By - cyclinginvancouver
That's unusual, it seems like quite a nice area.
I know, right? It's the same block as VANDU operates out of. I wonder if we'll hear a press release from them condemning the violence or praising the quick action of the VPD
This is the result of over-policing of marginalized people.
We are a community that takes care of each other and we don't need the VPD harassing us because of our lifestyle choices. Respect our dispute resolution practices!
You had me in the first half
Lol it's hard to tell right?
I've seen a few people sprinkling in sarcasm that, if posted by someone else, *could* pass for a real opinion.
"respect our dispute resolution practices" .. . . .. . .
\*smashes junk into toe-vein
THE FASCIST COLONIAL CAPITALIST STATE IS WHY I BANG ANIMAL GRADE CHINESE FENTANYL INTO MY TAINT.
I also low-key do it because I like it but the stuff that my social worker tells me is legit too.
dont you worry, muffin - BC Taxpayers HAVE YOUR BACK and will fight to the Social Justice bone to make sure the status quo is held
we will cry on the interwebs and protest on the streets so you can continue to have your ENTITLED vein-smacking!
enjoy that free $500 ambulance ride to Emerg ..!
Instead of calling 911 they should have asked the victim "Can I share with you some things I'm doing to stay safe?"
A super helpful question to ask is "Do you need help managing your needs during this challenging time?"
Right in front of the Hazelwood Hotel.
Google review: "World class parking, fine cuisine and the best live street performances nightly!"
Live street performances = random stabbings?
> Live street performances = random stabbings
They have Shakespeare in the Park, get ready for Caesar in the Street
Caesar is the Street, lmao
Gotta keep a sharp eye out for that audience participation show.
Talk about some "close up magic" Now you see the knife, now you don't. repeat
Wait, what's this behind your ear? *gushing blood*
Damn taking murder mystery dinners to a new level
I wouldn't say they did well in preserving the "mystery" part when translating to this new medium
Method acting is coming back in spectacular fashion.
“These people just want a roof over their head”
“They are harmless! I walk through the DTES to get to work”
How long are the hipsters of gastown going to excuse this behaviour?
I rarely (almost never) hear it, but I have felt for a while now the best first step to 'cleaning up' the DTES is to prioritize helping the good, non-violent, down on their luck people who are willing to put in the effort to improve their situation *first*. Lumping the good with the bad, the violent with the vulnerable, the enthusiastic with the lazy is a large reason we're not seeing improvements.
Gore ave living up to its name :(
Can we finally start being hard on crime and stop ignoring the shopping carts full of stolen crap, camping and open drug use in our park? It's only a matter of time before this is a common happening on Davie street, Yaletown, the West End or Olympic.
- The City of Vancouver, the provincial government, and the federal government
What's funny is someone posted the following reply to the VPD tweet and they flagged it as offensive content!
"Has the VPD ever thought about arresting those who openly shoot heroin on hastings? Or are they to busy giving out parking tickets and warnings at the beach? 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
VANDU, PIVOT and all those BS organizations would love to get in front of the media slamming VPD for infringing on those peoples civil rights, over-policing, discriminatory policing blah blah blah.
I have spoken to several officers down there and they would clean up that area if the city would allow it but they won't because politicians are spineless.
/s a SaFe SuPpLy Of DrUgS wIlL sToP aLl ThIs
Well as long as you give them enough drugs from that safe supply, it technically would stop them.... But is that more humane?
I would argue it is more humane.
What kind of quality of life are these organizations trying to support for drug abusers? It literally sounds like a living hell and they are only prolonging their suffering.
> they flagged it as offensive content!
Twitter did, not the VPD. Twitter's got a giant list of words that, if you use it, no matter the context, gets your tweet flagged as "potentially offensive".
Curse words are the obvious ones, not surprising that 'heroin' lands you on the naughty word list too.
That's why I put all my beer in needles when drinking on the beach!
VPD doesn’t give out parking tickets, the city does. And I’ve been drinking on the beach for 10 years and never been ticketed. Just don’t be an obnoxious prick, conceal your liquor and you’ll be fine.
And what about people using needles openly in the street?
Vote for politicians that want to fund mental and addiction health centers.
I mean, I don’t love it when people leave their empties on the bus or beach or street, but I definitely love it less when it’s a needle instead of a can.
Most people "using" alcohol aren't so wildly addicted that they'll commit a crime to get their next fix.
You can have a drink with your family during the holidays, be social, and have a good time. Heroin, not so much.
People bring their families into breweries and tap houses. If you're bringing your kid into a crack den, that's a big problem.
Neurochemically, not much.
The typical person's emotional response to the act itself, a massive difference.
One is currently legal and the other isn't. r/vancouver won't be able to wrap their head around your point because 'but but they're not following the RULES and the poors make me scared!'
You get stopped and fined (or more likely, asked to pour it out) if cops catch you with open beer...
Edit: not sure for the down votes... while I have never personally been fined for open alcohol, I have had officers ask me to pour out my open alcohol on more then one occasion.
This bothers me more then money laundering and run away housing prices. I can understand why they are slow to act, its a cash cow.
What is the benefit of letting junkies terrorize regular people and destroy the tax paying business. I feel like its a sick fucking joke where these guys are just laughing their ass off.
At this point no one, I mean no one outside of the poverty groups would bat an eye if we built a prison in the middle of norther BC and locked these people up indefinitely.
Benefit is looking virtuous, pretty much all anyone cares about in politics these days
The people of Northern BC might?
It’s kinda big
It's already in Prince George.
I say we build a wall around the DTES, and make them pay for it.
Hard on crime really does a great job of addressing crime. Maybe we can say no to drugs too, and that will stop drug abuse.
Gets it off the street so the people paying the taxes can enjoy the park with their family. Get your priority straight City, first you need to take care of the people paying the bills then you help the others. Soft on crime and drugs doesn’t work. Look at what’s been happening since we started. We never even implemented all the pillars of support they promised.
I look at what we did before we started and it also sucked. We need to crack down on drug dealers. That's where the effort is needed.
In a way, didn’t COVID do that by disrupting the drug supply? We just ended up with more OD’s.
I can enjoy many parks in the city with my tax-paying family. I can suggest several between Cambie and Nanaimo if you’re interested. Great views, playgrounds, lots of open space to enjoy a picnic. Just look at Google Maps. Green space everywhere.
That's great for that park, but you do know many parks aren't safe, right?
I wasn’t talking about a single park but it’s okay. Stay inside. I’ll use the extra space to enjoy the parks I safely enjoy with my family :)
My apologies, from your comment that wasn't clear.
And no, I won't stay inside thank you. I go for daily walks (with a mask on!) and avoid problematic parks. But that's so beside the point we might as well be taking about colonizing Mars.
The point is, there are needles and threatening transients in many parks downtown. To me this is a problem, and judging by the votes many vancouverites agree.
Don't misunderstand me, you're entitled to your opinion, but you should be aware you're in the minority.
Except we are currently suppose to stay in our own neighbourhood.
So you were ok with the only park in the only traditionally Japanese Canadian area of town being overrun with squatters? Squatters that looted the nearby Buddhist temple? Squatters that have made it impossible for the annual Japanese cultural festival to be held in Oppenheimer park?
Your answer is go to another park? Get your priorities straight.
Calm down. Breath. Re-read. I clearly wasn’t talking about moving a festival to another park. Nor did OP make it clear they wanted to enjoy the only traditionally Japanese park in town. It was about feeling safe and I commented that there are several parks to feel safe in. But it’s fine. Glad you got that out of your system. And thank you for that. I didn’t realize that area had such strong Japanese ties. The more you know :)
Sure. Don't let the fact that it has never done any good anywhere in the world stop you.
Hahaha hey everybody I got this new idea let's be tough on crime! When we run out of jail cells we can hit people with all these unread books i've got laying around with words like "history" on them
> It's only a matter of time before this is a common happening on Davie street, Yaletown, the West End or Olympic.
No it's not lol
It's already starting. Open drug use is starting to blanket the city.
You haven’t been listening to the local news.
There is very little tolerance for disruption in high-income areas. Unless the upper-middle class residents of these areas disappear you're not going to see these areas magically end up with the issues of a neighbourhood with a poor residency.
We live in a high density area in a major city. If seeing a homeless person bothers you, leave.
perhaps letting them police themselves isn't actually working out so well
The stabbing IS the policing
i literally saw two people fucking in a boarded up store alcove this morning not far from there, driving downtown is equal parts entertaining and depressing these days, even more than usual.
Huh, well I'm glad that's mere blocks from where I live.
If you're not used to this, you should get used to this.
Oh I'm use to it. Although the violence has gotten worse in recent months.
I expect the same scene to happen in the near future in the west end and Yaletown, since they moved all those drug addicts from tent city to the Howard Johnson on Granville street.
I feel like it’s gonna take a stranger on the street being murdered before any of this stuff is stopped. I’m in the West End and work in Gastown, West End is getting worse all the time. There was a bike chop shop set up in broad daylight in the park beside me a few weeks ago, tarpaulins set up with people sleeping under. Getting harassed every block for change (4 times over a 5 block stretch down Denman). The city is only gonna wake up when someone they know and love is harmed.
> it’s gonna take a stranger on the street being murdered before any of this stuff is stopped
Not even that will do it at this point, I'm afraid.
Unless the murdered person is a politician or lobbyist.
I miss when it was only street brawls amongst gang bangers outside of Earls :*(
We're already seeing an increase of people walking around and shouting or rambling to themselves at weird hours of the night lately. Plus just last week they found a lot of used needles and other drug paraphernalia at Emery Barnes park.
Definitely is a powder keg just waiting to blow, maybe next year when the clubs open back up and the weekend drunk crowd bumps into the waster crowd that will think it is their strip by that time.
There used to be a few bars back in the day that would cater to opposing crowds, and fights were super common. Lamplighter used to be like that
Vancouver in 1950: no way highway to downtown, we want to live, work, and play downtown.
Vancouver in 2020: we want to move out of DT due to druggies and stabbings.
I can only see one "good" thing coming out of this .. What if we were currently in the making of Vancouver's very own Batman
You know the marginalized, always stabbin' people
I wonder if that will be a catalyst for actual change. I bet the VPD will be quicker to act when these lowlives start disrupting the rich who are trying to enjoy a bellini at Cactus Club.
me too 3
How long do you think it will take? :(
I live fucking next door to the Howard Johnson. It has been an absolute nightmare. Overnight my apartment complex has gone from "nice but generic place to live" to "I can see homeless guys blowing each other for drugs from my home office and I get woken up at 3am by some meth head setting off firecrackers." Not to mention that people are constantly trying to break into our building now. We had some guys get caught twice breaking in then pulled the fire alarm on their third time in.
Unfortunately I believe the situation will get a lot worst before it gets better. I am sorry for your situation. The druggies and mentally unstable are reaping all the benefits and the rest of us are paying in so many ways. A very unfair situation.
Oh shit, in *my* back yard?! Now this I will not stand for
"Hastings between Gore and Dunlevy is closed to all traffic due to a multiple stabbing. Transit has been rerouted. Please avoid the area. \#VanTraffic"
>posted by @VancouverPD
media in tweet: None
Meanwhile the VPD is still doing enforcement of loud exhausts and lowered cars 😂
Ahh yes the only legal matter that effects the gated community population. Don't have to worry about meth heads stabbing you from inside thier.
Officer Cain and the Subaru Patrol
I blame those scary assault knives.
And they need to be banned because they’re much more dangerous than regular knives.
The solution to a bad guy with a k-bar is a good grandma with a k-bar.
These reddit gun people are just the best!!
Not everything is about your special guns bro.
I bet you make identifying as an attack helicopter jokes as well.
I was tinkering with my thermo-nuclear warhead the other day when the police showed up and took it from me.
This is bullshit. I have a right to protect myself. The line between what the government regulates and not should not be determined by how many people I can kill in mere seconds. The government should stay out of my business!
You got downvoted big time, but I think this is very valid point This is seriously how london approaches their problem and they have become basically a laughing stock with little to no improvement in their situation - as police confiscate butter knives and sporks. And then brag about it on social media.
> they have become basically a laughing stock with little to no improvement in their situation
A quick search shows homicide rates slowly going down over the decades, so... ?
I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but did confiscating sporks and butter knives contribute to the homicide rate over the decades? And of course the homicide rate really doesn't speak to different types of crime. Because this is a relatively recent phenomena.
But literally the first thing I saw when I did " a quick search" was "the number of homicides in london climbs to 10 year high".
So i think one of us is probably wrong or making a different argument.
Police being proud of confiscating a spork should be an embarrassment for a police force / public policy and, no, it does not having a meaningful affect on the homicide rate or other types of crime. That was my point.
They banned "assault knives" (specifically "combat" knives and any marketing of knives as offensive weapons) in 1997.
[Since then the homicide rate has gone from ~2.5 to ~1.5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London#Homicide).
With the quote
> Although the homicide rate in London has been increasing year on year since 2014, its homicide rate is lower than other cities like New York, and Toronto. Still England is one of the least violent countries in Europe. Comparisons can be made to other world cities. Statistically London has half as many homicides as Berlin per population.
I'm not saying it's causal, I'm just saying that it's wrong to say they've had "little to no improvement in their situation" when... They have.
Obviously there's a difference between confiscating spoons/sporks, but they already had their "assault knives" ban, which is what you were responding to. You're making a strawman that a "combat knives" ban is equivalent to a "no sporks in public" rule.
ITT: Rampant classism. Yeah, I'm sure you would be all happy if these inconvenient people died off or were rounded up and incarcerated with whatever charge you can come up with. Yet none of you realize it only takes a few devastating days to end up in the same situation.
Exactly. When a white person stabs someone in a train station it's "Mental illness" but when a poor person does it in a marginalized community, people in places of privilege call to group them all together and purge them. That's the classism I'm calling out, not the violence.
More stabbings have occurred near where I live at 41st and knight than in the DTES where I work
>When a white person stabs someone in a train station it's "Mental illness" but when a poor person does it in a marginalized community
You know most of the people in the DTES are white right?
I work there daily. If you're mostly seeing white people in the DTES you've got blinders on.
Nope. Census demographics have been taken and put the dtes population at 60% white. You're the one with blinders on since you apparently think white people cannot be poor crackheads. Guess you think only minorities can have drug problems.
It's possible that you're so used to living in an 80% white community that being in an 60% white community makes you feel like white people are a minority.
White people are actually overrepresented in the dtes compared to the rest of vancouver, because there are very few Asians in the dtes. Vancouver itself is less than 50% white.
Sounds like we agree with the rest of the commenters being toxic af then
I don't think that's true. If I lost my job, if my house burned down, whatever happens to me, I can pick myself back up and get on with my life. Maybe take a lower paying job, maybe live somewhere squalid for a while. But I'll work my way back up. There's no way you'll ever find me living on the streets. I'll graciously accept the social safety nets when necessary and not spit in the face of my benefactors.
Would you have the same attitude if you were born to a mom who used drugs, a dad who beat you, then taken away and shuffled around from foster care home to another until you age out at 18 with no education, money or family support? When the only place you can afford is an SRO in the DTES with your measly social assistance rental allowance of $400? Would you have the same resilience if your life pretty much sucked from day 1?
Truth of the matter is that most people in the DTES drew an incredibly shitty card in life and what we're seeing is the result of that. I don't remember the exact number but something like 80% of all homeless in the DTES had contact with the foster care system.
While it doesn't excuse the behavior and situations like these need to be dealt with, they are still human beings and Canada needs to do a much better job at pouring money into prevention program. While harm reduction has its place the majority of money needs to go into harm prevention. We need a national or at least provincial strategy with guaranteed funding, and not a million and one non-profits who fight over every dollar every year and are going to be axed the second the government changes.
When you say pouring money into prevention programs, you mean before they get to this state, right? Because at this point, they are lost causes?
Yes exactly. The money needs to go more upstream and prevent people from ending up in the DTES.
I wouldn't say lost cause, but it's definitely too late for prevention.
That is good to hear!
It sounds like your mental health is sound and solid. Very rational.
Unfortunately that is not the case with most of these homeless individuals. The mental illness is rampant in this community- in fact this condition largely precedes the status of homelessness.
That's why we see what we see... Nobody wants that life. But it's a symptom of a bigger issue, which is mental illness, pyschologcial wounds, unmanaged ptsd, no family support etc etc.
The causes are unique and different for every case, but every case involves poor mental health.
Are you advocating to just leave them be?
Oh God no! There is no agenda here hahah wtf?
My point is to dig deeper. To address any problem, looking towards the root cause is crucial. Poor mental health and not enough support is typically the root cause for these problems in this community.
What I *would* advocate for is for mental health services to be covered by MSP.
I would even argue that the lack of basic psychological service coverage is a catalyst in this problem.
If you talk to your Dr and just get put on meds, sure psychiatry is covered.... but that is just drug therapy. That is a monthly prescription cost. And only a band-aid in the long term picture.
And Proactive services like personal counselling, psychology services, and family counselling is typically an out of pocket cost at least $120-$200 per session, and there is no avoiding the fact sessions may need to be maintained for over 6-12 months for lasting healing and change to occur.
There are varying degrees and different types of mental illness. I have people on my Facebook feed telling me that Bill Gates is depopulating the world with genetically engineered coronavirus, possibly delivered via 5G towers. I also have people questioning why they should have to wear a mask at Costco. Both of these types of people are mentally unsound, but one more so than the other. Yet they still live in houses and have jobs.
You say nobody wants that life on the street. I would argue that yes, they absolutely do. People who can't accept any kind of authority willingly choose that life. For some it's nothing more than camping, but forever. There are folks too sick to choose. The ones who wander around screaming obscenities at thin air. But people that ill are a minority.
You’re coming from a place of privilege, not everyone has social safety nets.
Everyone in Canada is born into privilege (as thats relative)
There are tons of social safety nets in Canada that majority of other countries in the world don’t have.
These “people” don’t want to get better, the system allows them to continue to do what they are doing. No one is going to choose recovery (as thats a difficult path) over their existence now.
The fact that you put quotations around people suggests that you lee them as less, as undeserving of our sympathy or support. I had a relative who became homeless and who was an addict and they did get themselves off the street, but sadly after many consequences. I have also had friends in this situation. Unfortunately they have all been minority LGBTQ people, who are often already treated with distain, even in Canada. We are not perfect, and many times we do not have the appropriate resources.
Let me know when you’re in the depths of depression and mental illness, with no family to fall back on.
So they aren’t really people in your eyes?
Oh yeah they do. In this country we all do. They would have to replace the ID they've lost and maybe wait a few days to access it. Social safety nets are available to everyone.
Lol, must be nice to not be native. Even with ID, a kid was arrested at BMO for opening a bank account in the DTES. And that's just the cases we hear about. There are so many more cases where people are denied safety nets due to discrimination from the humans in the machine.
BMO is an isolated case, and after suffering a moment's indignity, that family should be comfortably set for life.
If you think that's an isolated case, you're mistaken. I've seen plenty of times where natives were shunned at businesses. The only reason it even registered was because it escalated.
>Yet none of you realize it only takes a few devastating days to end up in the same situation.
Maybe if you received a traumatic brain injury during those few days. Otherwise no. These aren't people who just lost their job or something.
Yeah I've had quite a few devastating days and I've never stabbed someone. Ate 3 cartons of Hagen daz in one go, but never stabbing.
All it takes is your first manic break. Or PTSD trigger.
One the slipperiest slopes.
I've known several, well-off, stable, 'normal' individuals that ended up being side-swiped with poor mental health out of nowhere. Addiction usually plays a role somewhere because the urge to self medicate is overwhelmingly natural and hard to overcome.
If it was not for their friends and family being able to cover costs and build a support system.
These dear 'normal' friends of mine could very well have ended up in similar situations.
Really? Because I've had PTSD for years and I've still never stabbed anyone. It's unthinkable to me.
I do count myself as fortunate that I have housing.
Yes, likewise, for ptsd
But in severe forms it can trigger a dissociated state that is *sometimes* violent. Other mental crisis can also result in agitation and violent outbursts.
PTSD manifests differently for everyone depending on trauma, triggers, and mental health history.
and sometimes people are violent assholes and it can't be blamed on PTSD
Somehow living in poverty and being mentally ill has not yet resulted in me stabbing anyone, nor do I expect it ever will.
>Yet none of you realize it only takes a few devastating days to end up in the same situation.
I'm already poor and mentally ill, and I can easily imagine myself becoming homeless were things slightly different. But I'd still never fucking stab someone. I am *sure* of that.
There's a difference between classism and criticism of violent crime. It seems like you're trying to say it's classist to be opposed to stabbing people. What am I missing?