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EU plans to legislate for common phone charger despite Apple grumbles

EU plans to legislate for common phone charger despite Apple grumbles

Jerrelh

Usb-c is very nice.


ObscureD_Lee

I agree. It’s more sustainable for society to do this. However, apple can remove the charging port all together.


TheOppositeOfDecent

Single charge phones! Just buy a new iphone when your battery runs out. They'll sell so many more!


PuzzledSwitch

there are already single-use powerbanks and that is horrible enough. edit: for all people flooding my inbox - i know what a battery is. it comes in a standard form factor for AA for AAA (sometimes AAAA). this is about a powerbank. it comes with a usb port and is designed to be disposable - unlike a typical powerbank. like a standard single use battery. but the actual battery part in this device inside is REACHARGEABLE. it just lacks the circuitry. for some weird reason someone thought it was a good idea to take rechargeable battery and turn it into non-rechargeable powerbank. ponder this for a moment. standard batteries cannot be recharged.


Pyrocitor

Those things make me so mad Most of the ones I've seen taken apart are using regular rechargable power bank chips inside them, just with no port soldered to the input side. (Edit: I wrote this before the comment above added it and explained it better)


PuzzledSwitch

the worst thing is that the waste disposal of those is not trivial. which is why i buy rechargeable batteries for my remotes/clocks/etc - they can survive dozens, maybe hundreds of charge cycles. less waste this way.


Swayden

Thank you for your service like-minded fellow.


boxx12

Why wouldn't you buy rechargeable batteries. I hate to buy batteries they're so expensive. Rechargeables are cheaper in the long run either way


Swayden

You’d be surprised to know how many people don’t even know that you can recharge batteries.


Jimi_Hotsauce

Seriously?? I remember having rechargeable batteries as a kid in the early 2000s. And even then they were old when I found them.


PurpleK00lA1d

Really? I had two pairs of rechargeables for my Gameboy Colour back in the 90s.


ideleteoften

They have a higher up front cost, especially when you have to buy chargers, and a lot of people just want their tv remote or keyfob or whatever to work again so they grab the cheapest cell off the shelf without considering the long term consequences. Speaking of keyfobs, rechargable CR2025s are a godsend.


kodipaws

I had some device in the past too where the lower voltage on rechargeables wasn't sufficient. I think it was the rumble pack on an old N64 controller, so probably pretty niche, but still, it can happen


InternetUser007

I use rechargables for most things, but some devices need non rechargables in order to last longer, like my wall clock. Otherwise I am swapping batteries 3X as often.


NextTrillion

Consider Eneloop batteries. I’ve got some from 2006 still going strong. I can’t even kill them. I travel for most of the year (before the COBIDS) and even when in storage after six months, they don’t seem to drain past 1.3V. They hold a charge for well over 6 months too, but usually at that point I fully discharge and recharge them. Check the battery chemistry because I believe Amazon and IKEA sell similar chemistry batteries as well. But the Eneloops so far have been an incredible investment.


dennis1312

Be aware that Eneloop batteries (and all other Ni-MN batteries) have significantly lower voltages than conventional alkaline batteries. Eneloop AA batteries are 1.2 V; alkaline AA batteries are 1.5 V. Most devices tolerate Eneloop batteries just fine, but I've not been able to use the Eneloop batteries in wireless Xbox controllers. I'd check product specifications very carefully before using Eneloops in highly-sensitive or expensive electronics.


f00tballm0dsTRASH

I've been using eneloops in my xbox controllers for 7 years with not a single issue.


Echohawkdown

That’s true of most rechargeable batteries though. Something about the battery chemistry means that they’ll only ever output 1.2-1.3V max for their entire lifetime, whereas alkaline, single-use batteries will output 1.5V when fresh. There’s rechargeable lithium batteries which can output something like 3.7-4.2V max, but they usually have internal circuitry to step down the voltage to 1.5V.


chiefnoah

My XBone wireless controller works fine with Eneloop batteries...


korben2600

A youtuber named EEVblog briefly talks about Eneloop's 99% efficiency in [this vid](https://youtu.be/4iEshd6izgk?t=728). Definitely seems like the superior brand of rechargeable batteries. Somehow stumbled on that vid right after I read your comment so just thought I'd share.


mechwarrior719

Seriously? How is that even legal? It’s not like alkaline batteries (the most common single use battery, which I imagine a single use power bank would use) are exactly environmentally friendly. Proper disposal isn’t always easy or convenient, either, so most people just chuck spent batteries in the trash.


746865626c617a

Worse, they use rechargeable lithium batteries


mechwarrior719

*Confused Tool Time grunting* That IS worse.


PuzzledSwitch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5korWqCcsHE no idea, but i've seen those in Austria as well.


AgentOrange96

Me: It's gonna be Big Clive, isn't it? *Clicks link and sees what's clearly not Big Clive's desk* Oh, I guess it's not Big Clive *Clicks play and hears Big Clive's voice* Oh, I guess it *is* Big Clive


kerrangutan

Non-standard Big Clive bench = (usually) somewhere in Edinburgh while he's working at the Tattoo


-SaC

Big Clive's voice is like a nice cuddle.


theferrit32

That should be illegal


ashleyriddell61

Don’t give them ideas.


JohnSith

Yes, but you get a free year of Apple TV with a new iPhone! That's roughly 365 years of Apple TV a year!


Strange_Temperature

Wireless charging requires nearly 50% more power. On an individual level that only amounts to 5 watt-hours or so wasted per charge but when you multiply that by 3 billion smartphone users and assume on average people charge fully every other day (which is a really conservative estimate), that's 0.75gWh of power wasted every day, enough to power ~~750,000~~ 75,000 average UK households. All for the sake of not using USB-C instead of Lightning.


blue60007

Your math is off by a factor of 10 (assuming average UK household is using 10 kwh / day), 75,000 homes. https://www.google.com/search?q=0.75+gwh+%2F+10+kwh That works out to about 0.001% of the daily production of electricity. Not going to disagree it's wasteful but hardly a drop in the bucket. EDIT: fix my own math errors


CraigJDuffy

I swear if they remove the only port they have and then tout their amazing pro res raw cameras. Yes, let’s just transfer 1TB of video over WiFi if only there was something that would be shaped like a USB C port and carry 40 gigabits per second. Maybe something they have on the iPad. Idk.


kornbread435

Wireless chargers are too slow, energy intensive, and worst of all requires most cases to be removed to work. It's not exactly a solution.


barjam

I use have used exclusively wireless charging for years now and have never had to remove a case.


tyler1128

Now I have visions of a nfc validating induction charger that only charges certain devices.


jedi-son

The fact that we have to pass laws for Apple to switch iPhone to USB C even though virtually all of their other products already use it is exactly why I hate Apple.


PazDak

Would it make you more angry that apple helped fund the standard too?


alelo

not just fund, they begged the USB forum for a new standard, and when they couldnt drag their ass and deliver, apple created lightning, which then woke the forum up how and after years of revisions, changed, etc they came up with usb-c


Ambitious_Engineer12

Lightening is essentially two USB2.0 cables in one to get more bandwidth, but only one 5v source (5w). USB-C is two USB cables in one, but also includes a 3rd channel for USB2.0 and a 4th channel for special functions, and two power sources that can handle up to 100w.


Arlithian

Now watch as they design a USB-C port that has a weird angle such that it can only accept an official iUsb-C charger for the low price of 149.99


TypicalPakeha

I expect the legislation that the EU are discussing will have specific clauses about compatibility. I doubt they'd get away with that


Arlithian

As someone else mentioned - they got around the micro-usb by adding a dongle - I wouldn't put it past them to find another loophole they can exploit to continue making money off of proprietary parts. This is one of the main companys trying to kill right to repair laws after all.


pinkfloydfan69

They will make some stupid tiny ass adapter for your plug so you can plug a usb-c into it and hope you lose the little adapter so you can buy a new one for $59.99


putsch80

I assume there is an international standard describing all important aspects of the form-factor of USB-C. It could likely just be adopted that way and then anything not meeting the standard is obviously non-compliant with the law too.


NostalgicFrolicking

That's actually pretty possible since they got around the micro USB mandates too... Buy just adding an adapter and causing more e.waste... these laws aren't really made really well. Not against it entirely, but if you can just side step it then what's the point of even wasting time to create the law to begin with.


someguy3

I can't believe they accepted "use an adaptor" to meet a standard port.


FauxReal

It is, though as an Android user, I think the lightning port is smaller and a bit more robust. Then again, as far as durability goes, I don't use an iOS device every day. Would be nice if Apple let you everyone use its port, but the EU would likely legislate USB-C cause of sheer numbers out there.


nudelsalat3000

There is much more behind it. - One thing is the universal USB-C requirement. They asked for years that the industry has to find one harmonised solution, whichever they want. They failed, mainly because Apple played some games with the legal definition what a "cable" is. - EU want starting from 2023 function updates mandatory for 5 years (tablets 6years) to be delivered within 3 months or earlier if annother phone gets the update first. - Batteries must be having 80% capacity after 500 cycles. Tables have something with 1000cyles because they live longer on average. So far only apples batteries keep up the first point, which will start a race. The battery must be exchangeable within some defined technical and cost parameters. - Repair parts must be accessible by all professional repair stores. This includes batteries, screens, microfones, cameras, connectors and some more. Also the price must be communicated at the release of the phone and is not allowed to increase afterwards. - Screens must further be accessible also for retail buyers. - Repair manuals must be available non-discrimatory to buy at a reasonable price. - The phone must withstand 100 drops from 1m without damage. - The label must state the dirt and waterproofness certification (minimum is IPx4 so save water droplets as it often "kills" the warranty), the electric efficiency (which saves indirectly battery life), the battery life if above the minimum requirements, the average battery time, drop survival classification and some more details. Companies request some more years of "laisse faire" politics to let it run without changing the system... ...however the European commission has used the recommendations from the Frauenhofer Institute (the guys from the MP3 audio standard) and went even further with some implementation details. As this will only apply to Europe but can make use the Brussel effect (nobody builts two phone versions) it will apply worldwide. Hopefully it will become a right to repair framework like the GDPR stronghold for data protection and ownership. Expect dense "marketing" from companies that it's unnecessary, too strict, too complicated, innefficient, hurts their business and so on... Just like the "warning" for GDPR that now you need to click away all day long cookie banners (which likely also are illegal disturbance already today - legal process running) and that everything is useless and we can just trust the companies.


HippieMcGee

Can you recommend a source? I'd like to share this.


nudelsalat3000

This is a German technical news source going into detail, best I found so far with the pictures of the future label https://www.heise.de/news/Bundesregierung-Smartphones-sollen-sieben-Jahre-lang-Updates-erhalten-6179995.html Otherwise one would have to go into detail of the law-draft This was the pre-study why they came up with exactly this requirements from the Frauenhofer IZM founded by the Europe Commission (English). The already since 1st January existing French repair index (indice de réparabilité) was considered. https://www.ecosmartphones.info/documents/ This is the precedent for many other electronic devices, like fridges, ovens, televisions in act since 1st March 2021 (yet to be implemented by the countries of EU, obviously now without Great Britain) https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/eu-right-repair-technology-decade-b1809408.html


grivo12

This guy Europes


ashtarout

Thanks for the links!


wadewad

>The phone must withstand 100 drops from 1m without damage. Damn, they're not fucking around.


April_Adventurer

As a product designer this makes me cry


Kile147

This is one of those cases where I feel that they have gone a bit far. I'd prefer if they instead just created a standardized durability framework that the phones have to be classified in, that way we could decide how durable we want the phones and make informed decisions.


_zachamahawk

> Repair manuals must be available non-discrimatory to buy at a reasonable price. > > This is all fantastic.


Systemic2021

Until Apple decides that the manuals are worth 40k due to 'R&D' in designing the phone rofl jokes


keep_me_at_0_karma

> Just like the "warning" for GDPR that now you need to click away all day long cookie banners (which likely also are illegal disturbance already today - legal process running Are you saying those are not a GDPR requirement but manufactured to make me *think* it is so I get annoyed at GDPR?


nudelsalat3000

Pretty much. The law says they must check for automated ways. The "do not track" setting that is on by default is already a "technical implementation" like the law references. They are forced to make a "reasonable effort" to figure out if you have any automatisms / "technical implementatione" in place to define your "free choice". All special law words used here to cover everything. GDPR is a stronghold for citizens. Furthermore the tricks to make you accept the BIG button are also likely illegal. "Default off" of all settings (hence opt-in) is also mandatory already. Furthermore the information pop up cannot obstruct the use of the homepage. They always do. The guy (Max Schrems) that fighed the "Europe Vs Facebook" where Irland tried to help the tax dodgers and the illegal Privacy Shield agreement, is on it with his company NOYB (none of your business). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems Fingers crossed we get rid of the illegal data extractors.


Biobot775

They're a requirement if the website uses cookies. What is not a requirement is that the banner make the website non-functional, or that the company use cookies to begin with. Websites giving the options of "accept all cookies or fuck off" is on them, not GDPR.


Agglomeratie

Accept all cookies or fuck off is actually illegal as per GDPR


happyseizure

I've been noticing the standard now is 'we use cookies, click this bright button to accept ALL cookies and make this popup go away, or manage your preferences another level deep' After clicking through to manage preferences, you make your changes then the design has big bright button that looks like you're saving your preferences, but actually says 'accept all cookies' , meanwhile the subtle link below that button says 'save my preferences'. These dark patterns are insidious AF.


HetRadicaleBoven

Yes, GDPR mandates consent be freely given (i.e. service cannot be refused if you don't give it), informed (i.e. you have to know what you're agreeing to rather than just clicking something to make the popup go away) and opt-in (i.e. if you do nothing, it's not implied). Of course, this is only for tracking that is not needed for providing the service. If you only have e.g. cookies to track whether you're logged in, no need for a banner.


mordecai14

"nobody builds two phone versions" Tell that to Samsung, who builds two versions of their flagships every year. I know a different chip is probably easier to do than a different port, but the point stands. EDIT: There seems to be done confusion over what I mean. Search "Exynos vs Snapdragon" and you'll understand what I mean.


Shiroi_Kage

This is all awesome. Power to the EU to implement. Rossmann will be happy.


missinginput

Good these companies make billions and won't make better products without being forced


anethma

That all sounds good but one is pretty crazy: > • The phone must withstand 100 drops from 1m without damage. Onto what surface? That sounds insane haha. If it’s onto concrete that’s a hell of a beating. It must take this without damage ? If it’s onto hardwood I could see. But onto concrete or gravel I could see that being pretty damn tough to do and still make a phone anyone would want to use.


nudelsalat3000

Everything is linked to industrial standards and normations. The results are then visible on the consumer label in a simple way from the letters A to D. In this case it's IEC 60068-2-31 IEC 60068-2-31:2008 Environmental testing - Part 2-31: Tests - Test Ec: Rough handling shocks, primarily for equipment-type specimens *IEC 60068-2-31:2008 deals with a test procedure for simulating the effects of rough handling shocks, primarily in equipment-type specimens, the effects of knocks, jolts and falls which may be received during repair work or rough handling in operational use. This procedure does not simulate the effects of impacts received during transportation as loosely constrained cargo. *


Helmic

Honestly, concrete would be good. The normalization that phones should be extremely fragile and thus need replacing every other year *has* to end, the massive amount of waste that causes is accelerating global warming. Phones that don't need a special external case to not break under normal use should be normalized.


Benandhispets

I don't think phone screens smashing when dropped on concrete is just the manufacturers being cheap, it's more of a physically not possible currently type of thing im pretty sure. So asking for all manufactuers to make thin bits of glass smash proof when hit against concrete is a bit of an extreme ruling. If it was possible I'm sure it would be done by now considering manufactuers like to advertise when they're using the latest version of guerilla glass. I guess making the glass 3x as thick or something will help a lot but still no guarentee, it's still glass afterall.


Bananus_Magnus

Guerilla Glass... is this some distant relative of Gorilla Warfare?


visvis

> EU want starting from 2023 function updates mandatory for 5 years (tablets 6years) What is the legal difference between a phone and a tablet? Nowadays, isn't it essentially the same type of device? Will they just have some cutoff for the screen size?


ImJustPassinBy

This is technically EU only, but I think it will also affect people outside the EU since I can't see Apple creating a separate model just for the EU.


munkshroom

There is a word for it which i sadly dont remember. In the US, California often has stricter standards for emissions and such, but its easier for companies to just comply with california standards than making two different standards.


Traversar

[Brussels effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect)


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Wind_Yer_Neck_In

It's also why the European white goods (washing machines, dryers etc) tend to have massive warranty periods now, because they have to meet a lot of very strict standards about product life and repairs/parts support.


NerdMachine

Sign me up for one of these after my crappy samsung finally dies for good.


munkshroom

Yes, i was thinking of California effect, but its effectively the same thing as the brussels effect.


frankev

There's a similar idea embodied in the phrase "curb cut effect": [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_cut_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_cut_effect) While curb cuts were historically meant to mainly help disabled individuals, they ended up benefitting everyone.


AL_O0

But then there’s Tesla with their proprietary charge connector that they still use in america despite them using the standardized one in Europe


sirpoley

North American and European cars are pretty much totally different anyway. They have completely different regulations that they follow. If you just look at a Honda in France and one in Oregon, they're wildly different shapes. I don't think the Brussels Effect really applies to cars to the same degree as phones and other things


tellymundo

The biggest thing I never realized is that indicators and head/tail lights are different and regulated differently!! I wish everyone had to have orange indicators (EU standard), having your turn signal the same color as the brakelight is dangerous and hard to read sometimes.


OldDogTry

Thanks, technology connections


bacononwaffles

*smooth jazz noises*


yellowbloodil

wait, US turn signals are red?!


waterboysh

Worse... a lot of cars the brake light and turn signal is actually the same.


iamdorkette

Not always, depends on the car. Some models just use the same brake light and make it flash instead of being steady like when you're stepping on the brake.


Happy_Diabetic

Wait, does this mean if someone is rolling with their hazard lights on, you could not tell if they are breaking? Or is there a separate solution for the hazard lights?


w1n5t0nM1k3y

See [this video](https://youtu.be/O1lZ9n2bxWA) for some information on this topic.


Happy_Diabetic

Thanks for the link, was really interesting and entertaining to me. This sort of form over function in case of safety seems pretty reckless to be honest. But as the creator mentioned it would be interesting to see some numbers on rear end accidents to be sure


9035768555

Braking takes precedence, it stops blinking and stays on while braking.


Dr4kin

That means if someone is breaking and wants to turn after you only see it if he stops breaking? That's horrendous


Happy_Diabetic

OK, so something like you do on German highways when coming up to (almost) standing traffic as in putting your hazard lights on whilst breaking to signal "I am not just slowing down but we all will have to break hard" is not a thing then in countries with this system? Interesting, never knew there were still such differences as I mostly see older american cars in Europe I assumed those were a thing of the past


xqnine

They can be red. They can also be amber like the EU. Of all the things they have changed recently in the rules I am not sure why this one has hung on so long.


greenie4242

When I was growing up, ALL cars sold in Australia always had amber turn signal indicators that had to be at least a set minimum size and within a certain distance from the main headlights and brake lights. This meant some extremely popular car models were illegal to import. For some idiotic reason, recently those laws were ditched and now all new cars sold here have turn signals with clear lenses, there's no minimum size, and they can be mounted anywhere on the vehicle. Now instead of looking for a large yellow lens that was always next to the main light cluster, we have to scan every panel of every car to guess which part might possibly be flashing a pissweak yellow 1cm square LED through a clear lens that doesn't block ambient light such as the fucking sun. Some of them are mounted inside grills under the fog lights, making them impossible to see because they are lower than some built-up roundabouts. Others are mounted in deep channels so they only have a 30° field of view due to parallax and LED design. The world is going mad.


SoulOfTheDragon

You seriously have red turn signals legal in USA? Wow...


Maxpowr9

Even on Audis.


deepuw

I think it may apply, just not in the same scale. Do not forget there is much more than North America and Europe in this world. If European stricter laws mean that you have quasi-european spec cars running in Latin America, that's a huge chunk of the market that's affected. Though I have to say, if you grab, let's say, a Fiat or a Renault car model in Latin America and compare it with the same model in Europe, it will probably be heavily de-spec'ed, specially when it comes to safety equipment, so I guess it applies more to aspects of a vehicle that are not just bolt-on.


gurgle528

It's arguably much easier to change the charging port on a car than a phone


refriedi

You’d have to switch over the whole supercharging network, and then all the cars. I imagine the number of Europeans or Americans moving their cars between continents is pretty low.


sebas85

Tesla retrofitted existing super chargers with CCS cables just fine. If they can do that in Europe they can do it in the US.


TommenBrady

Americans will always find a reason things are different there


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CanadianJesus

It's not the country that's too big, it's the people that are too big.


tacocatacocattacocat

It's not the people that are too big, it's the health care industry campaign donations and lobbying budgets that are too big


Wind_Yer_Neck_In

We can't possibly add sales taxes to product labels! Think of all the work that would need to go into that!! Ah yes, the work of amending a field in your stock tracking software.


hackingdreams

On the other hand, car manufacturers also build "[compliance models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_car)" of cars that are strictly available in certain markets *just* to meet fleet MPG requirements. It boils down to "what's cheaper." For Apple, building an EU-SKU wouldn't be that big of a disruption.


goldcakes

They already create a separate model for Japan, and a dual SIM model for China.


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Rethliopuks

It's common to separate work/life. Less convenient to have to carry two phones. Some people also use two cards to minimize the cost, as carriers offer specialized phone/data plans.


dustvecx

Something to do with cellplan providers. Like US local companies offer cheaper plans and there are a lot of seasonal workers in china.


deepuw

Yup. This is the same reason why as an American software engineer I need to work on our company being GDPR compliant. I must say, I do not dislike European progressiveness pushing American companies in ways our own government doesn't.


Hifen

They make *so* much money off accessories like chargers, Apple will 100% make different models. The US market alone will make it worth it to them.


Conquestadore

How come people still buy proprietary lightning cables? They can be had off-brand for a couple of euro as a usb-c-connector thingy.


Hifen

Apple makes most of the money through licenses to use the design more-so then individual cable sales.


shreken

Can they just include an adaptor?


leto78

As LTT said, the new ipad mini is the best and cheapest iPhone there is: 5G, 8" display, USB-C, A15


PositivelyAcademical

Wait… They put USB-C on the new iPad mini but not on the new iPad? Facepalm.


Adamexxx

the newer iPads (Air at least) come with usb c to usb c cables for charging. It's only the iPhones that for some stupid reason still use lightning.


happyscrappy

Every iPad except the base model now uses USB-C. And phones. It's annoying. I like Lightning, it's a good connector. But everything else uses USB-C now. I'm ready to be all USB-C.


PositivelyAcademical

The newest one (pre-order for this Friday) is advertised with Lightning: [https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-10.2/specs/](https://www.apple.com/uk/ipad-10.2/specs/)


TacticalTable

That's the low end ipad which is basically intended for schools. The moment they change connectors, schools need to change significant amounts of hardware to support them. That also means they have a chance to switch to chromebooks.


LotharVonPittinsberg

I work tech support in schools. That's the reasoning Apple uses, nobody who knows tech in schools agrees with them. USB-C made my life so much easier for adapters. You can get pretty much anything you want at a decent price and it will work without any confusion. Laptops and Chromebooks have all used USB-C for years now, so we are well adjusted. Apple just uses it as a reason to sell more of their own adapters. Want to connect your iPad to this projector? Buy our $60 lighting to HDMI Adaptor.


TacticalTable

Interesting, the school I was working for several years back (and this has probably changed now that USB-C is relevant) had ipads for everyone, but literally all of the adapters were bought in 2015 from a grant. So until there's another grant to get USB C everything, the cheapest move was to stick to lightning everything and just incrementally replace when necessary.


klparrot

The iPad mini was a redesign this year; the iPad was just an upgrade.


sm0lshit

Why are iPad so much cheaper than iPhones anyway?


andtheniansaid

people tend to buy phones on contracts so are willing to stomach a higher price over the length of that contract than they would if they were paying it all upfront, as they are more likely to do with a tablet


German_Irish_chicken

Iphone SE(2) $399. Iphone 13 Mini $799 Iphone 12 mini $599? Also people dont need to buy the newest just get the best one from the previous year.


InfiniteExperience

Apple: Fine, iPhone 15 no ports, wireless charging only.


axck

Is this a joke? Because this is absolutely what they are trying to do.


balista_22

The law requires the phone to be charged by usb-c, so they'll have to add a port to the EU version


Weed_racer

Usb-c please. I hate the Apple cable so much.


MSevenzer

My tablet is my ONLY Apple product. Lost my lightning cable recently... Waiting for new one to come in, bloody expensive for a cable too. Meanwhile I have like 50 MicroUSB cables and over 20 USB-C cables just laying around. But noooo, need this one specific cable for this one specific product.. PITA.


Bananaeater45

How the fuck do you have that many cables? I have 3 or 4 in total while having 5 devices for them. Are you buying new phones every month or what?


MSevenzer

Pretty much everything I buy comes with a cable. MicroUSB been around for years, I have over a decade+ of cables laying around. And now everything comes with USBC. My personal laptop is USBC, my work laptop is USBC, the third party universal charger I bought came with a cable, my portable battery has a cable, my other portable battery for car boosting emergencies (if you don't live in cold climate you don't know LOL) has a few cables for devices, last 2 phones (LG G6 and LG Velvet) had cables, portable SSD came with a cable, bought a few extra long cables from Amazon, and just other random ones laying around.


[deleted]

I'm impressed you can say where they all came from. My best guess for my micro-USB cables is that they are breeding. They're like the ivy of the cable world - I have to untangle at least one from whatever cable I need.


home_steddin

If he's like me at all that is only the ones he remembers. I have them in different form factors because I started optimizing for travel before the pandemic. I get these ones popping up in random places. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078N31K8L/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_5H4210W391J87FGHV4CS They are cute until you need to actually plug into a printer and print something.


FluffySpike

> I started optimizing for travel before the pandemic Ahh, the before times, how I missed them, the time where the land was lively, the streets were busy, people were just, living, the path ahead looked so exciting and colorful, oh what a deceit that was. now, the once friendly land turned dangerous and barren, every journey can be our last, our shelter, made of house, our supplies, need to be scavenged, this loop has gone for what feels like eternity, it started taking over how we see our lives, every day, I fear that I may forget the before times, that I may lose hope in defeating tACCINE his Crisis of Oblivion. Chaotic agents, seeping among us, slowing us down, dragging us back to the darkness, trying to 0wn us, by 0wning themselves, our protective helmet, demonized, our efforts to combat this, to give hope, to rebuild the before times, is being downplayed by a mythical beast, hell bent on keeping us out of the paradise we took for granted, sentient beings turned willing peons, our most valiant warriors, mages and blacksmiths, have given us the tools to fight, some joined their ranks to ensure we reclaim paradise lost, others resisted on false grounds, delaying and sabotaging all. I yearn for the day of our glory, the only way is through unification, that's the only way. TL.DR : GET THE FUCKING VACCINE YOU DICKWEEDS, LISTEN TO THE HEALTH EXPERTS, BE NICE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HELPING YOU. I'M TIRED OF THIS COVID SHIT. ^(if you already got the vaccine or are planning to take it as soon as you can/are eligible and following health guidelines, have a cookie, I love you :3, cool person.)


BoltgunOnHisHip

USB cables have several magical properties. First of course is the well known quantum principle that whichever way you attempt to insert it into the computer will, of course, be the wrong one. And so will the second attempt when you flip it over. Only on the third attempt will the first orientation somehow prove to be the correct one. Thankfully USB-C has removed this issue. The second is that USB cables reproduce while you are asleep. However, the same quantum principle applies and this process will destroy the USB cables you need and replace them with USB cables which aren't used by any product you own.


SeskaWildman

The only Android devices I have are my Nvidia Shields and Firesticks. But somehow I definitely have like 30 micro USB chargers. They come with everything. From my video doorbell to kids toys and LED lights.


Dryver-NC

Doesn't matter how many I have I'm always one short


Kufat

It's amazing how many network cables I can find when I'm looking for a USB cable. But when I need a network cable...


disposable-name

The Cable Gods are the most capricious deities ever. For example: the longer the cable, the shorter it is.


Whiffenius

Another rule: the only cable you have to bridge a distance of 0.5M is always 6M long


BobbyP27

Almost all of the Apple tablet line is USB-C. The only one left with the lightning connector is the low end product, which is the last model to retain the older case design, and it is likely once it is retired, the tablet lineup will be entirely USB-C


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im_probablyjoking

In the UK I can buy a 2 metre lightning cable in my local shop for about £4. Well I could before the supply chain went to shit.


benderbender42

To be fair micro usb sucks balls though, every phone I've ever had with microusb has had major issues with the port. usb-c should be better but don't have any usb-c devices. Never had a problem with a lightning port. Also doesn't new apple iPads have usb-c anyway ? And apples pushing their combined usb-c + thunderbolt ports in their macs? so what are they complaining about ??


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benderbender42

Exactly, That's what my entire experience on micro usb was like, slowly failing, only charges on one angle, then completely fails. New phone, repeat. I'm so glad to be away from that now and never going back


maikelg

Apple is not against USB-C. Newer iPad models already have [USB-C ports](https://support.apple.com/guide/ipad/models-with-a-usb-c-connector-ipad2add3159/ipados).


velvet_smooth

They just need a reason to move quicker. Latest iPhone does not and its sales make iPad sales look small.


Poor_Bezos

just ... don’t let apple make the cable. it’s probably better for the environment if they don’t even give away those crappy disintegrating cables they make.


Mister_Brevity

The cables are built to be sacrificial so the collar breaks away before stressing the port to the point of breaking, to avoid things like the center tab from micro usb and usbc breaking off.


klparrot

I think the issue with Apple cables is the cable sheath degrading. Haven't had it so much with Lightning cables, but with old MagSafe charging cables for Mac, all the damn time.


Mister_Brevity

Yeah that’s the soft touch rubber coating. There are actually apple support articles and instructions for how tightly to wind cables and if you stick to those religiously the cables last a lot longer but the strain relief eventually splits. If they ditched the soft touch coating the cables would last longer but I kinda appreciate how a MagSafe soft touch cable won’t slide across a desk and fall behind because of the friction with the desktop.


meateatr

That makes a lot of sense, but lightning doesn't have a center tab, so why is the cable still sacrificial like that?


JFedererJ

Literally though Apple are being so weird. In 2016, they ripped all the ports off the MacBook Pro range and put 4 thunderbolt (USB-C interface) ports on there like, "yeah this is the future now". But their iPhones still haven't followed suit and some of their tablets use USB-C but some don't. I agree with you 100%. It *better* be USB-C.


Para-Tabs

Apple is 100% gonna go for wireless chargers only if it passes.


DotkasFlughoernchen

This "we want to standardize phone charging"-thing has been going on [since 2009](https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/red-directive/common-charger_en). In [2010](https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html) a standard based on micro-USB was actually implemented (not legally, but by the awesomely named "[CEN-CENELEC](https://www.cencenelec.eu/), rolls right off the tongue).


nolok

They sat companies at the table and told them "do it or we force you to do it with a law". They did, and then Apple stopped, so others said either Apple comes back to the deal, or we leave too, and Apple refused, so law.


northyj0e

When did apple use USB?


jangxx

They sold a micro-USB to Lightning adapter, which was apparently good enough in the eyes of the law.


Mazon_Del

Yup, but the new iteration of this has (at least in earlier drafts) specifically outlined adapters as not being a form of compliance.


Catnapwat

They worked around it by having a USB port on their chargers, which you plug the proprietary cable into.


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NeedsMoreSpaceships

Also gives them an excuse to charge a stupid amount of money for a required accessory, which is right up Apple's street.


alxthm

Standard Qi charging works fine on iPhones, you have the choice to buy an Apple branded charger or not.


dontknow16775

Is it possibel to use a Phone while it loads Wireless?


IvorTheEngine

Do wireless chargers work across brands, or do apple make their own?


xQx1

They work across brands, and Apple make their own.


sbdw0c

Apple uses standard Qi-charging just like everyone else, MagSafe is just an accessory system that also happens to help align the coils when wirelessly charging.


TheGrandOldGent

Coming from a European, it would be nice if America tried to look after the consumer too.


InvestigatorFeisty71

Our government can’t do shit because literally every little thing will be blown out of proportion as some assault on our freedom. USB-C mandates would be turned into some conspiracy about democrats trying to dismantle the free market and turn us into communist China where they can control business’ every move. The worst part is that that’s not even a joke. Literally the average American’s best hope is that the EU does something.


_Fred_Austere_

No ObamaCord!


dontknow16775

And than the EU gets all the blame


ilski

Yeh we can have all the blame for good changes.


ARWYK

All the merit you mean


Gaping_Lasagna

not going to be able to charge and use my phone at the same times is pretty trash tho


UnusualDisturbance

on one hand, standardized cables are great for getting rid of clutter when it comes to the amount of cables you gotta have lying around. on the other hand, usb-c is an improvement over micro usb in that it can be inserted upside down too. it got popular because it's just better. if there comes another cable that is an improvement to usb-c, would that have to be brought before some kind of commitee to have it be appraised or something?


Slipguard

Yes. USB C also went before many committed before it was released. It was designed by a committee as well. Committees are the best way to determine industry standards.


alkonaut

Isn’t that still for the charger (so the wall side) only. So like that all wall bricks would have to have usb-c. In that case apple is already prepared as iPhones come with a lightning to usb-c cable and no charger.


ImJustPassinBy

Good point, I think the article is ambiguous on that. It does mention > The Commission wants the sale of chargers to be decoupled from devices, and also propose a harmonised charging port, the person said. > Apple, whose iPhones are charged from its Lightning cable, has said rules forcing connectors to conform to one type could deter innovation, create a mountain of electronic waste and irk consumers. and based on Apple's objection I do think the EU is targeting the port on the phone.


BTallack

I get that to a point. The wheels of government are slow. What happens when USB-Cs replacement emerges? Will phone manufacturers be forced to use an old standard because the laws are outdated? Will we still be required to use USB-C 15 years from now?


Kittykatkvnt

Dunno bout apple grumbles but apple crumbles are tasty


OntarioIsPain

It annoys me so much that they still don't use USB-C


deepuw

Yet they do on their laptops. Their moves are 100% calculated on squeezing the last buck out of you.


sunflowerastronaut

What is so different about EU politicians that they don’t give in to corporate lobbying like US politicians?


munchlax1

Because political contributions, whether they are personal or corporate, are heavily scrutinized. And bribery is actually punished.


TravelerMetric

Imagine if every electrical device, a toaster, TV, or lamp had its own very special different plug. That's where Apple wants to be. No.


mielove

Apple can grumble all they want. I enjoy Apple products, but the EU is definitely in the right here.


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veridiantye

Probably the cost of transition for ecosystem as they say. They implemented Lightning in the first place because USB 3 standrad at the time wasn't ready yet and they wanted to switch from their old connector. If they were really married to Lightning port idea, they wouldn't implement USB-C on iPads.


Thunder_gp

Apple just does not want to lose out on all the cable sales for their devices. Not to mention the unlimited number of adaptors. This should have been ducking done years ago.


xSilverMC

It was, apple just found a loophole that let them continue like before but also sell adaptors


haemhorrhoidian

Oh i love the EU, shame some idiots voted me out!


W02T

A different perspective: I’ve found Lightning ports to be more reliable and certainly easier to clean than USB-C ports. So, I’d certainly advocate USB-C for tablets like the iPad. But, ports that fill with lint in your pocket should be more reliable and easier to clean like the Lightning.


pixelastronaut

USB-C is absolutely more prone to breakage and lightning is a lot more durable.