T O P

Hong Kong's largest pro-democracy paper Apple Daily has announced its closure, in a major blow to media freedom in the city

Hong Kong's largest pro-democracy paper Apple Daily has announced its closure, in a major blow to media freedom in the city

momo1122

Worth to mention that this is happening before any trial had been done. There is no presumption of innocence in HK anymore and the HK government could shutdown any media / corporate using same approach from now on without any limitation.


Shivshanks

it's because the CCP passed a new law and decided that it could be enforced retroactively over things that have already happened.


Individual-Desk6319

When they ruin Hong Kong they still will not be happy


funhouse7

It’s well past “when”


redcoatwright

I think he means economically. HK is still an economic powerhouse for that area but as it gets more dystopian and the CCP cracks down more, people will flee and it'll become a shithole. Give it 30 years, HK will be unrecognizable


magic8ballshaker

>Give it 30 years, HK will be unrecognizable I would have said 30 years even a year or two ago. At this rate, it will be much faster.


MaxanderG

One big economic wall, anything else seems to have zero effect on the Chinese government authoritarian tendencies. They break agreements and international laws like it's nothing so its time for a more heavy handed approach. Isolating their economy would hurt everyone else to a not insignificant level to, but sometimes a hammer is needed to solve a problem once reason had its turn.


XWarriorYZ

Except nobody is willing to put their economy on the line over Hong Kong.


exoriare

It's not just Hong Kong anymore than it was just the Sudetenland. Once fascists start spreading their wings with territorial claims, it's time to bunker down. Ten years from now, the opportunity to disengage will be lost, and the remaining choices will be much more stark.


XWarriorYZ

I don’t disagree with you, I’m just saying that is how every other country on Earth is going to see it. The ball was really in the U.K.’s court with Hong Kong, China was violating a contract it made with them and there were no consequences. China knows as long as it stops short of territorial conquest of other sovereign countries that could fight back, they pretty much have free reign.


NoProblemsHere

> They break agreements and international laws like it's nothing Because it is. China knows none of those things have teeth for them anymore, the same way the US and Russia knows it.


Trilbydonasaurus

Those things have never really had teeth for the US.


Azhaius

The only international agreement that matters is "have enough economic/military power to do what you want to do."


sldunn

This has been true throughout history for any nation that can say "Oh yeah, what are you going to do about it?"


Betrix5068

I mean the US basically is the teeth.


historicartist

The heavy-handed approach requires a military draft.


Alberiman

It doesn't help that the CCP propaganda machine is so damn good that they turned the entirety of china against Hong Kong and made the people all essentially demand the worst treatment possible for Hong Kong residents. Even if Hong Kong ever fully fell in line with the CCP they'll never be able to undo the hatred they've created


iam_acat

On this front, the CCP actually didn't have to work particularly hard. Hong Kongites have traditionally held very negative views of their northern cousins. In return, the rest of Guangdong already thought of them as arrogant, self-centered, and hilariously bad at Mandarin. Sort of parallels the relationship Paris and Parisians have with the rest of France.


Alberiman

I think that's understandable, but it's nuts to me that they were able to make the jump from "those guys are stuck up" to "Those guys deserve to be stomped and killed like roaches" (which was the actual sentiment I heard a Chinese friend of mine parody much to my horror)


EverythingIsNorminal

> and hilariously bad at Mandarin Given they speak Cantonese in Hong Kong that's kind of a dumb take really. It's like saying "lol, these French are so bad at English". It's an ignorant take about anyone who's not able to speak a second language as fluently as people who speak it for their first language.


crunchy-lime-skies

It is a pretty bad take, but the mindset in China - promoted by CCP btw, is that Mandarin is the official state language and therefore everyone should strive to speak it well. Some HKers - especially the "free HK" variety, deliberately refuse to, which obviously leads to further divides based on language. I don't know the situation in Canton well enough to say for sure, but I wouldn't be suprised if Cantonese people genuinely did see HKers having poor Mandarin skills as a point of derision. As someone else said, Cantonese is the first language of many of those in Canton but unlike in HK, Canton is on the mainland and more aligned with the central government, so the people there may be a lot more accommodating for Mandarin. At the very least I'd be willing to be that Mandarin is a hell of a lot more accepted in Canton than it is in HK.


Beatleboy62

I for the life of me cannot remember, but I thought I read something in the past year or so that essentially said that this was more true 10, 15, 20 years ago but in the years since, China has something like 30 HK level cities, in terms of economic output. It's all manufacturing, you've never heard of the cities (I hadn't) and probably never will. They're not notable (at least outside China) for any cultural reasons or have any draw, but they make a lot of money for China. The key takeaway (from my pov) was that, to a degree China no longer needs HK to connect to the outside world, and doesn't need it as an economic powerhouse anymore, and now only views it as a thorn in their side, hence the "damn the consequences" heavy handed actions taken towards it.


KristinnK

It's not about the economic output of Honk Kong. It's the fact that Chinese companies generally have a very hard time getting access to foreign capital, while Hong Kong has (as long as it remains autonomous from China) certain liberties in terms of trade and access to capital. So Hong Kong is *extremely* useful to China as a gateway to the world economy. That is, until May of last year, when the U.S. State Department [declared Hong Kong as not autonomous anymore](https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officially-declares-that-hong-kong-is-no-longer-autonomous-11590596133). This has always been a balancing act for Xi. He needed Hong Kong for economic reasons, but also wanted to limit democracy and civil rights like in the rest of China. Until last few years the balance has been in Hong Kong's favor. But there are a lot of reasons compounding recently that have tipped the balance. China is starting to come into friction with the wider world over issues such as overfishing, the South China Sea dispute, trade practices, etc., to which they respond by trying to wean off their dependence on exports in favor of a domestic consumption-driven economy. Also, economic growth is slowing down, there is a [huge looming housing crisis](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/95jpny/the_chinese_economic_crisis_a_comprehensive/), and Xi is looking for anything to appease the masses. Sacrificing Honk Kong definitely hurts China, but I'm seeing Xi pivoting China away from an 'Asian Tiger'-like trajectory into more of a 'Putin Russia'-like trajectory anyway, where the aim is first of all maintaining the cult of personality of the leader, second of all maintaining the outwards strength of the state, and distant third the wealth and well-being of the citizens.


Not-Doctor-Evil

>It's not about the economic output of Honk Kong. does that make it a Goose Island?


jhwyung

There's actually a ton of cities which dwarf HK in their importance to China's economy. Even in the Pearl River Delta, Shenzen (China's silicon valley) and Guangzhou (the country's manufacturing heartland) are more strategically important than HK. HK's usefulness is that it's rule of law sets it apart from the rest of the country and provides a relative safe haven for foreign companies to base their operations from. If you wanted to do business with the mainland in the past, you'd want to go through HK first. However, in view of everything that's happened in the last two years, that rule of law is eroding and companies are starting to get fidgety - lots of East Asian HQs have moved from HK to Singapore. The credit rating of the city used to be two notches higher than mainland China for precisely that reason. It was downgraded a year and a half ago so that it was only one notch higher and I can honestly see it being further downgraded since there's really no reason to see that HK is any different than the mainland. The ultimate kill shot will come when the mainland appropriates HK's sovereign wealth fund - it's about USD 480Bn last time I checked and probably top 5 largest in the world. My gut kinda tells me that this is the ultimate goal, slowly eroding the foundations until they have the leverage to take control of the wealth fund. Thatcher and Deng fought like dogs for control of the wealth fund when they were negotiating the handover.


GaijinFoot

HK is only 3% of GDP


spamholderman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund#Largest_sovereign_wealth_funds


jhwyung

Its amazing it actually grew considering they deployed funds to assist in recovery following the social unrest 2 years ago.


[deleted]

[удалено]


thomasdilson

> International companies loved doing business in HK because it was on the boarder of China, but you didn’t have to deal with the bullshit of actually being in China. That's part of the reason why China needed to stamp out HK in the first place. There's no meaning to having a strict exterior but yet allow a backdoor through all your draconian policies. China's population is *massive*. They don't *need* international companies to invest and cooperate, they will be better off with it, sure, but their society has progressed enough that it is not at all necessary for further progress. Coupled with the stranglehold they have on the world's manufacturing, it will be really hard for the actions of international corporations to cause a toppling of the country's economy, moreso if said companies are profit-driven. I don't disagree that the CCP's dictatorship can inevitably lead to the country's collapse, but killing HK will not be what causes it.


paradoxpancake

>China's population is > >massive > >. They don't > >need > >international companies to invest and cooperate, they will be better off with it, sure, but their society has progressed enough that it is not at all necessary for further progress. Coupled with the stranglehold they have on the world's manufacturing, it will be really hard for the actions of international corporations to cause a toppling of the country's economy, moreso if said companies are profit-driven. I agree with most what you said aside from China not needing international companies to invest and cooperate because all evidence based on China's own actions and even what they've outlined in their own Five Year Plans. China is trying really hard to give off the appearances to foreign investors that they'll be able to tap into China's market share, but a rising number of nation states are telling companies that they will no longer do business with them if they do -- especially if they have national security-based contracts or interests. This is largely due to the fact that China requires that any foreign company have all Internet traffic subject to their monitoring and that Chinese authorities are allowed to come in at any time to confiscate data as needed under the auspices of "national security", which they have done. It has always been suspected that China will allow a foreign company to do business in China for a time before handing off their IP or something really close to it to a local company. There is no such thing as a "private company" in China as most are connected to the CCP and/or PLA in one form or another. Back to my original point, however, in that China also would not be investing as heavily into One Belt, One Road if they didn't come to the realization that they need foreign investment/involvement into their markets, as well as the fact that Xi Jinping has put his name and face all over it. This is another reason as to why China has been investing heavily into other nations, both to increase the amount of influence China has across the globe, but also to have outside investment to support their rising rate of inflation, burgeoning population, and depletion of natural resources. The problem is that China wants to have it both ways. They want to be able to monitor, police, and confiscate intellectual property while maintaining an air of friendliness to foreign investment. The problem is that many governments have wizened up and have even publicly accused China of double standards. Many nations have allowed Chinese companies a means of foreign investment without a ton of scrutiny but the opposite has not been true. To be honest, I don't see the CCP changing their hardline stance either, which just continues to reinforce the US's strategy of isolating China in that region and abroad and making them out to be an exploitative business partner to other nation states. Something has to give somewhere, but the CCP absolutely will not give up any of their control to make it happen, which is the typical trap that every authoritarian dictator falls into. Xi Jinping's establishment of a cult of personality is going to end up biting them in the rear too. Everyone has different opinions on what is going to happen with China, but I legitimately think that they're going to continue to suffer from brain drain, isolation, and foreign investors being reluctant to invest while other nations place greater restrictions on Chinese companies in order to retaliate for China's own policies. If I was going to note any power in that region that will continue to develop and grow in the next few years, I'd probably put my money on Japan as they increasingly militarize and get trusted with a greater role in that region as a whole. In terms of burgeoning world powers, I see China trending towards decline in these next few years.


elfinhilon10

I like a lot of this discussion. However, I would have said South Korea over Japan, namely due to many of the socio-economic issues Japan faces (massive older age population, very low birth rate, crazy-high number of work hours, massive debt etc.). While South Korea does have some of those issues, it’s not as built in as Japan. That being said, this is all my guess, and I’m hardly an expert.


crunchy-lime-skies

Good write-up and I agree. China was on a decent trajectory before, but that is quickly changing and I see them turning more and more into a Russia or North Korea lite than anything else. Which makes me sad, but honestly there's not much to be done so long as CCP continues to hold all the cards there.


SmoothJazzRayner

30? Give it 5.


hinghenry

WTF 5? It HAS changed already. Am Hong Konger. Every day is a sad day here in HK.


Mild-Sauce

One of my biggest regrets is not visiting hong kong before china cracked down on its transition to one government


vive420

It used to operate almost like a city-state even after 1997. Indirect rule allowed autonomy to naturally happen. Chinese law generally didn’t apply, we could nominate and elect our own lawmakers, we had an independent judiciary, we could protest, etc. There still is an international style border between hk and China complete with passport control but hk is a shell of its former self and the NSL imposed de facto direct rule. HK government now has a high degree of autonomy in municipal services like where to place trash cans, where to dump their trash (not in the mainland, it’s HK’s problem to figure out), and managing sewage. Also HK border with China is still closed any many hkers want to keep it that way so vaccine take up is low


metalbolic

I lived in Hong Kong from 1992 to 2007, and my parents still live there. Until the time of the protests a few years ago, it felt largely unchanged (even though the seeds of it's current reality were planted long ago). Most of the negative changes up to that point were really due to modernity, SARS, and the 2008 recession. HK was definitely more fun in the early 2000's. As a 12 year old I could buy beer and smokes at any 7-11, and had a 1am curfew. Skateboarding through the city on a warm Saturday night was glorious! Felt truly free. I think most cities were more exciting and dynamic in the era preceding mobile phones. In many ways Taipei feels similar to how Hong Kong felt 15 years ago. I lived there as a little kid and recently returned, it has changed dramatically. Strongly recommend visiting Taipei before it is unrecognizable.


AJokeAmI

Wait, so China hasn't blocked off the Internet yet? Or are you using VPN?


hinghenry

Not yet, but based on the current trajectory I expect internet censorship to come very soon.


vive420

The internet still is mostly uncensored in HK but after the NSL was imposed on us, the law does allow the blocking of websites that “threaten national security” and the police can unilaterally make this decision and force any isp to do it. But this isn’t as sophisticated as the great firewall in China. It’s just a basic null routing. The GFW has a lot more going on including deep packet inspection. Many people think it is a matter of time before GFW happens.


abba08877

I think Shenzhen is starting to overshadow Hong Kong. Though, I think Shenzhen is more about tech rather than financial industries like HK.


Hollowpoint38

That's because in HK there is no capital gains tax. The laws in HK favor financial services. You can't compare the two.


I_W_M_Y

30 years will be just the right amount of time for their propaganda to work on the next generation. No one will be leaving.


pablonus

Most native Hong kongers will leave while native Chinese will move in. It will just die and become like any other Chinese city/province. Too bad. Hong Kong even with all its warts was pretty cool.


HoboG

It's only assets will be easier entry than into PRC, separate customs, and its housing market


ImmaculateTorus

why do you think Hong Kong would face an economic downturn? Most evidence points to it doing better if it were to be connected to the mainland.


OutOfBananaException

It will somehow be foreign forces to blame, of course they won't be happy


SlitScan

its always been their goal, it's why shenzhen exists.


JustCallMeBen

Taiwan is next on their list.


StrangeCharmVote

It is, but that country isn't going down without a fight. And it sure seems like a large number of other countries are interested in giving it a hand should china take a step too far. And before anyone tries to suggest the contrary. The issue china has is that its becoming obvious they aren't respecting the sovereignty of other nations. You can only do so much of that before people realize it could be them next, and would prefer to nip that shit in the bud before their turn comes up.


Lotussais

China's strategy is to go as far as they can(everywhere) and to back up when the answer is too strong, like that they still gain little by little on other subjects. What I see from the last years is a lot of major countries preparing for large scope wars. No good.


SirWhoviansCompanion

They’re following the Putin playbook. Occupy land, invent false narratives, and take control.


cbus20122

It is, but attempting to take Taiwan is orders of magnitude more risky for China than Hong Kong. That risk applies to internal stability as well as external. If China tries to take Taiwan, they risk losing the economic engine that has allowed for the rise of the CCP in the first place. If that happens, then the internal support for the CCP may come under fire for the first time in a long time. Obviously, there is intense social suppression and control internally, but if you lose the economic footing that has given the Chinese reason to allow for reduced freedoms in the first place, you risk stability regardless of how strong suppression is or isn't.


throwahuey

You’re assuming the US assists Taiwan in this event right? If the US doesn’t assist Taiwan, then it seems like China would suffer losses of a few hundred thousand people. And with Biden recently faltering on the US’ willingness to support Taiwan it’s very much in the air right now. I don’t understand how it’s not obvious to the US and all of Europe that they all need to come out in support of Taiwan. It’s literally long term self preservation: “at first they came for X....”


GreenBayGrunker

I mean, any dissent about china is illegal across the world by anyone. only a matter of time before a foreigner visits and is put in jail for a tweet they made years ago.


hokeyphenokey

My ex wife led a high school demonstration for Chinese human rights in *Yorkshire* and she was sent a letter from the embassy telling her she was wrong in her beliefs and she should stay away from China.


Desirsar

I mean... maybe... but why would I want to go there?


cuil_beans

The issue is that they are expanding their influence outwards. At some point, you may not need to physically go there for them to take action.


mykilososa

Like Tiananmen Square?!


Senor_Andy_Panda

No, no, things that the CCP DIDN'T sign off on


suddenlycumbly

My wife does something really similar, huh.


Even-Function

The CCP is the jury, the lawyer and the executioner. A sad day for HK.


madcunt2250

> the jury, the lawyer and the executioner That's not it.


wandrlusty

The judge, the jury, and the executioner


timharveyau

He's NOT Judge Judy and executioner!


tresclow

Doug Judy and executioner


EyesLikeBroccoli

Cornetto?


rpkarma

The greater good.


Tyrion_The_Imp

It's just the one killer actually


reindeerflot1lla

Yarp!


Youafuckindin

Check out his hooorse


Dr_RubberDucky

And most certainly NOT Judge Judy the Executioner!


marweking

TIL CCP = judge Dredd


[deleted]

I believe the correct phrase is: give a man an executioner, and he'll be a lawyer for a day, but teach a man to jury, and he'll be a lawyer for the rest of his life.


Whitezombie65

Jury me once, shame on you. Lawyer me twice, shame on executioner


[deleted]

Jury me once, lawyer me twice, execute chicken soup with rice.


HunterT

executioner before judge, except after jury


itsyaboieleven

The real judge jury and executioner was the friends we made along the way


DaShortRound

The stool, noose, and gallow?


Even-Function

Yeah thanks, it should be: The CCP is judge, jury and executioner, i was too pissed off.


Johncamp28

In CCP it is!


mypasswordismud

[“Bare your swords towards false western ideals like judicial independence.” ](https://www.ft.com/content/60dddd46-dc74-11e6-9d7c-be108f1c1dce) -Zhou Qiang, Supreme People’s Court president


OutOfBananaException

Oh wow, straight up admitting a fair trial is not possible, and is even discouraged.


tdewsberry

Any pro-CCP poster who claims CCP-ruled China is a democracy (EDITED) is not telling the truth. Use this quote as a rebuttal. Democracy is *impossible* without judicial independence. Also CCP China lacks a 5th amendment.


jaretok

Doesn’t CCP China lack all of the amendments… because it’s not the USA…


tdewsberry

My point is that defendants lack *rights* that they have in the USA. In China a person can't tell the police "I'm not talking to you and I want my lawyer!" They can *force* you to talk to them.


Taiwanisdabest

They even ban the jury in a common law system...... https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/23/asia/hong-kong-nsl-first-case-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html


Epoch_Unreason

Pooh Bear is the law. And the Piglets keep it that way.


spacecatbiscuits

Also worth mentioning that while the headline says "largest pro-democracy paper", it would more accurately read as "ONLY pro-democracy paper".


Another_human_3

They're just 100% fucked. But we knew that already. Everything that happens now is just a formality that was bound to occur.


Illustrious_Welder94

> Dear readers > This concludes the updates from Apple Daily English. Thank you for your support. https://en.appledaily.com/dear-readers/36KLRD6FW5HQTMKAWUHBBE5VEQ Edit: >Dear subscribers >Thank you for supporting Apple Daily and Next Magazine. We are sad to inform you that Apple Daily and Next Magazine’s web and app content will no longer be accessible at 23:59, 23 June 2021, HKT. >All current web and iOS subscriptions will not be renewed. We are ceasing all new subscriptions today. >Please note that you may have to cancel your subscription by yourself, if you subscribed through Google in-app purchase. >We would like to thank all of our readers, subscribers, advertisers, and Hongkonger for your loyal support. >If you have enquiry, please contact us: Facebook Messenger [email protected] +852 2623-9985 >Good luck, and goodbye.


carrotstix

With the CCP looming, the last sentence being "good luck and goodbye" seems ominous.


siensunshine

It’s terrifying how quickly this was shut down and that thinly veiled threat in the farewell message. I don’t think they’d experienced anything like the CCP. Would not be surprised if people are currently being disappeared.


StumpNuts

What thinly veiled threat?


mykleins

Probably the “good luck, and goodbye”, not really a threat tho, just ominous.


[deleted]

why do asian websites all look like they are from 2003


keiranlovett

The short and quick of it is that in the east densely packed information is perceived as more “professional” then a less densely or prettier website. That’s a VERY rudimentary explanation that kindda skips over a bunch of other reasons but it’s how I’ve had to explain it before. I’m based in Hong Kong and spent a few years doing UI / UX work. Here there’s always this weird flux of two competing methodologies for presenting information.


Sekitoba

I grew up internationally and worked in a local IT firm in HK. One thing i noticed was, i used google heavily, my colleague used Yahoo HK heavily. When i asked him if he is using yahoo because of habit, he mentioned that he prefers yahoo because everything is conviniently there for him whereas google requires him to type something before he can navigate there.


IAmA_Risky_Click_AMA

I don't understand what this means.


Griffisbored

He like the Yahoo homepage more than the blank white google homepage.


doMinationp

At the very core Google.com is a search engine and Yahoo.com/HK.yahoo is a web portal that aggregates information from multiple sources onto one page and also offers a search engine. Their colleague prefers Yahoo because all the information is conveniently there for him where as on Google.com they have to search or click on the Apps menu to get to the info they want


AkimboTheKing

Fuck the CCP and its puppet HK government. We HongKoners will never give up or be silenced. GFHK SDGM 光復香港 時代革命


imgurian_defector

what's the plan for next steps?


AkimboTheKing

It is looking pretty grim tbh...In the short term, I suppose most people in HK will lay low and preserve our energy for this long-term battle. I hope we may be able to organize large scale protests once the pandemic is over...though it is unlikely. Meanwhile, HKers overseas will continue to hold rallies on key dates and call on other government to place sanctions on the CCP regime.


mightymorphinekunt

There's no hope. Only option is to migrate to another country


royal_buttplug

Come to the UK please. Passports are being offered I believe


bobbydebobbob

Fuck yeah. Sadly they don't recognise dual citizenship so it's a bit of a one way ticket. Not sure if they allow them to renounce Chinese citizenship.


Captain_Clover

The UK definitely do recognise dual citizenship, unless you’re talking about Hk - and isn’t it a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell situation’ anyway?


bobbydebobbob

Had meant China don't recognize it I believe. So if you became a UK dual citizen them travelled back a few years later the protection you get from being a citizen of another country isn't quite what it could be.


Captain_Clover

Ahhh I see. Yes, going back would be a risk if you've done so much as comment anti-china things on the internet even while outside china


TheCluelessDeveloper

Once you get a UK citizenship, why would you want to keep your Chinese citizenship? You can't exactly go back without problems, right?


andersonb47

It's partly a personal thing, it's like giving up a part of who you are, even if ultimately it's just a piece of paper.


toiletpapergold

If you can't leave without losing your right to return, then you were more of a prisoner than a citizen to begin with.


OneFreamon

Just remember that document means nothing in terms of who you really are. No government can change that.


Captain_Clover

I’d imagine it depends. I have friends from HK who love the UK and would like to settle here, but still have friends and families in HK - and despite gradually becoming part of China, it’s still a lovely place to live if you’re not a political dissident.


ephemeralfugitive

My parents gave up their Chinese citizenship when they immigrated to the States, and to this day, they regret it, because while the our future and money was in the US, other family members and friends - their hometown - was back in China. They mention some perks and deeds that they had in the past that they renounced upon trading citizenship.


randomgetawaycar

Thanks for mentioning this in the ocean of calls from Western governments' and faceless Internet users on Reddit for HKers to move abroad just so they can have a "chance" to get foreign citizenship. It's not just making sure that one would be able to economically survive once they move abroad. No one mentions the emotional cost of having to give up your Chinese cultural identity in order to assimilate into white society/culture once you immigrate to US, UK, Canada, NZ, Australia, Europe, etc., which is necessary in order to fit in and transition into working and living there.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PandaCheese2016

And we’ve seen democracy clearly isn’t a requirement for achieving a decent standard of living, and perhaps the uncomfortable truth is that’s what most people would be satisfied with. It’s when they can’t find jobs or feed their families that people clamour for change, then it’s fair to ask would it be moral to say cut off trade with China to impoverish their population in the hope of forcing a political revolution. Would be very similar to the kind of regime change seen in the Middle East I feel, great on paper but sucks to be experienced first hand.


[deleted]

[удалено]


QuitBSing

Can't convince an authoritarian state with a large army through mere protest. Even if all of HK protested it would not save them in that scenario.


StanleyOpar

Yeah it's pretty much over sadly


Young_Djinn

Move to the UK


AkimboTheKing

Many of us still want to stay and fight for our beloved city.


Parsel_Tongue

Respect.


Persona_Insomnia

I get and respect that. Honestly I dont see much hope for you. You are trying to be rational with an irrational government. I just dont wanna see good innocent hong kongers being murdered while the world watches with apathy. I'm not saying you shouldn't fight, I just fear for you.


VG-enigmaticsoul

For the ∼a million hkers with foreign citizenship, leaving lmao.


Tams82

Unfortunately, you will. Sure, for now there are a lot of Hong Kongers with sentiments against the CCP. But they'll just move loyal people into Hong Kong and brainwash the young to be good party members. Eventually, you'll be outnumbered as many flee, others just keep their heads down, mianlanders move in, and the young turn against freedom.


[deleted]

Anti CCP will flee, China will move in pro CCP. It will be filled of mainlanders soon unfortunately. The CCP knows it just has to wait out time


Tams82

What I find worse is that it won't be long before some young Hong Kongers start ratting out their parents. They won't know any better, but of course that doesn't make it right.


Yoshi122

Lol it's the young hong kongers who are doing all the protests, the older generation are annoyed at all protests and want to keep status quo


1337mooer

Our future generation - jailed for voicing their grievances. Our teachers - fired for teaching students critical thinking. Our Doctors - denounced for suggesting how to stop the pandemic in the most rational way. Our justice system - in shambles with no objectivity in their ruling. Our media - silenced for speaking against the government. While murders and triads roam the streets without any repercussions. The free city of Hong Kong have collapsed in little less than two years. This is a warning to the free world on the terrors of CCP.


tingulz

It’s time the world shifts all manufacturing out of China. Hit them where it hurts most.


ThrowAway0183910

Corporations don’t care about human rights they care about the profits


learned_cheetah

Exactly. Our efforts must be toward adjusting the overall system so that their ability to earn profits must fall inline with preservation of human rights.


Purplestripes8

This goes way beyond individual corporations. Our entire economies are dependent on each other. All the people of earth are interdependent and always have been. Peace and democracy is the only way forward.


viscont_404

Democracy, yes, peace, ehh. The vast majority of positive change in the world has been via decidedly non-peaceful movements. I'm not sure why you'd think it's suddenly a valid strategy when we lack historical precedence.


gamermanh

The alternative is war between 2 nuclear powers at LEAST Our choices are peaceful solutions or likely nuclear war, which would be bad


zeejoo12

I think they are moreso referring to revolution, one day the CCP will go too far, and violence may very well be the only way. In that scenario, foreign support and the will of the Chinese people just might be enough. It won't happen in our lifetimes I'd bet, but I hope I'm wrong.


Llama_Sandwich

Because we’ve been spoon-fed the lie that “violence isn’t the answer” by the same shitty bureaucrats that take advantage of us. Those people stand to lose the most if the common man wakes up and chooses violence against them.


Ol_Gristle

All while violence is their most trusted ally.


SliceNDice69

Thank you for saying this. What's worse is that also applies to kids too. A lot of bullying goes unchecked and if the bullied retaliates, they get punished. Violence, whether people like it or not, is necessary in some cases whether on a global, national, regional, or personal level.


youwantitwhen

Consumers don’t care about human rights they care about cheap goods.


confuzedas

A good portion of the world doesn't have the luxury of choosing their products based on a moral high ground. When countries across the world have allowed wages to stagnate for 50 years, bowing once again to corporations, the purchasing power of the people is eroded to the point that buying a tv for $200 more cause it's made in country means you don't eat that month.


Sporadicinople

That's just shifting responsibility. There are so many products now that literally don't have a "made outside of China" alternative available even if you wanted to buy them. And even if there were, you can't blame people for buying the cheaper good when there's 2 options for the same product. A lot of people can't afford to vote with their wallets.


DinnerForBreakfast

Add to that the amount of research needed to figure out if a product was partially made in China. For example, there are computer companies that do not manufacture the final product in China, but some of the components they use *are* made in China. I don't even know if it's possible to buy electronics without Chinese components. Clothing is easier but still work. A shirt may have been sewn in the USA but using fabric, thread, or dye made in China. The "Made in the USA" claim doesn't even guarantee that there are no Chinese parts because the requirements is that "all or virtually all" parts be from the USA. Things that aren't a "significant" part of the final product can be from somewhere else. For a shirt, the fabric would need to be USA sourced, but the material for the tag could come from elsewhere and the shirt will still get the label because the tag is not a significant part of the shirt. It's not always possible to figure out if a product has any manufacturing ties to china. In fact I'd say it's usually impossible for the consumer to figure this out even with research.


Neato

Most *Americans* don't have the option of choosing where to purchase. Lower income people don't have the time to deal hunt or shop around for the best deal, let alone pay more to not support shitty megacorps or chinese manufacturing. So to say consumer care about X is disingenuous when the majority simply don't have a choice.


yalag

I’m always confused why comments above you get posted. Are they the younger minds of Reddit? Or bots? It’s like a large population of Reddit has no concept of global economy/corporations/trades?


HRChurchill

China has gotten too expensive to manufacture in, companies have not been setting up manufacturing in China for decades. It's all done in other asian countries with lower standard of living (Thailand, Philippines, etc.). Companies want China for their absolutely insane middle class, they have the largest market in the world for so many things.


ys393241521

It’s infrastructure related. Companies still choose to set up in China usually cause the infrastructure needed for manufacturing is already mature and ready to go and that outweighs the higher labor cost elsewhere.


wile_E_coyote_genius

I’m surprised it took this long tbh.


flimbs

Kudos to them for holding out as long as they did. Must've been really difficult.


ravoilator

The ceo of the company was arrested before this happened already, then put on bail then promptly rearrested again


covid-221g

Can Hong Kong people still use WhatsApp and western internet


[deleted]

[удалено]


imgur_com_y8suYkD

For now.


I_W_M_Y

I give about 2 or 3 years before they concoct some bs reason to install their Great Firewall for 'their wellbeing'


covid-221g

Wonder why China hasn't just implemented the 1 China 1 internet policy


shun2112

They can and they will. They have already ordered ISP to blacklist pro-democray sites. are doing it gradually. Banning google, Facebook, and other things will eventually happens.


keepyourpower

Still can, probably can’t soon.


grizw612721

Yes for now but probably not anymore in the near future, the HK gov starts to block some websites as what China’s doing


TheMusicArchivist

Yes, they can. The internet service from the West to HK goes through the building owned by one of the main universities, which was unsuccessfully sieged by armoured trucks and armed police during the 2019 protests. Whatsapp is very popular because it's not WeChat.


HamiChan

I rmb when i was a kid apple daily was just a shit meme news paper. Lol


dndto2021

Apple daily surely has its problems (e.g. I personally hate their tabloid-like reporting style, bias on US election, etc.) But all these do not change the fact that it was the only newspaper that was on the side of the pro-democrazy camp / majority of Hong Kong people. In some of the days, when all the other newspaper posted government advertisements on their front page, Apple Daily was the only newspaper who continued to report the news that people cared about.


Gaygayfish

Maybe it was and still is shitty tabloid . But to all of us who are still in Hong Kong , Apple news was one of the last few things that symbolised our freedom of expression.


swagga-dragon

Genuine question: what happened to the Hong Kong protests? I'm sure Covid somewhat dampened the movement but I feel like I remember the protests still happening during Covid. But now its been radio silence. I haven't seen any stories about large HK protests - the only news has been China assuming more and more control. Were they largely arrested?


Floconsdespoir

There's a gathering ban on any group over 4 people and police are constantly threatening to arrest anyone for "illegal assembly". There's still very strong support but people have to be careful because the national security law can be used on anything and often means months if not years in jail before you even go to court.


mongtongbong

they will shut down hk piece by piece until it is a shell of its former self


yc_hk

Already is.


frehocc

Already done


AIDSofSPACE

The agreement with the Brits planned for HK to fully integrate with the mainland by 2047. There are 3 ways this could happen: 1. Mainland adopts the same level of democracy (no way short of something crazy. Beating COVID 1 year ahead of the rest of the world actually cemented their domestic support for status quo) 2. HK quits democracy cold turkey on 2047-07-01 (no way) 3. HK gradually regress to authoritarianism as the date approaches From the perspective of Beijing, the current course of action is the only viable path toward the conclusion of Sino-British agreement. Local resistance seems to have only accelerated the agenda.


MasterOfNap

> The agreement with the Brits planned for HK to fully integrate with the mainland by 2047. The agreement wasn’t guaranteeing HK being fully integrated by 2047, it’s guaranteeing HK’s system remaining unchanged till 2047. As per article 5 of the Hong Kong Basic Law (basically the Constitution of Hong Kong): > The socialist system and policies shall not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, and the previous capitalist system and way of life shall remain unchanged for 50 years.


mongtongbong

aha but it's not socialism that they're practicing


EverythingIsNorminal

It has zero to do with local resistance. Local resistance came about because they were constantly trying to accelerate the timeline. This sums up the CCP's thinking on the agreement they made about the terms of the handover and how its timelines were and was said in 2017, BEFORE these protests started: >"Now Hong Kong has returned to the motherland’s embrace for 20 years, the Sino-British Joint Declaration, as a historical document, no longer has any practical significance, and it is not at all binding for the central government’s management over Hong Kong. The UK has no sovereignty, no power to rule and no power to supervise Hong Kong after the handover" \- China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-china/china-says-sino-british-joint-declaration-on-hong-kong-no-longer-has-meaning-idUSKBN19L1J1 It was always their plan to ignore the agreement's timelines.


Annihilicious

What do you think has been happening since 1997?


soullessroentgenium

Have we got an archive of the site?


Outlaw1607

It is truly terrifying to see a democracy* being dismantled in real time Stand with Hong Kong *a relatively free and liberal entity that gave its citizens more rights than they would have had on the mainland


ghoyjh8

>It is truly terrifying to see a democracy bsing dismantled in real time Well it's not really being dismantled since Hong Kong never had democracy to begin with. Can't really dismantle something that never existed. Hong Kong people never had the ability to vote for the chief executive of HK, the candidates as well as the election result was chosen by the party members up in Beijing. It was always just a charade of democracy but now they don't even have to keep up with the act anymore.


Maneisthebeat

> allegations that several reports had breached a controversial national security law. Does someone have more information about the laws broken? The article should really explain that but just glosses over it.


ZLVe96

The law is very vague, and that's why people hate it /fear it. It's more like - anything we deem as a risk is illegal, as opposed to these specific things are deemed to be risky and illegal.


ieya404

From a [CNN piece](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/23/media/apple-daily-closure-intl-hnk-dst/index.html): > Last year, China's ruling Communist Party moved to bring Hong Kong in line with its authoritarian rule by bypassing the city's legislature to implement the security law. It punishes anything the authorities deem to be subversion, secession, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces with up to life in prison. > While city leader Carrie Lam said back then that press freedoms would still be protected, Apple Daily staffers say they knew it was only a matter of time before they were targeted. "But it still came as a shock when it happened," said one journalist at the publication, who asked to remain anonymous out of security fears. > Since the law took effect, Apple Daily has been crippled bit by bit. Founder Jimmy Lai — already in jail for attending a pro-democracy rally — has been arrested and charged with colluding with foreign forces to endanger national security. Five of the newspaper's top editors and executives have been accused of the same crime, apparently for using articles to call for foreign governments to sanction Hong Kong.


dahuoshan

That Hunter Biden thing really bit them in the ass huh?


Adventure_Alone

What a shame when Apple Daily become THE “pro-democracy” Newspaper. As a Chinese in favor of civil liberties, I want to be absolutely clear that I am against shutting down free speech. However, Apple Daily has been an absolute piece of garbage spreading conspiracies, divisions, lies, bigotry, and hatred.


Alexevane

Imagine calling The Sun a serious media


Nevarien

Yeah right? It supported Trump with his anti-democratic voter fraud delusions and folks are here defending it like it was Unicef or something. Edit: [source](https://en.appledaily.com/article/ANJEGVJQZZB7XEQUSK7EQ5RZCQ)


calyth

Wrap your source with the Wayback Machine if you can. They're going to take down the site, so you're going to lose the source.


Dyingischill

Hong Kong is very pro Trump overall.


seihakgwai

Yup. I was in Hong Kong when Apple Daily first printed and everyone knew it was a joke. 8 year old me enjoyed it because they'd have full pages of girls of the day wearing skimpy clothing


sayitoutloud1

> they'd have full pages of girls of the day wearing skimpy clothing It's a sad day then. I'm in funeral mode like the rest of guys on this thread then.


tom_da_boom

Exactly like the Sun then lol


tsopolari

lol Apple Daily was the source of the leaked hunter biden laptop messages from last year. ofc the white media completely leaves that out.


soullessroentgenium

"I do not understand what free speech is."


btobyejiapsa

Thank you Apple Daily. It's been tough.


firsttube72

Boo. I know they were determined but their journalists kept getting arrested and last week I think they were raided and their assets froze. Their history is about to be erased by Beijing...to what end?


gbnats

One country one system is now a reality


sorrydaijin

An apple a day keeps the tyrants away.


Mccobsta

Time to go underground black markets thrive under authoritarian regimes


cosmosfan2

If we're being honest a pro-democracy newspaper serves no purpose at this stage of the handover. It is sad to see it go but a newspaper more fitting of the current status of Hong Kond will take its place.