover my body (death happened before the update) and I was getting one-shotted by her ranged attack with the food available to me where before I wasn't. My mix was 2 hp foods and a stam food. I feel like boss fights solo are going to be even more difficult then they already were without some corresponding balance.
Yeah, I'm probably going to have to give up solo play now they've made even my best food about as good as raspberries used to be.
That’s brutal all I play is solo
Surely they’ll address this they must know not everyone plays in a group
I’d guess most don’t honestly
I don’t like it at all. I can’t believe they completely changed it… wtf. I get no stamina or health from anything. The bow uses all my stamina and blocking with a shield is just stupid now.
This makes me not want to play anymore. Who’s bright idea was it to spend all this time changing the entire food system? 🤦🏻♂️
"I know the entire community keeps telling us they want new biomes, build pieces, and enemies, but what we're going to do is totally fuck up food *and* combat.*
They 100% fucked it up.
Well damn, I was really looking forward to hoping on tonight and getting my grind on. Not sure how excited I am hearing all this.
You may like it, not sure… but I really don’t. It’s just too much. We already grind for material etc… but this new food system is just horrible in my opinion.
On one hand I want to argue with everyone, on the other hand, this game is still early access and road bumps like this are expected to happen. On the third hand, is this good, realizable feedback for the team or is this just gripes and complaints?
It's a mix of both, I think. I'd agree that the values need some tuning, but the changes are not so severe as to "kill the game", despite some of the more exaggerated comments on this thread.
Why would you nerf a game where the enemy is the computer? This isn’t league of legends. It’s supposed to be fun.
Yep, going to wait for mods to catch back up with this new balance because I don't enjoy it. If I wanted to play a game where I die all the time with no mercy because it's meant to happen that way I'd play Dark Souls, and I hate that entire genre.
Thank goodness for mod developers!
See, I love all the Soulsborne games and am totally down for an exacting challenge that demands a degree of skill and attention. But this isn't that, it's not even challenging in that way, it's just grindy and tedious and feels like a chore now.
Hahah. I have to admit I'm far from the most skilled player of games out there, so if Valheim goes the route of catering to that type of player exclusively, or say... solo requires that kind of skill, I might not keep up with it. I have too many other things worth my time more than that. I hope everyone who says this will be rebalanced, it's not the end of the changes, etc. are correct!
Got enough chores IRL too, you got that right. :)
My problem with the food is they took away our freedom of choice.
You used to be able to play however you wanted. Stealthy archer? Go for it. Parry and dance? Why not. Tower shield block and smash? Do it!
Now the way you play your game is dictated by... food. Food that takes up more inventory space, and is grindy as hell to make. I don't see the merit in this.
I see you on here calling out the circle jerk crowd, it’s great to see man.
They said in the fireside chat that this update was started in May, so it took 4 months to drastically nerf food and turn combat into a slow boxing match? Others are saying they’ll balance it soon but I heard people say they were arrogant in the fireside chat, basically saying this is how the game will be going forward and screw everyone who doesn’t like it.
You also can’t use the bow properly anymore?
Not going to be that unpopular an opinion. I thought I would feel tougher with all stam food, I feel less tanky in general as I have 0 stamina do actually do any blocking or other actions... Can't even jump up a hill anymore with all stam foods...
Am I the only one that still gets pissed that the wind is never in the direction I want it to be?
I was super stoked for the update and this update changed everything for me and my friends, we had trouble furnishing any building and everything looked so bare, but this update was perfect except for the food... If I want like 180Hp I get like 80 stamina(The default stamina is 50) or I can get like 200 stamina with 40hp(25 default) I completely agree and I feel like they need to balance end game foods just a tad along with the ability to plant berries and whatnot.
I think with any update there is going to be some anticipation and disappointment, but I’m very disappointed myself. I had hoped for transformative changes that would enhance game play, but got tweaks that made the mini-game of eating more challenging. I’m keeping my server in the old system for a while unless more comes out to advance the changes.
Food is ridiculously over-nerfed, the game is broken and I lost interest. No combination of foods at any tier offer enough stamina...
YEAH, not sure if this was good or not. Even just walking around stamina is now a major problem god forbid you walk near a black forest. Made a new world and immediately up approaching 1 black forest are (geared mind you from previous server and full on 2 hp foods and 1 stamina.) Swarmed by 2 groups of greydwarfs on top of each 3 brutes 6 shaman and 9 grey dwarfs and just trying to get stamina to swing the sword. Only to be knock around for 5 minutes until i could get stamina to kill them. Alt f4'd out so fast.
I think its trash so far, I need 4 slots to even do anything anymore.
Combat is a lot more tedious (especially considering trolls), it was already hard at the beginning and even with previous knowledge I'm grinding my teeth trying to even get to bronze age.
I don't mind that they split it up, what I do mind is that you drain your stamina so much faster now than you used to, and you don't have as much HP as used to. It just makes it harder and longer to do anything.
It took me one very long session to set up a dining hall with full cooking station in order to get decent food. I had the resources, I just had to make the food and prep stations.
But even so, combat takes longer, and the longer it takes the more dangerous it becomes. You can't tank as much as you used to because of lower health, and you can't snipe or kite as much as you used to because both take up more stamina than they used to. I shoot twice, wait for energy to pick up and then I shoot once and repeat.
But I do absolutely love all the other updates. They are fantastic improvements on the game. Very very very happy with it. Great dwarf eyes actually serve a purpose in food, freeze glands serve a purpose in food, honey serves a much greater purpose, turnips serve a greater purpose, and blob goo serves a greater purpose in food. Everything that I just stored up because it didn't serve a purpose I can actually use now for food and it is absolutely amazingly incredibly wonderful!!!
I totally agree. I very much miss the old system already. Like damn now i need to eat full tier food to be able to block a normal fulling if I don’t want to die ;/ lvl 2 silvershield
It's almost as if tying 90% of your health and stamina pool to consumable items is bad game design.
I agree, they made the game worse, a lot worse. Instead of attacking mobs I now spent a lot of time running away from them. Ridiculous
Agree. I can’t believe this is the best they could come up with.
The thing I don't get it why they want to make it so much more difficult. I'm sorry, but we don't play Valheim because we want it to be slow and impossible. Then you play Dark Souls.
Yeah, perhaps some of the food was a bit OP, but couldn't they just have changed 80/80 to 70/60? Why _5_?
Jeez, I spent 200 hours completing the five bosses. It's not like it was some kinda stroll on the beach. I died a million times. Why is it a shame to _not_ nerf it? I don't get it. Fine with new food system, but then they gotta change the stamina system as well. Bows are useless now. Stamina is for _doing stuff_. If you just wait around to "do" .. it becomes tedious.
Lol all that hype to nerf stamina.
I do not like it at all, I may never play again if they don't change it.
So can I get my upvotes back since I was saying this from the beginning?
I disagree that the new food system itself is the problem, since we had both stamina and HP before.
I think the issue is that the stamina and HP numbers need some more tuning.
In addition, some existing enemies need some tuning as well to compensate for the new numbers.
I had a 2-star wolf spawn-camp me on am awkward section of mountain, despite my fully upgraded padded armor. I brought another character with fully upgraded stuff to kill it, and the lack of stamina made it impossible. My main character is now also stuck there.
I was sad and quit.
In the old system we never had stamina until lategame. In the new system you never have stamina period. I feel like the old system with some more skewed numbers on hp/stam food would have just been better. Instead of 80hp/60stam make it 90hp/50stam and call it a day. Not having stamina is straight up unfun, and not having hp is also straight up not fun. We now have a game where we have to choose between not having one of these things, and what do we get in return? The one we prioritize is still lower than it used to be, and the secondary one is so low it may as well not exist.
Less HP less stamina was NOT the take way to do this. It should have been stamina stays the same, max possible hp goes a bit lower, and focus on making endgame foods still provide sufficient of the secondary stat you didn't choose. We used to have it all. sure, but making us have none is a horrible idea.
Wait...so...solo play is impossible now? Well...sh\*t in a handbasket. I pretty much only play solo due to circumstances.
Solo is still doable but having no stamina is annoying.
Not very impressive update over all, I think I will come back later
It's horrible. Not even trying to play anymore.
I haven't even played yet, and I'm not happy with how it looks. This sounds like a balancing nightmare, that little to no effort was put into balancing.
I can't stand being always out of stamina, it was honestly bad enough in the base game. That's not challenging, it's just bad game design. I'm a huge fan of games like dark souls where you conserve your stamina, but there really isn't stamina conservation in this game. It regenerates so slow, and enemies all path right up to you instantly and have infinite stamina themselves.
As it is now, that basically means you have to pick the stamina food, and deal with having a tiny sliver of health. That forces out variety of playstyles, as going max stamina, light armor, and just avoiding getting hit will likely be better than any health based build that has you trying to cope with base stamina.
If I wanted hard I would load up Rust or Tarkov. This game was always a chill, survival-lite, exploration game.
Sweet. Now I can spend even more time getting more ingredients to more tediously cook to get the fun of going after 1 goblin camp and getting 1 shotted by a spear anyway
I agree, and updates will always be a problem with the game imo. Adding new content is awesome but adding new things in regards to how food, combat or whatever has a high chance to hurt the game imo because people already fell in love with the game they made without their future plans involved.
They should have never touched the food besides adding more variety and editing how much health/stam existing foods give you to compensate for new foods.
This new health OR stam mechanic is horrible imo.
And I’m sorry but they need to use some of the money and hire some more devs. The amount of time it took for this update to come out was way too long. They added a few new items/foods made foods more stam or more health specific and tinkered with combat.
This is all stuff modders could do in a few months and stuff a team of veteran modders could do in weeks.
Love this game and always will but I’m not a blind supporter of anything and things need to be called out when necessary.
They need to start taking the development of the game more seriously or the fan base will go south after a few more below par updates.
And before I get the compulsory “iT’s iN eArLy aCcess” comments…sorry early access is not exempt from criticism. The game is for sale and is completely understaffed.
With even a normal sized development team we could’ve had all the H&H stuff, a new biome and the sailing updates all released by now. They could’ve had multiple teams addressing specific areas of the game like one on bug fixes and one on future updates.
This is currently not happening and this is why it’s taking so long for new content. They have to totally postpone development on future content when focusing on bugs and vice versa right now.
HIRE MORE STAFF!
So not only have they not delivered shit for content after 9 months, but they ruined what I felt was a perfectly good food system. My love for this company has plummeted in the last few months.
I expected the values to be huge, not tiny, if I’m trading Stam for hp I better be able to jog across an island, otherwise it’s just a nerf for no reason, if you want food to be less critical then improve base hp/stam so it’s not so important
This really isn’t that unpopular of an opinion