South Koreans Now Dislike China More Than They Dislike Japan
By - Aggressive_Project
And Koreans fucking *hate* Japan too...
that says a LOT.
Japan and Korea don't get along at all(not as individual but nation) always pointing each other yelling...
And to say Korea hates China more than Japan, that's incredible.
Reminds me a bit when my girlfriend's father told us he probably hates Russia more than he hates Germany. They live in Poland. Now before anyone jumps all over me saying Germany was worse than Russia I would like to point out that he is too young to remember anything that happened during the German occupation most of his life was lived under Russian occupation so it left more of a lasting imprint his life.
Germany is 75 years ago. Russia 30 and is still more a threat then Germany which has nothing to do anymore with nazi germany. Heck I think Poland is more far right than Germany right now
Poland is way more far right then germany yes. Germany is pretty conservative. But conservative/centric so neither too left nor too right, although many idiots vote for the AfD
*"You don't get to feel that way..."*
There's always someone telling someone that on Reddit.
Your Eastern European average Joe (Poles, Romanians, etc.) would describe the Soviets as being definitively more evil than the Nazis. This opinion speaks volumes about the suffering Eastern Europeans endured post-WW2.
Idk. Communism under Lenin and Stalin was pretty fucked up. Everyone points to how bad the Nazis were, but they simply gloss over the fact that Stalin and his polices killed potentially tens of millions from starvation and overwork.
We talk about the Holocaust a lot, but we never seem to talk about the Holodomor.
I think the main reason we talk more about the Holocaust than any other atrocity in the era (and there was a fuckton all over the globe), is that the Nazi's were insane enough to document everything, keep it out in the open, and use more explicit methods than traditional.
You can go to explicit camps preserved as historical sites, built by nazi's specifically to kill people. You can read page after page of different documents talking about killing people or their discussions on how to research better mass-killing methods, you can read account after account of victims who knew what was happening to them.
This is atypical pattern. For a variety of reasons many other governments and cultures felt it best to be a lot more plausible deniability on genocide, including just the obvious that industrialized genocide is expensive. Diverting food and supplies from one area to another is cheap and leaves minimal paper trail. "Oops how did that happen"
tl;dr the Holocaust will always be the goto example of genocide because of the brazenness of it. There's too much evidence for any reasonable person to deny that people from the bottom to the top knew what they were doing and specifically intended it to happen.
The dude(stalin) literally threw people he didn't like on boat toward some siberia isle where nothing was built. Soldiers were ordered to give them food, but they didn't, so people started canibalizing on each others.
>We talk about the Holocaust a lot, but we never seem to talk about the Holodomor.
It's probably that with the Holocaust there can be no doubt as to its intents and operations, whereas with Holodomor it's not as clear cut. The other part of it is the way each atrocity was achieved, even if the situation with Holodomor was clear cut it would still be less discussed even if more people died, because of the *way* they died.
Aside from that, I think a small part is also due to the shock of the Holocaust. The people who could propagate information effectively had a lot of direct contact with the consequences of the Holocaust, not so much with Holodomor or even other Soviet crimes.
Another reason I can think of is cultural / regional. Eastern Europe and the communist states were seen as the "other", and this distinction still exists in the mindset of many people today. Germany was culturally very close to other western countries, and that means those countries' peoples are going to be more interested/involved with it. There's four major conflicts going around the world right now, one is in the news but mostly because of the connection to the USA; the others hardly get any mentions because they're that far away both culturally and regionally. So in that sense proximity(actual or perceived) to events matters.
Also, even within Holocaust itself you don't hear much about non-Jewish victims. Obviously one group of people require the most attention in this case, but the Romani, disabled, social outcasts, etc. were all treated the same way as any Jewish victim. In fact, some people don't consider the annihilation of non-Jewish victims as part of the Holocaust; I always found that odd.
The poor fucking Ukraine. 7 million. 7 fucking million.
also that was a completely different Germany. like there's not much to hate Germany for compared to Russia atm
I mean the Japanese use to be giant assholes to pretty much everyone back in the day. Then they got nuked and haven't been the same ever since.
There's still widespread anti-Korean racism in Japan, though. To the point that when the cartoon Chowder was translated into Japanese, they had to change Kimchi's name to something non-korean.
Never would I have thought kimchi would ever be anything controversial lol
Japan still celebrate kamakazie fighters and essentially ignores all of the forced "comfort" women from S Korea and China. They also use manipulated land/water territory to slight S Korea. The Japan Sea is the Japanese term for the nuetral East Sea as an example.
Most of Asia hates the rest of Asia. Nationalism is very strong all around.
Japan is not like the rest of Asian countries tho. They're not hated just because of nationalism, they're hated because they committed atrocities in WW2. They were just as bad or even worse than Nazis.
In case of Korea, they were the colonial master long before WWII, and not a gentle one.
Im half Korean, I never got to meet my maternal grandmother, but I did meet with my maternal grandfather once. He told me of how bad his family was treated by the Japanese before and during WW2. His sister (my great aunt)was forced into becoming a comfort woman, she committed suicide in 1950.
That was in 1981 when I met him, he died a couple years later.
I've been to Korea a few times and they *hate* the Japanese
> In case of Korea, they were the colonial master long before WWII, and not a gentle one.
But worse, because even today, the Japanese government downplays this, or calls them liars (e.g. the sex slaves, aka 'comfort women' who are still alive), and spins things around to make Japan look like the victim.
Each year, when Japan commemorates the end of WW2, it's always about how they suffered (atomic bombs) and how they will avoid war. (Nevermind the suffering they caused to their neighbours, nevermind any responsibility for that!).
Also their ruling party members (including prime ministers) are part of Nippon Kaigi, which is an ultranationalist organisation that glorifies their military past and envisions a revival of imperialist ideals.
These high ranking officials also pay their respects in Yasukuni Shrine, which honors their war dead including war criminals.
This (and other shit) is why Japan's neighbours can't take the Japanese government seriously when it comes to history or apologies.
Yep Unit 731 is just a taste of this.
And some ask why SK people hate the Rising Sun design when it's just a flag. Yeah like how the swastika is just a pattern.
Sigh... as an Indian "Hindu" (I'm not religious but ethnically and culturally) the Swastika situation pisses me off so much. I grew up only knowing it as a religious symbol. I left India before they taught us WW2 so I dunno how they cover it there but when I learnt about how the Nazis misused it and the trauma it still inspires in the West, especially the Jews obviously, I was very shocked. They used something that held so much spiritual value and turned it into a symbol of horrific war crimes, completely ruining it.
Yeah, I guess it's linked to the whole "Aryan Race" thing, which is a bizarre twisting of Indo-European archaeology. Nazis suck.
Man that’s a way different answer I get from the guy with it on his Honda Civic at my local 7-11.
Unfortunately this is a thing in the Japanese-car subsection of car enthusiasts circle's.
Similarly I see quite a bit of confederate flags among Italian off-road enthusiasts. It's mostly because of Dukes of Hazzard, but there are also some right-wing nutjobs.
As an American I see it this way too. I love Japan and the Japanese people, but I hate the ideology that ruled the country during WW2.
I went to university in Japan and was laughed at by a professor for suggesting that the “specially chosen women to help the Japanese war cause” from Korea and China were sex slaves. She laughed in my face as if this was a ridiculous and preposterous thing to say (and quite a few of the Japanese students laughed too when I said it). I had a great, great time studying in Japan but they teach some absolute bullshit in history classes.
Not surprising. I recently finished Dan Carlin's series Supernova in the East and oh man. I'm convinced the Japanese during ww2 were worse than the Nazis.
They were awful awful. Torture, murder, rape, killing POWs, bayoneting babies, the list goes on and on.
Yes they were absolutely psycho.
Thanks for the plug. I’ll be checking that out later this weekend!
It's their version of "Noooo, the colonists from Europe weren't that bad towards the Natives "
Pride runs deep in their culture. Our head sensei at kendo dojo is super traditional, no bullshit Japanese oncologist. Another Japanese import transfer student is the funniest kid I know that does nothing but try and help everyone. I think their newer generations are much like the rest of the world’s, where they acknowledge their elders but would like a more open/calm perspective. At least that’s my experience with Japanese in America. It’s probably miles different for those that never leave the country.
EXACTLY. Yasakuni shrine has 14 class a war criminals! To be clear Hitler fell in that category!
Japan refuses to apologize for Nanking and the comfort women and even implies it's bullshit.
Their school history books gloss over the aggression in ww2. Instead it's the poor picked on Japanese
It says a lot that all of Asia despises the Japanese
Wandering around the Hiroshima museum and overhearing a random Chinese dude explaining (in English) the *other* side of a couple of the exhibits was an enlightening experience, I tell you hwat. "Oh... So this is interesting, we call this 'The Rape of Nanking'..."
I found the Hiroshima museum disappointing. I mean it is important to highlight the atrocity of the bombing but they provided absolutely zero context whatsoever.
If you want a museum that provides all the context in the world, check out the Nazi Documentation Museum in Munich. You go to the top, and then spiral down following history. It was an unplanned but very important visit the day before we visited Dachau and gave the context needed
Another excellent example is the Holocaust museum under the memorial in Berlin. The memorial itself is too abstract and pretty underwhelming, but the museum itself definitely makes up for it. It's a gut punch.
There's another one in Hamburg, under a heavily damaged church. I spent 3 hours in tears reading every single word in there
Yeah, we got a lot more out of wandering around Hiroshima itself than the actual museum. Outside of the horror of the direct effects of the bomb, it did feel very hollow.
Especially when Japan around sporting events brings out the Rising Sun flag, which is interpreted as the Japanese version of the Confederate flag. Japanese annexation of the Korean Peninsula and Cold War policy from both an American and Soviet point of view have directly contributed to why there are two Koreas instead of one.
I went to Seoul on my honeymoon, and I was sad to learn that most of the palaces we saw were reconstructions due to the Japanese having burned the originals down.
Yeah. I went there in 2019 and was sad to learn the same. A few originals left, but overwhelmingly reconstructions.
The North Korean stance is that after the liberation from the Japanese, the US replaced the Japanese as colonial masters in the southern part of the peninsula and installed a puppet regime at the time (Syngman Rhee).
To this day, they still believe the US is an occupation force in South Korea.
South Korea IS a military strategic location. That’s WHY USA landed there and fought for it.
You’d be naive and stupid to think they came to Korea out of the goodness of their hearts.
They are hated because they don’t fucking own it like Germany. They act and lie as it never happened.
Germany's pretty unusual in that respect. Most countries are not very good at owning the dark episodes of their history. It certainly applies to the USA, UK, France and others.
I still have the occasional argument with French people on Reddit over how maybe, just maybe, their absolutely brutal slave operation on Haiti is why the rebellion was so bloody. Nah, the illiterate shackle-bound 25 year life expectancy Haitian slaves should have shown more class...
To be frank, Germany was forced to do so by the victorious Allies. The West was probably sick of the Germans after two world wars, so they forced the nation to pretty much apologize for everything post-Second World War.
Unlike Japan and even Italy, Germany was humiliated and split into pieces: a world power turned into a puppet between the capitalist West and the communist East.
Germany was pretty much sweeping it under the rug until the late 60s though. It was mostly the generation born after the war that put a ton of pressure on their parents to fucking talk about what happened and to finally get rid of all the former nazi officials who were still in positions of power twenty years after the war.
Forced to do so? After the war a few top Nazi officials were convicted but West Germany as a whole still had Nazis in high ranking positions for example. Up until the 1970s it was quite taboo to discuss the war and many people kept quiet about it. It was only in the 1970s when children of the WW2 generation began to question the actions of their parents and there was a dam break.
They were the real heroes. It must have taken serious courage to face up to what your parents' generation had done like that. I have a lot of respect for the nation that Germany has become.
And then the establishment started trying to kill them for talking about it, which led to twenty years of terrorism.
Post-war West Germany was fucking awful in many, many respects.
>so they forced the nation to pretty much apologize for everything post-Second World War.
Yeah, nah until the 70s Germany was dealing with the war exactly the same way the Japanese do to this day.
Which was good and dandy with(most of) the allies, because of the Soviets right at our doorstep.
No, you are wrong. The Allies deliberately left Nazis in crucial positions to get the country running again as a bulwark against the soviets ASAP. It was the German version of the '68ers that asked their parents "what the fuck was wrong with you". A lot of German politicians of left leaning parties (eg. Sigmar Gabriel) openly broke with their parents over Nazi ideologies.
The US only wanted to limit the worst parts of Nazi ideology (after all, they agreed on *a lot* of points, especially race theory) while the British wanted to make Germany into a nuclear minefield (project Blue Peacock). Nobody gave shit about cultivating a society that owned its past.
Even many young Japanese-American leftists don’t get it. I’ve seen half-white, half-Japanese kids on TikTok say “I’m half colonizer, half Japanese.” Um, I hate to tell ya…
The many viral tweets I’ve seen saying that Japan’s only act of aggression in WW2 was bombing Pearl Harbor don’t help. No atrocity justifies nukes or ethnic internment, but at least approach “west bad” with some nuance.
FWIR very little about the Japanese atrocities in their school system, and anecdotally speaking as an American I don't think I ever learned much about it either in school.
That's hardly unique to Japan though. British children don't learn about their historical war crimes for example.
To be fair, there is a lot of history and history classes in the lower levels is a speed run through the past.
Also, history classes have to draw a balance between the good and bad of the country. It shouldn’t be all about triumphs, but it also shouldn’t be a “this is what we did badly” tour to cause a pupil to despise the nation.
This is the same in Japan, but people seem to not realize their education system faces the same challenges of balancing all parts of history.
In the Netherlands we learn about our colonial past during history class, depending on what subjects you choose you might not learn a huge deal about it (like me, I dropped history in favour of all the sciences I could get my hands on).
From the East India Company and it's atrocities, to the war of Indonesian Independence, sadly the war was still reffered to as the Policing Actions in my time, instead of what it really was, us being on the wrong side of history, denying the people of Indonesia their independence and freedom (ironic, seeing as we had just gone through occupation by Nazi Germany ourselves).
Indonesia gets talked about a lot but the Dutch history classes infamously skim over the warcrimes the Dutch committed when Indonesia wanted independence. Or how the Dutch asked the Japanese to continue to occupy Indonesia until the Dutch army arrived.
That's good. When I was a kid in the UK we didn't really study the British Empire. For that period of history we focused on the industrial revolution. I remember we briefly looked at Ireland and also the trans-Atlantic slave trade, but there's so much more we could have learnt about the the Empire.
To be fair to the Dutch, the Indonesian independence movement did somewhat let themselves down by supporting the Japanese, who were far worse to the locals than the Dutch ever had been.
Long before that also..
The Mimizuka (耳塚, "Ear Mound", often translated as "Ear Tomb"), an alteration of the original Hanazuka “Nose Mound" is a monument in Kyoto, Japan, dedicated to the sliced noses of killed Korean soldiers and civilians as well as Ming Chinese troops taken as war trophies during the Japanese invasions of Korea from 1592 to 1598.
Look at Europe now, nobody hates or blames modern Germany for it's role in WW2. Germany changed, DRASTICALLY after WW2. Japan however, didn't. It doesn't own it's crimes unlike the Germans.
No, there’s still quite a few Europeans that hates Germany.
Perhaps British people don’t hate the Germans, but I’ve met a handful of polish people that do.
Uh, as a German I had different experiences.
You still get a healthy dose of hatred if you visit certain European countries.
Worst experience was the UK.
I'm British, yeah sorry about that. The majority of us do not harbour any hatred for the Germans for the crimes of their forefathers. Hell, we're barely in a position to talk about "crimes of forefathers" because of the Empire thing.
I bet it is more football rivalry related than actual political hatred. I only say this because I am Welsh, and I've never met a fellow Welshman that hates the Germans. We do not have a rivalry with the Germans unlike the English, but we "hate" the English whenever it comes to sport.
Nothing like sports to make humans hate each other.
While true, sports is a safer way to channel that hate than how it was in the past. I think that is a big reason why sports are so popular actually.
IIRC, In the Roman Empire their sports teams (chariot racing) basically represented political factions, to the point where one of the deadliest riots in history was essentially a [sixth century sports riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots) because the crowd was pissed at the emperor.
An absolute truth, made plain during Olympic and World Cup years.
I never thought the Olympics had that issue but definitley seen it in World Cup and Euro's etc.
Sorry about that. There are alot of dickheads in the UK for sure.
>Look at Europe now, nobody hates or blames modern Germany for it's role in WW2.
Polish government does.
erdogan isn't above playing the nazi card either
Yea but they desperately *need* someone to hate and Germany is the easy and safe option. They are built on "us v them" and, you know, with the Polish-German history in mind, there's a bright and obvious target for that.
>Look at Europe now, nobody hates or blames modern Germany for it's role in WW2
That's not true. A lot of people in Poland still do, Hungary is blaming Germany for Hungary's involvement in WW2, etc.
Yes, its our favourite past time hobby.
Not Singapore. We love everyone. Because we know if we don't we'd probably be in deep shit.
>!I know it's more nuanced but this is a joke dammit!<
This is not really true, Japan has quite good relations with most of Asia like Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Mongolia and Malaysia. And that's despite all the shit they did in WW2.
It is primarily China and both North and South Korea that hate Japan.
All Pew Research polls done in the region shows what you said is the case. I think most people will tend to naturally move on from what has happened in the past and focus on having a good future oriented relationship right now as long as you respect them. As it stands right now Chinese hegemonism is a way bigger threat to a majority of Asian countries than Japan. The latter as a whole both politically and culturally has been firmly pacifist and non-interventionist since the end of WW2.
Japan and Taiwan are really close actually.
Taiwan was colony of Japan during WW2. I heard some Taiwanese even fought on the Japan side. it was only after WW2 that it got partitioned to China's ROC govt. Then ROC govt retreated to Taiwan even though they didn't give af about Taiwan and wanted to retake China. Then 70 years passed and Taiwan went from dictatorship, martial law, to new democracy, to being 3rd in Democracy Index in Asia/Oceania behind New Zealand, Australia.
I'd say a big part of why Taiwanese people view positively on previous colonizer really is a matter of comparison. During the White Terror era, it was so bad that there was even a saying "After the dogs left, the pigs came".
It's weird, because what you said is true, but Taiwan also had some battles with Japan - obviously, considering the occupation. My great-grandfather was part of the navy that fought the Japanese (And lost), for example. In more recent time, there's some strife with an island between Taiwan, China, and Japan. (Senkaku Islands/Diaoyudao/Diaoyutai, 3 different names referring to the same island. Wew.)
Edit: Those conflict has since died down for the most parts between Japan and Taiwan, and really it's only the older generations care or even know about it.
Otherwise, yeah, you are right.
According to recent polls Japan is the most favoured country in Taiwan and vice versa.
As a Filipino, I can attest to this. I love our traditional allies (the US), but I wish we could have closer ties with Japan, both in economics and defense
My boyfriend is a 1st gen Korean-American and his dad fucking *despises* Japan. There was a recent(?) instance where Japan tried to say a historically Korean island was theirs, and his dad got everyone in the family to sign a national petition and donate money for it. He also only addresses Japan and its people with derogatory speech when he talks about them which is completely unlike him. I guess when your people are killed and your women are raped by Japan’s soldiers for a decent chunk of your country’s history, you’re not going to forgive them, especially when Japan tries to deny any of it ever happened.
When you hear stories about the shit that went down back in WWII… it’s kind of hard not to hate. Almost every family that lived in an area occupied by the Japanese Imperial army has a horrific story to tell. My grandma’s pregnant aunt was murdered, her baby sliced out of her stomach.
There’s tons we are taught in schools like the sex slaves, mass rape, the death March, cruel torture of everyone: POW, rebels and ordinary citizens. The Japanese imperial army were nothing short of SADIST. Truly evil incarnate back then.
But everyone likes Japan now in my country because of food and anime. The Japanese people are greatly admired for their discipline and clean, orderly streets and low crime rates. Relations are very good. Japanese embassy always holds events and they are PACKED with weebs.
Yeah, people don't realize the kind of insane shit like that were talking about. Bayoneting people in hospital beds, hacking people limbs apart with swords for a laugh, bayoneting children, cutting people genitals off and shoving them in their mouths, truly horrific.
I've often thought I'd rather be occupied by the Mongols than the imperial Japanese army.
As an American all i have to do to see how japan was- is look at the accounts of the American soldiers the japanese had as POW’s. I have no doubt they did all the things they’re denying
There's mountains of physical evidence, photographs, first hand accounts. The Japanese don't have a leg to stand on trying to deny it really.
Dokdo is still a massive sticking point here in Korea, I remember a couple weeks ago seeing a handcart with DO YOU KNOW DOKDO painted on the side in all caps
is there any significance to Dokdo other than historically being a disputed territory?
Not really. But it is the only disputed land between Korea and Japan, and Koreans are understandably touchy about Japan claiming any part of Korean land* as theirs because, you know, colonialism.
*Obviously “Korean land” from the Korean perspective, I’m sure Japan sees it as rightfully theirs.
In Japan, in people 30 and below there’s a huge huge love of K-POP and Korean culture that’s been sweeping the country for several years. The old geezers here are gonna have to fight to get their grandkids to join the hate bandwagon.
But flip the coin and it’s understandable why Koreans hate the Japanese. The shit they did, not even just in ww2, was atrocious.
Some Japanese military leaders, while occupying Korea, got pissed at the Korean queen. She was outspoken and they decided to do something about it. So they sent dozens of elite forces to her residence, killed anyone that got in their way while they tried to find her, and then murdered the queen. If I remember correctly, after murdering her they raped her corpse, mutilated it, and then burned it.
This isn't ancient history. It was a little over 100 years ago. And Japan controlled Korea until 1945. People alive today still remember them being there.
That reminds me of this quote.
"I like Ted Cruz more than most of my other colleagues like Ted Cruz. And I hate Ted Cruz." ~ Al Franken
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/world/asia/korea-china-election-young-voters.html) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
> Anti-Chinese sentiment has grown so much this year that China has replaced Japan - the former colonial ruler - as the country regarded most unfavorably in South Korea, according to a ?joint ?survey by ?the polling company ?Hankook Research? and the Korean newsmagazine SisaIN. In the same survey, South Koreans said they favored the United States over China six to one.
> Negative views of China have deepened in other advanced countries as well, but among the 14 nations surveyed last year by Pew Research Center, South Korea was the only one in which younger people held more unfavorable views toward China than previous generations.
> Nowhere has South Korea's dilemma between Washington and Beijing been magnified more dramatically than over the deployment of the American antimissile radar, known as the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense, or THAAD.When South Korean officials agreed to the deployment, they called it a necessity in defending against North Korea.
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/p7xpjh/south_koreans_now_dislike_china_more_than_they/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~593799 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **South**^#1 **China**^#2 **Korean**^#3 **Korea**^#4 **country**^#5
Can we get a compiled list of how much each individual Asian nation hates every other Asian nation?
[Here you are](https://i.imgflip.com/3eqjd8.jpg)
Ahh what is good old balkan nation hate map doing here?
is not true balkan hate map since macedonians not depicted as actual spider
I bet Nepal is pretty chill with like, Bhutan.
Not after Bhutan deported a bunch of people who speak Nepali
whoop I guess the meme holds up...
Don't even need the "/s"
On this train of thought - we could do it for every nation in the world. We could make a whole academic discipline out of it.
I'm thinking we call it trans-regional-affairs, or maybe geo-politics for short. Idk just spitballing.
Here you go. a three minute long video "[A Geography of Who Hates Who | The Daily Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWX0bbGAd0k)" . Anyone got anything better than this?
Korean here. This is wrong, for I equally hate both of them.
In college I joking asked my Korean roommate, "Brian, why do Koreans hate so much?" He thought about it for a second and said, "Ming, if you spent your life stuck between China and Japan, you'd hate too."
Wherever you are in life, take care Brian. Hate on brother.
Someone once said, im not racist for i hate everyone.
Koreans indeed hate everyone, japanese, chinese, people from other parts of korea.
😂 I think most Koreans hate everyone besides themselves 👏
Wrong. We hate each others. Even I hate myself too!
Haha yes, I was thinking this sounded a lot like groundskeeper willies view of the scotts
You've just made an enemy for life
you guys hate each other so much you've been officially at war with each other for like 60 years
So you're like Scots?
"You Koreans sure are a contentious people" "you just made an enemy for life!"
But we all love kimchi.
Ya’ll sound like NYers
I always felt like it was worse in Philly. New Yorkers are very short, direct, and to the point. Philly people fight one another at sports games even if they all cheer for the same team. The scene of Always Sunny where Mac is on the bridge with country Mac and people drive by shouting at him to just jump already really hit it. “Brotherly love” my ass.
Freshman year of college in Philly, my first assignment in writing class was:
Why is Philadelphia such a bitter city?
It was actually a legitimate assignment.
What were your findings?
Nah Koreans really hate themselves, it's just usually eclipsed by their hate for their neighbors.
Korean coworker will avoid certain stores because she doesn't want to talk to other Koreans.
This is more of a “Korean immigrant” thing (as in Koreans who immigrated to other countries) than a Korean thing.
Source: was a Korean immigrant for 11 years before I moved back
Because Koreans **love** gossip and being materialistic is a real thing for Koreans. Your wife got a nice Louis Vuitton purse? Her friend now has to get a more expensive one. Its all about bragging rights, that's why they want their children to be doctors or lawyers. Not to better mankind but to brag about how successful their kid is.
Source: Im half Korean
Same here in Pakistan. Maybe it's the ~~continent's~~ planet's fault.
Edit: I realized the error in my thinking
Lol not just the continent. I am half Jamaican, half Italian, and a first generation American on the Jamaican side and I am a doctor and my two brothers are a lawyer and an engineer. Growing up you’d think those are the only three jobs in the world
As I understand it, Cantonese in general raises insults and slurs to an art form.
Can anyone give some examples?
Pok gai -“i hope you trip on the street and die”
To paraphrase a history professor I had in college, nobody hates Asians more than Asians.
Let’s just agree and hate everyone equally so nobody is left out here
Given the history Japan has with Korea, that's really saying something
Few perspective as a Korean:
There is a lot of anti-china news in Korean media similar to the west. I don't even know the last time i read a remotely good news about China in Korean media. A good example of this is the controversies surrounding the origins of kimchi. You had few Chinese trolls making claims that kimchi originated in China. Then Korean media took few social media posts made by these people and made it into a massive news.
There is also a long tradition of mega corporations in Korea blaming China for pollution in the country in order to shift responsibilities. They've succeeded because majority of Koreans blame the bad air quality of the country on China.
Korean perception of China has also been always negative due to the Korean war
Finally, probably the biggest reason, is that the country is seeing a big spike in the rise of rightwing movement especially in young men (like every other country)
There are a lot more other reasons but i am not surprised that young koreans are starting to hate China
Spent some time in Jeju and found the china hate pretty high while there. While on the mainland didn't see anything the same. Genuinely asking is the hate against tourists mostly?
edit: anyone been lately and had the burgers from 86 in Seogwipo, fried chicken place across the road was fantastic as well. Just woke up and random craving
Korean tourism took a major hit a decade back when Chinese tourists dwindled overnight.
Jeju Island is a tourism dependent place. They would have been hit hard.
I've seen this everywhere (worked in the airport for 3 years, some people were there for over 30years).
We hate tourists from country x, blah blah blah. Fast forward a few years, where did they go? Please come back! Filthy morons, I need your money. My dad was in the tourism industry for over 20 years, everyone hates the Chinese but loves the dollar bills, but you can't have it both ways.
People hated the Japanese buying everything in the 80s, then the Americans, then the Chinese, so on and so forth. When they stop coming, they start blaming them on how they can't take advantage of these people. One of the worst and best people I've seen are American tourists actually. The most disturbing are Russians (1 litre of Vodka before the flight) and Australians (I'm going to Thailand to touch kids).
As Chinese myself, I live on Kimchi, it’s a must have in my fridge. The Kimchi thing was so silly I honestly thought it was just an joke or some Chinese internet trolls stirring up nonsense which no one bought, I never knew it was taken so seriously in Korea.
> A good example of this is the controversies surrounding the origins of kimchi. You had few Chinese trolls making claims that kimchi originated in China. Then Korean media took few social media posts made by these people and made it into a massive news.
These "controversies" stem from a translation error as 泡菜 is clearly different from 韩国泡菜 in Chinese. The former is Chinese "kimchi", and the latter is Korean kimchi.
Note: one of the more well-known versions of 泡菜 is 四川泡菜. Feel free to Google "[paocai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_cai)" and "Sichuan paocai" and compare them with [kimchi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi).
Here is what a subset of 泡菜 (Chinese "kimchi") looks like:
* [Video 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq0UVAUC-1s)
* [Video 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tule3tH43Do)
* [Video 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua-TSz52LKo)
And here is what 韩国泡菜 (Korean kimchi) looks like:
* [Video 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5iEnAcuQkc)
* [Video 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTucCw1w6Ak)
* [Video 3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11qbSC5gPE)
* [Bonus video from a Korean mother who partially speaks Mandarin in her videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JppuxYqUiYw)
Preserved vegetables both, in case people are wondering if it's a huge error.
The latter literally means Korean preserved vegetables and the former means preserved vegetables (for the same reason people in China don't call food "Chinese food")
Well I've never met any chinese person, or any sane person claim that kimchi came from China. Lol even in China where they bulk produce kimchi, locals usually buy those that has Hangul print on them since it looks more authentic. I truly think this whole kimchi debacle hit the media because of dumb trolls, and poor translation. But I get how sensitive issues are in Korea since they've been through alot and dragged through the mud in history. I just hope the hate doesn't fester into outright sinophobia?
I mean, doesn’t lots of Europe also regularly eat fermented cabbage? It’s very German, and very polish, and is a “native” food to both cultures.
The dish is super tied to their culture. It's part of the national identity, so it's easy to be riled up over it as a perceived attack on their culture. Add to that, Korean media portrays it like a Chinese government sponsored attempt to limit Korean culture and make it seem like a province of China or that all of its culture comes from China.
Also worth noting that South Korea is an ally of US, and there's a lot of US influence on the back scenes. As US and China tension grew, the media will obviously went harder and harder to one direction. Plus it's so easy to find dirt on CCP.
I think the gradual dying off of the older generations accounts for nearly all of it. Aside from a petty dispute over Takeshima/Dokdo, the modern Korea-Japan beef is rooted *primarily* in WW2 and the occupation of Korea -- not in anything either country has done recently. (Except of course, current actions and statements in relation to WW2)
The beefs with China are almost all in the present tense.
I've occasionally seen the anti-China/Xi protesters rally in Gwangwhamun and it is jarring to see them carry a bunch of American flags ... makes sense though
When I was in Seoul, all of the trains had slogans like don't buy Japanese goods/products. Are you seeing anything like that for China?
I am. They should redirect it right back at Japan. Disgusting creatures over there.
I’m not even mad at China or North Korea. After what they’ve been through the last couple hundred years, I’m not surprised they’re going to the extreme to avoid another invasion and having their people killed and women/children raped.
Keepin it real
South Koreans Now Dislike China More Than They Dislike Japan
There is growing anti-China sentiment in South Korea, particularly among young voters. Conservative politicians are eager to turn the antipathy into a presidential election issue.
SEOUL — The list of election issues set to define South Korea’s presidential race next year is long. The runaway housing prices, the pandemic, North Korea and gender inequality are a start. But an unlikely addition has also emerged in recent weeks: China.
South Korea’s decision to let the American military deploy a powerful antimissile radar system on its soil in 2017 has been the subject of frequent criticism from China. And last month, a presidential hopeful, Yoon Seok-youl, told the country to stop complaining, unless it wanted to remove its own radar systems near the Korean Peninsula.
Political elites here are usually careful not to antagonize China, the country’s largest trading partner. But Mr. Yoon’s blunt rhetoric reflected a new phenomenon: a growing antipathy toward Beijing among South Koreans, particularly young voters whom conservative politicians are eager to win over.
Anti-Chinese sentiment has grown so much this year that China has replaced Japan — the former colonial ruler — as the country regarded most unfavorably in South Korea, according to a joint survey by the polling company Hankook Research and the Korean newsmagazine SisaIN. In the same survey, South Koreans said they favored the United States over China six to one.
Over 58 percent of the 1,000 respondents called China “close to evil” while only 4.5 percent said that it was “close to good.”
Negative views of China have deepened in other advanced countries as well, but among the 14 nations surveyed last year by Pew Research Center, South Korea was the only one in which younger people held more unfavorable views toward China than previous generations.
“Until now, hating Japan was such a part of Korean national identity that we have a common saying: You know you are a real Korean when you feel hateful toward Japan for no particular reason,” said Jeong Han-wool, a chief analyst at Hankook Research. “In our survey, people in their 40s and older still disliked Japan more than China. But those in their 20s and 30s, the generation who will lead South Korea in the coming decades, tipped the scale against China.”
South Korea elects its next president in March, and observers are watching closely to see how younger people vote on the country’s policy toward Beijing.
Conservatives in South Korea have called anything less than full-throated support of the alliance with Washington “pro-North Korean” and “pro-Chinese.” Progressives usually support reconciliation with North Korea and calls for diplomatic “autonomy” between the United States and China. Younger South Koreans have traditionally voted progressive, but millennials are breaking that pattern, and possibly turning into swing voters.
“We feel frustrated when we see our government act spineless while Beijing behaves like a bully,” said Chang Jae-min, a 29-year-old voter in Seoul. “But we also don’t want too much tension with China or North Korea.”
For decades, South Korea has benefited from a military alliance with the United States while cultivating trade ties with China to fuel economic growth. But that balance has become increasingly difficult to maintain as relations between Washington and Beijing deteriorate.
President Moon Jae-in’s conservative rivals, like Mr. Yoon, have complained that South Korea’s ambiguous policy on the United States and China made the country the “weakest link” in the American-led coalition of democracies working to confront Chinese aggression.
“We cannot remain ambiguous,” Mr. Yoon told JoongAng Ilbo, a South Korean daily, last month during an interview in which he made his critical remarks about China.
The conservative opposition has long accused Mr. Moon of being “pro-China.” His government has maintained that South Korea — like other American allies, including those in Europe — should avoid alienating either power. While South Koreans overwhelmingly support the alliance with Washington, the country’s trade with China is almost as big as its trade with the United States, Japan and the European Union combined.
“We cannot pick sides,” Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong has said.
Yet when Mr. Moon met with President Biden in Washington in May, the two leaders emphasized the importance of preserving “peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait,” and vowed to make their alliance “a linchpin for the regional and global order.” Many analysts saw the statement as a sign that South Korea was aligning itself more closely with Washington at the risk of irritating China, which has called Taiwan a red line.
The main conservative opposition, the People Power Party, has already begun harnessing young voters’ anti-China sentiment to secure electoral wins.
In April, young voters helped deliver landslide victories for the party in the mayoral races in South Korea’s two largest cities. Last month, the party’s young leader, Lee Jun-seok, 36, said his fellow South Korean millennials would fight against Chinese “cruelty” in places like Hong Kong and Xinjiang, where China has been accused of genocide.
Older Koreans, while often anti-Communist, tend to respect Chinese culture, which influenced the Korean Peninsula for millenniums. They have also looked upon the country as a benign giant whose rapid economic growth was a boon for South Korean exporters. Younger South Koreans tend not to share that perspective.
Most of them grew up proud of their homegrown economic and cultural successes. And as China’s foreign policy became more assertive under President Xi Jinping, they began to see the country’s authoritarianism as a threat to free society. They have also been critical of China’s handling of the coronavirus, its expansionism in the South China Sea and fine-dust pollution from China that regularly blankets Seoul.
“They have grown up in a liberal environment the earlier generations built through sweat and blood, so they hold an inherent antipathy toward illiberal countries,” said Ahn Byong-jin, a political scientist at Kyung Hee University in Seoul. “They root for politicians who criticize China.”
Nowhere has South Korea’s dilemma between Washington and Beijing been magnified more dramatically than over the deployment of the American antimissile radar, known as the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense, or THAAD.
When South Korean officials agreed to the deployment, they called it a necessity in defending against North Korea. China saw it as part of a continuing threat from the United States military presence in the region, and retaliated by curbing tourism to South Korea and boycotting the country’s cars, smartphones, shopping malls and TV shows.
Ha Nam-suk, a professor of Chinese politics and economy at the University of Seoul, has monitored how deepening animosity toward Beijing has played out on and off campuses in recent years, as cash-starved South Korean universities began accepting more Chinese students.
South Korean and Chinese students clashed over whether to support young pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong, he said. They have also gotten into spats online over K-pop and kimchi. In March, many young South Koreans forced a TV station to cancel a drama series after it showed an ancient Korean king dining on Chinese dumplings.
“As they watched what China did in places like Hong Kong,” Mr. Ha said, “Koreans began asking themselves what it would be like to live under a greater sphere of Chinese influence.”
I really like this kind of news. Every country should release this. “Mozambique now likes France”
We need to know! How else would people know what to like or dislike?
Friendship ended with SPAIN
It's really hard to find news sources that don't add in "fluff" or "sensational" articles. I feel like I don't even have a go-to anymore.
It’s like People but for folks with world affairs interests!
Might actually be useful. Just find whatever country the US likes and then you can know that they're probably awful.
Enemyship ended with JAPAN
Now CHINA is my worst enemy
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Lol in the original kr article it shows that koreans blame china for the hate crimes in america.. good to know conspiratorial conservatives are alive and well everywhere.
Korea has a lot of valid concerns such as fishing bullying and 60% of their pollution coming from china. But their conservative party is pushing the same nonsense conspiracies that caused the hate crimes in america in the first place.
> Lol in the original kr article it shows that koreans blame china for the hate crimes in america.. good to know conspiratorial conservatives are alive and well everywhere.
The difference is that American media admonishes conspiracists and extremists in the US but supports them in other countries.
The NYT especially has a history of biased reporting on China, for example:
>Imagine a parallel world where the US brought Covid under control in two months, while China still struggled with it, a year and hundreds of thousands of deaths later. And in this alternative universe, a leading Chinese paper runs an article on the US’s “efforts to hide its missteps” in the Covid pandemic. What kind of contempt would you have for that propaganda outlet, and for so-called journalists who would engage in such a transparent effort to distract from their own nation’s failures?
>Well, that’s how you should feel about our own world’s New York Times, which ran an article (1/10/21) with the subhead, “The Chinese Communist Party’s efforts to hide its missteps have taken on new urgency as the anniversary of the world’s first Covid-19 lockdown nears.” [...]
>The genuinely remarkable thing is that the New York Times, the US’s most prestigious newspaper, has devoted considerable resources to investigating why China didn’t address the pandemic even more quickly and effectively than it did (FAIR.org, 10/14/20, 1/20/21). These exposés of China’s “missteps” generally boil down to Beijing not taking the virus seriously enough before January 23, 2020, when it put the entire city of Wuhan in quarantine—at which point the virus had been implicated in 17 deaths. To put that in perspective, there were 16 deaths from Covid yesterday just in New Hampshire, the US’s 10th smallest state. [...]
>If maintaining that China’s Covid response wasn’t really all that great doesn’t seem plausible, maybe you could argue that it was *too* good? That was the actual argument of a New York Times op-ed (1/24/20), headlined “Has China Done Too Well Against Covid-19?”
>The main evidence presented by author Yanzhong Huang that China was suffering from not enough people dying is that it is “over-exporting vaccines made in China in a bid to expand its influence internationally.” By this, Huang means that China is sending many of the doses it manufactures to places like Brazil, where a thousand people are killed by Covid every day, rather than keeping most of them at home, where Covid kills one or two people each day. If only the Chinese people had experienced mass death like we did to teach them the value of hoarding.
>Huang, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, also claims that in China, “the population feels much safer than it should.” He cites as evidence a cross-national Ipsos survey (12/29/20) that found that just 80% of respondents in China would take a Covid vaccine if one were available. Huang doesn’t mention that that was the *highest* positive response rate among the 15 countries polled—compared to 69% in the US and only 40% in France, countries that have certainly not suffered from doing too well against Covid. [...]
>Too good or not good enough, China’s coronavirus response is an obsession of the New York Times. On January 25, the front page of the Times‘ print edition was dominated by an ominous above-the-fold photo of people in protective gear behind police tape reading “DO NOT CROSS,” with a caption headline “Another Wave of Covid-19 Hits Hong Kong.” This “wave” consisted of residents of Hong Kong (population 7.5 million) coming down with Covid at the rate of 75 a day—whereas in New York City (population 8.4 million), people are catching it at the rate of about 4,000 a day. But the context that Hong Kong’s outbreak was roughly 1/50th as bad as what’s considered business as usual in the Times‘ hometown was entirely missing from the scary photo and caption on the paper’s front page.
>Why make a relatively tiny outbreak of the coronavirus on the other side of the world front-page news at the New York Times? Like Donald Trump, the paper is certainly aware of the propaganda value of pointing to China as a scary danger—as illustrated by an ostensibly unrelated story adjacent on the same front page, with the print headline “US Counters Space Threat From China.” In that article, a gaggle of retired generals, now at weapons industry–funded think tanks, used Beijing to make the case that maybe Space Force wasn’t such a wacky idea after all.
>You know you’re in for a hard sell when the New York Times (3/29/21) publishes an article under the headline “An Alliance of Autocracies? China Wants to Lead a New World Order.”
>And Times Beijing bureau chief Steven Lee Myers doesn’t disappoint. He asserts:
>>China hopes to position itself as the main challenger to an international order, led by the United States, that is generally guided by principles of democracy, respect for human rights and adherence to rule of law.
>“Generally” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. I don’t think I have to spend too much time reminding you that the United States is a massive supporter of coups and undemocratic governments; has an ongoing history of torture, detention without trial and extrajudicial killing; and asserts the right to invade and coerce countries in defiance of international law. But it’s what Myers does with this deceptive summary of US policy that I find most striking; he immediately follows with:
>>Such a system “does not represent the will of the international community,” China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, told Russia’s, Sergey V. Lavrov, when they met in the southern Chinese city of Guilin.
>Wang, like the New York Times, defines the US-led international order as one based in democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and says that doesn’t represent “the will of the international community”? That doesn’t seem likely. When you search for the part of the quote that’s actually in quotation marks, you find this release (3/26/21) from the Chinese government:
>>Wang Yi said, the so-called “rules-based international order” by a few countries is not clear in its meaning, as it reflects the rules of a few countries and does not represent the will of the international community.
>So what Wang actually said China was challenging is the “rules-based international order”—which he suggested doesn’t deserve its name, since only a handful of countries get to make the rules. He didn’t mention democracy or human rights in the statement; as for the rule of law, he said, “We should uphold the universally recognised international law.”
This is an amazing write up. Thanks for taking the time to compile it.
Jesus I didn’t realise the propaganda was so flagrant.
Did you read the Human Rights Watch's article on how China building a hydroelectric dam is a human rights disaster? It displaced 5000 people but provides power for around 350,000 people. Such a catastrophe!
One of the greatest breakdowns of American "free press" I've ever seen on a mainstream subreddit.
All vietnamese would like to say to korean: join the club.
That’s a sweeping generalistic stmt right there as a title
There was a comment in a korean youtube video i saw that said something like:
“We (Koreans) hate the Japanese because we are Korean; we hate the Chinese because we are humans.”
I’m not one for racism but the China hate has gotten VERY strong here recently.
Youtube comment is probably not a good measurement of a country's general sentiment of another
It's interesting hearing many of my Korean friends here who are usually very open-minded seemingly harden against anything and everything Chinese these days. I recently suggested getting food in 대림 because I wanted proper Chinese that wasn't, like, jjajangmyeon and was shot down instantly
As a Korean, I'll try to make an analogy.
Japan is like the next door neighbor that you have issues with: their dog bit your dog and they never really apologised, they mow their lawn at 6am on sundays, we disagree with where my land ends and theirs starts, etc. Other than those issues you two get along not too badly. You know that at the end of the day he's a normal guy like you and are willing to get along with him if issues are resolved. Also, your kids are getting along and that's great.
China is like the neighborhood thug. Even in the times you get along you are always uneasy, and you know that if given the opportunity he will kill you for your property. He feels no obligation to abide by the law, is narcisstic and is fundumentally an existental threat which has been noticably aggressive recently. Also he sells drugs to your methhead sibling.
"Their dog bit your dog and they never really apologised"
Don't forget that neighbor also stormed your house burned it down and raped your wife.
Except Japan is also the neighbour who stormed into your house and began telling you how to live and follow the rules in their house.
The neighbor that stormed your house, my house and a few others in our neighborhood. Then proceeded to set up brothels, meth labs, and torture chambers in them.
Forcing your wife, daughter, sister to work in the brothel.
More like Japan is the neighbour who’s great grandfather stormed your house and raped then killed your great grandmother. Yes terrible and hard to forget but you can hardly blame the current grandkids who live there.
Bill Burr said it first. And I love how one article represents a whole nation.
Omg, isn't North Korea exists just because of China support? It speaks volumes about how terrible treatment they suffered from Japan to compare to China.
so many china ass lickers here, typical reddit
Yes, there's bad blood between South Korea, Japan and China because of wars etc. But the main reason for the hate, on all sides, is because it's politically expedient for politicians to drum up support through nationalism. It's heavily supported by the Chinese government as a vehicle for propaganda and keeping the country united. You have these frankly disgusting "nationalism clubs" or whatever in South Korean schools that to me honestly look like almost worse than Chinese propaganda, and in Japan, the right is doing a good job making sure the population is only vaguely familiar with the country's colonial history. People hate each other because they are fed misinformation and because politicians has an incentive to make them hate each other. It's quite tragic, really.
What exactly are you referring to by "nationalism clubs"? I'm Korean and I am not aware of such a thing.
> 1910. Japan attack Korea.
~ Mr. Kim
Well this sentiment didn't develop just overnight, it was steadily growing for years until it just became too big to be unnoticed.
The most significant growth for anti China sentiment recently would have been the THAAD incident. After North Korea developed nuclear weapons THAAD(Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) was introduced into Korea to thwart it, or at least have a early warning against it. However China saw this as an attempt to spy on them as the THAAD radars were powerful enough to detect beyond just North Korea. As a retaliation to this threat the Chinese government ordered bans on Korean entertainment and any commercials containing Korean celebrities. This also led to an unofficial boycott on Korean products and companies in China and the number of tourists that went to Korea shrank greatly. This made a significant dent in the Korean economy and there were many small incidents of anti Korean sentiment being expressed by the mainland Chinese people. To the Koreans North Korea only existed to this day because of China's help and to be furious at an attempt to protect against it was just infuriating.
After this incident the anti Chinese sentiment was firmly rooted in the hearts of many Koreans and only started to grow as China tried to extend it's political power and influence. Other noticeable incidents would be:
\- The continued assault by illegal Chinese fishers on the Korean coast guards that would sporadically show up on the news until 2020
\- Chinese immigrants in Korea committing crimes
\- The Hong Kong protest which had many Chinese individuals that worked in Korean entertainment show their support for the police force
\- The Corona virus
\- Increasingly claim that all Korean culture belongs to China in Chinese games and social media
\- Protest against kpop group BTS for thanking American soldiers for helping in the Korean war and not mentioning the Chinese soldiers when they were the enemies helping North Korea against the South
I will not say that these incidents justify being racist against another country and the people but the increase in China's global power and the way they assert it irked a lot of Koreans not only as Korea was allied to America but also because it became a threat to their national security. Also these kinds of hate isn't one sided as anti Korean sentiment has also grown a lot in China. Chinese people have historically looked down on Korea as a little brother and seeing Korea in some ways become more developed and accepted globally have made them angry. These kinds of resentment and anger at each other have been passed around to each side by social media and have only fanned the flames of hatred.
I do hope for a more peaceful relationship among all the Asian countries but the complicated political situations make it hard to be.
I was going to comment something similar to this, but yours cover everything that has been on Koreans’ minds lately. I was surprised and disappointed to see how the top comments that tried to explain were grossly inaccurate and do not align at all with what’s being discussed in Korean media and online communities.
Really appreciate your post. Quite a few comments are just "haha China bad" but I felt like, with most things, there was more to the story.